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the downfall of the adventure strips

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topic icon Author Topic: the downfall of the adventure strips  (Read 14173 times)

profh0011

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the downfall of the adventure strips
« on: September 10, 2012, 10:03:38 PM »

It just seems to me-- as someone who used to go thru the excruitiating trouble of getting the paper every day, holding onto them, cutting out certain strips and pasting them into scrap books-- that the "feature editors" themselves were the downfall of the adventure strips, and by connection, the newspapers as well.


What happened was, rather than recognize the importance of the strips to the sales of the papers, they focused on cutting back on the amount of space given to the strips, in favor of MORE ADVERTISING. It's the same crap the TV industry has done over the years.  An hour TV show used to be maybe 52-1/2 minutes of show, the rest, commercials.  That was cut to 50, then less. I think it's barely holding at 45 these days. An added side-effect is stations running reruns of old shows expect to squeeze a 50-or more-minute show into a 45-min. slot. People do not watch to see commercials, any more than they buy papers to read adverts.  So MUTILATING and otherwise cutting back on what people do want is only going, in the long run, to hurt your sales, or viewership. They don't think so-- but IT DOES.


I recall a specific instance where the PHILADELPHIA BULLETIN, in 1980, had the new STAR TREK strip (art by Thomas Warkentin, who also did "Soft Landing" for HEAVY METAL, which was adapted into the feature film's opening credit sequence), and the revival of BUCK ROGERS (art by the incredible Gray Morrow).  I was collecting both. At one point, they dropped BUCK ROGERS.  I wrote in to complain.  The editor actually wrote back... with a list of 3 reasons they'd dropped BUCK ROGERS.  I can't remember the 3rd reason, but the 2 I do recall were, 1)they liked STAR TREK better (I wanted both, dammit), and 2)they thought BR was "in poor taste" (translation:  in their Puritanical eyes, the women Gray Morrow drew, with their slinky, sexy outfits, was too hot for Philadelphia readers to deal with).


Not long after, STAR TREK lost Warkinton. The art of his replacement was AWFUL.  6 months later (or was it only 3?) they switched artists again, IT GOT WORSE! I stopped buying the paper. A few months later... THE BULLETIN went out of business.  Good riddance.  They didn't give a damn about their readers.


For about 6 months, THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER picked up several of THE BULLETIN's best strips, and their Sunday section was bigger and better than ever.  Then, slowly, they dropped strip after strip, until it was back to the previous size.  Sheesh...
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2012, 06:25:27 AM »

The problem I've always had with adventure strips (or any "serious" type strips for that matter) is that they just don't work with the limitations of the format. Three measely panels just is not enough to do squat with. It takes an entire week just for the character to say "hello" to the mailman, then another week for the mailman to say "hello" in return. Sunday strips are a bit better, but since they're spaced a week apart, it ammounts to the same thing (taking a whole week to get even a passable piece of a story).
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narfstar

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2012, 09:54:32 AM »

In the Sunday's every strip had to have a recap which took up space. The daily's usually ran stories to run on a quarterly bases of 13 weeks. So they were able to get a good story told. I still like reading the Phantom and Alley Oop for good stores
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profh0011

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2012, 01:43:29 PM »

I suspect the limitations of the format are probably the biggest reason why I never even considered attempting to do something for that format. Although I have seen a lot of great work done that way. I just wouldn't care to.

During my senior year in high school, I began writing longer and longer stories, where the page-count was "open", and flexible to meet the demands of the story, rather than the other way around.  It's no wonder in the 80's I came to appreciate the graphic novel format. Briefly, Howard Chaykin expressed the view that it was the format of the future. I was sad when he abandoned it so quickly. (Maybe if he'd done AMERICAN FLAGG that way instead of the almost completely idecipherable TIME2, it might have sold better.)

