[narfstar]

OK here is a novel idea What about setting up a fund for the purchase of expensive but not extravagant books?  For instance Metropolis has a FN 6.0 Blazing #1 for $175.  Stupid thing is slabbed but we woule want it to scan.  A fund could purchase it. Scan it and then put it on ebay to get as much back as possible.
Blazing #1 might not be the best example here as I would prefer unslabbed for less where we can get back almost as much as we paid and maybe sometimes more.  Or we could possibly donate some of our already scanned books and put them on ebay or better trade them and get something we need then put it back up and sell it.  Get the idea

[bchat]

Sounds like a good idea.  Maybe take a small percentage from paid subscriptions from members and set it aside for this fund, plus/or add an option to donate directly to a seperate fund for purchasing comics.

Problem is, how would it be determined which comics are purchased?  Set-up a poll and vote on order of importance (for things that may pop-up on eBay) or establish a committee to make a decision if something is found on a normal retail site?

[rez]

Always a good idea to gather forces for the greatest impact toward saving and presenting these books while we can. The idea carries merit.

Perhaps the greatest potential toward being able to continually build the database of books up on a consistant basis

is making ample use of the behind the scene collections of the many newbies and lurkers who seem to be  arriving in greater and greater numbers

by providing an easier process for a site visitor to upload their books to the site.

Many if not most have access and a working knowledge of a scanner but the furthur process of getting it to the site here can seem daunting to those that have a lesser working knowledge of computers.

Just recalling a number of newbies that have offered their books in posts during my several month short stay here and that was the end of the communication with them.

An easier process for the simple collector that has stumbled his way on here will help tap those unknown wells of collections that are lying in wait to be discovered.

Who knows what numbers might be readily made available.

Just a thought to toss in the hat.

Cheers

[Yoc]

You make several good points Rez.
Sadly I can't tell you when or if the Upload link on the site will return.  I found it easier to handle than the FTP when I first got here and it saves Aussie or 'whomever' the extra work I always thought.  But until it's back the FTP is the only other way to add books so we are stuck with it.

I've done the best I can to teach any newbies with scans how to add via the FTP and am proud to say Powder Solvang has been going great ever since! (I know I've taught a some others but they're names have slipped my mind, sorry!)

But you're very right - just the process of scanning a book, knowing what setting to shoot for, etc, then packaging it and finally uploading it... it's a daunting task to some newbies out there.  The only other way I can see of doing this easier for the newbie scanner is if he can find a another scanner here on the site willing to scan his books for him.  But there's a big element of trust required for that to happen!

While I commend anyone willing to enter into a 'buying club' I haven't personally seen them work that often or for very long.  But far be it from me to stop any of you that want to get one rolling!  We'd all benefit from it in the end.  I think the POLL idea isn't bad but you'd also have to agree on a maximum price as well as who would be doing the actual bidding and scanning and finally what would be done with the book once it was scanned?  Lots to consider.

-Yoc

[phabox]

Rez and Yoc both bring up good points, i'm an old hand at the scanning game AND a VIP member here but i've never been able to master the art of uploading to this site so a vote of THANKS to Dan and Yoc for doing the 'donkey work' of uploading my work without who's help NONE of my stuff would be here at all.

Put me in charge of the 'buying fund' and i'd no doubt end up grabbing LOADS of non PD books, yes I know its bad but its also FUN , trouble is it would'nt help the site much.

Seriously, loaning books for scanning has some merrit dispite the trust issue, there are at least two or three guys here I would have no worries about passing my stuff to, but of course I already have a scanner ( and enouth free time to use it) so don't need anyones help there.

My 'Trust' worries would be sending them through the mail, and BELIEVE me I know what i'm talking about here after serving an eleven year stint ( you get less for murder) in the London Foreign Section of the UK Postal Service.

Still I have to say in five years of buying and selling on Ebay I've only lost one book ( value about $2.00) -SO FAR !

One way around this problem until some trust between scanner and comic book owner developes would be a returnable deposit.

A Book is decided apon, the scanner then sends the owner the value of the comic as a deposit, the owner then releases the comic to the scanner who carries out the work and returns the book.

When the owner gets his book back he should check it for any damage and if happy that its in 'as sent' condition return the scanners money in FULL.

In the case of any damage during scanning the owner could deduct a 'penalty charge' from the total before refunding the money.

if both parties are happy they then move on to the next scanning project.

