Comic Book Plus Forum
Comic And Book Related => Comic Book Plus Reading Group => Topic started by: K1ngcat on May 01, 2023, 01:21:11 AM
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Greetings readers, allow me to wish you all a Merry Mayday!
Jack Cole was an artist and writer whose style changed considerably over the years until his tragic suicide in 1958. Plastic Man is probably his best known creation, but he also turned out countless one-page humour strips and a lampoon of Blackhawk called Death Patrol, as well as working on Crime and Horror titles, before becoming a regular contributor to Playboy magazine.
Here are three examples of his work which I hope some of you will enjoy. From Police Comics #11 comes a 1942 Plastic Man adventure, The Brain of Cyrus Smythe:
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19820
From 1947's Smash Comics #72 comes a Midnight story, Angela the Beautiful Bovine featuring the hero's usual sidekicks Doc Wackey and Gabby the talking monkey, plus a would-be Sherlock and his pet Polar Bear Cub, who got thrown into the mix when Paul Gustafson wrote the long-running feature. Midnight's similarity to The Spirit is entirely deliberate, and as Cole contributed to the Spirit daily newspaper strips, I'm guessing Eisner didn't mind too much!
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=20032
Finally from 1953's Horror title Web of Evil #3, the classic Killer From Saturn plus Goddess of Evil,
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=71513
Let me know what you think, and don't be afraid to read the other stories in the three comics, there's a Spirit origin story and other delights which await those who delve deeper.
All the best
K1ngcat
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Some interesting selections there, K1ngcat. I'll start the ball rolling with a few comments about the Jack Cole stories in Police Comics and Smash Comics, and will come back to the others later. I remember last year we had a comic that included Plastic Man and Midnight, but apart from that, I am a newbie to Jack Coles' art. I'll look forward to being enlightened by everyone's comments.
Police Comics - The Brain of Cyrus Smythe
A great splash page. Really catches the eye with some innovative work. There's interesting artwork throughout, with lots of detail (e.g., the ship image in the binocular lenses on p. 2). However, I found I had to go back and look at some of the pics again to make sense of the story because there were details I missed. For example, in panel 3 on the bottom of p. 2, I couldn't for the life of me see a soldier who was going off to war. Eventually I realised that the form in the middle is actually the girlfriend hugging/kissing the soldier. LOL But that's probably my fault for not looking properly. The story had a few twists and turns for a brain-in-wrong-body story. Plastic Man certainly had an odd case with this one.
Smash Comics - The Beautiful Bovine
A fun story, with some interesting twists and turns. I remember reading one of these Midnight stories before, and I still wonder why no one can work out that the radio announcer and Midnight are the same person except for the domino mask. They're even wearing exactly the same suit. Lots of interesting artwork, like the 'POW' panel on p. 2. Lots of expressiveness and different postures in the characters, which gives it a unique 'feel'. I completely missed the white polar bear cub until I re-read K1ngcat's comments. Then I went back and saw he was in tons of panels. Lots of detail. You almost need to read the story and then go through a second time to look at the art. Very entertaining.
I'll post about some of the other stories later.
Cheers
QQ
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Wow, QQ, you're very quick off the mark! Thanks for your comments, there is certainly a lot of detail in Cole's art and a lot of movement too. Usually comic art is drawn larger than it appears and reduced for print, though Cole's earlier work often contained lots of very small panels as in the Plastic Man story. I don't know whether Cole hadn't yet got the hang of drawing things larger than they would appear in print, or whether he was determined to use all the space available to get the whole of his story in.
As you see in the Midnight story, he later got used to the constraints of the printed page, but his panels still often contained a lot of detail, and forms were often stretched beyond their normal shape to convey movement and action. Yes, that darned Polar bear cub did get around!
Hope you don't find Web Of Evil too upsetting..
All the best
K1ngcat
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Wow, QQ, you're very quick off the mark! Thanks for your comments, there is certainly a lot of detail in Cole's art and a lot of movement too. Usually comic art is drawn larger than it appears and reduced for print, though Cole's earlier work often contained lots of very small panels as in the Plastic Man story. I don't know whether Cole hadn't yet got the hang of drawing things larger than they would appear in print, or whether he was determined to use all the space available to get the whole of his story in.
As you see in the Midnight story, he later got used to the constraints of the printed page, but his panels still often contained a lot of detail, and forms were often stretched beyond their normal shape to convey movement and action. Yes, that darned Polar bear cub did get around!
Hope you don't find Web Of Evil too upsetting..
All the best
K1ngcat
Thanks for the extra info, K1ngcat. That makes sense about drawing in the larger format first. I guess it's hard to imagine exactly how it will look in reduced format until you really get the hang of it.
I'm going away for a few days at the end of the week, so I thought I'd at least get in some early comments on a couple of the stories. I had a quick flick through the Web of Evil one and it doesn't look too bad. In fact, I've already read the Killers of Saturn one and it was okay. Comments later. It's mainly the ones with really gory art that creep me out.
Cheers
QQ
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Okey dokey, just a few thoughts about the two Jack Cole stories K1ngcat mentioned from 'Web of Evil'. As you know, horror is not really my bag, though these ones didn't freak me out as much, so I decided to plough on :)
The Killer from Saturn
There were a few plot holes in the story for me. I'll try not to give spoilers for those who haven't read it yet, but I couldn't work out how the creature managed to kill all of those people over a period of time without anyone spotting him until towards the end. An 8-foot tall creature is kind of hard to conceal (though something towards the end gives a bit of a clue). There's also one point where it says that he 'switched his diet to the police', but he had already killed a cop a couple of pages earlier. Of all the planets, I wonder why it was assumed he was from Saturn? Did I miss something? The comments on the last page really made me think how far we've come in how we label and treat those with mental illness, though we still have a long way to go. Not my favourite story, but okay.
Regarding the art, is the limited colour palette used on purpose or was it just an artifact of the printing process? I guess it adds to the noir feel.
Goddess of Murder
I'm not a fan of vengeance stories, so I didn't really like this story. Very grim, and I didn't think the twist was all that believable. I can appreciate the talent of the art, but it's not the kind of art I like to look at.
I liked the first story a little better, but preferred the other comic books more. Thanks for an interesting selection though, K1ngcat. I probably won't read any more of the 'Web of Evil' one, but I'll try to read some more of the stories in the other two.
Cheers
QQ
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The Killer from Saturn
There were a few plot holes in the story for me. I'll try not to give spoilers for those who haven't read it yet, but I couldn't work out how the creature managed to kill all of those people over a period of time without anyone spotting him until towards the end. An 8-foot tall creature is kind of hard to conceal (though something towards the end gives a bit of a clue). There's also one point where it says that he 'switched his diet to the police', but he had already killed a cop a couple of pages earlier. Of all the planets, I wonder why it was assumed he was from Saturn? Did I miss something? The comments on the last page really made me think how far we've come in how we label and treat those with mental illness, though we still have a long way to go. Not my favourite story, but okay.
Regarding the art, is the limited colour palette used on purpose or was it just an artifact of the printing process? I guess it adds to the noir feel.
Cheers
QQ
And cheers to you QQ, for steeling your nerves enough to attempt Web of Evil! You make some interesting points about the credibility of the "creature," and they're not wrong. Who (or what) could make the pose in panel #1 page #8 if the truth of the creature's origin is correct? But I'm content to put that down to artistic license. One of the things that I like most is the creature's appearance in the background in the last three panels on page #6 and the first panel of page:#7, just a reminder to the viewer of the killer's constant threat. I gather the suggestion that the killer is from Saturn is reliant on an explanation put forward by an "expert" in panel #5 page #8, and you know how reliable expert opinions are!
What interests me is the fact that you'd challenge the plot holes in this story without questioning the Plastic Man story, which is basically one plot hole after another. But I can't say more without setting up a whole sequence of spoilers for those who haven't read anything yet!
Anyhow thanks again for taking the time to explore Jack Cole's work. I'm such a fan, and there are so many differing examples in CB+, that I hardly knew which tales to choose. Glad you found some things to interest you, and I look forward to hearing more from you later.
All the best
K1ngcat
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What interests me is the fact that you'd challenge the plot holes in this story without questioning the Plastic Man story, which is basically one plot hole after another. But I can't say more without setting up a whole sequence of spoilers for those who haven't read anything yet!
K1ngcat
Good question, K1ngcat. I'm a writer and editor (though not of comic books) and people pay me to do assessments of their novels and find plot holes. Actually, they don't think they're hiring me to find plot holes, but I often do - LOL It might be because the Plastic Man one is clearly in the fantasy realm. He literally stretches reality, so I'm not expecting it to fit together as logically as a more realistic story, as long as it's true to the genre. But you're right. I probably could have picked up plot holes. I guess I just went with the flow because my expectations were different. With the Creature from Saturn one, it starts out like sci-fi, but is set in a contemporary (for then) city and has more of a noir feel with a killer on the loose and the police trying to find the killer. So maybe for that reason, I was expecting it to be more logical. Or maybe my brain cells were just firing better when I read that one :D
Cheers
QQ
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Police Comics #11 and Web of Evil #3
I seem to be the only one getting these vibes...so maybe I'm totally off-base. But--
QQ talks about being creeped out by horror comics. Well, I'm creeped out by the three non-Midnight stories. I know one usually can't analyze an artist's personality just by looking at his work. There are exceptions, though. Fletcher Hanks comes to mind. When I'd finished these three stories I had the queasy feeling that Jack Cole was a seriously tortured soul.
