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[rez]

[Astaldo711]

The King looks like a character he himself would draw.

[rez]

[darkmark]

I'm seeing this just while I'm loading a bunch of Fantastic Four scans onto a DVD.  I was privelaged enough to get to attend Kirby's birthday party at San Diego and to have talked briefly with him a couple of times.  These pics do affect me.  Thanks.

[Astaldo711]

When I first started collecting I wasn't a big fan of his. I always thought all his characters, even the women, were too "blocky". I started reading my Fantastic Four from issue one and some old Captain America and I find I really like his work now. It's like seeing an old friend.

[narfstar]

 I liked hs work until he went to DC and everything turned big and blocky and cosmc

[rez]

[rez]

[Astaldo711]

rez, are these original pieces of art you have?

[JonTheScanner]

I liked hs work until he went to DC and everything turned big and blocky and cosmc

I'd say his art turned big and blocky a bit before he went to DC, but I agree I can't understand what everyone sees in the Fourth World stuff.  I loved F4 and really was tremendously disappointed with Kirby's DC stories.

[darkmark]

Jack's dialogue was frequently terrible in his post-Fourth World stuff, and some of his ideas just didn't work (uh, the Goozlebobber?).  But he didn't have an editor who could correct him, nor a writer who could supply convincing wordage.  I did like his work for STAR-SPANGLED WAR STORIES, though.

[John C]

The entire Fourth World, to me, seems so formulaic that I'm also astonished that so many people, especially professionals, love it.  I mean, really, it's like every character has a checklist:

- Pun or misspelled word for a name (an idea that only works in print),
- Sometimes an equivalently stupid name or titled position ("Dog of War"),
- Pseudo-Aztec patterns on European clothes,
- Insane headgear, and, of course
- Constipation grimace.

Lather, rinse, repeat for an arbitrarily large number of characters.

...With one exception.  I love Kirby's version of Mister Miracle, for some reason, and hate most of what's been done with the character since (though his Justice League stint was surprisingly close).  For that reason, I cheat and don't count Miracle as part of the Fourth World.

[rez]

Constipation grimace.

dang but that is so funny

[rez]

rez, are these original pieces of art you have?

If only.
They are selections from an oversized 1971 book of a Kirby portfolio titled Kirby Unleashed that I have.
Thought it might be an interesting topic for a thread.

[Astaldo711]

It is! John Byrne is my favorite of the new artists, although the books I read of his were in the 80's. I don't know what he's even doing now. Steve Ditko was another artist that I never warmed up to.
I have the run of Fantastic Four from #1 through whatever number it was in 2004 on DVD from Marvel. One of the early issues, maybe even the first one, is signed by Kirby and Lee. I love to own that original!

[narfstar]

John B is at IDW now does several of the Star Trek spin offs and other stuff

[Palooka slim]

Thats one of the things i like about Kirby you can see subtle changes in his style from decade to decade.Omac and mr miracle made during the "blocky" years are two of my fav kirby books.Someone mentioned not liking kirby when they were younger then realizing his talent later, this is how i was about frank robbins i used to loathe his art now i think its totally inspired.

[OtherEric]

I think the classic story of "I used to hate your art but now I love it" is Mike Sekowsky.  When he was working in animation, he finally went ahead and got a take a number dispenser outside his door that actually read something like "If you want to tell me how you used to hate my art but now you love it please take a number."

[Palooka slim]

Ha ha yeah i read that in alter ego

[rez]

[Palooka slim]

Im an aspiring comic artist myself with three issues of a comic i someday hope to get published under my belt and the more i get involved in the process of sequential story telling the more i appreciate artist i used to consider "lame" .I wonder if i will appreciate rob liefield after ive drawn another dozen issues.?

[JVJ]

Thats one of the things i like about Kirby you can see subtle changes in his style from decade to decade.Omac and mr miracle made during the "blocky" years are two of my fav kirby books.Someone mentioned not liking kirby when they were younger then realizing his talent later, this is how i was about frank robbins i used to loathe his art now i think its totally inspired.

My biggest "flip" was Alex Toth. Back in the late '60s as I completed my Marvel collection, I expanded my collecting horizons. I was immediately enamored with the "romantic" artists like Williamson, Frazetta, Buscema, etc. and the energetic stylists like Colan and Krigstein. I simply didn't "get" Alex Toth. What was the big fuss about? Why did he merit an entire ISSUE of Graphic Story Magazine? Even after reading that issue, I was still puzzled.

Then one day I simply woke up and "got it." In one year I acquired all of the Danger Trails, the Jimmy Wakelys, the Dale Evans, the All-American Westerns, the All-Star Westerns, and most of the Standard and Heroic stories. One year! I was on a quest, a crusade. This was 1969 or 1970 - pre-Overstreet and still feasible to get such things. Then I began to compile what was to become the Alex Toth Index. I went from a disbeliever to a fervent advocate - almost overnight.

Everybody else that I collect or have collected - I understood and appreciated immediately. Toth I had to grow up a bit before he got through to me.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[narfstar]

I still do not get Toth. I know his minimalism is considered by most knowledgable art critics as genieous. Williamson and Frazetta and Krigstein and Kinstler and Fujitani and Raymond and Fine,etc I get. Buscema never seemed special to me but I have never taken the time to really look. Colon just does not appeal to me. Not that it is not good just does not appeal, personal preferences. Since I am a fan of the oddball stuff, I can appreciate different styles. I like Eugene Hughes on war stories. They have a sad look that goes with war like Glanzman. Glanzman is my flip. I did not like him as a teen but do now especially his war and Hercules. When it comes to minimalism I prefer Jesse Marsh to Toth. I grew to appreciate Marsh when he had Tarzan sneaking among some rocks and it was just a wow moment for me concerning his talent. For sheer eye candy I still prefer Manning's but I can appreciate Marsh.

[JonTheScanner]

I also still don't get Toth.  I know many think he's great -- I don't see it though I'll admit I don't study it but just go with what I like.  My favorite Tarzans are Manning and Kubert.  Of course Manning's Tarzan always looks like he's Lord Greystoke even when he's swinging through the jungle.  Hogarth I like, but in small doses.  Foster's Tarzan i don't like too much, but I love his Valiant.

[rez]

There use to be one particular Charleton or ACG silverage artist that somehow grabbed my attention back then with his sharply defined lines that reminded me more of mechanical drawing than freeform artistry.

Wish I could describe it better. Backgrounds full of sharp angles and straight lines or circular items that appeared as if from a templet. Reminded me of that 50s-60s art style often found on plates and such.

Kind of like the cut-out designs on those old metal shades that use to be seen on light fixtures hanging  out from the house wall which had their own little switch on the lamp as opposed to a wall switch.

Anyone know what I'm talking about or who that particular artist might have been?