in house dollar bill thumbnail
Comic Book Plus In-House Image
 Total: 43,548 books
 New: 84 books




small login logo

Please enter your details to login and enjoy all the fun of the fair!

Not a member? Join us here. Everything is FREE and ALWAYS will be.

Forgotten your login details? No problem, you can get your password back here.

Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust

Pages: [1]

topic icon Author Topic: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust  (Read 2002 times)

SuperScrounge

  • VIP
message icon
Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« on: November 29, 2021, 08:11:01 AM »

This is considered to be the first of what we now call graphic novels. The "picture novel" It Rhymes With Lust. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=62011

A 1950 experiment that might have changed how comics are sold had things gone differently.

It falls into the crime genre. 132 pages. Black & white. Some of you may have read it already, but we've had some new people since it first went up so it should be new to others. Enjoy.
ip icon Logged

The Australian Panther

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2021, 08:57:03 AM »

Wow! You have raised the bar high! Well done.
ip icon Logged

gregjh

message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2021, 12:24:44 PM »

Now this looks like something a little different. I'm not sure if I'll last the full 132 pages but I'll give it a go!
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2021, 10:32:57 PM »

This graphic novel issued by St. John in 1950 was an interesting experiment.  I wonder why it failed.  It was probably too underpublicised, and too unknown by the people who would have wanted to buy it. The comic book readers probably didn't know about it, and the pulp novel readers probably would much rather had an all-text book, rather than "a kiddie book" full of comic book panels.  I don't think that the serious comic book readers would have been scared away by the 25 cents cost.  I wonder if it was placed mostly on the pulp novel or comic book shelves or spinning racks?

The artwork was excellent, although, I don't like the broken line drawings in the background.  The story was good, decently plotted, and fast moving.  It held my interest to read it all in one short sitting.  The portrayal of political/big business graft and power struggle was quite a bit oversimplified and glossed over, as is the case with a palette of so little space given to show it.  But quite entertaining.  I had trouble believing that the protagonist was a drunkard, and in love enough with the villainess to compromise his basic values.  Those characteristics weren't established with enough scenes to make the reader believe them.  I got the feeling That Weber had good values of right and wrong, and fairness, and should have run as far away from Rust as possible back in his original home (New York?), or, at LEAST, after seeing that she planned to run her deceased husband's business/political empire with inhuman greed, with no regard at all for the welfare of all the community and willing to even sacrifice random lives of innocent people to gain the slightest additional money or power.  As soon as he heard her plans to get rid her rival, which included a near-death beating, but implied his murder, Weber should have started his campaign to bring down her empire.  He shouldn't have been wavering, deciding whether or not he should HELP Rust.  He just wasn't believable as a character, who was a wishy-washy moral weakling and coward, and then, after seeing the light that anyone with a sense of fair play and right and wrong would have seen after a few days with Rust, would have discovered.  A lot of that problem is caused by not having enough room to show that Rust wasnt so bad early, and didn't show her true colours until later in the story.  Without the reader actually viewing that necessary slow development in actual scenes in panels, it is only hearsay, which is not experienced by the reader.  The first impression that 132 pages is a very long story is misleading, as these are only 2, or, at most, 3 blown up panels per page, and so, the equivalent of only, maybe the 68 pages of the early 1940s comic books.  And, that is really too short to do more than gloss over the necessary background to a story of this scope.  But that is the way most comic book novelettes have to be treated,  And, I cannot deny that it was entertaining and held my interest straight through.  It would have made a good 1940s noir "B" film.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 04:13:34 AM by Robb_K »
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2021, 09:09:10 AM »

I also read St. John's second and last issue in that series' story, The Case of The Winking Buddha , in its only comic book format book, reprinted in Authentic Police Cases #25.  The artwork is the same excellent level, but the story is much better, to my taste, being a lot more realistic with respect to plotting, pacing (author's revelation of clues to the reader, suspense, climax, and epilogue), and believability of motivations of the characters.  It's a shame that poor sales, especially of #2, was the death knell for the experimental graphic novel series.  But, it was probably a matter of not marketing the correct format to its proper audience.
ip icon Logged
Comic Book Plus In-House Image

