Comic Book Plus Forum
All And Everything => General Discussion => Topic started by: John C on November 21, 2009, 05:13:10 PM
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The "Smallville" series has been off my radar for a few years, now, since it...ah...stopped making any darn sense, at some point, and I got tired of arrogant and obnoxious Clark constantly painted the hero we should all look up to.
But I needed something mindless to watch while I was preparing dinner, and they shifted it to Friday nights. Because that worked SO well over on Fox for their adventure shows, I guess. What's that? It didn't work and all those shows get cancelled? Oh. Well, never mind, then.
Anyway, I watched the episode, and the show still doesn't make a whit of sense (made worse, I'm sure, by not having watched in years), but the coming attractions got my attention. I'm not expecting genius, or even goodness, but the first week of February is going to showcase the world's Justice Society of America. Looks like at least shiny flashbacks with the original Hawkman, Green Lantern, and Dr. Fate. So it could be worth keeping in mind as a way to waste a couple of hours in Golden Age fun. Heh--Or it'll stink...
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I'll admit to being a fan of the show for the first 4-5 years, but lately it just seems to be treading water and I really haven't paid attention for a long time. I was disappointed with the way the show handled the Legion of Super-Heroes, Martian Manhunter and Doomsday, so I haven't watched it at all this year. I can't wait to see how the writers mishandle the JSA ... or can I? Well, I just looked at the preview on CW's site and have to say "Holy Crap! That' looks cool!" I really hope they don't mess it up. Dr Fate looked darn-near perfect, so that in itself is reason enough to at least check it out. Thanks for the heads-up.
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I'm a fan of the show but this season, I feel like they've reached the end of their arc. At this point, Clark is patrolling Metropolis in a semi-uniform, working at the Daily Planet, and getting romantic with Lois Lane. They should really just make him Superman and call it a day. They're no longer showing the journey that leads to his eventual destiny (the original point of the show). Plus the more superheroes they introduce to the series, the more Clark just seems like a Johnny-come-lately.
Anyhow, I'm intrigued to see the JSA episode. It's written by Geoff Johns who did a pretty solid job with the characters in the comics so it could be enjoyable.
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I should clarify my thoughts, here.
Regarding the JSAers, I'm accepting that it probably won't go well, but will watch because I want to see what they look like. What I saw in the preview had a strong 1940s movie sensibility to it, and that's something I've wanted to see for a long time. So I'm looking forward to it, even if the script is a complete turkey.
Will Geoff Johns do a good job? I don't know. He can be good, but he's too easily influenced by people around him. The first few issues of the JSA series reeked of James Robinson's "The Golden Age" influence, and once that (and he) went away, things got better quickly (except the lurching "the universe just vomited Hawkman back up so stop asking questions" stuff). Falling in with Alex Ross similarly produces weird obsessive plots that go nowhere, and his Green Lantern work reads like Alan Moore fan fiction. When he can find his own voice, he's good, but it remains to be seen if he can do that here.
(At DC, I'd like to see him in an editorial capacity. He's got a good eye for keeping details straight and knowing what the majority of the audience is willing to ignore when it changes. He's also not bad at coming up with big plot ideas, even when it overreaches his ability to write it.)
Regarding Smallville itself, I forget when I tuned out, but there was a very good season finale that basically ended with "everybody dies." It had a lot of potential to juggle things around and change the status quo, and I envisioned (for example) Lex and his father swapping bodies (a nod to the Ultra-Humanite and explainiing why Lex never seemed at all evil) and Chloe going into hiding and becoming Lois (before that awful actress was introduced). The first few episodes of the next season seemed to just be saying "just kidding!" over and over again. That's about when I just drifted away.
Since then, I watch if there's nothing else on, and it always gives me a headache. Elements seem hauled in and out at random, as opposed to keeping to an overall plot, and half the time it's like they're introducing things just for the sake of saying "look, we remember this character, too." On the one hand, they seem like they're moving too fast towards something (as you point out, he's 99.9% Superman in practice as "The Blur," and they seem to have introduced everybody in the DCU it's cheap to license), but on the other, it's painfully slow.
Then there's the fact that Clark is still the same whining, manipulative, adolescent creep (I'm generalizing the low points, but you get my meaning) as he was in high school, who needs a father figure to slap him around, some. In fact, the loss of Jonathan Kent specifically seems to have derailed the show, since there's no longer anybody to act as the kindly voice of reason. Everybody defers to him, rather, making his stupid choices and aggression seem like that's the ideal the writers are holding up.
It's actually kind of funny that the things that kept me watching are long gone and, really, had nothing to do with Superman. I thought the exploration of their (fake) Native American myths was interesting enough to go on for a while, as was the whole "Splendor in the Grass" bit with Jor-El having visited Earth in the past and the various Luthor connections. Actually, I wouldn't have minded if the show had been more about the town and its history than the brooding Neanderthal, now that I think about it.
