[cain0730]

thanx so much for info on aquaman I have another query does anybody know if there have been any reprints of the golden age guardian by simon and Kirby

[jimmm kelly]

If you go to Mike's Amazing World of DC Comics and look in the indexes for Newsboy Legion (Earth-Two), it will show you listings for those. There was an S&K Newsboy Legion hardcover collection that came out in 2010, which I was stoked about, until I thumbed through a copy in the store.

They did this using scans and not very good scans, so the book has a muddy look (they should have paid one of the guys on this website to clean up the scans for them). It's bad enough to have a book with scans, rather than proper reproduction, but it's downright offensive to have a book made from bad scans.

I decided to save my money and put it toward buying the various DC Kirby comics from the early '70s, many of which have reprints of the Newsboy Legion in them using all the talent of Jack Adler and his production department to restore the art to good condition.

Some of these were reprinted in SUPERMAN'S PAL JIMMY OLSEN and a few in MISTER MIRACLE.

[josemas]

Back in 1971 DC's comics went from 15 cents 32 page comics to 25 cents 48 page comics.  This lasted about a year and then they reverted to 20 cent 32 page comics as Marvel had made big inroads in sales by underselling them.

I loved the larger 25 cent issues from DC though as they had reprint backups that were generally pretty cool.  The Kirby titles were among the best.  Not only were we getting his new Fourth World unfolding before our eyes but the backups were classic Simon and Kirby GA stuff!  Being a kid with a paper route I could hardly afford to be buying much original GA material so these reprints were real eye openers. 

Jimmy Olsen reprinted Newsboy Legion stories, Forever People reprinted Sandman, New Gods reprinted Manhunter and Mister Miracle reprinted Boy Commandos.

Best

Joe

[jimmm kelly]

Yes, I really loved this time in DC's history. Not only could I get all these great new stories, but I got to read stories from the Golden and Silver Ages that I'd never seen.

I just wish I had had a better attitude about Jack Kirby at the time, as I stayed away from most of the comics he did (until I had a Road to Damascus conversion), so I missed most of those 25 cent issues of his Fourth World comics.

Now getting the back issues is not so cheap. And why should it be--those comics had great value. Live and learn.

[paw broon]

The larger 25 cent issues from DC were a great find for me and it was those back-ups that sold me.  For me, more importantly than the Kirby stories, were the Plastic Man reprints, in Jimmy Olsen and the 100 pg. Giants.
That's the time I was getting back into comics, although my memory is a bit blurred now and I was intrigued by the early stories of Kirby's 4th. World. 
Loved Sandman. But the original uniform was much better.
As for Kirby, I was an avid reader of F.F. and Cap. America when they came out.  Cap. especially, as I'd never seen this exotic, colourful character before, G.A. comics not having been available here.  As his work deteriorated,  during and after Mr. Miracle, I read less and less of his new material and that affected my re-reading of his F.F. particularly, and I no longer take any great enjoyment in those early comics.  This is almost heretical, I suppose but, looking back, I just don't think they are any better than many other titles of the time or later '60's with Ditko's Spiderman beating the F.F. by a mile, in both art and story.
As for the comics, I found lots of them and still have them on my shelves, so they only cost me cover price.
A bit off topic all this as I haven't addressed the subject of The Guardian.

[jimmm kelly]

Well it is sort of Guardian related, since Kirby revived the Guardian (or a clone) and the Newsboy Legion in the JIMMY OLSEN comic, which is why reprints of the originals made sense for that book. I didn't buy many issues, as I say, but my dentist at the time had Fourth World comics in his waiting room, as I mentioned elsewhere. Not exactly a good association to have with a comic book.

Like Paw, I was just starting to get back into buying comics on a regular basis back then and trying to decide which titles I should follow.

What put me off Kirby was the way they said he was the King and all that. I thought that was a bit much for DC--they weren't Marvel and they didn't usually put one creator ahead of all the others. But not long after that I read ALL IN COLOR FOR A DIME which helped to turn me around and then KAMANDI after that made me see Kirby in a new light.

[Ed Love]

Hmm. I liked the Simon & Kirby archives hardcover. Thought the reproduction value was pretty darn good myself. If I had any quibbles, it would be that I don't think the last story was by them. It was more someone mimicking their style.

I was surprised in that I found myself really enjoying the stories for their own sake. I'm not a big kid gang fan and felt the characters would be tiresome. But, alternating reading a story or two of it and then a story or two of the Atomic Knights, and they held up pretty darn well. They were never designed to be read in one sitting anyway. But, I thought the stories were a little more literate than I was expecting. It was interesting to see the kids as being one step away from lives of crime at the beginning. And, while white-washed and romanticized, the poverty of their lives was still omni-present, not quite the fantasy of everyone being millionaires. Goes well with Packard's pulpish novels from earlier in the century, correlating poverty with crime and seeing it as having its own culture.

