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[DennyWilson]

Expanding my thought a little further beyond just a title, but who was the worst publisher of the Golden Age?

[Poztron]

I don't know that I could choose a single worst GA Publisher... Ethics-wise, I think that most every publisher's hands were hardly clean. But judged in terms of originality or quality, I'd tend to say the worst were:

Croydon
Holyoke
I.W.
Novelty Press
Story

I do have a rather perverse fondness for the Iger shop material that ran in Fiction House, Fox, and some other publisher's books, like Superior. It was so often mediocre art, but there was a boldness of brushwork and spotting of blacks which really gave the Iger art punch. To me the worst Golden Age publishers were those who either just reprinted newspaper strips or those who published really timid and pallid comics.

[Ed Love]

I find the Ace comics generally the biggest chore to get through, partly through the fact that the majority of the characters don't keep a secret identity and there's little connection to them outside of the costume. All the companies had characters that seemed to be the hero 24-7, but Ace is the only one that does it for the majority of their characters.

[phabox]

Speaking of Ace just HOW many times did Magno and the Clown face off ? it seemed to be such a regular event its a wonder the writers never run out of plots, or maybe the did 

-Nigel

[narfstar]

I thought they only used one plot over and over anyway

[Astaldo711]

Never really go into the Ace stuff. The Clown was evil! I hates clowns but he's the worst!

[Poztron]

The biggest virtue of Ace comics is that early Kurtzman and Palais appeared in Ace's Four Favorites and Super-Mystery. But you guys are right that Ace was, on the whole, lackluster.

[JVJ]

I strongly disagree, guys.
During the mid-1940s you can find some fantastic Warren Kremer and mind-boggling Rudy Palais and in the 1950s you've got Lou Cameron, Ken Rice, Jim McLaughlin, Alice Kirkpatrick, Louis Zansky, AND there's even some Frank Frazetta in some of their obscure funny animal titles and Max Elkan in the westerns. Don't knock it just because you're not familiar with it or because they didn't do that many superheroes.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[Astaldo711]

I'll give some of their other titles a gander. I didn't care much for Lightning Comics or Super-Mystery. I have Space Action mainly because the covers look interesting. Crime Must Pay The Penalty was pretty good.

[narfstar]

I am not the only one that found Ace superheroes lackluster. But as JVJ said they had some other stuff that was pretty good. While I like Black Terror's costume I am not enthusiastic about the Standard Heroes either.

[Astaldo711]

Yeah, but I really like Better. Nedor is not good. 

[DennyWilson]

Talking about worst publishers - is it true that the press CHARLTON used was the worse in the industry and wasn't designed to print on newsprint?

[boox909]

Talking about worst publishers - is it true that the press CHARLTON used was the worse in the industry and wasn't designed to print on newsprint?

I consider that part of the 'Charlton Charm'! ::lol:: 

[DennyWilson]

Is that the one originally used to print cereal boxes?

That's one of the stories I heard!

[Aqualad1]

Quote from: DennyWilson on March 12, 2010, 10:25:45 PM
Talking about worst publishers - is it true that the press CHARLTON used was the worse in the industry and wasn't designed to print on newsprint?

That explains the weird oder I remember when I bought bunch of them new! Still have them all bagged up and last I remember the oder was still unique to Carlton Comics.     

[Ed Love]

I strongly disagree, guys.
During the mid-1940s you can find some fantastic Warren Kremer and mind-boggling Rudy Palais and in the 1950s you've got Lou Cameron, Ken Rice, Jim McLaughlin, Alice Kirkpatrick, Louis Zansky, AND there's even some Frank Frazetta in some of their obscure funny animal titles and Max Elkan in the westerns. Don't knock it just because you're not familiar with it or because they didn't do that many superheroes.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

Well, I'm a superhero guy so that's pretty much what "I" am going to judge by. Others can feel differently of course. They did more superheroes than say Novelty, but for the most part their superheroes just were there. I liked the basic design of the look of their heroes and the names but for the most part there seemed to be little thought to them. I still like them in small doses and find some worth and little gems in them, but they are my least favorite of the GA companies to read when I'm trying to read whole books for information for my sites and fan-fic.

On the other hand, I enjoy their pulp characters Moon Man and Secret Agent "X" (both of whom got adapted to the comics as the Raven and Phantom Fed X). Though, as a character "X" is fairly indicative of their comic heroes, his backstory and real name and personal life are non-existent. It works for the Shadow because of the nature of the character and Gibson's writing style. For "X" it makes the character a cypher and bland though the stories' plotting and storytelling style are fun to read.

[Ed Love]

I am not the only one that found Ace superheroes lackluster. But as JVJ said they had some other stuff that was pretty good. While I like Black Terror's costume I am not enthusiastic about the Standard Heroes either.

