[THX1968]

Well, I don't know if this is frowned upon, but I am a Photoshop jockey and I've 'remastered' (for lack of a better term) several previously scanned and uploaded books.  There are inconsistencies, particularly in some of the older stuff, in levels regrading color and/or brightness, contrast, etc.  With 'Phantom Lady', I have brought some of the darker offerings up to match the other brighter efforts presented, giving the line a consistent look.  This is for myself, however, I'd be more than happy to upload these 'remasters' if it is not considered rude, and gave proper credit to the original scanner.  I'm also working on several 'Whiz Comics' and 'Blackhawk' at the moment.  I am not trying to make the comics look 'mint', as I love the charm visible tape and cover/page wear affords the reader. 

[ComicMike]

I think this is a good idea and from the way you describe it, it really sounds like you are not changing the comics, but restoring them. As a "Whiz" fan, I would really appreciate the restoring from some issues. Can't you even upload one of the edited books to an upload provider and post the link here?

I'm really curious, what the other comic book friends have to say about it.

[Robb_K]

Well, I don't know if this is frowned upon, but I am a Photoshop jockey and I've 'remastered' (for lack of a better term) several previously scanned and uploaded books.  There are inconsistencies, particularly in some of the older stuff, in levels regrading color and/or brightness, contrast, etc.  With 'Phantom Lady', I have brought some of the darker offerings up to match the other brighter efforts presented, giving the line a consistent look.  This is for myself, however, I'd be more than happy to upload these 'remasters' if it is not considered rude, and gave proper credit to the original scanner.  I'm also working on several 'Whiz Comics' and 'Blackhawk' at the moment.  I am not trying to make the comics look 'mint', as I love the charm visible tape and cover/page wear affords the reader.

I always like to see comics in better scanned condition, and so must many other members here.  Instead of waiting for moderators to find your post on this thread, why don't you PM one of the moderators, directly, with your question, so it might get answered earlier?

[movielover]

Sharing this kinda effort is really frowned on. Some scanners/editors take a very dim view of this.

[paw broon]

I agree with movielover.  Many but not all scanners prefer their scans left as is.
Let's see if anyone else has an opinion.  I seem to remember something like this came up a few years ago.
Where I would like to see different versions is when a fiche copy is replaced by a "proper" scan.

[ComicMike]

If I provided a scan and someone said, they could improve the quality, I would say: "Okay, that's good, it makes people even happier, thanks."

I find it unfortunate, when a scanner says: "No", but of course, I understand it too.

[THX1968]

Thank you for the feedback, everyone.  I plan to finish off the Matt Baker run of 'Phantom Lady' (Fox Syndicate) first, and then I will upload the work and see how it fares.  The scans are all quite good, as all the digital information is solid enough to manipulate in Photoshop.  The work itself isn't that difficult, but it is time consuming.  I try to get through 18 pages a night.

In school (I attended art school and have a BA in Media Arts), we were taught that the scan had to be of a high quality, but that was not from where the final product was derived.  I'm not necessarily talking about comic books, but any material that may be used for any particular project.  I am also aware that not everyone has access to, or knows how to use Photoshop.  That said, I certainly don't intend to ruffle any feathers, and I believe (and hope) that you all may enjoy the effort.

[Andrew999]

I would certainly like to see it - although I note the sensibilities of those involved in the original upload.

Failing all else, if you can provide a link to a blog as the source, that would be great

[ComicMike]

Please, I would like to say, that the paintings of great masters in museums have also been restored, even the Sistine Chapel has been restored. So why shouldn't comics be in better quality restored too, if this possible?

The work of the scanners will always have great recognition, we all know that also a restored comic would not have been possible, without the previous one hard work of the scanners. 

[paw broon]

I'm very wary of having original scans manipulated without permission of the original scanners, which is impossible in some cases as they have passed away.  Where I believe we should be concentrating our efforts is in scanning other versions of a title. Even using Photoshop, which I know nothing about.  Then we would have alternative scans of a book side by side, as we have already in some cases. There are a couple of examples of my scans having been "enhanced", with my permission. 
If we all take care and scan as best we can, we have to accept that standard, or range of standards.  I wouldn't want Charlton comics manipulated to take out the original bad printing.  That's part of the appeal, imo.
More opinions please.

[movielover]

I'm trying to figure out where in Paw's and my replies, we said we would allow this.

Looking at Phantom Lady, as there are only 4 editors, despite the variety of names, I am pretty sure that most will not be okay with this.

[Andrew999]

Interesting discussion.