Slapping down paper editors again, I do feel too much attitude has been given to "people don't buy the papers everyday" as an excuse to dumb down the format, and increasing the amount of repeated material, flashbacks, etc.... rather than doing the strips in such a way as to inspire-- or "force"-- people to actually BUY the papers EVERY DAY.  Instead, they just sold more advertising space, and the strips, by default, got brushed aside, and marginalized.

I know 13 weeks was a standard.  The JAMES BOND 007 strip was interesting in that the length of each story (at least, in the 60's) depended on the story. Would you believe?  The adaptation of "ON HER MAJESTY'S SECRET SERVICE" went on for almost 11 months!!!  (It bothers me that they never, ever managed to properly finish "THUNDERBALL", however, which was cut off 13 weeks in because the publisher got pissed off at Ian Fleming...  When they resumed a year later, they skipped to the next story instead of finishing the previous one.  It's like there was a curse on that story, considering what happened with the original film project, the novelization, both film adaptations... and the comic.)
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2012, 03:19:52 PM »

Lots of interesting points.  I worked on a couple of newspapers many years ago, in advertising, not journalism, and it was apparent then that cover price wasn't nearly enough to keep dailys or weeklies going.  Advertising was what made the money, mainly because readership was about 3 - 5 times the number of copies sold and, especially with weeklies and local papers, small ads were an easy way to make profit.  All that has changed nowadays as small ads and advertising in general is down, due to recession, t.v. and internet.  Whether adventure strips would have kept people buying papers is a bit doubtful.  But I am writing from a UK experience and we didn't have the same number of strips in newspapers as was the case in N.America.  But readers were faithful to certain strips, particularly humour, in their paper of choice.  (Here, I should point to The Sunday Post and it's Fun Section, now only a shadow of its former self, where The Broons and Oor Wullie and much more flourished for decades but in a recession and given the big increases in cover prices over the last decade or so, I'm not convinced that even strips done by D.D. Watkins would have been enough to keep the circulation up.)
There are examples of very high quality adventure/s.f. strips in British papers - Modesty Blaise, Gun Law, Jeff Hawke, Garth, to name but 4 - but they were only a small part of why folk bought a paper.
Also, the point about 3 panels a day not getting moving the story fast enough is an interesting one as, here, we were used to a page or 2 or 3 a week in many of our comics and then a week's wait for the next part.  So reading a strip every day was no great burden and, if it was well enough done,  those 3 panels left you anticipating the next days developments.
Now, many people here do not buy a paper every day.  We buy a paper on Tues. and Sat. (different ones) but I read a paper on the odd other days, on the bus or in a cafe, so a daily adventure strip wouldn't make a lot of sense to me and even if I was mad about a strip, I'd probably wait for a collection, given the cost of a quality daily here.
Don't know if all that made sense.
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2012, 12:10:13 AM »

We used to get the sunday paper every week when I was a kid. We usually didn't get the daily paper, but we did get either the thursday or friday one (I forget which) on a semi-regular basis. Now I don't waste time or money on a paper at all, ever. The price has skyrocketted, while the content has plumetted (in both quality and quantity). On top of that, the papers are printed a day or two in advance, so the content is outdated even before it hits the stands. In contrast, you can get all the same content (and much more) online for free, plus you get more advanced features like video, archives, easier locating of content, customization of some things (such as TV schedules), and all of it is infinitely more up to date.

Comics are a prime example. You can get infinitely more of them online (including ones you thought were discontinued, because your paper dropped them, new ones that your paper never bothered to pick up, and sometimes foreign ones), you can get most of them in full color, 7 days a week, and you can pick & choose what ones you want and what ones you don't. ....And I'm only talking about newspaper strips here (garfield, andy capp, beetle bailey, etc), not webcomics.


paw broon: Do you know of any websites which publish daily UK comic strips, the way sites like gocomics & some newspaper sites publish american strips online? I managed to find one (daily mirror), but it only has 4 or 5 strips, and doesn't have the weekend ones. I'd really like to read the horace cowboy one daily, and see what other ones the UK has.
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profh0011

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2012, 12:21:05 PM »

Nice surprise, a thread I started getting so many interesting replies!

