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Flash Gordon

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topic icon Author Topic: Flash Gordon  (Read 3192 times)

The Australian Panther

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2020, 01:01:11 AM »

Prof, I agree with all you say about Don Heck!

Quote
I would count Sekowsky, and Don Heck among those 


My Original quote.

Sekowsky's best work in the Silver Age has to have been his run on Wonder Woman where he tried to make her a contemporary Kung Fu trained 60's woman. The run has been collected.

Here is an overview.
Farewell Mr. Sekowsky: Wonder Woman #194-6

https://frasersherman.com/2020/10/27/farewell-mr-sekowsky-wonder-woman-194-6/

And here is a Wonder Woman retrospective.  This is priceless because of the fact that the writer has sussed out that Sekowsky had Wonder Woman beat up Kanigher! Even names him!

When Wonder Woman Beat Up Her Former Longtime Writer

https://www.cbr.com/wonder-woman-beat-up-longtime-writer-mike-sekowsky-robert-kanigher/

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And sure enough, Sekowsky just drew Kanigher as the shoplifter dressed as a woman, and even named the character CREEPY CANIGUH! He wasn't even TRYING to hide that it was Kanigher! How DC let this obvious of an attack get by is beyond me. I guess Kanigher pissed off other people, too (Kanigher got the last laugh, of sorts, as DC later brought Kanigher back to get rid of everything Sekowsky did and Kanigher did it BRUTALLY, including his own nasty attack on another DC employee, but not Sekowsky, oddly enough.


Apparently there aren't many [who worked with him] who have good things to say about Kanigher.

Imagine Wonder Woman today, if Sekowsky's version had become canon. I much prefer it. Wonder Woman for me is the most unbelievable major DC character and has the messiest and silliest origin and backstory. Sekowski would have made Wonder Woman more like Marvel's Black Widow! This version has never even been used in the Multiverse. 

Sekowsky's work on Wonder Woman has been inked by Dick Giordano. Judging by their work, they had similar attitudes to the stories they wanted to tell, so I'm sure they were simpatico.
I much prefer Sekowsky's work that is in abundance here on CB+ and the work he did for Gold Key and Dell.
I didn't enjoy his work on JLA, [apparently neither did he]  not with Fantastic Four and Avengers for comparison also.       

Try this little gem!
King of Diamonds 1
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=38774

Cheers!
   
« Last Edit: November 22, 2020, 03:19:22 AM by The Australian Panther »
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profh0011

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2020, 11:10:12 PM »


It occurred to me that the artwork of comic strips is hampered by the quality of the paper its to be printed on. Comic book paper seems just a hair higher quality, though not always.
I remember when I was a youngster news papers were printed on the cheapest grainiest paper they could get.

Doing any very detailed drawings was futile, lines also had to be relatively thick.



On the other hand... I've got a DICK TRACY Sunday strip from late November 1941 framed on my wall.  The area of the art is 13-1/2" x 16-1/2".  I'm not sure how big dailies used to be, but I bet it was a lot bigger than for most of my lifetime.
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Drahken

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #27 on: November 22, 2020, 01:23:03 PM »

The 1980 live action movie was a classic, with a killer soundtrack (there's an awesome british commercial for some kind of cleaner which adapts the theme song. For those who haven't seen it, search for flash dog on youtube), though I think my fav version of flash gordon is the animated series by filmation, and the corresponding animated film.
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profh0011

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2020, 11:47:33 PM »

There's a strange story I'm sure MOST people are NOT aware of... mostly due to some very erroneous info put out by certain parties decades ago. 

Filmation-- Hanna-Barbera's biggest competitor in the 60s & 70s-- was getting really tired of being stuck in the "Saturday morning ghetto", especially when censorship had been so outragiously high for the whole of the 1970s.  They got ahold of the rights to adapt "FLASH GORDON"... a feat George Lucas had been UNABLE to do (the price tag was too high).  In his case, he made the right creative decision to do something (AHEM) "original". Cheaper and more creative.  But keep what I'm saying in mind, here.  It wasn't because someone else already had it... it was because he couldn't afford it.  This is important.

Filmation decided to aim high, and create an animated FEATURE FILM that would appeal to all ages, not just "the kiddies".  But there was a massive prejudice in America against such a thing, just as since the 1950s there had been against comic-books.  "Oh, those are ONLY for KIDS!"  The result was, they were unable to find a single distributor to put up the money needed to finish the most expensive project they had ever sunk their talent into.

The person who came to their rescue, crazy enough, was Raphaela DeLaurentis... who ran her father's European distribution operation.  She saw what they did, loved it, and they struck a deal.  She'd put up the money to finish the film, and in return, SHE got the theatrical distribution rights to "FLASH GORDON".  Of course, NOBODY in America wanted the film... but it was released theatrically in England and Europe-- and DID VERY WELL!!!