I admit that my judgement is colored by my knowing his biography and about his suicide for reasons unknown. Nevertheless his scripts for "Killer from Saturn," "Goddess of Murder," and yes, even "The Brain of Simon Smythe," have a ferocious nihilism that other, gorier writers didn't. Harvey's stores were gross but mostly hack jobs. Feldstein's scripts offered gruesome images but they were tempered by a macabre sense of humor that suggested he didn't take them seriously. Cole took his stories very seriously.
Two of Cole's infamous crime stories, "Murder, Morphine and Me" and "Meet the Split," pair the same manic fury with even gorier scenes than those in these three stories. Cole is rightly honored for his storytelling innovations and wild imagination. But once having read these three stories, all I could think was, "This was one screwed-up dude."
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Wow, Jack Cole at Quality Comics! Truly a great selection, Kingcat!
If I manage to find the time I'll be glad to read those issues. Plenty of good stuff from Quality.
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Alright, Kingcat! Jack Cole! I waited until I had an afternoon off (today) so I could sit back and savour the stories. It was worth it.
Q.Q.: I didn’t read your comments until after, and I didn’t see the polar bear either. But, like you and Kingcat both say, there is so much going on during any story of Cole’s that you are dragged in whirlpool style until the end. Cole was always so intense that the panels in comic art barely seemed to be able to contain his action. And in action he excelled.
It’s really hard to demonstrate movement, kinetic force and speed in the comic format. A lot of times the attempts come out looking like still pictures.
Cole always could.
‘Crash, I agree with you. I think there was a tension in his life that translated to the page and I don’t know how or why somebody didn’t just put the paper down and ask; “Are you okay?”
I didn’t read ‘Murder, Morphine and Me” until the early 90’s, and I was still blown away by it’s emotional force. Can’t imagine what someone in the 50’s thought of it. Dr. Wertham went for that panel of the hypo going for the girls eye. But the people doubling over from gun shots like they had just been hit in the gut by a baseball bat also made you wince.
Okay, lets talk the three masterpieces we have today;
MIDNIGHT;
‘Animal husbandry pavillon’? Assorted G-strings? Cracked me up. And the old guy who wants to ‘take her out of this sort of life’. Priceless. Q.Q.; Eisner built in the teeny tiny mask as an inside joke about super heroes when he started The Spirit. His way of making fun of the fact that anybody with half a brain would be able to figure out Clark Kent and Superman were the same. Since this is Sprit 2.0 the gag goes with them.
PLASTIC MAN;
Holes in the plot? Who cares?? Cole straps you in the backseat, hits the gas, and just GOES. ‘Panther, as another fan of H.P. Lovecraft, this has to be one of the best answer stories to ’The Case of Charles Dexter Ward’ I ever read. Love the Wilkins/Smythe insults to the girls. Maybe Preston Sturges had weirder dialogue, but it would be close (“Meet Tad Wilkins, future ruler of the universe”, “Shake, what th’ racket?”) I think it was Sergio Aragones who used to go up to the Mad offices with the guys after a night out and take a magnifying glass and look at the lines on the old art by Wood and the rest. I wound up doing the same thing here.
KILLER FROM SATURN
Alright, TOP NOTCH horror comics! Nice art, nice delivery, and do you think Cole identified with the murderer? I don’t think I reading too much into that. “Goddess of Murder” was a nice second feature. The gnarly critter made-up for the screwball ending.
Great selections, KingCat. Really enjoyed them all.
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Good question, K1ngcat. I'm a writer and editor (though not of comic books) and people pay me to do assessments of their novels and find plot holes. Actually, they don't think they're hiring me to find plot holes, but I often do - LOL It might be because the Plastic Man one is clearly in the fantasy realm. He literally stretches reality, so I'm not expecting it to fit together as logically as a more realistic story, as long as it's true to the genre. But you're right. I probably could have picked up plot holes. I guess I just went with the flow because my expectations were different. With the Creature from Saturn one, it starts out like sci-fi, but is set in a contemporary (for then) city and has more of a noir feel with a killer on the loose and the police trying to find the killer. So maybe for that reason, I was expecting it to be more logical. Or maybe my brain cells were just firing better when I read that one :D
Cheers
QQ
Well thanks to confirming that, QQ, I had an idea that the semi-real, noir approach of the Killer from Saturn set it aside from the wild ride that Cole gave Plastic Man. I was just trying to choose examples that showed how much his style changed over the years and as I'm a gigantic fan it was a difficult choice. If anything that I chose appealed to you, I'd heartily recommend following it up, his talent was gigantic IMHO.
Thanks for biting the bullet and reading Web Of Evil, Cole had quite a number of stories in that title too.
All the best
K1ngcat
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Alright, Kingcat! Jack Cole! I waited until I had an afternoon off (today) so I could sit back and savour the stories. It was worth it.
Q.Q.: I didn’t read your comments until after, and I didn’t see the polar bear either. But, like you and Kingcat both say, there is so much going on during any story of Cole’s that you are dragged in whirlpool style until the end. Cole was always so intense that the panels in comic art barely seemed to be able to contain his action. And in action he excelled.
It’s really hard to demonstrate movement, kinetic force and speed in the comic format. A lot of times the attempts come out looking like still pictures.
Cole always could.
‘Crash, I agree with you. I think there was a tension in his life that translated to the page and I don’t know how or why somebody didn’t just put the paper down and ask; “Are you okay?”
I didn’t read ‘Murder, Morphine and Me” until the early 90’s, and I was still blown away by it’s emotional force. Can’t imagine what someone in the 50’s thought of it. Dr. Wertham went for that panel of the hypo going for the girls eye. But the people doubling over from gun shots like they had just been hit in the gut by a baseball bat also made you wince.
Okay, lets talk the three masterpieces we have today;
MIDNIGHT;
‘Animal husbandry pavillon’? Assorted G-strings? Cracked me up. And the old guy who wants to ‘take her out of this sort of life’. Priceless. Q.Q.; Eisner built in the teeny tiny mask as an inside joke about super heroes when he started The Spirit. His way of making fun of the fact that anybody with half a brain would be able to figure out Clark Kent and Superman were the same. Since this is Sprit 2.0 the gag goes with them.
PLASTIC MAN;
Holes in the plot? Who cares?? Cole straps you in the backseat, hits the gas, and just GOES. ‘Panther, as another fan of H.P. Lovecraft, this has to be one of the best answer stories to ’The Case of Charles Dexter Ward’ I ever read. Love the Wilkins/Smythe insults to the girls. Maybe Preston Sturges had weirder dialogue, but it would be close (“Meet Tad Wilkins, future ruler of the universe”, “Shake, what th’ racket?”) I think it was Sergio Aragones who used to go up to the Mad offices with the guys after a night out and take a magnifying glass and look at the lines on the old art by Wood and the rest. I wound up doing the same thing here.
KILLER FROM SATURN
Alright, TOP NOTCH horror comics! Nice art, nice delivery, and do you think Cole identified with the murderer? I don’t think I reading too much into that. “Goddess of Murder” was a nice second feature. The gnarly critter made-up for the screwball ending.
Great selections, KingCat. Really enjoyed them all.
Thanks Morgus, I'm glad you did. I figured someone had to introduce Jack to the reading group, and I drew myself the short straw!
Yes I have a suspicion that Cole might've identified with the murderer in The Killer From Saturn. He was a four-eyed nerd with a stutter who suffered the burden of infertility in an age before IVF and Surrogacy gave more choice to childless couples. I know suicide was a theme that came up in many of his stories, and I know I remember a Plastic Man story where Plas was left alone musing over what it would be like to have a child (maybe someone can pinpoint it for me?)
I was already aware of Murder, Morphine and Me, thanks for suggesting Meet The Split, which has the same manic energy. Maybe Cole was bipolar? As crash points out, he may have been a sick puppy, but he was also a tremendous innovator who brought a whole new kind of talent to the "funny papers" and he was keen to improve and hone his abilities. Perhaps he needed the validation of popularity and praise to keep his negative feelings at bay?
I'm sure I'm not the only one who wishes the contents of his suicide note had been made public, it was a tragedy that may have been averted if anyone had asked. "Yeah, Jack, but how do you feel?"
Hadn't considered the Lovecraftian tendencies in The Brain Of Cyrus Smythe, tho as a Lovecraft fan perhaps I should've. Thanks for your insight, glad you enjoyed my choices.
All the best
K1ngcat
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Police Comics #11
Plastic Man
Fun, zany story.
Dewey Drip
While I'm tempted to call this bad it's probably more below average. The art's okay. Some of the humor bits are trying to be funny and seem a little different from similar things I've read, but even if it had worked it wouldn't have been very funny.
711
Eh, the premise of this series tends to hold back the stories. Maybe if it were just a story of a guard trying to stop the Runt it would work better, as it is the guards look incompetent as a costumed guy runs through the halls without being seen or questioned. As it is it might have been more dramatic if the Runt hadn't died, but used his knowledge of 711's identity as a form of blackmail in future stories. Ah, well. So-so story.
The Human Bomb
Ummmm, interesting, but while I did laugh at the punchline the switch of the guy from villain to potential hero really seemed to come out of nowhere. He should pay the price for destroying those buildings.
Steele Kerrigan
Not bad. By the way, how strong is Kerrigan and/or how light were tires in those days? He tosses those things like they were hula hoops, whereas a modern day tire is much heavier.
Manhunter
Okay.
Burp the Twerp
Yeaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh... Easy to see why no one would sign their name on this story.
The Spirit
Pretty good. Admittedly Eisner had been creating comic book characters for comics so making one for a newspaper insert was probably second nature at this point, so he knew what worked.
