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[MarkWarner]

The general consensus for last week's book, Monster #1, was that although it promised much, it was a bit of a "meh". This is a shame, as it has such a cool cover

Now it has been brought to my attention I have been VERY lax about comparison readings and

"How about a compare a Charlton Billy the Kid with a Toby Billy the Kid?"

Always eager to oblige (especially when half the work has been done for me) here are this week's books:

The Toby - "Billy the Kid Adventure Magazine #1" https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=40839 (Oct 1950)

and

The Charlton  - "Billy the Kid #63" https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=12615 (Oct 1967)

I decided to go early and late, but the last Charlton book we have has a c2c story, so I chose the one before.

The comparison stories respectively are: Two-Gun Promise (12 pages) and Too Pretty to Kill (8 pages).

Happy reading!!!

[73042helloworld]

Well guess I'll make a comment or two about these 3 (yes, I said 3) Billy the Kid series on this site.  I added the 2nd compilation of SUN to my list. All three series present Billy as a hero instead of what he really was.  The Kid killed his first man at the age of 12 and was killed himself before his 21st birthday.  None of the three books I checked showed anything more of the real kid other than his ability to shoot.  The Charlton didn't even show him intentionally killing as he did in real life.  The stories of all three were only fair and saved only by the art, the best of which was the Charlton.

It is evident that these could have been called almost any thing else and been as good or bad.  They were titled BILLY THE KID to sell comic and Sun even used a photo of actor Robert Taylor in the clothing he wore to play Bill and many of their opening pages.  Having made that comment, I must say that SUN had the more authentic artwork making it look more like the land and clothing of the times but making Will Bonney into a western Zorro and having him say HI-YO at the end like the LONE RANGER ruined all that.

Charlton had the overall good modern rendered artwork even if all their cowboy heroes could have been exchanged and nobody would have noticed.  Still, It was the most successful of the three.  All the Charlston heroes were either clones of KID COLT or masked copies from other companies.

That enough.  Some of you are going to disagree and think i"m nut,  but critics get that all the time.  I reserve the right to my opinion. After all, I've only been reading comic books and strips since 1947 or 1948 - I don't remember.

Don the Elder

[EHowie60]

Side note: calling the comics "The Toby" and "The Charlton" makes them sound like sandwiches, or dance crazes . Now for the books. *Puts on some Ennio Morricone*.

First, The Toby. Well he certainly looks like a kid, and of course he's forced into a life of crime! Every criminal to get a cover story in a 1950s comic was forced to a life of crime and trying to clear themselves. Mostly outlaws but also pirates. In the first story Dart forgot rule 2 of being a Wild West outlaw: if you take someone's gun, don't give it back! Maybe he was trying to be fair. If so, kinda crummy of his gang to get all ticked off about it. Also, no one saw this shooting, right? So why did Billy have to go on the run?

The Two-Gun Promise: oh wow he looks older now. And suddenly he doesn't like killings? Where was this "shoot the gun out of the hand" style in the first adventure? I like the art, generally. The backgrounds have a lot of work put into them, but the characters can sometimes seem stiffly posed, especially when drawn smaller. Funny how this story, like the one before, is also about Billy the Kid being branded an outlaw.

Facts about firearms: nice to see some research in this book.

Last story: A pretty good one. I'm always a fan of the double-cross plot.

The Charlton: ooh I like the cover. Much better than two random photographed cowboys.

Too Pretty to Kill: the female crook falls for the handsome hero! As always. And she saves his life, of course! Even though she was trying to kill him earlier on the same page! Art is nice, though the artist's use of silhouettes is a bit strange.

The Raiders: huh, I don't think I've ever seen a villain in a coonskin cap before. It's so associated with Davy Crockett. A nice piece of nonfiction, or close enough anyway.

The Lynchers: I understand Clete is the town's favorite, but Billy just winged the guy! Why are the townsfolk out for his blood? This story ends rather abruptly.

Day Without Courage: so they lock him into the room above the cellar where they let a Mexican fellow live? Strange. A decent story, though. I think I'm growing to like the silhouette style Delbo used here.