Her father--Dino-- had NEVER heard of "FLASH GORDON".  He loved what he saw-- and decided, on a whim, to DO ONE OF HIS OWN.  And, unlike anyone in Hollywood at the time, Dino was like an old-fashioned movie mogul.  When he put his mind to it, nothing deterred him.  His LIVE-ACTION film went from initial idea to OPENING DAY in under a YEAR.  When I first read this story, in the early 80s, I was floored.  NOBODY in Hollywood could have accomplished what he did.  (Well, except maybe Roger Corman... heh.)

Naturally, this also "explained" the inconsistent, even schizophrenic tone of Dino's film.  Turns out, the Italian crew wanted to do something VIOLENT and SEXY.  The Americans involved wanted to do Adam West's "BATMAN".  (Yep, seems EVERY damned "classic" character being revived in the late 70s was treated with UTTER CONTEMPT... like "DOC SAVAGE", "TARZAN", "FU MANCHU", "CHARLIE CHAN", even "BUCK ROGERS".)

Of all of those films from that period, "FLASH GORDON" is the only one that, to me, really "works"... almost in spite of itself.  Especially the last half-hour, which has a sense of MOMENTUM that just won't quit.

The one really tragic decision in the making of the film, which had an INCREDIBLE cast of actors, was the lead role... Sam Jones is the one really BAD actor in the thing.  Worse, he got into a disagreement with Dino at one point, walked off the film before it was released, and so 2 planned sequels NEVER happened.

Anyway, if you happen to watch the 1979 Filmation feature and the 1980 live-action film back-to-back... you'll probably notice that Dino's film feels like a PARODY of the Filmation film.  A lot of plot elements and story structure is similar.

Still unable to get their feature run theatrically in America-- OR EVEN ON TELEVISION-- Filmation made the decision to turn it into a Saturday morning serial... but what got on TV was mostly new, and much of the feature version was NEVER seen as part of that series, as it was too "adult" in nature for "the kiddies".  However... 3 YEARS later, NBC finally ran the thing in Prime Time on a Friday night.  By then, censorship had lightened up a bit.

Somehow, about a decade later, somebody else got the videotape rights... and the promotional text on the package told a story VERY different from the one I just told here.  They tried to make it look like the cartoon was inspired by Dino's film, INSTEAD of the other way around... and even suggested Dino had the rights long before STAR WARS happened.  Utter B***S***.



My own favorite FG remain the 3 Universal serials from 1936, 1938 & 1940, all of which, I've confirmed for myself, were BETTER-WRITTEN than the original newspaper strips.  Yep, even "...TRIP TO MARS", which was by far the least of the 3.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2020, 12:52:52 AM by profh0011 »
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crashryan

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2020, 02:09:00 AM »

A good-quality print of the feature is on YouTube at /watch?v=f6YhSjRiVio. With the added convenience of Japanese subtitles. The production values are way above anything else Filmation produced though they couldn't escape the TV look in layout and character design. Dr Zarkov sounds a bit too much like Boris Badenov. An interesting film though.
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Andrew999

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2020, 08:44:59 AM »

Thanks Crash - not seen this before, so that's me settled for this evening
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2020, 10:21:13 AM »

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They got ahold of the rights to adapt "FLASH GORDON"... a feat George Lucas has been UNABLE to do (the price tag was too high)


My thought on this:- If you were someone in Authority at King Features, would you not see the point in getting you properties, - Phantom, Mandrake, Flash, Popeye, Rip Kirby, Prince Valiant, Agent X-9,Jungle Jim, Steve Canyon, Brick Bradford and so on' adopted into high class TV and Movie Vehicles?

But, no, King seems to have suffered for a long time from the disease of organizational stupidity and contempt for these properties. Hearst should be spinning in his grave. Look at the merchandising revolution Lucas created with Star Wars. King Features could have had the major stake in that if they had let him do Flash. And 9 major films and several animated series as well.           
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2020, 12:30:44 PM »

I followed the link that Crash posted. I've just watched the movie. Loved it. Maybe more to say later!
But I also found this, which I didn't know existed.

Lensman: Power of The Lens (1987) Also movie length.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-td8Jp0hJVA

Looks good!
For those who don't know E.E.Doc Smith's Lensmen is considered to be the inspiration for the silver age (and current) Green Lantern. 
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crashryan

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2020, 06:59:43 PM »

The thing is, Star Wars started the whole comic book/Saturday serial/pulp magazine movie bonanza. No one knew going in what a gold mine Lucas would be unearthing. King Features hadn't done much to market their comics characters to movies or TV since the serials of the 40s. Their execs may have viewed Flash as kids' stuff. They may have figured that Lucas' projected theatrical feature would bomb and it wasn't worth their trouble to set things up. I wonder if a George Lucas Flash movie would have been the huge hit Star Wars was. A lot of Star Wars' appeal came from its flashy hardware and rowdy war-movie energy. Flash Gordon was more of a 19th-centuy costume adventure with spaceships tacked on. If Lucas had been faithful to the original his Flash film might have just come and gone, thus changing the course of human history.
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profh0011

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #34 on: November 24, 2020, 05:11:29 AM »

All great points, guys!