Standard is close. For the most part their stories are sub-par compared to the vast output of other companies. For me though they had decades of advertising through pictures of Schomburg's covers for the Overstreet books to have me panting for their stories and characters before I ever read the inside of one of the comics. And, then the first one I did get to read had a Schomburg cover of the Fighting Yank and Robinson/Meskin art on the inside. Which did mean a Fighting Yank very different from the cover.

Like Ace, several of their heroes seemed to come from the same template. For the most part stories starring the Fighting Yank, Black Terror, the Scarab, the Liberator, American Eagle, Captain Future, American Crusader, Doc Strange, etc could be interchangeable.

But, the tweakings in the characters fleshed them out more. For all their sameness in powers, they were given individual origins, supporting casts and unique twists such as the Scarab having a talking cat. That and the fondness and excitement for the characters indoctrinated in me over decades of looking at the Schomburg covers is enough to make me forgive the stories for their flaws. The difference is that with Better/Nedor/Standard is that I love the characters, while underawed by majority of the actual stories.

[JVJ]

Well, I'm a superhero guy so that's pretty much what "I" am going to judge by. Others can feel differently of course. They did more superheroes than say Novelty, but for the most part their superheroes just were there. I liked the basic design of the look of their heroes and the names but for the most part there seemed to be little thought to them. I still like them in small doses and find some worth and little gems in them, but they are my least favorite of the GA companies to read when I'm trying to read whole books for information for my sites and fan-fic.

I guess that's my problem, Ed, I don't READ GA comics. Most of the stories in the '40s are trite and inane - in MOST of the companies. I love comic art and the art of comics, but the true gems are few and far between. I gave up reading modern comics, too, after nearly 40 years of weekly trips to, first, the drugstore/newsstand, and then to the comic shop. It's much more fun for me to "just look at the pictures" and track the careers of the real people who were part of a fascinating industry. But READ comic books. I honestly have better things to do with my life.

Sorry to offend the true believer (but I STILL have my four "no prizes!", so I know how you feel).

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[Astaldo711]

I think sometimes I enjoy he inaneness of the stories. It give me a bit of escapism from work and trying to pay the bills. There are stories that I can't get into and those books I'll just study the drawings.

[Ed Love]

I get what you're saying. As I have to "read" them for my site and it usually means reading a whole lot of them in one sitting, my "reading" is usually first skimming, looking for something of interest worth reporting and then going back and reading the story for information. After awhile, I just gloss over many features. Some of that is also from reading on the computer, an activity that's just not as fun or engrossing as reading a book in a comfortable chair, the physical act of turning the pages. Yet, I still have a fondness for the characters, the creativity and purity of them. I look at them and see a "what could be" with them, with creators that actually honor the past and endeavor to keep as much as they can as opposed as to how much they can change and have the character still be recognizable. Books like Thomas' Invaders and All-Star Squadron, Stern's Captain America, Marvel Universe and The Avengers, Byrne's FF, and Namor and get irate at the liberties writers like JMS, James Robinson and Jeff Parker take when handling the characters, tackling characters' basic integrities, turning heroes into villains and watering them down into dull lifeless mundanity.

[DennyWilson]

Quote from: DennyWilson on March 12, 2010, 10:25:45 PM
Talking about worst publishers - is it true that the press CHARLTON used was the worse in the industry and wasn't designed to print on newsprint?

That explains the weird oder I remember when I bought bunch of them new! Still have them all bagged up and last I remember the oder was still unique to Carlton Comics. 

 
CHARLTON was one of, if not the, most interesting and colorful companies in the history of comics (and publishing in general.) They managed to put out fun books,get some good licenced properties, be the entry point for for some great aritists and writers and just have a unique feel about them

[narfstar]

I read very few new comics and prefer story arcs in tradepb. I have enjoyed the Phantom Generation single issue stories concerning a past phantom. I have been on a western kick lately. Seems to come with age is a love of westerns. Watching more on tv and appreciating the comics more.

[Astaldo711]

There's too many crossovers and subtitles now for me to try and follow. How many X-Men titles are there now? I have entire runs of some Marvel books from #1 through sometime in '04 or '05 and I'm going to miss things because of crossovers.

[narfstar]

It is no wonder their is a magazine CHARLTON SPOTLIGHT dedicated to the company and a following for the little Derby ditty.

I have some loyalty to JLA/JSA that keeps me getting the trades. I get nothing else from the crossover crazy companies known as the big 2.

[Astaldo711]

Getting the trade paperback is probably the easiest way to go. Even story arcs in the same title are good to put together and release in that way. It can introduce people to a title they might not read. The story where Tony Stark battles alcoholism was a good story and probably my favorite was when Kingpin found our Daredevil's secret ID and ruined his life. I read it in the original comics and I don't know if it was ever released in paperback or not.