The Monster of the Swamps
Okay.
Super Snooper
Another example of humor-like product. They were rationing humor during the war, so they created something that looked like humor, but wasn't actually funny. ;)
Firebrand
Okay.
Produce the Body
Sooooo... none of the people who lived there for years knew about the quicksand??? Maybe if there had been mention of the river recently changing course or something to explain why a natural hazard was unknown to the people who lived there.
The Mouthpiece
A little overly simplistic. Odd to see an actual death by electric chair in a comic (at least, I don't recall seeing it in comics I've read. Maybe it's more common in comics I don't read.)
Phantom Lady
Okay.
It's funny, since this was the first issue to have the Spirit I looked at the previous cover and saw that his headshot replaced Firebrand's. Which is funny because Firebrand was the original star of Police Comics, but also, they left 711's headshot. Are they seriously saying that 711 was more popular than Firebrand??? :o
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One thing I've always hated about The Midnight stories is the fact that the series' creator (or his boss) wanted Midnight's sidekick (as a parody of The Spirit's sidekick, Ebony) to be a talking (erect, Humanlike) monkey. That is just what the most hateful racist bigots thought of African-Americans, and portrayed them as such, in derogatory cartoons. I can understand a comic book company wanting to run a parody series of a successful newspaper strip in their books. I wonder if Busy Arnold was a bigot? And, the ultra-liberal Will Eisner, worked for Arnold, and "The Spirit" comic book series (of newspaper reprints) was even published by Arnold. I wonder what Eisner thought of that parody series?
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Police Comics #11 and Web of Evil #3
I seem to be the only one getting these vibes...so maybe I'm totally off-base. But--
QQ talks about being creeped out by horror comics. Well, I'm creeped out by the three non-Midnight stories. I know one usually can't analyze an artist's personality just by looking at his work. There are exceptions, though. Fletcher Hanks comes to mind. When I'd finished these three stories I had the queasy feeling that Jack Cole was a seriously tortured soul.
Hi Crash
You're not the only one getting those vibes. The three non-Midnight stories were all tales of revenge, which I'm never crazy about in any genre. I didn't mind the Plastic Man one because his strange antics added a bit of the ridiculous (in a good way), which took the edge off the dark storyline for me, though not my favourite. The Creature from Saturn had a bit of a noir feel, which I don't mind, but again not a favourite. The Kali one was very dark and I struggled to get to the end of that one. I don't know enough about Cole to know if these are representative of his work. I can appreciate his artistic ability, but it's not the style I would want to spend a lot of time looking at. The Bovine one was more fun and I enjoyed the whimsical art more.
Cheers
QQ
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Q.Q.; Eisner built in the teeny tiny mask as an inside joke about super heroes when he started The Spirit. His way of making fun of the fact that anybody with half a brain would be able to figure out Clark Kent and Superman were the same. Since this is Sprit 2.0 the gag goes with them.
Thanks for that, Morgus. That makes sense. I'm currently reading through my 500-page Batgirl omnibus that collects Barbara Gordon comics from the 1960s and 1970s. I'm about halfway through and have just read the one where Commissioner Gordon realises his daughter is Batgirl, but doesn't let on that he knows. My faith in him is restored. How could he not know? Those domino masks don't hide a thing. They even call her the Domino Doll.
I also have a Lois Lane compilation, as well as early Superman volumes, and I think she at least suspected Clark and Superman might be one in the same, though the big reveal wasn't until much later. Though Superman's storyline has been re-imagined so many times, I've lost track of what Lois knew in which reincarnation.
Cheers
QQ
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One thing I've always hated about The Midnight stories is the fact that the series' creator (or his boss) wanted Midnight's sidekick (as a parody of The Spirit's sidekick, Ebony) to be a talking (erect, Humanlike) monkey. That is just what the most hateful racist bigots thought of African-Americans, and portrayed them as such, in derogatory cartoons. I can understand a comic book company wanting to run a parody series of a successful newspaper strip in their books. I wonder if Busy Arnold was a bigot? And, the ultra-liberal Will Eisner, worked for Arnold, and "The Spirit" comic book series (of newspaper reprints) was even published by Arnold. I wonder what Eisner thought of that parody series?
Interesting point, Robb. I remember we did a Spirit one last year and I thought Ebony actually was a stereotypically-drawn African-American. I didn't like the way he was represented, as it seemed very racist, but then I read up a bit on the Spirit and realised he was supposed to be a monkey. Was he drawn that way on purpose? The monkey in the Midnight story for this selection looked more like a real monkey to me, so I didn't occur to me that it might be parody.
Cheers
QQ
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Robb, that just slid past me. Too many years watching PLANET OF THE APES, where the apes had the best lines. And one of my fave youtube videos of all time is the Chimp Channel parody of THE ANDY GRIFFITH SHOW. (“...oohh..corn squeezings...”) And between Krypto the dog thinking fully human thoughts, Supergirls cat Mr. Ed, and who knows how many other talking animals, I just went with it.
But yeah, point taken.
By the way folks, disclaimer time. As a psych nurse I probably should have to mention that if you or anybody you know are dealing with suicidal thoughts you should seek help to feel better. One of the nastiest side effects is that you start to feel it’s the normal way to be. Not so. Please seek help. Like they used to say on the late night TV commercials; ‘operators are standing by.'
We lose about one staff member every other year, give or take. And as in the case of Jack Cole, a lot of times you don’t see it coming. And asking ‘are you alright?’ or the more direct ‘Are you having feelings of self harm?” is not going to make them do it. Modern research indicates it may give them an escape valve and exit ramp off the thought process they don’t think they can escape.
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I remember we did a Spirit one last year and I thought Ebony actually was a stereotypically-drawn African-American. I didn't like the way he was represented, as it seemed very racist, but then I read up a bit on the Spirit and realised he was supposed to be a monkey. Was he drawn that way on purpose? The monkey in the Midnight story for this selection looked more like a real monkey to me, so I didn't occur to me that it might be parody.
To the best of my knowledge Ebony White was never intended to be a monkey. He certainly isn't a monkey in the Spirit strips. He's a racial caricature of a Black person. The resemblance to monkeys was built into the stereotype.
As someone has pointed out, Jack Cole was specifically instructed to imitate The Spirit. The Spirit had a comical Black sidekick; what's the closest we can get to that? I know, a monkey! Make him a talking monkey. Who knows if it was Arnold or Cole who came up with the idea? It probably seemed like a natural choice.
There were those at the time who objected to Ebony's portrayal, but they seldom got a hearing. In his later years Will Eisner tried to rehabilitate Ebony. He softened the physical caricature somewhat. He made Ebony's behavior and speech more normal. But he never could bring himself to admit the truth: Ebony was a racist stereotype that Eisner bears responsibility for creating.
The well-worn "those were different times" mantra has some truth but it only takes us so far. First, it absolves those who produced racist stuff of responsibility for their choices. "Everybody did it, it didn't hurt anybody, things are different now."
Second, the "those were different times" excuse suggests that racism, religious hatred, etc. are all in the past so we don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't know how it is in members' home countries, but here in the US the latest crop of neofascist politicians are aggressively pushing the same old tropes: the evils of commies, Jews, intellectuals, and dark-skinned people. Banning books, kicking out legislators, even criminalizing any suggestion that America has anything in its past for which it should make amends. It would be laughable that all this is being done in the name of Freedom, if it weren't so serious. Meanwhile that the book burners and vote suppressors are the same folk who whine endlessly about "cancel culture" and "censorship from the Left."
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I remember we did a Spirit one last year and I thought Ebony actually was a stereotypically-drawn African-American. I didn't like the way he was represented, as it seemed very racist, but then I read up a bit on the Spirit and realised he was supposed to be a monkey. Was he drawn that way on purpose? The monkey in the Midnight story for this selection looked more like a real monkey to me, so I didn't occur to me that it might be parody.
To the best of my knowledge Ebony White was never intended to be a monkey. He certainly isn't a monkey in the Spirit strips. He's a racial caricature of a Black person. The resemblance to monkeys was built into the stereotype.[/b]
As someone has pointed out, Jack Cole was specifically instructed to imitate The Spirit. The Spirit had a comical Black sidekick; what's the closest we can get to that? I know, a monkey! Make him a talking monkey. Who knows if it was Arnold or Cole who came up with the idea? It probably seemed like a natural choice.
There were those at the time who objected to Ebony's portrayal, but they seldom got a hearing. In his later years Will Eisner tried to rehabilitate Ebony. He softened the physical caricature somewhat. He made Ebony's behavior and speech more normal. But he never could bring himself to admit the truth: Ebony was a racist stereotype that Eisner bears responsibility for creating.
The well-worn "those were different times" mantra has some truth but it only takes us so far. First, it absolves those who produced racist stuff of responsibility for their choices. "Everybody did it, it didn't hurt anybody, things are different now."
Second, the "those were different times" excuse suggests that racism, religious hatred, etc. are all in the past so we don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't know how it is in members' home countries, but here in the US the latest crop of neofascist politicians are aggressively pushing the same old tropes: the evils of commies, Jews, intellectuals, and dark-skinned people. Banning books, kicking out legislators, even criminalizing any suggestion that America has anything in its past for which it should make amends. It would be laughable that all this is being done in the name of Freedom, if it weren't so serious. Meanwhile that the book burners and vote suppressors are the same folk who whine endlessly about "cancel culture" and "censorship from the Left."