At another board, someone just had to argue with me, having been conned by the late-80s B.S.

The way I see it... somebody wanted Lucas to look better than he was.  In order to do this, they concocted the fiction that Dino had the rights already and Lucas couldn't get them. But among other things... from what i've read, Lucas wanted to do a "Flash Gordon" type film BEFORE he ever did "AMERICAN GRAPHITTI"!  But nobody would spring for the budget.  He did "GRAPHITTI", a low-budget teen film, to build his rep, and when it became a hit, he found it easier to raise a decent budget.

As I said,the story I read was from a magazine in the early 80s.  It "made sense" to me.  The whole idea that Dino DeLaurentis had NEVER EVEN HEARD of Flash, but was so inspired that he batted a film out in under 12 months, was astounding... and to me, 'explained" why that film was.... well... the way it was (heeheehee).


Something I really took note of, when I re-read the 1930s Sunday strips... whoever said "FG" had the best art but the WORST writing of any major adventure strip was dead-on right.  My 2nd time around (decades after my first), I loved the art, but the more I read, the more I wanted to THROTTLE the writer.  It gave me such an improved appreciation for the Universal serials, and I loved them already.  Flash was smarter, Dale was less stupidly jealous, and, DAMN!! --Zarkov had such a bigger part in the stories, and was more brilliant and less unhinged.

A perfect example of this... in the very 1st Sunday strip, a paranoid Zarkov, gun in hand, KIDNAPS Flash & Dale and forces them to come with him to Mongo on a SUICIDE mission, intending to crash his spaceship into the planet and possibly change its course from colliding with Earth.  In the 1936 serial, Flash reasons with Zarkov, and he & Dale VOLUNTEER to help try to save Earth.  Much more reasonable.  The 1979 Filmation feature did the same, in a different way.  The 1980 Dino film returned to the original version, but played it for laughs.

"Don't you want to save the Earth?"  "NO!!"

"Do you have a telephone we can use?" "Yes. It's-- RIGHT IN THERE."



Only Carol Hughes' Dale exhibited jealousy, in "...UNIVERSE", but unlike the comics, she had good reason.  Queen Fria was flirting with Flash right in front of Dale, and later, Sonya tried to make a deal with Flash. Flash just smiled and completely ignored Dale's jealousy, refusing to be drawn into her nonsense.  When Sonya escaped, Dale attacked her in a genuine catfight. It was more sensible for Dale to be angry at Sonya, than at Flash!


One of the very best things about the 1980 film is Brian Blessed as Vultan.  He's every bit as good as the guy in the 1936 film.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 05:17:53 AM by profh0011 »
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profh0011

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #35 on: November 24, 2020, 05:20:33 AM »

DOC SAVAGE, THE MAN OF BRONZE (1976) could have started the comic-book movie thing in style... but the whole film was uneven, from the story to the overall tone to certain bits of casting.

Ron Ely was PERFECT.  Johnny, Renny & Long Tom were damned good.  but the 2 most popular sidekicks, Monk & Ham, were TERRIBLE. And once past the initial scenes in NYC, the rest of the film felt like a tribute to the 1966 "BATMAN".  As were so many other "classic" character revivals that followed.
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crashryan

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #36 on: November 24, 2020, 06:07:20 AM »

Yeah, I had hopes for the Doc Savage movie. Ten years down the road and they still couldn't shake the notion that pop culture characters had to be camped up. i can imagine a discussion with the producers: "Come on, the paperbacks are selling well as they are, let's do it straight." "Nooo...we just can't take the chance. Better do it like Batman."

Thinking of Doc, I was surprised when Gold Key put out their Doc Savage one-shot. It was a respectful adaptation of "The Thousand Headed Man" with art by Jack Sparling (not his best work). For some reason they set the story in the present day, but since most of the action took place in a fantasy Central America the only effect it had was to have Doc fly a jet instead of a prop plane.
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Andrew999

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #37 on: December 22, 2020, 04:05:28 PM »

Ming the Merciless is a discriminatory stereotype - discuss

From the increasingly bizarre BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55409194

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Captain Audio

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #38 on: December 22, 2020, 11:42:09 PM »


Ming the Merciless is a discriminatory stereotype - discuss

From the increasingly bizarre BBC:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-55409194


Highly offensive towards all alien humanoid supervillains.
Also Prince Barron would lead one to believe that the British all live in trees.
As for Asian villains one need go no further than the history books to find dozens far more vicious and cruel than even the mighty Ming.
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crashryan

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #39 on: December 23, 2020, 02:26:53 AM »

Ming the Merciless was originally a "yellow peril" character. He and his people were colored pale yellow in the early strips. Whether it's a problem that a Swede (hello, Warner Oland) plays Ming in the movie is above my pay grade. However there's no denying the character's origins.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #40 on: December 23, 2020, 08:17:20 AM »

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Ming the Merciless is a discriminatory stereotype - discuss

And? the point?