[paw broon]

I liked the Atomic Knights but wasn't it drawn by Murphy Anderson?  I'm a  bit of a fan of Mr. Anderson's work.
Perhaps I have to go back and read those kid gang stories.
Thinking back to when Kamandi came out, we had a lot of standing orders for it in the shop but I didn't like it. The orders dropped off quite quickly.

[profh0011]

Ed Love:
"It was interesting to see the kids as being one step away from lives of crime at the beginning."

The Newsboy Legion was no doubt inspired by the DEAD END kids. I've seen serveral of the early movies.  They're SCUM in the original film DEAD END, and actually even worse in the first sequel, CRIME SCHOOL, but that film's entire goal was to take those scum and, by the end, if just barely, begin to turn their lives around.  Otherwise, I doubt anyone would have wanted to see a series about them.

Of course, Jack Kirby was probably also greatly influenced by kids in his own neighborhood, since he grew up in exactly that kind of environment!

[narfstar]

I always enjoyed watching those Dead End/Bowery Boys movies

[profh0011]

I saw several of the DEAD END KIDS movies on TCM some years back.  Something I didn't actually notice until I started reading up on them was that apparently the names of the characters were almost never consistent from film to film!

There was a 2nd period where they became known as the EAST SIDE KIDS, which was notable because 2 different factions (or was it 2 different studios?) were making separate films featuring some of the actors over here, and some over there.  Apparently it got very confusing.

Then the 3rd period started when they became THE BOWERY BOYS.  By this time, apparently, they'd left their "SCUM" origins long behind them, and had evolved into likable louts.  I suppose one could compare such character growth (or whatever it was) to Dr. Smith on LOST IN SPACE...   

[josemas]

After filming Dead End for Samuel Goldwyn in the mid 1930s the boys were signed by Warner Brothers for several films and were generally known as the Dead End Kids.  They then moved to Universal and Monogram with some kids making films strictly for one studio and others appearing in productions for both studios.  The Universal flicks (and serials) generally billed them as the Dead End Kids and the Little Tough Guys while in the Monogram films they were billed as the East Side Kids.  New members were added to the original grouping as the series progressed.
The Monogram series outlasted the Universal series and in the later 1940s was relaunched as The Bowery Boys which ran through the late 1950s.

Best

Joe

[profh0011]

Crazy stuff!

Nice to know my memory isn't totally shot-- I thought I read 2 different studios were doing those at the same time.  It kinda figures Monogram would go longer than Universal-- I'm sure their motto was "quantity, not quality".

I suppose one could also say CRIME SCHOOL was either the "real" pilot or the "2nd pilot", as they weren't the focus of the first film, but were definitely in the 2nd one.  As I said, when I watched the film, it seemed the whole premise was to take these irredeemable characters with no likable qualities whatsoever, and, BY FORCE, turn them into somethng audiences would actually want to see again and again.

It's funny how Humphrey Bogart was in several of those films, each time playing a totally different character.


Regarding CRIME SCHOOL again, perhaps one could say Bogart was the model for The Guardian ?   

[josemas]

I would argue that Ronald Reagan comes even closer to being a model for Jim Harper.  While both Bogart and Reagan both appeared twice with the Dead End Kids during their 1938-1939 tenure at Warners, in Bogart's second appearance (in Angels with Dirty Faces-the best of the kid's six Warners' features, IMHO) he plays a crooked lawyer who is definitely not a model for a Jim Harper type.  Reagan (who appeared in both Hell's Kitchen and Angels Wash Their Faces) plays respectively a lawyer (named Jim) and an Assistant District Attorney who try to help out the kids.  Concurrently with his appearances with the Dead End Kids Warners also launched Reagan in a four film series as Brass Bancroft of the Secret Service.  So Reagan was definitely more of the law and order type in the public eye around this time.

And Henry, I would never consider your memory shot.  The way you manage to remember, in detail, things that happened four decades and more ago continually amazes me.

Best

Joe

[narfstar]

Yeah I am always amazed by the names thrown around when i can barely remember the lead characters name

[cain0730]

thanks everybody I bought the hardcover Simon and Kirby newsboy legion book off amazon exactly what I wanted also shanks for the info about mikes website that site has everything

[profh0011]

I've only ever seen a few of those movies, once apiece, years go on TCM.  I was thinking of the Bogart character from CRIME SCHOOL because it's the low point for the wretched B******s, and he tries to help, winds up framed of a crime as a result, and (correct me if I'm wrong), THEY wind up helping him, even though they spent most of the film distrusting him almost as much as the monster who was running the reform school (who turned out to be the film's main villain).

Also, physically, Bogart has more of a long, lean face, compared to Reagan's.

It's a funny thing... After seeing him in a few films (not just these), I got to really like Reagan... AS AN ACTOR.  (In more recent years, my opinion of his later career has been steadily plummetting and picking up more speed with every new thing I read about.)