OK, I think I'm done venting on the subject...
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After reading this, John,
I have eliminated the last lingering doubt I may have had about not watching television...
(|:{>
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When I was a kid, we used to dream of things like the JSA on TV. And cell phones that weighed less than a typewriter. Which is like a keyboard, only different.
I don't watch "Dawson's Cr.." er "Smallville", but I may watch this just to see live-action JSAers.
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Somebody remind me when this comes on. I know I'll forget to watch otherwise.
-Yoc
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After reading this, John,
I have eliminated the last lingering doubt I may have had about not watching television...
(|:{>
I hear that, Jim, but by those standards, we'd also have to stay out of movie theaters and quit reading...
In marginal defense of "Smallville," though, nobody involved with the character on an ongoing basis has really had a handle on things in decades. Elliot S! Maggin was close, though his stories seemed to flop back and forth between way too personal and too abstractly cosmic for my tastes. I think that the first movie (and only the first) did a fine job (as did the George Reeves series and especially the Kirk Alyn serials), but everything else has been equally adrift in a moral sense since the focus landed on Superman's alienness.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy all the various takes on Krypton and get a kick out of the absurd number of refugees the extinct race has (by the time the '70s rolled around, did ANYBODY die in the destruction of Krypton!?). But the one thing that guarantees failure in a Superman story is that he's an angsty refugee who doesn't fit in.
"Smallville" had potential there, in bridging the gap. After all, a high school student can be forgiven feeling like he doesn't belong, because nobody feels like they belong in high school. But here we are, many years later, and Clark is a reporter without a college degree (I think) and still hasn't grown the heck up yet.
But all is not lost in the wasteland of primetime. "Castle" is actually quite good (a mystery writer who works with the NYPD) on a number of levels, and the main character is actually a nice guy who wants to do good things for people, odd as that may sound.
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I think Dexter is one of the best written shows on TV and I just started watching the Mentalist and it is interesting
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Dexter is quite good in a creepy way. I enjoyed Northern Exposure until Joel left. Spaced is a great BritCom.
-Yoc
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Dexter has been recommended to me by several people, though most have said it's because the character reminds them of me. I'm not sure how to take that, exactly...
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Gee, I'd be freaked out if someone said that to me!
You might not want to watch any of them now John.
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Remember everyone on the show likes Dexter because he is a good guy and they do not know his secret. So John must be the good guy without the secret
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He's also not bad at coming up with big plot ideas, even when it overreaches his ability to write it.)
Definitely agree on that point. I have a love/hate relationship with Geoff Johns' writing. He's great with big ideas mixed with smaller character moments. But his dialogue can be so corny and exposition-heavy and fanboy-ish.
I do feel that JSA was the one book where his writing usually shined. Some of his best plots and characterizations were in that series and I love the new generation of characters that were added to the team. He and David Goyer brought the JSA into the modern era and established them as a cornerstone of the DCU, as they should be. As such, I'm hopeful that Johns can be true to the characters and come up with something interesting for this episode.
As far as Smallville itself, all your criticisms are fair. I can't deny that Clark comes across as overbearing or that the show has lost some of its focus or that it always had a Dawson's Creek-ish young beautiful angsty people vibe. I still enjoy it as a fun and different take on Superman though. I'm invested in it after nine seasons and forgive some of its flaws. But as I said, I think they need to stick a fork in it after this season. The story they set out to tell is pretty much done.
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He's also not bad at coming up with big plot ideas, even when it overreaches his ability to write it.)
Good job of expressing my opinions on Smallville better than I could. I too have been invested in it from the start.
As far as Smallville itself, all your criticisms are fair. I can't deny that Clark comes across as overbearing or that the show has lost some of its focus or that it always had a Dawson's Creek-ish young beautiful angsty people vibe. I still enjoy it as a fun and different take on Superman though. I'm invested in it after nine seasons and forgive some of its flaws. But as I said, I think they need to stick a fork in it after this season. The story they set out to tell is pretty much done.
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I do feel that JSA was the one book where his writing usually shined. Some of his best plots and characterizations were in that series and I love the new generation of characters that were added to the team. He and David Goyer brought the JSA into the modern era and established them as a cornerstone of the DCU, as they should be. As such, I'm hopeful that Johns can be true to the characters and come up with something interesting for this episode.
I agree, with the caveat that he worked best alone. When Robinson was on the team, it was a struggle to get into the book because everybody had to be directionless or snotty. Likewise, the current(?) series seemed to be all about Alex Ross designs and Kingdom Come connections. Bleh.
But he caught my attention with his "Stars and STRIPE," which showed that he understood the ideas of the Golden Age stories and how legacies fit together. I just wish he had more of a backbone when it comes to collaborating, I guess. And that worries me especially, here, where he's just one staff writer among many.