Overall, a pair of decent western comics, no relation to the real Billy the Kid, but that's par for the course for this sort of thing. The art is pretty comparable between the two, though the Charlton one feels like it has cleaner lines and a bit less detail in the faces. A couple of good reads.

[Morgus]

Liked the art in the first one better then number two...Charlton was it's usual minimal colour and lines..Always wondered if they ever thought to resort to using shadow puppets to save money...the Tom Gill art had more detail for me and I liked his work and better use of perspective...and wowzers, different lettering in the narratives, and some close ups tossed in for us kids rooted who would have been in front of the t.v. so it looks more like a black and white western on the tube. By the way, anybody else notice it the villain looked like Synder the Super from ONE DAY AT A TIME in the close ups? (For our British readers, that's a defunct sit com from American t.v. with this guy as a supporting actor who wore a tool belt and served as comic relief...)
The stories kept my interest all the way through which is pretty good for a western...of course they are forumla and just follow their own set rules...with probably next to nothing to do with the real west, but they did the job  at hand as well as you can expect.

[Captain Audio]

When William Bonney first got into the gunfighter game he was more like a modern day armed security guard or private contractor. It was quasi legal work.
When his employer was killed he went off the deep end.

There was more than likely a short time when people in that area considered him a misunderstood good guy. he seems to have had his share of friends till the killings during his famous jail break.

Not much to build a heroic image on.

The Charleton artwork reminds me of the Rawhide Kid before he came out of the closet.

[crashryan]

First off, let's get past this Billy the Kid thing. We all agree there wasn't much heroic about the original article. It mystifies me that people insist on idolizing crooks and bandits. Maybe Billy promised to shake things up in Washington. The unjustly accused hero on the lam is a perennial Western theme, and insofar as comics are concerned Billy the Kid is just another one of them, divorced from history. In fact when Charlton launched their Billy they made a point of showing us he's not that Billy the Kid, but a relative. I'm sure the readers immediately forgot that detail.

Anyway, let's ignore the real Billy and examine Toby's version. The first thing I notice is that they can't make up their mind who Billy is. We get two different origin stories. In one Billy is a real kid, freckles and all, and though he's provoked he doesn't mind mowing down bad guys. In the other Billy is an adult and doesn't like to kill. The stories are okay. The last one, about a double-crossing old friend, is pretty good. The art isn't as good, especially in the double-cross story. Leon Winik cops out at every turn, giving us not one but two closeups of coffee pots.

The Charlton Billy reverses the trend: the artwork is okay but the stories are weak. Though Jose Delbo is a good artist, he's capable of much better work. You can tell he wasn't being paid well. All those outline silhouettes drive me nuts. The stories are choppy and seem to have been written as they went along. If the first one is by Joe Gill, as it seems to be, I suspect that's exactly what happened. There are two puzzling moments. In the last story, Billy's Mexican buddy is able to bring all kinds of food into the cell through the trapdoor but he says Billy can't escape because "there is no way out." The other odd thing is a reference to Billy's "delicate feet." An attempt at characterization?

Others have mentioned that the townspeople want to lynch Billy even though he has only wounded his opponent. I smell a Code change. On the opening page it's clear Billy kills the guy. Either the editor or the Comics Code asked for that "Clete is alive" business after the fact.

[SuperScrounge]

Two-Gun Promise! - Funny how some people try to treat Billy the Kid as a hero. If this had been about a anyone else it wouldn't have been a bad story, but as part of a white-washing of a historical villain it just rubbed me the wrong way.

Too Pretty To Kill - Pretty much the same reaction to the other story.

As for a comparison, Charlton's version seemed a little better written and a lot better drawn, but neither seem to match reality.

