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Harlan Ellison

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topic icon Author Topic: Harlan Ellison  (Read 994 times)

The Australian Panther

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Harlan Ellison
« on: February 09, 2021, 02:21:12 AM »

This thread triggered by Prof's comments over in the 'Top Ten' Thread.
Oh Boy! Harlan Ellison! Can't ever talk about that guy without controversy.
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Harlan Ellison's an ASSHOLE! And he has personal reasons for continuously bad-mouthing ST for decades, taken to the point of a campaign to prevent established science-fiction writers from ever contributing to it.

Ellison was always a polarizing character, very deliberately so. But! perspective always provides a clearer picture. And Physical Violence is always unacceptable. Do we have actual verifiable evidence that he did physical violence? It's irrefutable that he threatened it, on more than one occasion. He was an expert at Verbal Aggression. He had to be,because he was only a short man. He also became fascinated by Gang Culture, got involved in it to some extent and wrote books and stories about it under the non-de-plume Hal Ellson. But he was not fan of gang culture and wrote about it to publicize it but not to promote it.           
Appropriate to discuss him here because he had a love of, an interest in an involvement in and a knowledge of comics which is highly significant. That said, I'm no fan of much of his comics works.
I devoured his fiction at one point. And I have also read at lot of his TV and movie criticism. He once had a regular column.   
But his background is what we call "Hard Science Fiction' . I devoured Science Fiction in my early teen days. I read Asimov, Van Vogt, Bradbury, Fred Pohl, Sturgeon (Who I revere] and Ellison to name a few. I read Judith Merrill's yearly anthologies and was aware of the debates about what Science Fiction is and do you call it Science Fiction or SF and why. The Hard Science Fiction community [ and you notice I'm not using SF] invented fandom and their fanaticism puts Star Trek or Dr Who fandom to shame. That's Ellison?s background. Many [I was going to write most] Hard Science Fiction Fans share his opinion on Star Trek.
Yes, Roddenberry was a pioneer and introduced a lot of things to the US mass audience [including the first interracial kiss] but always in a very watered-down way. And Hard Science Fiction fans had a lot of hope for it. But when all is said and done Trek is Space Opera and if you look at Star Trek and Star Wars from a logical point of view ? and having read a lot of Hard Science Fiction before watching those shows, I can?t help myself - they are full of holes, unbelievable silly nonsense. But if you look at them as fantasy, as story-telling and you don't care about the overall logic, you can enjoy them for what they are. Some of Twilight Zone is much closer to true Science Fiction. Outer Limits not so much.
Ellison should have had more sense that to be working for Irwin Allen?s series. His writing is very intellectual and speculative. He likes to stimulate thought, to come at things out of left field. Which is why he edited the 'Dangerous Visions' anthologies. You could argue that he was ill-suited to write for US TV in the 60?s and 70?s.       
The British had less censorship and network interference to contend with, so they produced  Journey into Space for Radio and Quatermass and A for Andromeda to name a few, which are Science Fiction.
In movies, Ridley Scott?s films are Hard Science Fiction. And if you feel inclined to argue, feel free. As I have pointed out, that argument has been raging for 80 years now. Probably always will.   
Dr Who I would call a hybrid. These properties are essentially story-telling medium. Logic is an optional extra. The term 'Willing suspension of Disbelief' explains what as a writer or producer you need to inculcate in your audience for your property to work. For Hollywood, its all entertainment, for Ellison, Hard Science Fiction was a religion.         
Ellison saw himself as a man on a mission to bring true Science Fiction to the masses. He also perceived himself as a highly ethical and principled man, Which is a problem because it breeds self-righteousness. And can repulse others. 
Personally I can say I was equally attracted and repulsed by the man. Attracted by his creative work and vision, less so by his behaviour.     
He should have read his Robert Burns,
O, wad some Power the giftie gie us, To see oursels as others see us! It wad frae monie a blunder free us, An' foolish notion.
Cheers!