(And as I mentioned, if he can, that's just gravy, because I'm tuning in just for the pretty pictures of Dr. Fate and Green Lantern.)
As far as Smallville itself, all your criticisms are fair. I can't deny that Clark comes across as overbearing or that the show has lost some of its focus or that it always had a Dawson's Creek-ish young beautiful angsty people vibe. I still enjoy it as a fun and different take on Superman though. I'm invested in it after nine seasons and forgive some of its flaws. But as I said, I think they need to stick a fork in it after this season. The story they set out to tell is pretty much done.
There's nothing wrong with liking it, by any means.
As I said, when I stopped watching it, there was a lot to like, and I don't doubt there still is. After taking a break, though, it just feels so wrong in how they're going about things. There's also, to me, a matter of potential. There are so many interesting iideas in the background, that it's a little painful for me to watch as I think of all the things they could be doing instead of rehashing a story I'm pretty sure they stole from the Dean Cain "Lois and Clark" series (the Kandorians, I mean)...
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I do feel that JSA was the one book where his writing usually shined. Some of his best plots and characterizations were in that series and I love the new generation of characters that were added to the team. He and David Goyer brought the JSA into the modern era and established them as a cornerstone of the DCU, as they should be. As such, I'm hopeful that Johns can be true to the characters and come up with something interesting for this episode.
I agree, with the caveat that he worked best alone. When Robinson was on the team, it was a struggle to get into the book because everybody had to be directionless or snotty.
Robinson was only on the book for the first story arc, if I recall. Do you mean Goyer? I thought the Johns/Goyer issues were quite good actually.
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Robinson was only on the book for the first story arc, if I recall. Do you mean Goyer? I thought the Johns/Goyer issues were quite good actually.
No, I mean exactly that first arc, plus all the lead-in bits. The overall plot was decent, I guess, but it was too slanted into "writers' favorites" and "guys we included to make our favorites look cooler."
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Well I am looking forward to the JSA appearence in the Smallville... I have only in the last few months starting watching it again. Just because I have been bored with most other things that are on (while waiting for Numb3rs to come on).
I think the show lost it's focus when they tried to hard with all of the Kryptonian stuff... They just drowned us in it and were consistantly and frustratingly vague. Which had to be a put-off for non-Superman fans - at least the Superman fans can remotely ferret out what is being hinted at - I can't imagine what anyone who has no idea is thinking.
Frankly I am glad they have Green Arrow instead of Batman (Which I am sure they chose him because of his similarity to Wayne, I.E;RICH and polar opposite of Luther).
I can't say I have even remotely been wowed by a lot of guest appearences... Flash being the most disappointing for this super speedster fan (I really wanted it to be Barry and not Impulse - though Barry should have been a VERY young Police Scientist if they had used him).
The Kandor stuff has been just a mire... it is slow... it can be frustrating... I just wish they would stick it in a damn bottle and leave it there.
I think the introduction to Clark sans glasses and Lois is a HUGE mistake. There is no way she wouldn't know without doing the silver age mindwipes. Hell she has already figured it out far as I am concerned.
I have always felt this series has had potential... I just think it has not truely come anywhere near what it could.
Oh well... Isn't this next season the last anyhow?
Frankly I think they could easily get away with a Green Arrow series at this point and just shelve Clark.
G7
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I think the show lost it's focus when they tried to hard with all of the Kryptonian stuff... They just drowned us in it and were consistantly and frustratingly vague. Which had to be a put-off for non-Superman fans - at least the Superman fans can remotely ferret out what is being hinted at - I can't imagine what anyone who has no idea is thinking.
I agree, though I think the casual fan probably just ignores the details and assumes it's going somewhere eventually. I point to the Native American myth arc that they had, where they didn't reveal much, and nobody could be expected to follow the trail.
I actually dislike the Kryptonian additions BECAUSE it comes from somewhere. I think it's the comic fans who have a harder time with it, because they see the pieces coming together and it's both annoyingly familiar and annoyingly different. Though mileage may vary and I could be entirely wrong.
Frankly I am glad they have Green Arrow instead of Batman (Which I am sure they chose him because of his similarity to Wayne, I.E;RICH and polar opposite of Luther).
Maybe it's because I haven't watched much, but I'm not even sure what purpose he serves in the series, other than providing exposition (which seems lazy writing) and a way to make it a "superhero show" without involving Superman.
I think the introduction to Clark sans glasses and Lois is a HUGE mistake. There is no way she wouldn't know without doing the silver age mindwipes. Hell she has already figured it out far as I am concerned.
As I see it, it could have been a brilliant move, but they're locking themselves into the "canonical status quo."