[John Kerry]

If rating these books for historical accuracy probably about a 1 or 2, for entertainment value a 7 or 8. As a kid I wasn't much of a western reader, just the odd issue of The Lone Ranger or Zorro, so the Charlton book was one I didn't read while the Toby book was a bit before my time. I do recall reading somewhere that the lead character in the Charlton titlewas not the historical Billy but a relative. This kept the CCA happy as they weren't glorifyng a criminal but it allowed Charlton to use a name that would attract kids. Both books were enjoyable, though I also noticed the seemingly two 'origin' stories for Billy in the Toby comic. Also if the guys Billy killed in the first story really were outlaws I doubt the law would have given him much grief for killing them. Rest of the book was enjoyable and I like the feature on guns. As far as the Charlton book goes Billy is too close to the law to be the real Billy. The stories weren't bad. Yes there were plot inconsistencies but we kids wouldn't have noticed that. The stories were typical western fare and decent examples of tghe genre. Idid find 'The Raiders' interesting. The art on both books was pretty good. It didn't get in the way of the story which as a kid was allwe asked for. I enjoyed them and might check out other books in these runs.

[narfstar]

Hard to say it but it seems the Charlton story may actually been aimed at an older audience. The Toby story was very kid's fare with pretty decent art. The Charlton inclusion of some romance may have been for a slightly older crowd. I don't think that there were two inconsistent origins in the Toby book. The "assigned" story took place some time later with a mention that Bart had been a soldier buddy of Billy's. So Billy left as a teen, served some time in the military then returned home where he became an outlaw by killing the Sheriff. The Toby story sure did not want the reader to be old enough to question its logic. After a couple fake claims Bart would have been found out and the sheriff was portrayed as a seemingly honest guy. He would not have gone after Billy and would not have been able to get up a posse most would have sided with Billy.

[paw broon]

First time I read both stories, I thought I preferred the Toby.  On second reading, I changed my mind and preferred the Charlton story. Yes, typical Charlton, thought up fast, rushed through, simplistic and finishing too abruptly, but it is more entertaining.  And, on balance, I prefer the art in the Charlton story. 
Also, in the Toby comic, our page 13 panel 4, Billy's pistol seems to eject the cartridge when he fires.
As for Billy as hero, well, we all know that's a load of old cobblers, but this is just another cowboy hero who happens to be called Billy the Kid and I think if we accept these two bear little resemblance to the real one, then we can enjoy these wee western adventures.
73042helloworld mentions the 3rd. Billy the Kid, from the British weekly, Sun, and it's very worthwhile checking the compilations we have on site
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=61586
because here we have a masked mystery man style cowboy with Billy at one point doing the Zorro impression in a sword fight.  Absolutely sfa to do with the real life Billy.  Oh, and the art is much better on the Sun series than in either the Toby or Charlton stories.

[narfstar]

The Sun version does appear to be by far the best

[crashryan]

I agree with you, narf, though I could do without the "Yip, yip, yip! Hi-yo!"

[pabrides]

Absolutely no comparison in art, dialogue, or story.  Sun is clearly ahead of the game.

Ive been to the graves of Billy the Kid (see photo) and Buffalo Bill

[SuperScrounge]

Even in death they're afraid of Billy escaping. 


Yeah, yeah, probably to stop souvenir collectors.

[pabrides]

Here's Buffalo Bill and Billy's grave sign that talks about his head stone.
Buffalo's grave looks down onto the city of Denver... cool location.

Even in death they're afraid of Billy escaping. 


Yeah, yeah, probably to stop souvenir collectors.

[MarkWarner]

My standard modus operandi for the reading group is to read the book (pretty essential I feel). Then post my (not inconsiderable) thoughts and then go through the thread to see what others think.

As I am so late on this one I decided to break with tradition and read the thread BEFORE posting! And so that meant more "work" as I also had to look at the Sun version. But to be honest it was the only one I even halfway enjoyed. I really am not a western comic book guy. I loved watching them when I was a kid ... but I think I have sort of grown out of them (about the only growing up I have managed). So not a good read (times 3) for me

[John Kerry]

Well as the saying goes, "growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional".

[narfstar]

You are going the opposite direction of most Mark. It seems to me that people return to westerns as they get older. I have.