I Guess there are those here who can and WILL find faults with the above idea but there is NO 'perfect answer' as I see it, its just a case of 'suck it and see' but it COULD work if given a try.

-Nigel

[bchat]

I think the POLL idea isn't bad but you'd also have to agree on a maximum price as well as who would be doing the actual bidding and scanning and finally what would be done with the book once it was scanned?

Set-up a thread allowing all members to make suggestions of books to acquire.  This way people get a say in regards to what books are actively sought.  Then take those suggestions and create a poll to create a "Priority List".

A Committee (about five to seven volunteers choosen by all members, plus the Administrator/Moderators) would be in-charge of finding/acquiring books from the list, searching through eBay or retail websites, bringing their findings to the rest of the committee with all involved making the final decision of which books to buy first.  As to eBay, only one member should get involved in bidding to avoid the potential problem of two committee members bidding against each other for the same thing.  With regards to "maximum price", hopefully the members of the committee will have a working knowledge of what books in various conditions are worth before committing to buy them.

Obviously, Committee members should be able to scan/upload any books purchased so that there isn't a "who wants to do this one" discussion.  As for what to do with the books once they've served their purpose?  Sell them on eBay (with Buy-It-Now or a high Reserve Price), taking that money to buy more books.  A thread on this board letting all members know which books that were purchased by The Committee are being listed on eBay allows them to buy the books themselves if they want.

Members of The Committee should be committed to the project and be easily available to help make decisions, especially concerning items found on eBay where time is a factor.  The folks collecting donations for this website need to be involved because they're the ones collecting (and in control of) the money.  Leaving the money in the hands of any one of the committee members is asking for trouble, as it's far too easy for people on the internet to simply disappear.

[rez]

This is an interesting and important thread as it deals directly with the mission of GACuk if I surmise the situation accurately
is that being the preservation of goldenage comics via the electronic media for presentation to the immediate and future generations. A most noble cause worth standing shoulder to shoulder in the joining of forces with. Strength in numbers.

And necessary as the main stream publishers sure have been pulling a boner on the subject for a goodly number of years now

and if they cared and were actually going to be doing something substantial they would have been involved long ago. Such is big business.

Seeing the size of the numbers of patrons that post here and are actively involved in presenting their scans to the site is rather small

in a personal evaluation of the possibility of a buy it/sell it fund it seems like much work and complexity involved tho' the dividends of developing a long term working system such as this should be worthwhile.

Still, regarding the present situation dealing with the complications of sending scans to the site, if the time and effort needed to remedy this problem were addressed, the resulting numbers of new books presented to the site also may prove to make the labor worth the while also.

What year was the first arrival of the GACuk site?




one team, one fight

[phabox]

Problem with a thing like this is everyone thinks its a good idea so long as 'someone' else actually does it.

Saving money must be one of the chief aims  of any enterprise of this kind and buying a book from the US, PAYING to have it shipped to the UK for scaning and then PAYING AGAIN to send it on to Canada where its next owner is waiting is time consuming, COSTLEY, and risky the more often a book goes into the mailing system the more chance for it to go 'missing' also its a lot of traveling for any average sixty years old, especialy one made out of paper !

Sadly that what Yellowjacket Comics_010 will have to go through before it shows up here.

My point ?

To keep costs down comics should be bought and STAY in their counties of origin, having said that there are plenty of U.S. Books in England often for sale at resonable prices both on Ebay and Comic Marts which is where the bulk of my collection has come from, at a guess less then Ten of my books needed to cross the atlantic to reach me.

The Bottom Line ?

I'm happy to locate, pursue, buy AND scan any interesting books that are available here in the United Kingdom.

Mind you I WOULD like some cash UPFRONT before I start bidding.

And 'NO' I would'nt just 'vanish' as soon as I got my hands on some money, I've been around now for at least five years and would hope  that my track record speaks for me by now.

-Nigel

[JonTheScanner]

I have borrowed comics to scan (always a bit scary as you don't want to damage them), loaned comics to scan, and participated in joint purchase ventures.  All of these things can work.  However ....

I don't really think an ongoing, organized purchase-scan-resell fund would work.  I believe there would end up with too much friction about what comics to get.  

"We have $100 just sitting there, let's get ABC comics and scan it."