I was around during the late '40s, and even Jews among my family members didn't mind the racist stereotyping. Being a Mal-treated people for the past 2,000 years +, you'd think they should have known better. I surmised that Cole was ordered to make Midnight a parody of The Spirit. He could have done so, without allowing the monkey to talk. He could have just made him a very intelligent monkey, who could communicate with monkey noises, gestures, body language, and facial expression, like most of the Italian organ-grinder monkeys in comics gags and stories. Then, The Midnight series could have still been an obvious parody, but not an almost-exact carbon copy.
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Smash Comics #72
Midnight
Funny. :)
Daffy
Also funny.
Black X
Even in comics they can't resist fruit cart scenes. (Many years ago film critics Siskel & Ebert complained about film cliches, one was the scene where cars run into fruit carts.) Okay story.
Lady Luck
Did the Treasury Department hire Lady Luck to do their job for them? We don't see one Treasury agent in this whole story. Otherwise okay story.
Batch Bachelor
Okay, but nothing special.
This is the Bird
Eh, not a terrible text story, but nothing special.
Spunky
Humor-like product. How old are Spunky and his friends? It's like the artist couldn't decide if he wanted to draw children or adults and tried to split the difference.
The Jester
How does officer Lane hide that costume under his police uniform without bulges to give it away? Otherwise okay.
How Joe's Body Brought Him Fame Instead of Shame
Or how to impress chicks by beating guys up. ;)
Outwitting the Kidnappers
Wow, what a bike, jet-propelled, and with a radio, and the guy's got a device that'll stop cars dead (hope those other drivers weren't in a hurry or had pacemakers), but this really could have used more pages to flesh out the story. ;)
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To the best of my knowledge Ebony White was never intended to be a monkey. He certainly isn't a monkey in the Spirit strips. He's a racial caricature of a Black person. The resemblance to monkeys was built into the stereotype.
As someone has pointed out, Jack Cole was specifically instructed to imitate The Spirit. The Spirit had a comical Black sidekick; what's the closest we can get to that? I know, a monkey! Make him a talking monkey. Who knows if it was Arnold or Cole who came up with the idea? It probably seemed like a natural choice.
There were those at the time who objected to Ebony's portrayal, but they seldom got a hearing. In his later years Will Eisner tried to rehabilitate Ebony. He softened the physical caricature somewhat. He made Ebony's behavior and speech more normal. But he never could bring himself to admit the truth: Ebony was a racist stereotype that Eisner bears responsibility for creating.
The well-worn "those were different times" mantra has some truth but it only takes us so far. First, it absolves those who produced racist stuff of responsibility for their choices. "Everybody did it, it didn't hurt anybody, things are different now."
Second, the "those were different times" excuse suggests that racism, religious hatred, etc. are all in the past so we don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't know how it is in members' home countries, but here in the US the latest crop of neofascist politicians are aggressively pushing the same old tropes: the evils of commies, Jews, intellectuals, and dark-skinned people. Banning books, kicking out legislators, even criminalizing any suggestion that America has anything in its past for which it should make amends. It would be laughable that all this is being done in the name of Freedom, if it weren't so serious. Meanwhile that the book burners and vote suppressors are the same folk who whine endlessly about "cancel culture" and "censorship from the Left."
Thanks for clearing that up, Crash. I went back and looked at the comments from the earlier Spirit one we did, and I now realise I had misremembered the discussion. Back then, I had thought Ebony was a talking monkey and didn't realise he was meant to be a person until I read other people's comments. That makes it even worse. Even for the time, it was a really derogatory representation. As I'm not as familiar with Spirit and Midnight as some of you, I missed the parody aspect in the Midnight one. I just accepted it as a talking monkey, as lots of comics have talking animals.
Cheers
QQ
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I also have a Lois Lane compilation, as well as early Superman volumes, and I think she at least suspected Clark and Superman might be one in the same
In a 1942 Superman comic strip, a film producer sees the resemblance between Clark and Superman and Lois says, "Well... I must admit there is a slight resemblance, if you stretch your imagination to it's greatest extent."
In the same year in Superman #17 (Man Or Superman) is when Lois first suspects Clark & Superman are the same person.
Personally I like the idea that psychologically Lois doesn't want to believe that that drip Clark Kent could possibly be the exciting Superman which is why she always accepts whatever evidence Superman comes up with to prove he and Clark aren't the same whenever she tries to prove they are. (Whether or not any writer was thinking that, I couldn't say.)
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Personally I like the idea that psychologically Lois doesn't want to believe that that drip Clark Kent could possibly be the exciting Superman which is why she always accepts whatever evidence Superman comes up with to prove he and Clark aren't the same whenever she tries to prove they are. (Whether or not any writer was thinking that, I couldn't say.)
I think you have hit the nail on the head here, Scrounge.
Unfortunately, that is how the human mind tends to work more often than not.
Which is part of the reason why we can be so easily hoodwinked.
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To the best of my knowledge Ebony White was never intended to be a monkey. He certainly isn't a monkey in the Spirit strips. He's a racial caricature of a Black person. The resemblance to monkeys was built into the stereotype.
As someone has pointed out, Jack Cole was specifically instructed to imitate The Spirit. The Spirit had a comical Black sidekick; what's the closest we can get to that? I know, a monkey! Make him a talking monkey. Who knows if it was Arnold or Cole who came up with the idea? It probably seemed like a natural choice.
There were those at the time who objected to Ebony's portrayal, but they seldom got a hearing. In his later years Will Eisner tried to rehabilitate Ebony. He softened the physical caricature somewhat. He made Ebony's behavior and speech more normal. But he never could bring himself to admit the truth: Ebony was a racist stereotype that Eisner bears responsibility for creating.
The well-worn "those were different times" mantra has some truth but it only takes us so far. First, it absolves those who produced racist stuff of responsibility for their choices. "Everybody did it, it didn't hurt anybody, things are different now."
Second, the "those were different times" excuse suggests that racism, religious hatred, etc. are all in the past so we don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't know how it is in members' home countries, but here in the US the latest crop of neofascist politicians are aggressively pushing the same old tropes: the evils of commies, Jews, intellectuals, and dark-skinned people. Banning books, kicking out legislators, even criminalizing any suggestion that America has anything in its past for which it should make amends. It would be laughable that all this is being done in the name of Freedom, if it weren't so serious. Meanwhile that the book burners and vote suppressors are the same folk who whine endlessly about "cancel culture" and "censorship from the Left."
Sorry to say, I think you nailed it there, crash. However benign Eisner's intentions, Ebony White was still a racist stereotype, as was Chop Chop in Blackhawk. And although that kind of casual racism was a reflection of the times he lived in, the times we live in now aren't necessarily a great deal better. The UK has been learning bad lessons from across the pond, limiting voting by introducing requirements for photo ID, planning to ship immigrants out to other countries or housing them in giant barges offshore, and trying to pass laws that prevent refugees reaching the UK in small boats from even claiming asylum. Speak out against these wrongs and you're a snowflake, a bleeding heart, or worst of all "woke."
The lesson used to be that if you don't learn from history then you're doomed to repeat it, but nobody seems to be taking any notice.
Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, sometimes it's nice to feel I'm not alone!
All the best
K1ngcat
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In a 1942 Superman comic strip, a film producer sees the resemblance between Clark and Superman and Lois says, "Well... I must admit there is a slight resemblance, if you stretch your imagination to it's greatest extent."
Until this discussion came along I'd completely forgotten one of the stranger reasons that nobody recognizes a superhero. Supposedly Jay Garrick--the original Golden Age tin-hat Flash--didn't need to wear a mask because when dressed as The Flash he subconsciously vibrated his facial atoms and no one could see his features clearly.
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The biggest difficulty in moderating this forum is in well, Moderating it! In the sense of the Macquarie concise dictionary's definition.
"Keep or keeping within due bounds, not extreme, excessive or intense"
"To make less violent, severe, intense or rigorous."
And that includes moderating myself.
We live in a time of strong emotions, and a time when it's too easy to express an opinion and have a disagreement which causes people to ostracize each other.
To that end, a good rule of thumb would be to keep to discussing what is directly relatable to the books being discussed and to be careful about widening the discussion and being dogmatic about opinions which might be likely to be contrary to the opinions or understandings - honestly held - by others.
That inevitably leads to an environment where we cannot and will not talk to each other.
That said, I feel forced to make an exception - as in 'the exception proves the rule'.
I find myself on the opposite side of the argument that Kingcat expressed.
And since that opinion was expressed in the open forum, I intend to express my opinion in the next post.
That said, I have no desire to make an enemy or foe of you, Kingcat, that's not my intention.
I grew up in the fifties, when a common viewpoint, which I still hold to, was,
"I don't agree with a word you say, but I am prepared to fight to the death for your right to say it"
Lastly, can any responses to both our posts be restricted to PMs - private messages, and not posted in the open Forum.
Thank you!
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The UK has been learning bad lessons from across the pond, limiting voting by introducing requirements for photo ID, planning to ship immigrants out to other countries or housing them in giant barges offshore, and trying to pass laws that prevent refugees reaching the UK in small boats from even claiming asylum.
These media-generated wrongs don't stand up under examination.
The best way to manipulate someone is to appeal to their sense of self-righteousness.
[b]limiting voting by introducing requirements for photo ID,[/b]
The media tells us that's a bad thing. Based on the assumption that nobody would ever want to win an election by cheating. Try, 'attempting to ensure voting is kept honest and sensibly regulated.' And how exactly does that limit honest voting? When every person and his dog has a smart-phone with two cameras?
And what gives you the idea that that is imported from the US? No Democratic state does this, in fact they give the vote to anybody who applies - without ID required.