The Australian Panther

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2021, 10:13:32 AM »

I find myself wondering if marketing a comic book, at that time a format widely seen as being exclusively for children, with the word LUST in the title, was a good marketing move in1950?
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2021, 06:06:29 PM »


I find myself wondering if marketing a comic book, at that time a format widely seen as being exclusively for children, with the word LUST in the title, was a good marketing move in1950?


Clearly, it was a mistake.  The size of the book was more for the pulp novel market.  But adults who buy that genres books think that books filled with illustrations are for little children, and they would also rather have the many thousands of extra words that could be added to a book containing that many pages to add to the sketchy plot background and added scenes needed to actually provide tangible clues to substantiate the motivations of the characters, to make their actions understandable, and thereby, believable. So, few adults were going to buy these books for themselves to read, in any case.  On the other hand, children, who could afford the 25 cent price, likely wouldn't even notice these books, if they were shelved together with the pulp text novels, rather than with the comic books (which I believe, DID happen in many cases, leading, at least partly, to the lack of expected sales totals.  There were no book size figures on its CB+ info page.  I wonder if it was pocket size, or had standard comic book dimensions?  Being a pocket size might have had it shelved incorrectly in the pulp novel rather than comic book sections at neswstands and in shops.
ip icon Logged

crashryan

  • VIP & JVJ Project Member
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2021, 05:55:18 AM »

I first read It Rhymes With Lust when it was posted four years ago, so I re-read it to refresh my memory. It's a fascinating project, more significant for its place in history than for its content. The book brings up a number of interesting points.

Launching a new format like a "picture novel" would have been quite a challenge. I can understand why St John might have figured it would work. From what I gather online It Rhymes With Lust was published in digest size, roughly 5x7 inches, similar to British picture libraries. Though paperback books were the big thing in the 50s, quite a few publishers issued one-shot novels, both originals and reprints, in digest format. They followed the paperback formula: lurid titles and blurbs combined with equally lurid cover paintings. Though both paperbacks and digests emphasized sleaze, the digests tended to be sleazier--at least in terms of what they promised--than their square-backed cousins. Crime, sex, and tough guys were the dominant themes.

I can imagine St John intending Lust to be shelved with the digest novels. It was definitely aimed at the same adult readers as paperbacks and digests. While comic books enjoyed large adult readerships during WWII and Korea, they were nevertheless generally considered to be kid stuff. Lust would likely miss its target audience if displayed with the comics. Besides, a digest wouldn't fit on a spinner rack and it'd quickly be buried among the 7x10 inch comic books on newsstand shelves. If I'm right about St John's intentions, I think he missed a bet by using a comic-art style cover. Lust would certainly have stood out from all the painted-cover digests, but a colored pen drawing wouldn't have had nearly the same shelf appeal. Compared to the bursting bosoms and provocative poses of its neighbors Lust's cover would look downright stodgy.

This brings up another point: the conservative nature of both story and art. Despite occasional mentions of torrid embraces and passionate kisses, the sex angle is limited to one shot of Hal with rumpled shirt and loosened tie following a full-page kiss. Given that the sexual tension between Hal and Rust is central to the story, one would expect more of it, especially in a book aimed at adults. Even the "good girl art" is dialed back. There was more lingerie and skin in Leslie Turner's Captain Easy newspaper strip than there is here. This may have been a deliberate choice. St John romance comics are famous for double entendre dialogue on the covers but straight-arrow content inside. Even Matt Baker's Canteen Kate, wearing a shirt open to the navel, had her cleavage edited out (as is demonstrated by the fact that a couple of times it was accidentally left in). Perhaps Archer St John wasn't comfortable with sleaze. One can imagine how Fiction House or EC--or Fox!--would have handled this material. On the other hand St John may just have been covering his tail. Though paperbacks abounded with (written) nudity and obsessive descriptions of female breasts, in 1950 actually picturing such stuff in a newsstand magazine could land you in jail.