"It's not just sitting there, we agreed to wait until we have $125 to get XYZ #1"

"You all agreed to that before, but there are new people now."

etc.

As I siad I've done this before, but it was always specifically keyed to an issue.  All American #100, Forbidden Worlds #79, etc.

I would hate to have anythign come up that disrupts the pleasant atmosphere of sharing here.

[cimmerian32]

I am a collector who chooses to share scans of the books I collect, for the preservation of an artform...

I think a lot of golden age scanners are similarly motivated.  Not sure how a purchasing collective would influence that...

But, regardless, said collective would have to lay down fairly restrictive guidelines concerning - Who scans?  who edits?  who controls the cash flow?  who decides what to do with the books after scanning?  Simply buying to scan and resell is a noble concept, but scanning can be hazardous to the condition of a comic, resulting in a much lower sale price than the initial buy price...  And selling can be a huge pain as well...  My advice would be to NEVER assign a grade to books being sold, post-scan, merely provide nice big pictures, and a detailed description of whatever damage is on the book...  As an ebay seller, I have had far more success with selling books with no reserves and low starting bids, then with high reserves or fixed pricing...  but, above all else, honesty in your dealings is the biggest deciding factor on how well you do as a seller...

If ya'll decide to do this, pick your scanners carefully, and be prepared for the collective to take monetary hits on scanner damage. 

That said, I definitely hope it goes well!

Cimm

[OtherEric]

I would not, personally, be willing to contribute to such a fund.  I wouldn't feel comfortable doing something like that with a book over about $100-$200; and I can at least occasionally afford to get such a book on my own.  What I might be willing to personally do is loan people some of the books I have if they think they could get a better scan out of the book.  I know my skills, tools, and willingness to take the time are limited.  The list of people I think are better enough at scanning to make that worth doing is quite limited, though. 

[bchat]

Who scans?  who edits?  who controls the cash flow?  who decides what to do with the books after scanning?

"We have $100 just sitting there, let's get ABC comics and scan it."   "It's not just sitting there, we agreed to wait until we have $125 to get XYZ #1"   "You all agreed to that before, but there are new people now."

That's why I suggested the "committee" idea.  People volunteer for it, all members vote for them, and a small group of elected members has final say on what happens with the money and which books are purchased.  Five people would be ideal for something like this, as you would need a small group that could communicate with each other relatively quickly to take action on things such as when a desired book shows-up in an eBay auction.  A thread/poll would allow all members to suggest books that this site doesn't currently have, and from that list the smaller group could decide what the best course of action to take would be.

Saving money must be one of the chief aims  of any enterprise of this kind and buying a book from the US, PAYING to have it shipped to the UK for scaning and then PAYING AGAIN to send it on to Canada where its next owner is waiting is time consuming, COSTLEY, and risky the more often a book goes into the mailing system the more chance for it to go 'missing' also its a lot of traveling for any average sixty years old, especialy one made out of paper !

You raise an interesting point here, in that there would need to be people located in more than one country ... at least one member in the UK and one located in the USA.  The need for such a representation would cut-down costs on S&H.  Most sellers I've dealt with on eBay have no problem shipping to a different address than what they are provided through eBay or Paypal, if you contact them properly.  I'm not quite clear what is meant by "ship it on to Canada where it's next owner is waiting" .... why would there be a need for additional shipping?

phabox

And 'NO' I would'nt just 'vanish' as soon as I got my hands on some money, I've been around now for at least five years and would hope  that my track record speaks for me by now.

I was just pointing-out the fact that trust would be an issue for some members regarding who was part of the "buy/scan/sell" group.  Obviously, your track record speaks volumes (and it's not just about how long you've been here) and trust wouldn't be an issue for someone like yourself.  Someone who simply shouts "I'll do it" has little in the way of respect from other members if they haven't shown that they can contribute to this site in a constructive way.

cimmerian32 

Simply buying to scan and resell is a noble concept, but scanning can be hazardous to the condition of a comic, resulting in a much lower sale price than the initial buy price...  And selling can be a huge pain as well...  My advice would be to NEVER assign a grade to books being sold, post-scan, merely provide nice big pictures, and a detailed description of whatever damage is on the book...  As an ebay seller, I have had far more success with selling books with no reserves and low starting bids, then with high reserves or fixed pricing...  but, above all else, honesty in your dealings is the biggest deciding factor on how well you do as a seller...