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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2021, 04:55:05 PM »

My first exposure to Ellison was THE OUTER LIMITS episode "Demon With A Glass Hand".  This was when ABC moved the show to Saturday night opposite JACKIE GLEASON.  So, while I'd somewhat gotten hooked on season 1 (and the more I think about it, most likely during the summer reruns), "Demon" may have been the only 2nd-season episode I saw first-run.  Or at least, half of it. I actually remember switching channels halfway in and walking into the middle of the story. TOTALLY intrgued and gripping.

And then somehow... when I much later got hooked on syndicated reruns in the 70s, it kept escaping me.  Ever have that happen with reruns? Some episodes seem to pop up all the time, while others, you somehow never see them?

I believe it was in the LATE 70s when a local UHF station was running it M-F at 10 PM, that I finally saw it again-- and that time, from the beginning.  WHOA. You know, in many ways, that may be my favorite work of his. (Or, one of them... heh.)

A few years later, DC decided to do a series of science-fiction TPBs, and "Demon..." was one of them.  My comics-shop guy said it was the best-selling book in the series (and most of them barely sold at all). But he insisted it sold entirely because of Ellison.  I argued it sold well because it had 3 built-in audiences!

1 - Harlan Ellison fans
2 - Marshall Rogers fans
3 - THE OUTER LIMITS fans

Crazy enough... although in the 90s, I rented and copied the entire 1st season... I got interrupted at the start of season 2, and so, to this day, have still only ever seen that thing ONCE from the beginning.

One more thing to add to my DVD box set "wanted" list.


Oh, I did copy 'Soldier", the 2nd season opener.  Crazy but true:  Ellison SUED James Cameron over "THE TERMINATOR", because he felt (and probably rightly so) that it swiped elements of BOTH of his OL episodes.

However, it also contained elements from "The Man Who Was Never Born" from season 1.  In that story, an astronaut accidentally goes thru a tme warp and finds a future Earth nearly deovid of life due to a biological plague.  One mutant he finds there tells of the legend of the man who caused the plague.  The two go back thru the warp to try and change history... but the astronaut somehow dies en route.  The mutant, who has the ability to project an image of a healthy human, meets and falls in love with the woman who was the FIANCEE of the man he came to stop-- or kill.  She falls in love with the man from the future, leaves her fiance, and travels to the future. But because her SON was now never born, the mutant vanishes when they go thru the time warp, and she's left alone orbiting Earth in the spaceship.

Anthony Lawrence, who wrote this, DIDN'T bother suing Cameron, even though, arguebly, there was more of his plot in "THE TERMINATOR" than there was of Ellison's 2 stories.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2021, 04:58:51 PM by profh0011 »
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Captain Audio

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2021, 06:35:21 PM »

Terminator more closely resembled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg_2087
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2021, 12:58:20 AM »

Quote
  And then somehow... when I much later got hooked on syndicated reruns in the 70s, it kept escaping me.  Ever have that happen with reruns? Some episodes seem to pop up all the time, while others, you somehow never see them?


During the 90's I was in a situation and a place where I rarely watched TV. At Christmas I would visit my father for a fortnight. It seemed every Christmas all that was on his TV was Re-runs and for years, it seemed they were always exactly the same re-runs - so I rarely got to see anything new. It was in that context that I watched much of Smallville. Looked like an excellent show, done with a lot of love and involving people from previous Superman shows, but I only got to see some shows and always out of context. 

The Starlost. This was Ellison's big chance to do an original series. Through no fault of his own, [Except possibly the consequences of rubbing people the wrong way] it was a disaster.
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Harlan Ellison was approached by Robert Kline, a 20th Century Fox television producer, to come up with an idea for a science fiction TV series consisting of eight episodes, to pitch to the BBC as a co-production in February 1973.[1] The BBC rejected the idea.[2] Unable to sell The Starlost for prime time, Kline decided to pursue a low budget approach and produce it for syndication.

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Before Ellison could begin work on the show's production bible, a writers' strike began, running from March 6 to June 24.[3] Kline negotiated an exception with the Writer's Guild, on the grounds that the production was wholly Canadian ? and Ellison went to work on a bible for the series.[1]

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As the filming went on, Ellison grew disenchanted with the budget cuts, details that were changed, and what he characterized as a progressive dumbing down of the story. Ellison's dissatisfaction extended to the new title of the pilot episode; he had titled it "Phoenix Without Ashes" but it was changed to "Voyage of Discovery".