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The BeebBeebSee(Goons quote)is  a discriminatory stereotype - discuss
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Andrew999

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2020, 01:26:06 PM »

I guess the point is - where is this leading us?

The BBC has started putting warnings at the start of old films/TV shows along the lines of 'Beware - this movie may offend you'

In the case of Flash Gordon, it's clear the people who might be 'offended' are Asians.

How long will it be before, instead of a warning, the BBC simply stops showing any old movies or TV series that might cause offence - in the public interest of course? How long will it be before YouTube and others cancel any copies of those movies and TV series on their system?

What happens then is that you create a black hole in history - not so very different from the days of Stalin erasing Trotzky from any photos of early Soviet Russia. In effect, history is distorted - and if we don't understand our own history, we don't really understand ourselves.

Until about a year ago, I lived in a world where people understood that old literature, movies, TV shows contained derogatory stereotypes but we were expected to be intelligent enough to understand that was the case and to realise that the world had moved on - but now it seems we all have to be protected from offence by the powers that be through the cancellation of old works that may cause offence.

How long before CB+ is asked  to remove all content that contains derogatory stereotypes that might cause offence - under threat of being fined, sued or cancelled if they do not - or even liable to a criminal conviction for committing a hate crime under the new laws being planned in Scotland, England (and no doubt elsewhere)?

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Captain Audio

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #42 on: December 24, 2020, 06:40:54 PM »

If having an Asian supervillain makes a film racist then all Jackie Chan movies are racist in some way or other.
In some Chan's villains are Chinese, Japanese or other Asians, in others the villains are those nasty European white devils.

It would seem that the existence of Unit 31 was downplayed or erased from history for decades because it bolstered the most radical yellow peril scenarios. The Rape of Nanking was impossible to hide.
The massacres of American troops by the North Koreans in the opening stages of the Korean conflict could not be swept under the rug.

Asian supervillains often turn out to be Eurasian, such as Dr No.

History has yet to be edited deeply enough to expunge the horrors of the Mongol invasions, or the Islamic invasions for that matter.

Look into the history of the Tongs in America. Fu Manchu and similar villains were based on real life monsters.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2020, 06:44:00 PM by Captain Audio »
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profh0011

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #43 on: December 25, 2020, 01:00:26 AM »


The thing is, Star Wars started the whole comic book/Saturday serial/pulp magazine movie bonanza. No one knew going in what a gold mine Lucas would be unearthing. King Features hadn't done much to market their comics characters to movies or TV since the serials of the 40s. Their execs may have viewed Flash as kids' stuff. They may have figured that Lucas' projected theatrical feature would bomb and it wasn't worth their trouble to set things up. I wonder if a George Lucas Flash movie would have been the huge hit Star Wars was. A lot of Star Wars' appeal came from its flashy hardware and rowdy war-movie energy. Flash Gordon was more of a 19th-centuy costume adventure with spaceships tacked on. If Lucas had been faithful to the original his Flash film might have just come and gone, thus changing the course of human history.


YES.

I remember Kenner got caught by surprise, and didn't have any "STAR WARS" toys ready for Christmas 1977.

Meanwhile... it seems to me if someone wanted to revive an old "space" adventure, "BUCK ROGERS" would have been a much better series.  The Glen Larson TV series, depending on who you ask, was either an INSULT to the character, or, just a lot of fun.  Maybe both.  I got the DVDs this year and have been enjoying it more than I ever imagined when it was new.  (Well, season 1, anyway.)

I've read that at some point, "FLASH GORDON" switched from being set in "the present" to "the future", with more science-fiction and planet-hopping, making it far more of a rip-off of "BUCK ROGERS" than when it started.  But I've read pitifully little of the comics-strips, other than the Alex Raymond Sundays and some of the much-later stuff in the papers (MUCH-later), which always seemed 2nd-rate.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Flash Gordon
« Reply #44 on: December 25, 2020, 05:34:07 AM »


I remember Kenner got caught by surprise, and didn't have any "STAR WARS" toys ready for Christmas 1977.

There's a good documentary called Plastic Galaxy that talks about Kenner and the Star Wars toys. Not having toys ready for Christmas and what they did is one of many things discussed.
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