'planning to ship immigrants out to other countries' Isn't that exactly what the countries that are sending the immigrants to the 'West' are doing?
housing them in giant barges offshore,
Maybe because someone [ultimately the tax-payer] has to build and pay for accommodation? Not a new idea tho. That's what the British public service did with their convicts when there was an excess of them before they sent them to Australia. Those were called, 'Hulks.'
Haven't heard that one before. I have heard tho, that they are housing them in Hotels in places like Edinburgh and New York, to name two.Or sending them out to small villages where their numbers overwhelm the locals.
Trying to pass laws that prevent refugees reaching the UK in small boats from even claiming asylum.
The government's first duty is to look after your interests, not the interests of non-citizens who aren't tax-payers or residents.
The 'small boats'? the 'Asylum seekers' come through Europe - funneled through France. The boats are supplied when they reach the channel. I've seen photographs of the boats.
The media and middle-class musicians and actors - who would never take a refugee into their house ever - spend money to propagandize that all migrants are sufferers who need help.
Those TV ads costs money, a lot of it. So who finances them, and what is their motivation? And why don't they spend all that money directly on 'the asylum-seekers'? Most asylum seekers do in fact, have money and have used it to leave their own country and arrive here. People-smuggling is a business.
"asylum seekers' include criminals and terrorists.
One of the regular jobs at the borders is identifying these and sending them back home. It's a big job.
Also, the bulk of them are not women and children, but men of working age. Although - they deliberately send children unaccompanied - some [more than you imagine] are trafficked, others are claimed later, to enable the adults to claim that they have a family resident in the country.
But most important, do you have any idea just what an economic and financial burden the large numbers - and they are large numbers - of unvetted and uninvited migrants are to the countries that are forced to accept them.
I believe that your NHS is in dire financial trouble - as is our equivalent - how is the daily adding to the numbers entitled to NHS services help the situation?
Do I think there should be no migration? No, that would make me a hypocrite, as everybody in Australia is descended from migrants [Including the Aboriginal people as DNA shows their ancestors came from Africa via South India]
I myself am related, by blood and by marriage am related to people from 4 continents. And I hate feeling the need to say that, I would rather shut up about it than blow my own trumpet.
Actually, we live in a time of many huge population movements.
It's understandable that there are currently large numbers of Ukrainians fleeing war and large numbers of Russians fleeing national service coming into and being accepted by the UK and Europe. In the US there are movements, not just of populations but of major businesses and corporations to Texas and California. You will have to look hard to find it, but there is a movement of 'People of Colour' out of the Northern States - to escape gun violence and lack of opportunity - back to the Southern States.
Also, I was forgetting that these avenues into Western Countries are being used to import drugs in massive quantities.
Curiously, I couldn’t access much current information on this.
Apparently the BBC hasn’t posted anything on Fentanyl since 2020
Curiouser and Curiouser.
Fentanyl deaths on rise in UK, drug report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50989633
US fentanyl-related deaths more than tripled over five years
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-fentanyl-related-deaths-more-than-tripled-over-5-years-2023-05-03/
I have read reliable reports that illegal immigration and the import of fentanyl are related in the US, It’s most likely that it is also the case in the UK and Australia.
Here is the official UK government policy.
Reasonable and neutral.
Risks of illegal migration to the UK
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/risks-of-illegal-migration-to-the-uk
Should have just posted the link below – makes the same points I make.
Tackling myths factsheet: Illegal Migration Bill
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/illegal-migration-bill-factsheets/tackling-myths-factsheet-illegal-migration-bill
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I'm normally not happy when we drift into politics, religion or moral attitudes, but so far in this section we seem to be staying reasonably amicable. So I will comment. On the photo id to vote, it's a piece of political vandalism by the present government which is supposed to bring safer elections and stop voter fraud. Oddly, there is virtually no voter fraud in the UK. Not everyone has a mobile phone and this act will certainly exclude many people from their right to vote. The poor especially. The UK has high poverty levels, which are increasing.
I believe this act is a disgrace and an attempt to keep the tories in power, using voter fraud as an excuse - a threat that doesn't exist to any measurable extent here. We do not have the problem of "vote early, vote often"
Back to the comics, please.
I have to admit that as a youngster reading Blackhawk and, later, The Spirit, it never occurred to me that the depiction of Ebony or Chop-Chop was racist.
Our story papers regularly featured stories and strips with orientals, people of colour, Irish, Jews, Germans and Japanese as what I now know to be racist stereotypes. So many disparaging terms for and racial slurs about Scots.
Click for a front page of Sparky from 1965
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ar4bsCXmHOo/T8MSl0DY4aI/AAAAAAAADRs/zDnoHyFlJqM/s1600/sparkycover.jpg (https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ar4bsCXmHOo/T8MSl0DY4aI/AAAAAAAADRs/zDnoHyFlJqM/s1600/sparkycover.jpg)
Spadger's Isle :-
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_saokEWen78c/TCWXu_9z1pI/AAAAAAAACKA/Uf69sPaQNj0/s1600/tara0012.jpg (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_saokEWen78c/TCWXu_9z1pI/AAAAAAAACKA/Uf69sPaQNj0/s1600/tara0012.jpg)
None of this stops me enjoying The Spirit or Midnight or Plastic Man.
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I am with Paw ... I prefer we give politics a swerve, I also agree with his other comments. Voter fraud is just not an issue in the slightest.
I would also point out that the NHS is crumbling not due to asylum seekers, which is frankly an absurd notion. It is caused through years of chronic underfunding.
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Okay, this one is going to take a minute. There is a chance that some of our offshore readers might not have seen Charlie Callas before, and for this to be funny, you'll need to look him up. I've added this after Gordon Lightfoot died here in Canada earlier this week and people my own age had NOT heard of him. So, I'm taking no chances. Once you get a picture in your mind, keep going.
So, the wife and I are sitting around the other nigtht and I read 'Crash's line about 'Tin Hat' Flash moving his face to avoid detection. Makes me break up. I mean plot wise, this is as brave as anything Edgar Rice Burroughs ever came up with.
Wife was watching some vintage variety show on TV that had Charlie Callas on and started to laugh too. She figured the guy would HAVE to look like Callas as a matter of course. Now we're both killing ourselves. You know, Charlie Callas as Tin Hat Flash.
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Web of Evil #3
The Killer From Saturn
Interesting, although you'd think his first victim would have been his boss.
Vengeance of the Red Ghost
Okay.
Goddess of Murder
Interesting.
House of Horror
Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.
The Beast From Beyond
So how did the men inside the dragon costume avoid being hurt by the guns? The way the dragon left tracks and had bullet proof skin implies some kind of mechanical creation, which would be expensive, more than they would get from finding their boss's money.
Not as good as the previous books. Didn't really notice much of Jack Cole's work in his supposed stories.
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I am with Paw ... I prefer we give politics a swerve, I also agree with his other comments. Voter fraud is just not an issue in the slightest.
I would also point out that the NHS is crumbling not due to asylum seekers, which is frankly an absurd notion. It is caused through years of chronic underfunding.
Sorry Boss, my bad. Mea Maxima culpa. :(
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Web of Evil #3
The Killer From Saturn
Interesting, although you'd think his first victim would have been his boss.
Vengeance of the Red Ghost
Okay.
Goddess of Murder
Interesting.
House of Horror
Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.
The Beast From Beyond
So how did the men inside the dragon costume avoid being hurt by the guns? The way the dragon left tracks and had bullet proof skin implies some kind of mechanical creation, which would be expensive, more than they would get from finding their boss's money.
Not as good as the previous books. Didn't really notice much of Jack Cole's work in his supposed stories.
Hi Scrounge, I'd like to thank you for clinging steadfastly to reviewing the comics and not getting swept away by emotions like I did. :'(
I must admit the tales in Web Of Evil just scream "Cole" to me, maybe that's a sign of his changing style, but knowing my luck some expert will come forward with irrefutable proof that they're drawn by Andre LeBlanc, Alex Kotzky or John Spranger.
I agree with most of your other assessments, tho on 711 I find the whole premise doubtful. Having got himself a life sentence as a favour to a friend, he digs his way out of prison, but rather than escape he goes back to his cell, knits himself a nifty costume out of who knows what, and goes on to fight evil under the same name as his prison number and no-one except The Runt twigs it. Seems unlikely to me.
And BTW, the artist/writer who doesn't sign his name to Burp the Twerp is none other than our old pal Jack Cole. How unlikely is that! :o
Thanks again for your input
All the best
K1ngcat
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Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.
This struck me odd when I read the stories. The monster story in particular reminded me of DC's early 60s weird mags like Unexpected and House of Secrets. Every monster or alien, however outlandish, turned out to be a hoax with a credulity-straining explanation that was more outlandish than the monster. I always figured this was because DC was afraid that real monsters might offend the Comics Code. Yet the Code had no problems with the monsters over at Atlas/Marvel.
The hoax explanation in the Saturn monster story was a wee bit more acceptable since it fitted the villain's obsession with being big and powerful. It was still hard to believe the guy standing on stilts and using arm extenders would be able to keep his balance while attacking his victims.
One other thing about that story. When I saw the splash page I thought, "That looks like a Kirby Monster splash!" The composition, posing, and character design looked like something The King would have done.
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Sorry Boss, my bad. Mea Maxima culpa. :(
As we all are lol
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Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
By the way, all I could think of when I saw the beast in GODDESS OF EVIL was...Venom! A lost cousin? I get what you mean by the Jack Kirby look a like thing. I can almost see Busy Arnold telling Jack Cole to give him something that looked like Kirby's work, but without the headache of trying to make a decent offer to Kirby.