Occasionally good deals can be found on eBay and sometimes books slip through the cracks, but only for auction-style listings.  Reselling the book through No-Reserve auctions is, in my opinion, a bad idea since you run the risk of only one person being interested in the book for the limited time it's available, resulting in a possible loss on the money invested.  Golden Age books are not that easy to come by compared to books from the last 30-40 years, so as long as the book isn't misrepresented, getting the money invested back from the sale of the book shouldn't be a problem.  Would a "No-Reserve Auction" move faster than a "Buy-It-Now" listing?  Yes, but you'ld lose money in the long run.

Problem with a thing like this is everyone thinks its a good idea so long as 'someone' else actually does it.

Too early to say for sure, but I think you may be right and that nothing might come out of this discussion, which is a shame as together each accomplishes more.  The first order of business, though, should be hammering-out a way this should work, limiting the amount of mistakes/bad decisions people could make once it got rolling.

[narfstar]

I think getting books in good or below condition is best.  Less damage to the value from scanning.  It would be a shame to cut a fine book down to good.  Some of the books that I am thinking of cost $50 or more in good condition.

[narfstar]

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmikescomicwarehouse

Has several books that would fit the buy/sell idea

[phabox]

I Was using the Yellowjacket issue to illustrate a point, Narfstar spotted it as a US Ebay 'Buy it Now' book but I think many of us were put off by the price as it was low grade.

I Then offered to try and make an offer on it at which time I became aware of Phil a Canadian YJ fan keen to add the book to his collection but sadly ( for us) not in a position to scan it.

I Contacted Phil and it was decided that I should take the plunge and buy this comic at the asking price and have it shipped to the UK so that I can scan it.

At this time I am still awaiting its arrival, but once it does 'fly' through my letter box I will scan it straight away then get it off to Phil in Canada.

The aggrement with Phil was that I would let him have it for my purchase price plus 'costs' which will obviously include the price of TWO trips accross the Atlantic.

I only hope that I can travel as much as this old comic book has when i'm in MY sixties  !

-Nigel

[John C]

The first order of business, though, should be hammering-out a way this should work, limiting the amount of mistakes/bad decisions people could make once it got rolling.

This is going to permanently brand me as naive, I'm sure, but what the hey.

Why don't you just give it a shot on a lower budget?  If you want to throw something together, I'm sure I (and probably others, but it's not like I can speak for anybody else) can kick in a few bucks that won't otherwise affect my life.  Give it a shot with, say, a fifty dollar limit (sort of the low end of "expensive," for most people, it seems, and easily collected as an experiment), and see how it goes.

The worst that could happen in that scenario is that (depending on the breakdown) five people are out the cost of a mediocre lunch.

Another thing that might go into the model is some sort of central clearinghouse.  That is, announcements that "I want the book."  If a community like that could be sustained among collectors, you'd have less bidding competition, and you might get "earmarked" money from collectors who want to reserve the issue for themselves, once it's been scanned.  That extra money could go, for example, into using sniping services.

[darkmark]

Actually, gang, I was able to contrib a few issues to the pile by simply *borrowing* them from folks online who wanted to help the cause.  Why don't we see about going that route?

[OtherEric]

Another thing that might be useful is a consolidated "hey, this is for sale" thread.  Mentions of books being available seem to pop up everywhere on the forums. I already waste enough time looking at eBay for the few projects I'm currently interested in without checking everything I can think of that we might use.  But having one thread- or even one forum- with "hey, are the stars right for somebody here to snag this book we need?" that's easy to find and check would be handy.

That's not _exactly_ the same concept we're discussing here; but I think it's idea that could be very worthwhile.  I've seen posts about books for sale showing up at semi-random; this would allow a) one place to look for what's out there right now, and b) would let us pool information so we're not bidding against ourselves to get a book to scan.

[narfstar]

Good idea Eric.  I am the one who has been posting the ebay heads up.  It would be good to have a single place to look for priority needs to finish a series.  I am most likely to look for the obscure books like Hi-lite but this group has an interest in some of obscure stuff like YellowJacket and Blazing which is great.  I would love to see a Red Band 1 or my centerfold for #3.

[Yoc]

Ok Gang,
I've started up a new eBay thread and added a sticky for it.

-Yoc

[OtherEric]

Thank you, Yoc.  Hopefully we'll catch a few good books in there; and if not it's still an idea worth trying.