Before the production of the pilot episode was completed, Ellison invoked a clause in his contract to force the producers to use his alternative registered writer's name of "Cordwainer Bird" on the end credits.

Sixteen episodes were made. Fox decided not to pick up the options for the remainder of the series. 
   
If you guys don't know already, if you ever see 'Cordwainer Bird' credited as a scriptwriter, you know that the actual scriptwriter is publicly washing his or her hands of the result.
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Ben Bova, in an editorial in Analog Science Fiction (June 1974) and in interviews in fanzines, made it clear how disgruntled he had been as science adviser. In 1975, he published a novel entitled The Starcrossed, depicting a scientist taken on as a science adviser for a terrible science fiction series. 

You can find some episodes of the show, which is included in lists of 'The Worst Science Fiction shows of all time'  here.
Episode 1 - you can see the potential, but its painful to watch.
The Starlost - Episode 1 "Voyage of Discovery"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Kv0VlJvNQ

Cheers!
 
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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2021, 04:16:27 AM »


Terminator more closely resembled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg_2087



F*** YEAH !!!!!

I first saw that film back in the late 60s and loved it.  Never saw it again until a year or so back, when I found it online.  Loved it again so much, I watched it a 3rd time at the same site.  (And it's not all that comfy watching stuff sitting in my computer chair.)

An obscure bit of trivia... I forget which piece of music it was, but during the big fight in the barn, there's a piece of KPM Library music that later turned up on "SPIDER-MAN" in 1968.

I believe CYBORG 2087 was one of a string of films written by Arthur C. Pierce.  I noted a few years ago at the IMDB that he was responsible for a number of sci-fi films that all stood out for simply being WELL-WRITTEN.  I found a bunch of them online, and watched a whole set of them as a mini-marathon.

Pierce didn't sue Cameron, EITHER.


And today's funny coincidence... I just got done re-watching "THE KEEPER, PART I" on LOST IN SPACE.  One of the very best episodes in the entire series, in which everybody got good writing for a change.  And Michael Rennie's character is fascinating and charming, despite his (deep down) NOT really being a "civilized" being (when it comes to his attitude toward "lesser" species).
« Last Edit: February 10, 2021, 04:20:40 AM by profh0011 »
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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 04:25:11 AM »

I just thought... CYBORG 2087 is closer to TERMINATOR 2: JUDGMENT DAY, because you have agood guy cyborg coming back to fix things, followed by mindless killer cyborg out to stop HIM. And then at the end, it appears history HAS been changed.  One of the most compelling moments in TERMINATOR 2 is when it seems that history is no longer "fixed", and the future has suddenly become an open road.  (That was shot to hell in subsequent sequels, but I prefer to ignore those as they never should have been made.)
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 05:55:24 AM »

So if Cyborg 2087 influenced the Terminator, was Cameron influenced by Destination Inner Space for The Abyss?  Seems likely.
Arthur C Pierce
https://www.allmovie.com/artist/arthur-c-pierce-p106453
Pierce apparently worked with Producer Hugo Grimaldi, who seemed to specialise in cheap knock-off movies.
He obviously didn't have a clue what he had in Pierce. Probably didn't care either.
The films are cheap and nasty, but you are right, the scripts and the ideas are excellent.   
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0342120/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#producer 
BIO
https://www.allmovie.com/artist/hugo-grimaldi-p92627

Most of them can be found on YouTube.

Cheers!

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Captain Audio

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 11:33:45 AM »


So if Cyborg 2087 influenced the Terminator, was Cameron influenced by Destination Inner Space for The Abyss?  Seems likely.
Arthur C Pierce
https://www.allmovie.com/artist/arthur-c-pierce-p106453
Pierce apparently worked with Producer Hugo Grimaldi, who seemed to specialise in cheap knock-off movies.
He obviously didn't have a clue what he had in Pierce. Probably didn't care either.
The films are cheap and nasty, but you are right, the scripts and the ideas are excellent.   
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0342120/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1#producer 
BIO
https://www.allmovie.com/artist/hugo-grimaldi-p92627

Most of them can be found on YouTube.