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Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
By the way, all I could think of when I saw the beast in GODDESS OF EVIL was...Venom! A lost cousin? I get what you mean by the Jack Kirby look a like thing. I can almost see Busy Arnold telling Jack Cole to give him something that looked like Kirby's work, but without the headache of trying to make a decent offer to Kirby.
Venom? Yeah, I can see the similarity. The plot is okay , the art's cool , but I wonder how much bite those jaws could have had if they were only part of a disguise. Sometimes it's best not to look too hard at the practicalities!
All the best
K1ngcat
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Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
I was helping a young teenage girl with reading and she loves comic books, including Scooby Doo. I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary. LOL I usually settled for the 'Scooby Doo Mysteries', which were a bit more innocuous. She probably would have loved the scary ones :D
Cheers
QQ
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Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
I started to write a post about this, and I would have finished it, too, if it wasn't for those blasted kids.
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I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary.
You should probably steer clear of DC's Scooby Apocalypse where, for some insane reason, they decided to put the Scooby characters in a post-apocalyptic world.
I suspect either drugs, or sales of the Archie horror books, was the inspiration.
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I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary.
You should probably steer clear of DC's Scooby Apocalypse where, for some insane reason, they decided to put the Scooby characters in a post-apocalyptic world.
I suspect either drugs, or sales of the Archie horror books, was the inspiration.
LOL - Thanks for the heads-up, SuperScrounge. Regular Archie and Scooby Doo Mysteries for me :D
Cheers
QQ
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Hey King, (or anybody else); is there a decently priced collection of Jack Cole’s work for PLAYBOY? I remember being really frustrated by the lack of a decent collection for Kurtzman/Elder’s ANNIE FANNY until Dark Horse stepped up to the plate.
Yeah, good line, ‘Crash. (Pull of the rubber mask) Those darned kids ruin it every time.
Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing
When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.
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Police Comics # 11 - The Brain of Cyrus Smythe
Dr. Smythe was, apparently, a scientist of the ilk of Dr. Frankenstein, who went where Man shouldn't go, trying to "create" life, and made a large, strong monster of sorts. But, The Devil, or the automatic punishment for doing evil, got to Smythe, by having him fall, knock over his self-made, flammable chemicals, starting a fire, which burned down his house, consuming all his evil work. The story hints at taking place around 1642 AD. Yet, The Narrator states that it occurred during The City of London's "infancy". Actually, London's infancy took place BEFORE even The Romans set foot on Britain's shores in 44 B.C.E. It had first been a Keltic (Brythonic) village, and later, market town.
This story used many narrow panels, a configuration which gave it the desired agitated mood, worthy of a vengeful madman's point of view, and affect on the reader. And the arbitrary colouring helped add to that mood. However, both of those tactics hurt my ability to read the story. It felt VERY cramped at 9 squashed pages, of helter-skelter action. The first single-splash panel page was appropriate. But, after that the pages averaged almost exactly 13 panels each. Nine pages of the standard 3-tier 6-panel format would have resulted in just 54 panels, instead of 117. A less crammed more open version, would have taken up 19 pages (a pace more to my liking). Even allowing for some 4-5 pages of crammed agitation approaching the climax, a page count of 15, rather than 9, would have better suited my tastes.
The story plot, itself, with the soul of the villain waiting for a body to use to wreak vengeance upon all Mankind (misplaced) was an entertaining one, and held my interest. It seems that the powers which make the "monster's body" grow are unexplained. I often prefer some attempt at explanation of physically impossible events by use of pseudo-science, even if seemingly ridiculous (and insulting). But, this was typical of how that was handled during the 1940s.
Smash Comics 72 - Midnight - Angela, The Beautiful Bovine
This slapstick, but clever, comedy story is much more my style, despite being a weak parody of Eisner's "Spirit", as I am mainly a comedy fan. Of course, the deliberately sorely exaggerated "stereotypes" of Eisner's comic storytelling devices, such as the extreme camera angles, and obvious overlooking of clues by the Inspector, and pet peeves of The Spirit's (Midnight's) sidekick (Gabby), and the Spirit's disguise (tiny mask) being his alter-ego's only way of not being discovered, seen through by no-one, are battered to death in this parody. But, it is, nevertheless, very entertaining, especially due to the light-hearted comedic style of the artwork, and silliness of the plot.
Web of Evil 3 - The Killer From Saturn
I like that this semi-realistic story is based on a strong plot, about a meek man, dominated and pushed around all his life by others, who vows to wreak his pent-up vengeance upon The unfriendly World, and especially his everyday tormentors, through a seemingly scary and powerful disguise. Such a plot is logical and satisfying to this reader, as opposed to the normal comic book "space alien monster" story, whose plot generally makes little sense, and whose basis and body of story details usually has little or no relationship at all to Our Universe's laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. I did have a few problems in believing that a puny, un-athletic, weakling, such as this story's villain, could have had the dexterity while on stilts, to perform such actions so as to wield his sword so swiftly, chase after people on foot, catch them and murder them, and run away from the police. But, I can live with a few chinks in the armour, to enjoy a well- thought out semi-realistic story, as opposed to completely fantasy-based stories, which make absolutely no sense to me.
Web of Evil 3 - The Goddess of Murder
This story was interesting because most of the way through, the reader thinks that it is a supernatural fantasy story about the vengeance of a disrespected, ignored Goddess. I like the artwork, but not the haphazard colouring. The plot is interesting, especially the unexpected, realistic twist that it was NOT the vengeance of a supernatural goddess, but rather, the loyal Human followers(worshipers) of the disrespected goddess, which manifests itself in destroying her violators.
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Police Comics # 11 - The Brain of Cyrus Smythe
Dr. Smythe was, apparently, a scientist of the ilk of Dr. Frankenstein, who went where Man shouldn't go, trying to "create" life, and made a large, strong monster of sorts. But, The Devil, or the automatic punishment for doing evil, got to Smythe, by having him fall, knock over his self-made, flammable chemicals, stating a fire, which burned down his house, consuming all his evil work. The story hints at taking place around 1642 AD. Yet, The Narrator states that it occurred during The City of London's "infancy". Actually, London's infancy took place BEFORE even The Romans set foot on Britain's shores in 44 B.C.E. It had first been a Keltic (Brythonic) village, and later, market town.
This story used many narrow panels, a configuration which gave it the desired agitated mood, worthy of a vengeful madman's point of view, and affect on the reader. And the arbitrary colouring helped add to that mood. However, both of those tactics hurt my ability to read the story. It felt VERY cramped at 9 squashed pages, of helter-skelter action. The first single-splash panel page was appropriate. But, after that the pages averaged almost exactly 13 panels each. Nine pages of the standard 3-tier 6-panel format would have resulted in just 54 panels, instead of 117. A less crammed more open version, would have taken up 19 pages (a pace more to my liking). Even allowing for some 4-5 pages of crammed agitation approaching the climax, a page count of 15, rather than 9, would have better suited my tastes.
The story plot, itself, with the soul of the villain waiting for a body to use to wreak vengeance upon all Mankind (misplaced) was an entertaining one, and held my interest. It seems that the powers which make the "monster's body" grow are unexplained. I often prefer some attempt at explanation of physically impossible events by use of pseudo-science, even if seemingly ridiculous (and insulting). But, this was typical of how that was handled during the 1940s.
Smash Comics 72 - Midnight - Angela, The Beautiful Bovine
This slapstick, but clever, comedy story is much more my style, despite being a weak parody of Eisner's "Spirit", as I am mainly a comedy fan. Of course, the deliberately sorely exaggerated "stereotypes" of Eisner's comic storytelling devices, such as the extreme camera angles, and obvious overlooking of clues by the Inspector, and pet peeves of The Spirit's (Midnight's) sidekick (Gabby), and the Spirit's disguise (tiny mask) being his alter-ego's only way of not being discovered, seen through by no-one, are battered to death in this parody. But, it is, nevertheless, very entertaining, especially due to the light-hearted comedic style of the artwork, and silliness of the plot.
Web of Evil 3 - The Killer From Saturn
I like that this semi-realistic story is based on a strong plot, about a meek man, dominated and pushed around all his life by others, who vows to wreak his pent-up vengeance upon The unfriendly World, and especially his everyday tormentors, through a seemingly scary and powerful disguise. Such a plot is logical and satisfying to this reader, as opposed to the normal comic book "space alien monster" story, whose plot generally makes little sense, and whose basis and body of story details usually has little or no relationship at all to Our Universe's laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. I did have a few problems in believing that a puny, un-athletic, weakling, such as this story's villain, could have had the dexterity while on stilts, to perform such actions so as to wield his sword so swiftly, chase after people on foot, catch them and murder them, and run away from the police. But, I can live with a few chinks in the armour, to enjoy a well- thought out semi-realistic story, as opposed to completely fantasy-based stories, which make absolutely no sense to me.
Web of Evil 3 - The Goddess of Murder
This story was interesting because most of the way through, the reader thinks that it is a supernatural fantasy story about the vengeance of a disrespected, ignored Goddess. I like the artwork, but not the haphazard colouring. The plot is interesting, especially the unexpected, realistic twist that it was NOT the vengeance of a supernatural goddess, but rather, the loyal Human followers(worshipers) of the disrespected goddess, which manifests itself in destroying her violators.
Hi Robb, glad you found some of the choices interesting, I enjoyed your comments. I chose the Plastic Man story because Cole's art was on a cusp between being quite rough and untutored (as in The Claw and his early episodes of The Comet, Plastic Man and Midnight) and developing a semi-realistic style, while still retaining the frantic and highly imaginative elements which characterized his work.