I don't see anything wrong with enhancing or even manipulating an old image - that's a well-established form of art that covers everything from pop-art collage to enhancing the stars on the front cover of a 50s movie magazine to cutting out Trotsky from earlier Soviet photo-images (well, okay, that last one's not such a good example :>)

I don't upload comics myself (because I don't have any) and I am extremely grateful and respectful to those who do use their time, money and resources in this way - thanks guys, I can't begin to tell you how much you've enriched my life.

Obviously, the uploaders own their images and they should be asked if they mind a new version being created - that's easily done using the 1-2-1 email facility here. If they say no, that's it, all over.

I'm not sure about those that have passed on, I guess the managers here would need to make a decision.

As I am a 'consumer' and not a 'producer' of the material here, I would love to see the original scan (the closest I will ever get to holding the real comic in my hands); any alternative scans that can be made from a separate source - but also any enhanced versions that THX would like to produce. They should be clearly labelled as such obviously.

It's a bit like the colorisation argument with old monochrome movies - can't see a problem with having both versions myself.

A blanket ban on enhancement would I think be going too far - and would undermine the mutually supportive ethos of the site - but yes, the 'owner' of the scan should agree first.

Okay, that's my tuppence worth - how about you?

[ComicMike]

My friends  ,

this is a serious post from someone, who loves the Marx Brothers, because that's who I am, but I can be serious too.

I'm a comic book beneficiary, I don't have anything to upload, I don't have any money to donate (sorry Mark), I can't contribute anything to keep the comic book treasure growing, so maybe scanners and owners of older Comics and website operators, say they don't care about my opinion, but I'm not angry about it. Why I'm so involved here is that I love comics.

I see the following problem. I think the scanners weren't doing their job on the side, it was a really tough job. Many have a 9to5 job, a family, and if they still have time, they scan old comics. I have about 300 photos from my life, that I would like to scan, but I'm too lazy for this work at the moment, so I get it. 

My dearest scanners, you are not the creators of comic books, you just scanned them and made them available to the world. You are archaeologists and we love you, but when archaeologists make their findings available to the world, it often happens that they have others correct their findings.

With many comics, I have the impression that they are covered with a gray veil and I think that it couldn't have been in the original. So I ask very specific questions and hope, not to get angry with me, but is it not possible, that some scanners have not set their scanning devices correctly? *sorry*

Please don't hit me, it was just a question and I'll say it again: I have at most respect for the owners of the old comic and the scanners, thank you.

I edited a comic page with the simple program "Microsoft-Paint.net", please see the result here, it is simple, but too time-consuming, but please imagine what a professional can do.

A simply experiment:

https://s12.directupload.net/images/200819/tzgcjtim.jpg

[Snard]

I am one of the people who scanned and/or edited many of the Fox (and Ajax) Phantom Lady scans. I know I can't stop someone from re-editing my scans, but I generally don't like it when people do that. On the other hand, I am perfectly willing to give someone the actual raw scans that I did, if they want to do their own version. That will almost always give better results than re-cooking a previously cooked scan.

Contact me privately if you'd like the raw scans for any of the Fox PL books I have. This includes issues 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21 and 22

[THX1968]

I simply want to read a comic that isn't gray.  I want the colors to pop.  I read the comics on my iPad with the Chunky app.  It's fantastic and displays the comics beautifully.  I appreciate the work that scanners do, but in my opinion, the end result can be so much better.  I've uploaded two examples of the redone work, Phantom Lady 13 & 14, but they have not been posted.  I can only assume that the work I'm doing will sadly be for myself only.  I should be clear that the work is really a basic touch up to enhance the enjoyment of the comic.  The time it would take to completely remaster the material, or to make it look 'new', is immeasurable.

[paw broon]

I've clicked them in.  Should be available very soon. All nice and bright and shiny.
Thanks for the work you've done.

[movielover]

I will say this, If books like this show up from people who I have been told they don't want it done, I WILL pull them.

[Yoc]

I put a huge amount of work into my edit and registration fix of Phantom Lady #19.
I would rather nobody re-edited those Phantom Lady books I've worked on.
Or any of my edits for that matter.

-Yocitrus (Yoc)

[CRX]

I am not trying to make the comics look 'mint', as I love the charm visible tape and cover/page wear affords the reader.

I thought you were going to preserve the look of the paper.

The texture of the paper is now missing from the Phantom Lady books you edited.
It detracts from some of the appeal for me.

I wouldn't regard those edits as improvements.