Cheers!

If Terminator was influenced by Cyborg 2087 it was likely unconsciously. Its a fairly forgettable film though I remember it well due to Michael Rennie being the main player. My dad closely resembled Rennie back then so I always liked to watch his films.
Point is neither film was much if anything like Ellison's Soldier episode. I don't believe Ellison deserved a bit of credit, much less money, for Terminator any more than he would have for Cyborg 2087.
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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2021, 02:24:29 PM »

There's also "Demon With a Glass Hand" which involes someone frm the future coming to the past in hope of stopping invaders n the future, and then being pursued by them.  the problem is, he has amnesia, and can't remember who he is, or exactly what his mission.  That was my intro to Robert Culp, too.

I had to laugh when years back someone pointed out there'd been 3 OUTER LIMITS episodes that could be argued to have influenced THE TERMINATOR, yet the one with the most plot resemblence was the one where the writer didn't sue.

A lot of stories borrow from or are influenced by earlier stories. The point is to put your own personal spin on it, to make it "original" and stand out. (Same with music.)
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 03:47:54 AM »

As I understand it Ellison won the lawsuit (and maybe even filed it) because Cameron was stupid enough to mention the TV episode as a source for The Terminator. I'd guess he didn't really know how litigious Ellison could be.
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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 04:16:33 AM »

The one I always remember was this DOCTOR WHO story by Pip & Jane Baker, "Terror of the Vervoids", a murder mystery on a luxury liner.  Pip & Jane always openly maintained it was "an Agatha Christie tribute".  The show had already done a great one years earlier, "The Robots of Death".

However, I figured out they were LYING.  It was the day I sat thru "GOLDEN RENDEZVOUS", an Alistair MacLean film starring Richard Harris.  It, too, involved murder on a ship, but, it also involved a hijacking by terrorists, and something kept secret in an "isolation ward".

Haflway thru the film I realized, "Hey, wait a minute, I've seen this before!"  And then I remembered what it was.  MY guess was... Pip & Jane claimed they'd done a GENERIC Agatha Christie tribute... because they didn't want to be SUED for doing a VERY SPECIFIC, blatent swipe of an Alistair MacLean story.

;D
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profh0011

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 04:23:46 AM »

My FAVORITE Harlan Ellison story turned out to be very near the end of the 3rd, new-for-syndication season of the 80s revival of "THE TWILIGHT ZONE"-- "Crazy As A Soup Sandwich".  It involves a gangster (Tony Franciosa, one of my fave actors) and a demon from hell.  The whole look of the episode reminds me of a darker version of the Adam West BATMAN (how that should could have / should have been), and is written as a COMEDY.  Ellison hould have done more comedies.  He REALLY had a wonderful knack for them!

Like "Demon With A Glass Hand", "Crazy As A Soup Sandwich" was adapted into a COMIC-BOOK.  As I understand it, it remains to this day the ONLY TV episode of "THE TWILIGHT ZONE" to ever be adapted into a comic-book!  It was in the 1st issue of the series from Now Comics.  The art was by NEAL ADAMS (in fact, it's my FAVORITE comic ever from Neal Adams), and the cover-- which perfectly captured the opening credits of the show-- was by BILL SIENKIEWICZ.

In fact, this is my FAVORITE episode of 'THE TWILIGHT ZONE".

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7y4q5h
« Last Edit: February 11, 2021, 04:26:40 AM by profh0011 »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Harlan Ellison
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2021, 06:48:02 AM »

Quote
"GOLDEN RENDEZVOUS", an Alistair MacLean film starring Richard Harris.  It, too, involved murder on a ship, but, it also involved a hijacking by terrorists, and something kept secret in an "isolation ward". 


Never seen that, must hunt it down. But Harris made another movie about a Terrorist and a Ship. which I remember fondly. I also think that Juggernaut was one of the first modern Disaster thrillers.
Interestingly, the name of the ship is the Britanic, which was the name of the Titanic's almost twin and sister ship.     
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