We were a bit odd. We got the COURIER POST 6 days a week (Mon-Sat), as it was only published 6 days a week, and it was cheaper than the 2 Philly papers. But then we got both Philly papers on Sundays only, for the comics.

A lot of adventure strips would have 2 separate stories between dailies and Sundays, so this was no problem.  We got THE PHANTOM and MANDRAKE and BUZ SAWYER on weekdays. I'm trying to remember the ones on Sundays.  DICK TRACY we only read on Sundays.  Now due to the very odd way that was done, Sundays tended to "summarize" the high points of the week. But you always felt you were missing a lot of the "character" of it.  Not sure how it happened, but when Chester Gould retired & Max Allan Collins took over, dumped the sci-fi and ressurected the tougher crime drama style (nowhere near as nasty as the 40's had been, but still a big improvement over the 60's & early 70's), we started getting THE INQUIRER every day.

Years earlier, I recall being frustrated by the DARK SHADOWS strip, as it ran 7 days a week, and you had to read both the dailies and the Sundays!  Since we only got the Sundays at the time, the stories never quite made sense. Decades later, the entire run was reprinted in a TPB-- but, all in B&W (no color for the Sunday strips), and with the art shrunken terribly to fit the format.

Kitchen Sink Press (sadly long gone) had the right idea about strip reprints.  They used a horizontal format which would allow them to print 2 dailies (or 1 Sunday), LARGE size. You could appreciate the art that way!

Although I've appreciated reading some English strips in reprints-- JAMES BOND 007, MODESTY BLAISE (even better), and AXA (what gorgeous, sexy art), the formats of the books prevented them from really doing the artwork justice.
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2012, 06:52:34 PM »

I've always read a lot of paperback reprints of strips (humor ones though, not adventure), 99.999% of them were printed in standard paperback format, usually with the panels rearranged to fit the vertical shape of the book (sunday ones were likewise rearranged). The only ones I've seen in the horizontal format are garfield ones. I always felt that the vertical ones were easier to handle the book, but tended to feel pretty awkward in regards to the layout.

The town I grew up in didn't publish a sunday edition, but the one from erie (approx 40 miles away & the nearest city of equal or larger size) was sold in all the local stores, so that's what we got every week. Once in a while we'd buy a pittsburgh edition (approx 200 miles away), which were only sold in a few stores in that town (but were more common in neighboring towns). It was interesting comparing what strips the 2 papers had/lacked relative to each other.

I never really read adventure strips at all, for the reasons already mentioned, combined with a lack of interesting looking ones. The only adventure strips I ever read at the time were spiderman (I've been a spidey fan since before I can even remember), and occaisional spurts of dick tracy and phantom. Those were the best of what was in our papers. We didn't have popeye, nor any sci-fi strips, nor anything else which was ever even remotely interesting. In fact, I think the only other comic we had which could be classified as adventure was prince valiant (which I think I did actually read once in a rare while, now that I think about it).
The paper we had contained mostly humor strips (thankfully). Beyond the handful of adventure was I already mentioned, there were a couple soap opera strips such as dr morgan (or something like that) and some other one with a woman's name in the title, mark trail (sort of an educational strip, I guess), and a couple hard to categorize ones like doonesbury.

You're right about most adventure strips having semi-independant runs weekdays vs sundays, and usually a summary on the sunday strip. While that setup is far better than being forced to read every single strip each week, it still left the problem of limited content per week (in fact, having to use the space for the summary each week reduced the available space even further). Two full weeks of strips contain less story than is found between a single pair of commercial breaks on any TV show.