Lust owes a great debt to paperback novels. The story uses a postwar dramatic trope that was recycled endlessly in paperbacks and, to a lesser extent, noir movies for over two decades: a damaged hero struggles against the overwhelming influence of an evil woman possessing vast power and irresistible sexual allure. He either triumphs over the evil, as Hal does here, or he's destroyed by it, as are the heroes of David Goodis novels.

Consider that writers Arnold Drake and Les Waller were both in their mid-twenties, an age at which we're strongly influenced by whatever is popular at the time. It Rhymes With Lust might be their shot at writing a sleaze paperback in comics form. The effort falls short on several levels. The main problem is Hal's relationship with Rust. The "evil woman" trope requires the damaged hero, who is basically good, to be consumed by lust to the point that he performs increasingly evil deeds despite knowing they're wrong. He can't help it. Run though he might, the hero struggles in vain to escape the evil woman's influence. She just shows him her heaving bosom and gives him a torrid embrace and once again he's ready to murder for her.

Personally I could never take this theme seriously, but it was surprisingly popular, part of the whole hate/fear-strong-women thing that persists to this day. To sell it an author must convince the reader that the despicable villainess is so sexually overwhelming that no man can resist her. Rust Masson is evil enough, but we never see evidence of an animal allure potent enough to derail Hal's conscience. We're told she has that allure, but without more evidence Hal comes off as a wishy-washy dummy who can't make up his mind, not a tortured being fighting for his soul. This is partly due to the self-censorship mentioned above but also is a side effect of space constraints.

Throughout the story things that need time to develop--Hal's romance with Audrey, his gradual surrender to the Dark Side, Rust's growing political and business power--are rushed through in a few panels or worse, a caption or two. The complex plot might have worked in a paperback novel, but It Rhymes With Lust simply hasn't enough pages to contain it all. Hal's big scene where he chooses between addiction to Rust and alcohol versus loyalty to Audrey and honor doesn't work because Hal's alcoholism (a prominent postwar heroic imperfection) had until then played no part in the story. Hal hardly even drinks, much less "escapes into the bottle." We'd have been better off without this subplot. Overcoming his addiction to Rust  would have been drama enough--though Hal would have been left with nothing to throw at the mirror.

Matt Baker's art is good throughout. I prefer his own inking to Ray Osrin's but that's a minor quibble. The art is finished as if it were for a color comic, with large open spaces and minimal rendering. The result is a bit flat. They've used Ben Day tones to add interest but these are applied inconsistently. Sometimes the tones enhance a panel, making the foreground pop and the background recede. Other times they weaken the ink lines and wash the panel out. I'd rather they'd have gone the Roy Crane-Leslie Turner route and used Doubletone paper with its more useful choice of greys.

It Rhymes With Lust was a good try. I'm sorry Picture Novels didn't catch on. Some articles I've read state that the second one, The Case of the Winking Buddha, was published in the same format as Lust. Does anyone know if this is so? I'd thought it only appeared in Authentic Police Cases #25.
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2021, 06:23:07 AM »




Throughout the story things that need time to develop--Hal's romance with Audrey, his gradual surrender to the Dark Side, Rust's growing political and business power--are rushed through in a few panels or worse, a caption or two. The complex plot might have worked in a paperback novel, but It Rhymes With Lust simply hasn't enough pages to contain it all. Hal's big scene where he chooses between addiction to Rust and alcohol versus loyalty to Audrey and honor doesn't work because Hal's alcoholism (a prominent postwar heroic imperfection) had until then played no part in the story. Hal hardly even drinks, much less "escapes into the bottle." We'd have been better off without this subplot. Overcoming his addiction to Rust  would have been drama enough--though Hal would have been left with nothing to throw at the mirror.

