[happyhuman]

Has anyone read those new comics from DC?

First Wave sounds intersting even due it includes the Spirit which I dont like very much but as I dont know much about the MLJ characters I dont feel any need to read them and I usually like to read new interpretations of golden age characters

As far as I know the original comics of the MLJ chracters are in public domain but not the characters themselves, like Captain Marvel, is this correct?

[narfstar]

I read a couple DC/MLJ and since they were "my" characters in name and dress only I was not interested. A layman's, not legal, take on copyright/trademark is that copyright was limited term with renewal and applies to stories. MLJ did not renew most of their superhero stories. Trademark is on characters/designs and lasts as long as it is used and defended. The characters are now trademark to DC and no one else can use the the characters likeness or name prominently on a cover or ad to promote their product. Reprints of the public domain works may be used inside or new stories as long as they only contain likeness/aspects from pd works. Please consult a lawyer before relying on any information found here as it is not meant for legal advice.

[John C]

Not to sound like a broken record, but characters don't have copyrights, because they're not "fixed works."  The stories in which they appear carry the copyrights, and you can't legally derive from copyrighted works.  (And you also can't step on someone's trademark.)

There are exceptions.  The courts once ruled that Sam Spade, I believe, wasn't important enough to his own stories for his character to be covered under the books' copyrights.  He was, essentially, a "stock" hard-boiled detective with a cool name.  But otherwise, it helps to think in terms of the story, rather than the character.

MLJ didn't renew copyrights until after most of the Golden Age superhero stories expired, so you should be able to derive (adapt, change, continue) the stories to your heart's content, as long as you don't break any valid copyrights or violate a standing trademark.  For example, you can't group the heroes on a team that looks just like the later Archie-published versions, and you definitely can't call them the Mighty Crusaders, because that would step on the copyright of the '80s stories.  You also can't publish a Shield series or with the Shield as the cover's selling point, because DC probably has a trademark for those purposes, and it would look like you're trying to steal customers from them by creating a product only they have permission to produce.  (Or maybe it'd be Marvel, given the name.)

And as mentioned, check with a real lawyer if it's important.  "Some dude on the Internet said it'd be OK" is only worth mentioning in court if you want to see the prosecuting attorney's hysterical laughter...

[happyhuman]

Thanks for the answers but I'm not planning on using any characters and/or reprint anything - I was just curious, really.

I Realiy wanted more of an opinion on those stories

[OtherEric]

I really don't care about the MLJ characters and haven't bothered looking at the books yet.

I'm definitely interested in the Doc Savage & Avenger series, and while I'm less hopeful about the Spirit the "Spirit Black and White" backup sounds like it could be fun.  It will probably wind up being like the Batman B&W in whatever title it was a backup in, though- I'll buy the odd issue where I care about the creators and skip it otherwise.

[happyhuman]

Not to sound like a broken record, but characters don't have copyrights, because they're not "fixed works."  The stories in which they appear carry the copyrights, and you can't legally derive from copyrighted works.  (And you also can't step on someone's trademark.)

There are exceptions.  The courts once ruled that Sam Spade, I believe, wasn't important enough to his own stories for his character to be covered under the books' copyrights.  He was, essentially, a "stock" hard-boiled detective with a cool name.  But otherwise, it helps to think in terms of the story, rather than the character.

MLJ didn't renew copyrights until after most of the Golden Age superhero stories expired, so you should be able to derive (adapt, change, continue) the stories to your heart's content, as long as you don't break any valid copyrights or violate a standing trademark.  For example, you can't group the heroes on a team that looks just like the later Archie-published versions, and you definitely can't call them the Mighty Crusaders, because that would step on the copyright of the '80s stories.  You also can't publish a Shield series or with the Shield as the cover's selling point, because DC probably has a trademark for those purposes, and it would look like you're trying to steal customers from them by creating a product only they have permission to produce.  (Or maybe it'd be Marvel, given the name.)

Because you bothered and wrote the hazarders of using a PD character while someone else is using it maybe you could help me understand something

[John C]

Because you bothered and wrote the hazarders of using a PD character while someone else is using it maybe you could help me understand something

[happyhuman]

Interesting, so company X can take the Captain Marvel comics that are in PD, change the character name and custom and then print and sell it? Won

[narfstar]

From my limited understanding of trademark (learned around here) trademark is lost if not used or DEFENDED. While the Shield and other MLJ characters were not in use for several years they remained firmly associated with MLJ/Archie. There was no one else attempting to use the trademarked characters promotionally. Had they done so and MLJ defended the trademark, or if no one tried, then the character remained trademarked to MLJ even though not in use. If MLJ had allowed someone else to use the characters to sell or represent their product then they would have been relinquishing the trademark. Once MLJ again used the characters they essentially restated their trademark.