Back in the 80s, our sunday paper had a big comics section, with 2 full, double-sided broadsheet pages of comics, with each strip having the full width of the page. Later they started reducing it to 7 of the 8 "pages", reducing the size of the strips, and sticking in some in vertical arrangements (the back of the comics section would be a full page ad, usually for a local car lot). Later they ditched that backpage ad, but reduced the middle sheet from a broadsheet to a tabloid size, leaving only 6 "pages" of comics. Then in the mid 90s or so, they reduced it to 5 "pages" plus 2 strips, and used the remaining 2/3~3/4 of the back page for more educational content (primarily a "fairytale from around the world" text segment, plus some kind of facts/trivia thing). Each time they reduced the physical space available to the comics, they both reduced the size of each strip & reduced the number of strips. The last time I looked, they had shifted the whole paper to a smaller format (still essentially broadsheet, but about 20~30% smaller in each direction. I don't know if it's the "berliner" format or just some arbitrary/custom one), reduced the comics section to a single "berliner" sheet (4 "pages"), with half of the back page being the aforementioned fairytale thing, and strips being squashed & crunched to fit about 6~8 to a page (in addition to vertical arrangements, many are squashed into a square arrangement, placing 2.5 strips (2 squares, plus about half of a veritcal strip) into the space formerly filled by just 1.
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2012, 08:54:35 PM »

"paw broon: Do you know of any websites which publish daily UK comic strips, the way sites like gocomics & some newspaper sites publish american strips online? I managed to find one (daily mirror), but it only has 4 or 5 strips, and doesn't have the weekend ones. I'd really like to read the horace cowboy one daily, and see what other ones the UK has."Drahken

No, sorry but there is a mail order co. who have limited rights to reprint old British newspaper strips - ad follows:-
A 12 MONTH MEMBERSHIP NOW COSTS JUST
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paw broon

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josemas

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 12:33:04 PM »

This site used to have a number of complete stories of David Wright's beautifully drawn Carol Day strips for free but because of pirating problems they now sell them for $2.99 via Amazon.  You can still see plenty of examples of the strip at the site though.

http://carol-day.com/

Best

Joe
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 01:14:46 PM »

Carol Day is an excellent strip.  Ha also did Judy, an earlier strip and not up to quite the same standard as CD but enjoyable all the same - on the same site:-
http://carol-day.com/judy.php

Off out to get something for our tea.
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WileyJ

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2012, 04:50:15 PM »

this is off subject...but i was looking at the yellow kid strips and found alfred e newman!! hes sitting on the fence in the pic titled"a football game in caseys alley".evidently he was around long before mad mag lol
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2012, 09:23:29 PM »

paw broon: I was hoping for a site with daily updated strips (like http://www.mirror.co.uk/lifestyle/cartoons/horace/ or http://www.gocomics.com/brewsterrockit/ ). Still, those are some interesting strips.

I wish the US had something like UK's comic mags (such as dandy, cor, tv comic, etc). It's nice when a strip gets a whole page (and sometimes 2) to itself.
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unclerobin@att.net

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2012, 04:10:10 PM »

Would Alley Oop be considered an adventure strip? I think that once the time travel element was introduced, it became one. noticed some Alley Oop reprints in The Funnies and those were pre-time travel stories, more comedy than adventure, but still having adventure-type elements, such as continuing storylines. For that matter, shouldn't Popeye and Thimble Theater (the Segar version) also be considered an adventure strip, after Popeye's introduction? And here's one from left field for ya - Mickey Mouse's '30s strips by floyd Gottfriedson. I know you probably can"t run the Mouse strips, what with Disney's stranglehold on copyrights, but the Alley Oop and Thimble Theater/Popeye strips would be much appreciated by this fan.
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2012, 06:47:10 PM »

Sorry to disappoint you, Drahken but that's sometimes how it is and you just have to make do with what's available.  That's not to say that there aren't other sites that I haven't found, so if you stumble over them, please let the rest of us have the link.  But, as I was going to come back to with Beau Peep anyway, here's the link for a number of daily strips.  Check through the rest of the site in case there are more.
http://www.beaupeep.com/stripsofweek/weeklystrip1.php
And here's Bristow:-
http://www.frankdickens.com/FD/Pages/Bristow/Bristow.htm

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profh0011

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2012, 08:33:59 PM »

The other year I got into an argument with a friend at work (who was in such a contrary mood she got into the habit of automatically contradicting every single thing I'd say-- that got old REAL fast) about "continuity" strips.  To her, PEANUTS was one, because stories might go over a week or two.