It Rhymes With Lust was a good try. I'm sorry Picture Novels didn't catch on. Some articles I've read state that the second one, The Case of the Winking Buddha, was published in the same format as Lust. Does anyone know if this is so? I'd thought it only appeared in Authentic Police Cases #25.


I couldn't agree more that there wasn't nearly enough room to develop the plot and characters, and their motivations.

I too, have read that St. John DID release the second graphic novel in this series (The Case Of The Winking Buddha), in the same format, and they stated that its lack of decent sales was the reason for cancelling the series.  They also stated that the story was REFORMATTED to comic book format, and REPRINTED in Authentic Police Cases #25.  I have never seen a copy of the graphic novel, but I never pay attention to that sort of book, unless I am looking for a particular classic detective story.  But, according to the wording of the articles, I would assume that it WAS not only printed up, but issued to distributors, and sold.  As not many of them sold, it is likely to be significantly rarer than Issue #1.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 04:15:24 AM by Robb_K »
ip icon Logged

gregjh

message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2021, 07:03:13 AM »

Well I was wrong. I read this from cover to cover and I'm glad I did.

The scan was first class as was the drawing and lettering/font used, making this a compelling read. The story was excellent, too. I'm tempted to compare it to relatively modern works such as LA Confidential or House of Cards, which means it was well ahead of its time. The style of some panels reminds me of those used in many Batman graphic novels, for example on page 14 when it "zooms out" (is there an equivalent term for this among comic artists?) to show the signed photo of the politician in front of the embracing couple, providing excellent forshadowing. Perhaps once again this is a sign that this work had enduring influence.  The 132 pages moved quickly as the exposition, though necessary , was simple and after that the plot moved swiftly, with several moving parts. The full story arc was so well paced with every area - introduction, situation, adversity, redemption, conclusion - covered for both main characters.

In conclusion, this was quality all around. With that said, I'd be equally satisfied with a simple Christmas funny or Christmas tale next week!

NB I make a point of reading other people's thoughts after I have read the comic myself, to try and avoid influencing my own view. It's interesting that others found the plot rushed where I felt it was well-set. That said, I must agree the alcoholism angle was rushed. Perhaps it bothered me less as I already imagined Hal as the hardboiled detective, or hardboiled journalist in this case.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2021, 01:06:12 PM by gregjh »
ip icon Logged

SuperScrounge

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Book Group #259 - It Rhymes With Lust
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2021, 08:25:22 AM »

Man, I was unbelievably busy the last two weeks and had to make time to read this Sunday.

Not a bad story, although I did think it was overwritten. Admittedly the writers may have not known who the artists would be and couldn't trust the artwork to carry some parts of the story, but it would have been nice if the dialogue could have been edited a bit more.

Considering the type of book story they were aiming at could be a little spicier and suggestive for an adult audience, I think they made it too tame to be a success. They should have gone for more cheesecake shots to spice it up.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I was expecting a scene showing that Audrey was playing Hal as well, rather than being a pure innocent.

Several faces reminded me of the art of John Byrne. I wonder if he had a copy of this book when he was learning to draw?


Wow! You have raised the bar high! Well done.

Thank you!  :D
ip icon Logged
Pages: [1]
 

Comic Book Plus In-House Image
Mission: Our mission is to present free of charge, and to the widest audience, popular cultural works of the past. These are offered as a contribution to education and lifelong learning. They reflect the attitudes, perspectives, and beliefs of different times. We do not endorse these views, which may contain content offensive to modern users.

Disclaimer: We aim to house only Public Domain content. If you suspect that any of our material may be infringing copyright, please use our contact page to let us know. So we can investigate further. Utilizing our downloadable content, is strictly at your own risk. In no event will we be liable for any loss or damage including without limitation, indirect or consequential loss or damage, or any loss or damage whatsoever arising from loss of data or profits arising out of, or in connection with, the use of this website.