What I mean is that they could have redefined the Lois and Clark relationship as something that's a little less childishly competitive. I mean, imagine if Lois keeps trying to "expose" Superman partly to keep other people from investigating the connection, but also to keep Clark from realizing that she knows the secret.
(Of course, back in early seasons, with Lex being such a nice guy, I often thought it could be interesting if his role of villain was chosen to elevate Clark's reputation after some kind of disaster. So I might just be entertained by conspiracy.)
I have always felt this series has had potential... I just think it has not truely come anywhere near what it could.
That was one of the most frustrating things about watching it, yeah. There are so many directions they could be taking their existing plots, and they keep falling back to "naw, this could totally be the background to the Schwartz-edited Superman!"
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I had fun reading all these posts leading up to the show. I was excited to actually see the JSA on TV played live. I went with the general opinion the show lacks in a lot of production and script areas (and what is a Superboy show without a costumed hero anyway). The good: This past season they hired an actual comic book writer not only familiar with the DC heroes but, currently writing their stories in the monthly comics. It made a big difference this season. The Bad: The shows still stink.... unfortunetly- due to the acting (or lack there of) and really bad costume designs (Superboy,flash,Green Arrow) The expection: I Loved the JSA episode, the best of season so far and Dr. Fate blew me away on how good it could be if WB could just dump the Smallville soap and focus more on trying to give the look and feel of a real comic book. Hat's off for the effort and I hope they build on that sucess going into next season. Wish Dr. Fate had his own series or movie - imagine the possiblities.
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We have to take off our fanboy glasses. Smallville has been very successful. They are adding a lot more comic book elements and charaters than they "have to."
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I thought the JSA episode was a lot of fun, and definitely the best episode of the season, just like Geoff's Legion of Super-Heroes episode was one of the best episode's last season. It was a lot of fun watching the JSA come to life.
I have no issues with Smallville. It is what it is, and I enjoy their interpretation of his history. It beats a lot of other stuff that's on television.
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The only bad things I could say about this episode are:
I thought Daniel Shanks' performance as Hawkman was terrible. He's a good actor, just not this time.
Dr Fate looked cool but they seemed to write him out of the way pretty poorly. If he knew an attack was coming, why not ... I don't know ... how about ... use his powers to defend himself?
Other than that, I thought the JSA was handled fairly well, overall. Still wasn't enough to get me to watch this on a regular basis again.
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Well, with the show renewed for a 10th season - hoepfully the JSA (and perhaps The Legion) will make appearances.
I wonder what "world" of DC's 52 Earths this takes place on? :)
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I just finished watching it a second time. It's just such a good episode. I also loved the additions of Checkmate, Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller.
From what I read, the JSA will return this season.
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Watch like the first five seasons of Smallville and you'll realize how far the show has come in terms of comic elements.
Also.. mmm.. kristen kreuk...
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Watch like the first five seasons of Smallville and you'll realize how far the show has come in terms of comic elements.
Also.. mmm.. kristen kreuk...
I was always a fan of Kristen Kreuk :-*
She was recently on Chuck, but they really didn't have any chemistry. But she looked good. ;)
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The JSA characters were visually entertaining, but I thought that the actors chosen were lacklustre in their performances. Still a nice episode in general... I'll take the JSA appearance any day over the appearance of the Wonder Twins... yeesh!!! :o
Speaking of Ms. Kreuk, from an earlier post... anybody remember what happened to her Lana character? Do I recall her gaining Kryptonian like powers and then flying off never to return, or was that some type of fever dream I had???
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Man, I don't recall. Was that after she came back for Jimmy and Chloe's wedding? I can remember her having powers, but can't remember if it was pre or post Doomsday.
And I liked Clark learning that Luthor would be his future enemy.
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Not sure as to timeline. Going to have to go back and watch that episode again. Pretty sure that somehow Clark's powers got transferred to her due to some type of kryptonite exposure (what else is new?). Looked like they might live happily ever after as a "super" couple, but then it turns out he can't come within a certain radius of where she stands due to her giving off kryptonite radiation? Then she flies off never to be heard from again. At least that's how seem to remember it....
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Had to do a little googling to refresh my memory. She stole prometheus technology from LexCorp which allowed her to absorb alien dna. She used the power to absorb a kryptonite bomb set off by Toyman. Had to leave Smallville since she was dangerious to Clark. It's all coming back to me now.
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Thanks for that. Saves me having to watch it again. ::)
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Sorry. :(
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No need to be. I was being sincere with my thanks. :)
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Did anyone see tonight's Smallville?
Hawkman, Stargirl, and Black Canary guest starred!
I think I'm glued to the rest of the season. ;D
B.
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Did anyone see tonight's Smallville?
Hawkman, Stargirl, and Black Canary guest starred!
I think I'm glued to the rest of the season. ;D
B.
I certainly did, awesome episode.