However, I think any sensible person would see a difference between a "humor" strip and an "adventure" strip. Except, of course, when you have an "humorous adventure" strip.  For example:  LI'L ABNER, or, about 20 years ago, NORB

The latter is no doubt obscure, as it was by Tony Auth, the political cartoonist for THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER, and a writer whose name I forget.  It took me a couple of weeks (I started reading it from the very first day) to realize what was strange about it.  No daily punch lines. It finally hit me, it was an "adventure" strip, with humor, which just happened to be drawn in a VERY cartoony style.  The 3 main characters were a old scientist-inventor type, a scruffy-looking teenage girl, and a baby wooly mammoth who'd been thawed out from a glacier. (It was so cute!)

The strip, sadly, failed to catch on, and ended after about 18 months.  The odd thing was, the Sundays and dailies had totally separate storylines, but the Sundays went on without a break. By the end, I realized the entire 18 months of Sundays made sense if you read them after reading all 18 months of the dailies!

I actually was able to visit Tony Auth in his office one day (after getting in touch and making an appointment).  While there, I found out he was a fan of TINTIN.  As far as I know, he's still doing political cartoons, though I haven't seen his stuff in awhile.
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2012, 09:06:30 PM »


Sorry to disappoint you, Drahken but that's sometimes how it is and you just have to make do with what's available. 

Yeah, I know. I wasn't able to any better, that's why I took the opportunity to ask you, hoping that a UK native might know of a resource that I couldn't find. I do appreciate your efforts though.


re humor vs adventure strips: I think a prime difference between the 2 is how self-contained any individual strip is. Humor strips are always complete within a single strip, even if they're part of a larger storyline. Adventure strips on the other hand are rarely (if ever) complete in a single strip, you MUST read a dozen or more strips.

There's one zany old strip that I stumbled onto a while back, "the squirrel cage": sample 1 , sample 2  , sample 3
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2012, 05:40:55 PM »

Actually I'm not too sure about that definition.  Some of the refs. I posted, e.g. The Gambols, are self contained, humour strips. Same with Andy Capp.  The Perishers has, from time to time, a sort of continuity.
Jane, however, is a mix of adventure and humour, plus glamour - a few examples on the following links:-
http://gocomics.typepad.com/rcharvey/2007/04/the_unforgettab.html
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_448y6kVhntg/SRY4FjUQnBI/AAAAAAAACwA/JoApF8J-eOs/s1600-h/jane.jpg
(this from the excellent blog by Lew Stringer)
And here's stuff from an Italian site, interesting as the strip is translated into Italian and it ran through the war:-
http://www.giannibono.com/2011/01/27/jane-un-addio-sorprendente/
A Lambiek entry:-
http://www.lambiek.net/artists/p/pett_norman.htm

Now the next challenge is to try to track down some Fosdyke Saga.
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2012, 03:24:03 PM »

OK Drahken, The Squirrel Cage is great.  Thank you.  I have to find more so if you have links please post them.
I also meant to say earlier that comic strips, adventure strips, seem to require a different skill set to that needed for a typical American comic. With the restrictions of a few panels a day, the creators have a whole different set of problems in order to pull the reader in - no front cover, no splash page, a need to advance the story in a coherent form within the particular restraints, while still turning out either humour, thrills, intrigue, or all 3 and managing to lay down quality art in, what will be, a very small area.  Any thoughts or comments, anyone?