[paw broon]

Right, some of us have had a look at the "improvements".  I think we needed to see what the results would be, even if we were against working and re-editing on other peoples' scans. This has caused friction and, imo, and I agree with CRX, these manipulations aren't improvements and the look of the paper has not been preserved.  A personal thing with me is that I seriously dislike glossy paper, much preferring the look of newsprint for comics. 
Also, there seems to be something wrong with both files as they aren't loading up on our system.  They download ok.  Normally I'd take them apart and fix them, but I wont in this case.  What I propose to do is shove them in the suspect folder and delete them when comments have ended.
I suggest we post a stated understanding that working on someone's scan without permission is not acceptable. And taking into account what other members have written, anyone wanting to try to create a new version of a book should find different source material. There are examples of alternatives on site. 
Movielover is right,
"If books like this show up from people who I have been told they don't want it done, I (we)WILL pull them."
More thoughts/opinions, please.

[Andrew999]

I suggest we post a stated understanding that working on someone's scan without permission is not acceptable.

Absolutely agree with that. By scanning the document, the scanner has created a work that belongs to them - even if it is a scan. Permission must be sought.

If the scanner agrees for their scan to be used, however, then I guess it is up to the managers of the website to decide whether they want to show it as an alternative - they will need to make a judgement on quality.

I think that offering an alternative doesn't detract in any way from an understanding of the effort the original scanner invested in producing the original upload - or an understanding of why it has been posted in its current distressed form - if Paw and others feel that makes it more authentic, that's great

I haven't seen these particular scans so I can't comment on their quality - but I liked the sample clean-up that comickraut did. Personally, I'm not so concerned about the authenticity of the paper - I just like to read a decent comic and the cleaner the scan the better.

Ironically, wearing a different hat, I routinely clean-up images from the 30s and 40s for true crime articles that I have published elsewhere - the photos end up looking as though they were taken today - clean and crisp in high definition.

[The Australian Panther]

I suggest we post a stated understanding that working on someone's scan without permission is not acceptable.

Excellent idea. What stands out is that those who have created CB+ and those who keep it going, show the utmost respect to the original scanners. This, I believe, is a very positive characteristic of CB+. Only sensible, as those who contribute scanned books do so voluntarily with the only reward making the books available. And many pay money for the books and then make them available freely. And probably sometimes feel taken for granted.

I also see that its frustrating for those who see that with technology, (which they know how to use) the quality of some scans could be improved. These also are prepared to volunteer their time and should also be treated with respect. It's a somewhat complicated and emotional area.

While we have agreed that 'working on someone's scan without permission is not acceptable' Lets start from there.
It's not impossible [maybe unlikely] that if you contact the scanner personally he might give you permission.
There is also scope to create now archives of material.
However, consider this, The site's policy is not to remove an approved scan when a second  and somewhat improved scan becomes available. [respect for the original scanner - which I already stated is a good thing] So a Photo-shopped scan would go onto the site as another copy. 
Not up to now stated in this thread is also the circumstance that the site is huge and getting bigger - the space isn't infinite and has already had to be upgraded several times. And having multiple copies on the site is a contributing factor. 
Yes, there is a bit more involved in maintaining the site than you might imagine!
Cheers! 
         
       

[CRX]

The original scanners have the ability to perform a batch edit on their pages to deepen the colors and it would only take an additional minute per comic to perform that action.

It really doesn't take time or effort to replicate what THX has done.

It is not a lack of technical ability that prevents us from making those edits or not knowing how to adjust scanner settings.

If you see the original Raw scans and then look at the finished product you will see that we do put effort into getting comics to look the way we want them.

The point of the site is not to create something that looks like a digital reprint from Comixology.

The goal is to preserve these comics and when you go too far with the editing those comics are no longer preserved correctly.

It's the equivalent of using silver polish on old silver to make it look new. It removes the patina that adds character to the piece.

We have a balancing act between making the comics look nice while preserving the character of the old comic. Preserving the texture of the paper is one of the most important parts of preserving the character.

Although we do clone over tears in the paper, remove instances where people have written on the paper and fix other defects.

The end result of a good edit of an old comic should still look like an old comic but maybe one in fine or better condition instead of fair or poor condition. It shouldn't look like a reprint.

You can't bring back the texture once it's removed.

There are comic readers like CDisplay Ex that can enhance the colors of the comic you are reading and may be a better option than editing the book.

[Robb_K]

I think there are two main goals in uploading comic books to this website: One is to reproduce the comic book's pages to as close a condition to that of how the original pages looked, and two, to make them as readable as possible (allowing altering pages that are partially ruined or destroyed), and adding in replacement pages when a decent quality original page isn't yet available.  Original scanners' scans shouldn't be worked on without permission from the scanner.  Newer, improvements to substandard condition pages should be uploaded in a new ("improved") scanned version of the book, so we have one version of as close to the originally printed issue as possible, and an "enhanced for reading pleasure" version, for those who want that.

[CRX]

Perhaps the enhanced versions could have a Mediafire or Google Drive link to download to save space and other resources on this site?