He shows the ability to display a powerful and detailed splash page and to weave a gripping storyline, however improbable. I doubt his young readers cared too much for practicalities! Plas was an unusual creation as he eventually discarded his "secret identity" and lived full time as a costumed hero. I don't think we see much of Eel O'Brian after this story.
I rather fancy Cole would have preferred 15 pages to the 9 that he had to tell his tale in, hence the small panels, but he'd already received an "upgrade" from 6 pages due to the popularity of the character, and over time he learned to let his art and story develop in pace with one another.
The result was more like the Midnight tale in Smash Comics. I'm not sure to what extent Midnight was intended to be a parody of The Spirit as just a fairly direct swipe so Busy Arnold had a Spirit style character in hand for when Eisner "went solo." So I'm not entirely sure whether Gabby was a parody of Eisner's stereotype Ebony or just a talking monkey. But I'm glad you enjoyed the light-hearted comedy of the story.
You're right about the realities of a puny man managing to murder his victims while wearing stilts, and there are several panels where The Killer from Saturn achieves poses which would be impossible to a stilt-walker, but I think they're necessary to increase the drama and suspense. And I agree that the colouring in Web Of Evil is a little heavy handed and distracts from the flow of the artwork but I feel the stories still hold up for themselves.
Overall I'm pleased you found so much to enjoy and thanks for taking the time to comment.
All the best
K1ngcat
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Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing
When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.
Hey Morgus - Thanks for that. I loved the Flintstones and the Jetsons as a kid, and the animation seemed fine to me then. I didn't know they had those tricks (like the neckties and necklaces) so they could use cheap animation techniques. I guess that's the only way they could get the episodes out quickly. Now I've read that, I can recall backgrounds in those HB cartoons where they did seem to keep walking past the same thing :D
And yes, those are great Scooby backgrounds. Though they could have done more with the fashions. I've bought some new Scooby Doo mysteries in the last year for that girl I work with, and the characters are still wearing the same clothes :D
Cheers
QQ
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Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here
https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing
When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.
Hey Morgus - Thanks for that. I loved the Flintstones and the Jetsons as a kid, and the animation seemed fine to me then. I didn't know they had those tricks (like the neckties and necklaces) so they could use cheap animation techniques. I guess that's the only way they could get the episodes out quickly. Now I've read that, I can recall backgrounds in those HB cartoons where they did seem to keep walking past the same thing :D
And yes, those are great Scooby backgrounds. Though they could have done more with the fashions. I've bought some new Scooby Doo mysteries in the last year for that girl I work with, and the characters are still wearing the same clothes :D
Cheers
QQ
After growing up with 1940s Disney Animation ("The Simulation? of Life"), animated on twos and ones, I couldn't bare to watch the squarish, angular, almost completely motionless figures, standing in front of a sliding background. H-B 1950s and 1960s TV animation was torture, and, to me, the stories and attempts at humour, were inane. Jay Ward's and Bill Scott's Rocky & Bullwinkle, Mr. Peabody, Fractured Fairy Tales, Dudley Do-Right of The Mounties, etc. also used extremely limited animation; but, at least their scripts humour and cleverness made them not only worth watching, but cult favourites. The H_B TV children's programming was absolute garbage to my taste.
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Was it Stan Freberg who called them radio with pictures?
Except with my kids in the car on long trips, I’d play Jack Benny or SUSPENSE...
Robb K: you KNOW their writing was dead on arrival when the Charlton comics came off as better.
Hey, Q.Q.: I’ll bet a burrito the others have seen THE FLINTSTONES commercials for Winston cigarettes. Have you? They’re on youtube. Used to run during the show. Black and white. Used to GET to me. They show Wilma lighting up at the end. I always thought she was smarter.
Winston sponsored the show when it started (that’s why they’re in black and white). They got around the rule about not advertising to kids by saying it was an ‘ADULT’ show. Hardy har har.
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I've been absent from here for the last week, some of the reasons were to do with things going on with my own life but also I've not been happy about my own actions. And considering where do I go from here.
Kingcat was quite upset - to state it mildly - and I was myself considering offering Mark my resignation from the reading group.
I take the liberty of quoting the gist of the last PM Kingcat sent me, as I concur and agree absolutely.
for now I'll stick with the group and see how things work out.
Now I have no intention of dissing your political viewpoint, but I was disappointed that you'd called me out specifically when crash was the first to display liberal tendencies and I was just agreeing with him. If you're going to act as Moderator for the Reading Group then you only needed to ask us both to refrain from political discussion as we were going off topic. But then perhaps your reaction was no less emotional than mine?
I honestly don't enjoy this kind of conflict and I will do my best to moderate myself in future, so let's try to bury the hatchet and see if we can continue to work together without friction.
I think he nailed it there. And I make the same commitment. And offer my apology .
I repeat Kingcat's words and state it as a principle we should adhere to in our [sometimes wonderfully wide-ranging] discussions.
Let's endeavor to refrain from political discussions and going off topic.
That is at least in the open forum. I don't believe in censorship and don't want to restrict speech entirely, so I think I'm on safe ground if I say, that if we feel the need we can use PM's, and even there, lets respect each others viewpoints.
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Speaking of
sometimes wonderfully wide-ranging
I see the discussion has got on to the subject of Animation.
I picked up from my Library a book,
'The Gibliothetque Movie Guide' - More on that in a minute -
That alerted me to the existence of
Ghibliotheque - A Podcast About Studio Ghibli
A podcast that leafs through libraries of the world's greatest animation studios
https://shows.acast.com/ghibliotheque
From this poscast they have produced two books.
1/ Ghibliotheque By Michael Leader, Jake Cunningham.
Based on the Ghibliotheque podcast, which leafs through the library of films 'from the world's greatest animation studio,' this is a fully illustrated book that reviews each Studio Ghibli movie in turn.
2/ The Gibliothetque Movie Guide - The one I currently hold in my hand.
Quote, 'What we have compiled is a broad selection that highlights many of the genres, filmmakers, friends and themes that you can find when dipping your hand into Japanese Animation' They concentrate on Films and there are There are 30 films covered here, dating back to pre-war, so you get something of a history of Japanese Animation.
Some are known to most of us,often by Western adaptions [Akira, NinJa Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion,] but most of them are not.
They have yet to get to Television series.
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They got around the rule about not advertising to kids by saying it was an ‘ADULT’ show. Hardy har har.
The weird thing is that The Flintstones was originally positioned as an adult show. It came on at an "adult" hour (evening rather than afternoon) and I vaguely remember as a kid reading in TV Guide or somewhere that the producers hoped the show would expand their audience beyond kids. I don't know whether they felt their audience-expanding goals were met, but the show certainly was a hit.
Even as a kid I recognized that The Flintstones was a knock-off of The Honeymooners, which my folks watched occasionally. Those were less litigious times, but I wonder if lawyers sparred behind the scenes.
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I've been absent from here for the last week, some of the reasons were to do with things going on with my own life but also I've not been happy about my own actions. And considering where do I go from here.
Kingcat was quite upset - to state it mildly -(1) and I was myself considering offering Mark my resignation from the reading group.
I take the liberty of quoting the gist of the last PM Kingcat sent me, as I concur and agree absolutely.
for now I'll stick with the group and see how things work out.
Now I have no intention of dissing your political viewpoint, but I was disappointed that you'd called me out specifically when crash was the first to display liberal tendencies and I was just agreeing with him. If you're going to act as Moderator for the Reading Group then you only needed to ask us both to refrain from political discussion as we were going off topic. But then perhaps your reaction was no less emotional than mine?
I honestly don't enjoy this kind of conflict and I will do my best to moderate myself in future, so let's try to bury the hatchet and see if we can continue to work together without friction.
I think he nailed it there. And I make the same commitment. And offer my apology .
I repeat Kingcat's words and state it as a principle we should adhere to in our [sometimes wonderfully wide-ranging] discussions.
(2) Let's endeavor to refrain from political discussions and [/b]going off topic.
That is at least in the open forum. I don't believe in censorship and don't want to restrict speech entirely, so I think I'm on safe ground if I say, that if we feel the need we can use PM's, and even there, lets respect each others viewpoints.
(1) I'd hate to see you (or any of our other members) leave, Panther, over an issue that's already been solved.
(2) I'm all for us avoiding discussion of politics and religion. And when we otherwise go off-topic, I'm all for letting it go on, IF it is a tangentially-related subject, and is moved to a new thread in its appropriate CB+ Forum section, once we see that it is getting too unwieldy, and starting to take over the thread. But, I'd hate to miss out on some of the great tangential discussions we've had. So. let's just keep aware, and announce that this new, off-topic topic will be moved to its own thread, started by X person, and refer participants to the section where it will be located.
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Some are known to most of us,often by Western adaptions [Akira, NinJa Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion,] but most of them are not.
They have yet to get to Television series.
Wait, they talked about an Evangelion movie without talking about the TV show??? As I understand it The End of Evangelion movie was done to remake the final two episodes of the series. The idea that someone would discuss the movie without talking about the series baffles me. It's like discussing a peanut butter cup, but only talking about the chocolate and not the peanut butter.
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Even as a kid I recognized that The Flintstones was a knock-off of The Honeymooners, which my folks watched occasionally. Those were less litigious times, but I wonder if lawyers sparred behind the scenes.
I believe Jackie Gleason wanted to sue and he was talked out of it. I think the argument was that The Flintstones was so popular that it was worried he would look bad for suing.