Still no Fosdyke Saga.  But The Daily Telegraph site has a pile of daily Alex strips:-
http://www.alexcartoon.com/index.cfm?showall=1

I posted this a while back but I forget where, so here it is again, a Paul Temple newspaper strip:-
http://bearalley.blogspot.co.uk/2011/05/paul-temple-and-runaway-knight-part-1.html

and other PT strips, you'll just have to footer about to find the start:-
http://bearalley.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Paul%20Temple

Hope you enjoy them - I'm a big Paul Temple fan.  There were radio shows way back and recent versions with new cast but faithful to the originals, films, tv series and newspaper strips.
Lots on youtube:-
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=paul+temple&oq=paul+temple&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.1918.5690.0.6225.11.9.0.2.2.0.104.646.8j1.9.0...0.0...1ac.1.ErcBMX8-4xc
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2012, 04:30:58 PM »

Get this now before it disappears:-
http://www.thrillmer.com/archives/seekers/index.php
The Seekers (not to be confused with the popular folksy combo of the same name - Mark will know who I'm talking about) by John Burns is very good indeed and I knew I had the link somewhere but, could I find it?
I fancy reading this again, it's so good.

Modifying this to add that there is more Squirrel Page here:-
http://screwballcomics.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/nov-shmoz-ka-pop-gene-aherns-mysterious.html
And yes, I now know that Ahern did "Our Boarding House"
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 04:36:53 PM by paw broon »
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unclerobin@att.net

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2012, 05:07:12 PM »

Hey, paw, it's me again. Seeing your mention of the Seekers made me remember that my brother Johnny (the one who got me into comics in the first place - thanks, brother!) had a great record collection and I always liked the Seekers' record YOU WERE ON MY MIND, it makes me remember my brother fondly. He was only 30 when he passed away from colon cancer (and he didn't even smoke! I did! What was I THINKING?) way back in 1975, but his influence on me was profound and everlasting. Thanks for making me remember some more.
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unclerobin@att.net

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2012, 05:28:47 PM »

By the way, paw, if you can get on my facebook profile page and scroll down to the bottom, you'll find a funny little story about Johnny, me, and my twin brother Bob (who passed away on January 6, 2011, of respiritory failure - what IS it with us Olsen boys and our cigarettes?) in our younger days - you might find it amusing.
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paw broon

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2012, 06:52:18 PM »

Sorry about your bad health, Unca Robin.  I'm not on Facebook so I don't think I'll be able to access your page.  I'll give it a go though.
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Drahken

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Re: the downfall of the adventure strips
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2012, 09:33:48 PM »

Yeah, that screwball comics blog is my primary source of squirrel cage comics. It's also a good source for other oddities, like smokey stover.

http://screwballcomics.blogspot.com/search/label/Gene%20Ahern%3A%20The%20Squirrel%20Cage
http://screwballcomics.blogspot.com/search/label/Bill%20Holman%3A%20Smokey%20Stover

Squirrel cage also has it's own blog: http://the-squirrel-cage.blogspot.com/


Also, anyone here remember the "foxy grandpa" hat on an episode of spongebob? Did anyone know that it was a real character/comic?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RpoeY3NNw2o/T4doGajCYUI/AAAAAAAAFTo/C4YqkBmekEg/s1600/Jack+Cole+Foxy+Grandpa+Page+1+KomikPages.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pg9kNX2mZvk/T4doLa2MhQI/AAAAAAAAFTw/czpOuJCKYsg/s1600/Jack+Cole+Foxy+Grandpa+Page+2+KomikPages.jpg


edit: I just found this interesting article about the evolution of newspaper comics, which includes some full-page samples of old comic pages.
http://potrzebie.blogspot.com/search/label/death%20of%20newspapers
« Last Edit: September 16, 2012, 11:07:58 PM by Drahken »
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