[happyhuman]

From my limited understanding of trademark (learned around here) trademark is lost if not used or DEFENDED. While the Shield and other MLJ characters were not in use for several years they remained firmly associated with MLJ/Archie. There was no one else attempting to use the trademarked characters promotionally. Had they done so and MLJ defended the trademark, or if no one tried, then the character remained trademarked to MLJ even though not in use. If MLJ had allowed someone else to use the characters to sell or represent their product then they would have been relinquishing the trademark. Once MLJ again used the characters they essentially restated their trademark.

So if Dynamite started to use Lev's Daredevil and TM it as 'Devil how can image use the same custom for their Lev based Dardevil character? isn't the custom also TM?

[John C]

It might be worth mentioning that the IP words mean what they say.  Copyright is the right to copy (including imitate).  Trademark is a "mark in trade," a brand that identifies the source of goods and services.  That's the primary guideline.

Dynamite registered a trademark for "The Death-Defying 'Devil."  That's the phrase, not the "character."  They registered it so that they can assert their ownership and use it as a "brand," especially as the title of a comic.  I don't think they have a trademark on the costume, because they can't prove that people think of their products when seeing the costume (as opposed to Superman, for example).

Even if they did, it only means that you can't use the costume (or the phrase, which we know is a trademark) in a way that might trick their customers into buying your product instead of theirs.  If you're not using the trademark to directly get customers, it's fine, as long as your source for the material is public domain (I would have said "or original," but if you created an original character, it's rather unlikely someone else trademarked it first...).  For example, it should be OK to write a story where Mickey Mouse appears and even stars, so long as you don't bill it as a Mickey Mouse story (which would make people believe you're connected with Disney) and you only use features that come from those few public domain Disney cartoons instead of more modern versions.

Beyond that, we don't know the situation.  You can look up the trademarks to see who owns what, if you want, but we can't guess at who actually claims and registered which trademarks like we can with copyrights, where it's automatically granted and the publisher usually owns it.  And without that, and without knowing what agreements the companies have made, we can't guess at who's infringing on whom and to what extent in specific cases.

That's why lawyers get paid much more than we do, after all.

[DennyWilson]

According to the USPTO :

How long does a trademark registration last?

For a trademark registration to remain valid, an Affidavit of Use ("Section 8 Affidavit") must be filed: (1) between the fifth and sixth year following registration, and (2) within the year before the end of every ten-year period after the date of registration.  The registrant may file the affidavit within a grace period of six months after the end of the sixth or tenth year, with payment of an additional fee.

The registrant must also file a

[annihilus1]

Has anyone read those new comics from DC?

First Wave sounds intersting even due it includes the Spirit which I dont like very much but as I dont know much about the MLJ characters I dont feel any need to read them and I usually like to read new interpretations of golden age characters

As far as I know the original comics of the MLJ chracters are in public domain but not the characters themselves, like Captain Marvel, is this correct?

Not sure if anyone has answered your question about actually reading the new DC books yet.

I read the Batman/Doc Savage preview book (a prologue of sorts to the First Wave books) and was pleasantly surprised. I'm a huge Doc Savage fan and am always happy to see Doc in new series and usually disappointed after reading them. In this case, I wasn't disappointed, so that's a plus for me! I can't wait to see how the Doc series pans out.

[Jedifish]

Has anyone read those new comics from DC?

First Wave sounds intersting even due it includes the Spirit which I dont like very much but as I dont know much about the MLJ characters I dont feel any need to read them and I usually like to read new interpretations of golden age characters

As far as I know the original comics of the MLJ chracters are in public domain but not the characters themselves, like Captain Marvel, is this correct?

I have no connection with any of the MLJ characters, so I only picked up The Shield because I find Eric Trautmann to be a really good up and coming writer (and his JSA vs. Kobra series was great. He was also a co-writer on Checkmate with Greg Rucka). I love it. One of my favorite new series. I really like Marco Rudy's art, too. The Inferno back-up story didn't do much for me. As for copyright, this is what's in the indicia for The Shield:

Copyright

[DennyWilson]

The "First Wave" universe seems to be a darker version of the "Batman - The Animated Series" - universe.

[boox909]

The "First Wave" universe seems to be a darker version of the "Batman - The Animated Series" - universe.

I get that impression also. I have enjoyed the two books released so far. I expect no disappointment similar to the Red Circle revamp (excluding the awesome The Web title with the neat Hangman back up). I look forward to the release of the circulation numbers.

B.