And since we're off topic anyway, the original title for the Flintstones was The Flagstones, but that was objected to by Mort Walker of the Hi & Lois strip, since the last name of Hi & Lois was Flagstone.
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Wait, they talked about an Evangelion movie without talking about the TV show??? As I understand it The End of Evangelion movie was done to remake the final two episodes of the series.
The reviews in the book are of Movies only, which is what I was trying to say, not that the movies were discussed out of context.
I haven't read everything in the book yet, , but I have read the material on the 'Cowboy Bebop' anime movie. Obviously you can't discuss that without talking about the context of the TV show and they do.
I am sure the same holds true re the Evangelion anime movie.
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Was ‘The Flintstones’ Actually Based on ‘The Honeymooners?’
by Matthew Trzcinski
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/was-the-flintstones-actually-based-on-the-honeymooners.html/
Hard to believe otherwise really.
"The real connection between ‘The Honeymooners’ and Joseph Barbera
Barbera hired some of the writers of The Honeymooners, Herbert Finn and Sydney Zelinka. MeTV reports Barbera paid them $3,000 only to deem their scripts subpar. He felt they were overly wordy and lacked enough action for an animated sitcom."
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A few things. First, I've no idea about The Honeymooners. I don't recall ever seeing it on our tv and I don't recall any of my pals speaking about it. So I couldn't say if there's a relationship between it and The Flintstones. I was a big fan of The Flintstones and, at the time, didn't realise there were connections with fags.
As we didn't have colour tv till about 1970, any cartoons, apart from what I saw at the pictures, were watched in B&W.
As for Off-Topic, I seem to do it all the time. Apologies. But off-topic, or going off at a tangent more likely, is or can be a good thing as it throws up other avenues for discussion and research.
Re. Jack Cole,
I'm nowhere near as expert as many of you in what is on the page and how it's done so if it's early, looser work, I often don't notice. I am simply a Plastic Man fan as it's crazy, imaginative, colourful and funny, and I enjoy Lady Luck - I've been reading a selection of her stories.
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Remember that scene in THE SIMPSONS where they go to court over Itchy and Scratchy? Roger Meyers Jr. says ‘animation was BUILT on plagiarism'. Has The Flintstones linked with The Honeymooners, Top Cat with Sgt. Bilko, then does a devastating rundown; “Huckleberry Hound, Chief Wiggum, Yogi Bear? Ha! Andy Griffith, Edward G Robinson, and Art Carney.”
By the way, another cartoon character they tried to use to get around the adults only rules. Mr Magoo was used in advertising for Stag beer.
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Now there's a show I just don't get, Simpsons. I don't find it in any way funny, the "jokes" are poor and telegraphed and it's poor stuff. Despite trying it a few times, I couldn't see it at all.
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hey, paw’, remember BLOCKBUSTER? My local video store owner would never recommend a comedy. Ever. He always said that comedy was more personal than drama. Made sense. Jerry Lewis could get the first wife laughing her head off. Me? Nothing.
For mom and dad it was Roadrunner. Mom thought it was dumb that the coyote never got the bird and it would barely be a meal if he DID. Dad said that was why it was FUNNY. Mom would just shake her head.
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crash was the first to display liberal tendencies
Indeed, I was the first to speak out and somehow K1ngcat became the target. It's difficult always to hold one's tongue in an age when silence so often means consent. Agreed, CB+ does not need to descend into the chaos of other forums. I'm willing to abide by the "avoid politics" rule and I hope it will be applied uniformly, meaning avoiding moaning about "wokeness," "cancel culture," and other political catchphrases.
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The Flintstones was originally positioned as an adult show.
It was positioned in an adult time slot in Australia and was hugely successful.
Paw said, As we didn't have color TV till about 1970
Was that the UK or just Scotland?
I think we had it a little earlier in Queensland, but we were behind Sydney and Melbourne.
Fascinating to see, on YouTube, episodes of shows in color that you remember only in BnW!
Morgus said, ‘animation was BUILT on plagiarism'.
Oh not just animation. Hollywood eats itself.
Top Cat, of whom I am a big fan, was inspired not just by "The Phil Silvers Show with Arnold Stang imitating Sgt Bilko's voice for the titular character. " but also, "Top Cat and his gang were inspired by the East Side Kids, roguish, street-smart characters from a series of 1940s B movies."
Not only that but, "Maurice Gosfield, who played Private Duane Doberman in The Phil Silvers Show, provided the voice for Benny the Ball in Top Cat, and Benny's chubby appearance was based on Gosfield's."
So, not only plagurism, but incestuous too?!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Cat
Morgus said, Mr Magoo was used in advertising for Stag beer.
What most US citizens [and UK citizens] are unaware of is the amount of [often inappropriate] advertising work that copyright characters and well-known 'stars' do in foreign markets, like Japan, India and South America to name a few markets.
Morgus said, Jerry Lewis could get the first wife laughing her head off. Me? Nothing.
I'm with you there. Also, while I admire Lucille Ball in many ways, the Lucy Show left me cold.
Mom thought it was dumb that the coyote never got the bird and it would barely be a meal if he DID.
Well, that's just the premise that the gags are built on.
Sylvester never gets Tweety, Elmer never gets Bugs, Tom never gets Jerry! And we always identify with the underdog [ or cat or rabbit]
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Well the fortnight is over and QQ has already posted a new topic, so let's forget our human frailties for now and wrap this one up. Thanks to everyone who commented on Jack Cole and his works, anybody interested in seeing any more will only need to search the site ,though I have a shrewd suspicion that those who are really interested already know where to find his best stuff!
All the best
K1ngcat
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Now, back to the book selections. Remember them?
Don't know much about Cole's personal life, but I am an admirer of his work on Plastic Man.
Police Comics 11
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=19820
I'm stunned by that splash!
I'm wondering what my reaction to it would have been if I had picked it up at the age of 10 or 11?
You have just got to turn the page.
Didn't enjoy the story as much as experience it, there is a kind of incoherence about it - doesn't entirely make sense, more so than most 'long underwear' stories.
I think Eisner's Spirit had to be an influence in Cole's storytelling.
I am only going to concentrate on Cole's work in my comments, but the 711 story makes me think that George Brenner's work would be interesting to do a Reading Group on.
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=20032
Smash Comics 72
Midnight - The beautiful bovine!
Plotwise, this is straight-forward but Cole's art gives it another dimension.
The detail in the backgrounds, the facial expressions and the crown scenes and the romance-struck cow make you laugh.
Midnight mostly takes a backseat and most of the action is by the rest of the regular cast.
He doesn't just have Midnight, a character who is almost a clone of the Spirit, but the story layout and characterization is also reminiscent of Eisner.
The Killer from Saturn
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=71513
Reading this straight after Cole's work on Plastic Man and Midnight, it's hard to take it seriously.
He adopts a darker style of art and goes for a more noir approach, but it doesn't quite work.
I don't know what he was striving for visually, but the monster looks like a bad Cosplay costume.
It strikes me that however weird Jack Kirby's monsters, they all look biologically realistic, not plain silly. This monster looks ridiculous rather than scary. The story tho, is excellent and memorable.Although quite brutal.
Goddess of Murder
Well, this story is just plain nasty, and so is the art. The 'statue' of Kali is suitably grotesque. The twist at the end of the story just doesn't really work, it's not suspenseful and the characters are not portrayed with enough detail to give us any sympathy for them.
Cole's work in these four stories goes from one extreme to another. I have always admired his Plastic Man work but now I have a feeling that he may have been a seriously disturbed character.
Thanks KingCat for the opportunity to look closer at Cole's work.
I will still enjoy Cole's Plastic Man work, it is unique.
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hey, paw’, remember BLOCKBUSTER? My local video store owner would never recommend a comedy. Ever. He always said that comedy was more personal than drama. Made sense. Jerry Lewis could get the first wife laughing her head off. Me? Nothing.
For mom and dad it was Roadrunner. Mom thought it was dumb that the coyote never got the bird and it would barely be a meal if he DID. Dad said that was why it was FUNNY. Mom would just shake her head.
Morgus, I remember Blockbuster, and not the Batman foe. Humour is a personal thing. I love Abbott and Costello, my Wife can't stand them.
I just don't get Alan Partridge, at all. I can't see what's remotely funny but friends rave about him.
Steptoe and Son repeats are on Radio 4 Extra and there was a time we thought they were hilarious. now, we find them difficult to listen to.
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Paw said, As we didn't have color TV till about 1970
Was that the UK or just Scotland? [/b]
I think we had it a little earlier in Queensland, but we were behind Sydney and Melbourne.
Fascinating to see, on YouTube, episodes of shows in color that you remember only in BnW!
[/quote]
The UK (At least England, is purported to have started with colour TV in 1967. Scotland didn't get it effectively until 1970 (first broadcast Dec 13, 1969). Canada started in 1966. West Germany 1967. I was in West Berlin in summer of 1967, when the convention to introduce colour TV to West Germany was going on. So, I couldn't get a hotel room, as absolutely none were available. Even the youth hostels were totally booked for weeks. Private homeowners were asked to rent out rooms in their homes to accommodate the shelterless people. I ended up in the home of a widow of an SS Officer, who had photos on her walls of Adolph Hitler shaking her husband's hand, congratulating him on getting a medal. Needless to say, I didn't offer the information that I was Jewish, and was related to many Holocaust victims.
I read that Australia finally started colour TV broadcasts in 1974. The US was purported to have started sporadic broadcasts of one-time colour programmes in 1954, but only a handful of wealthy people had colour sets before 1958, or so. But most normal people only started getting them around 1960, when a halfway decent amount of regular colour broadcasts started.