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Worst Superhero Movie

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topic icon Author Topic: Worst Superhero Movie  (Read 577 times)

Andrew999

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Worst Superhero Movie
« on: September 26, 2020, 04:59:09 PM »

Having just suffered Birds of Prey, I began to wonder what was the worst superhero movie of all time?

There are plenty to choose from - I seem to remember Daredevil made me snore and the last of the original Superman movies was a joke. Then there was the mish-mash that was The Spirit (probably killed the Spirit's movie career for the next half century).

There are of course a number of Indian-made 'superhero' films that it's best if we don't dwell on - and then there's Japan, Italy, the Philippines and Mexico (although Mexican and Pinoy movies gain brownie points for being so over the top, they become good - I won't have a word said against Zsazsa Zaturnnah Ze Moveeh - possibly the world's only musical comedy superhero batrachophile movie) - but what would be your choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsazsa_Zaturnnah_Ze_Moveeh

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gregjh

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2020, 02:06:37 AM »

I fell asleep during The Watchmen but I think it may need a second view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyocCkQ_99A
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2020, 07:24:53 AM »

Well, if we are limiting ourselves to English Language Big Budget movies, that's one thing.
The very early attempts at Capstan America and Fantastic Four are up there.
Here is Roger Corman's Fantastic Four.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lPqYqExC0Y
Some people give halle Berry's Catwoman the Cigar.
Catwoman | Halle Berry Club Fight Scene
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh6satPUU_0
I didn't actually mind it as a movie. But it wasn't the movie the fans wanted to see.
Lesson number one don't lose the fans.
Actually, looking at this clip, maybe it was just ahead of its time?
If, tho, you include non-English movies like Turkish and Mexican (for two) then its a whole new ballgame.

   
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2020, 08:50:03 PM »


Having just suffered Birds of Prey, I began to wonder what was the worst superhero movie of all time?

There are plenty to choose from - I seem to remember Daredevil made me snore and the last of the original Superman movies was a joke. Then there was the mish-mash that was The Spirit (probably killed the Spirit's movie career for the next half century).

There are of course a number of Indian-made 'superhero' films that it's best if we don't dwell on - and then there's Japan, Italy, the Philippines and Mexico (although Mexican and Pinoy movies gain brownie points for being so over the top, they become good - I won't have a word said against Zsazsa Zaturnnah Ze Moveeh - possibly the world's only musical comedy superhero batrachophile movie) - but what would be your choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsazsa_Zaturnnah_Ze_Moveeh


Exactly what superpowers did The Spirit have?  I've read many of his newspaper strip and comic book stories, and never seen nor heard of any super powers he had.  In my book, he wasn't a super hero (which is why I like his stories, when I don't like Superman, and the others).  For that matter, please tell me what superpowers Batman had.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2020, 01:09:58 AM by Robb_K »
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Captain Audio

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2020, 09:24:24 PM »



Having just suffered Birds of Prey, I began to wonder what was the worst superhero movie of all time?

There are plenty to choose from - I seem to remember Daredevil made me snore and the last of the original Superman movies was a joke. Then there was the mish-mash that was The Spirit (probably killed the Spirit's movie career for the next half century).

There are of course a number of Indian-made 'superhero' films that it's best if we don't dwell on - and then there's Japan, Italy, the Philippines and Mexico (although Mexican and Pinoy movies gain brownie points for being so over the top, they become good - I won't have a word said against Zsazsa Zaturnnah Ze Moveeh - possibly the world's only musical comedy superhero batrachophile movie) - but what would be your choice?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zsazsa_Zaturnnah_Ze_Moveeh


Exactly what superpowers did The Spirit have.  I've read many of his newspaper strip and comic book stories, and never seen nor heard of any super powers he had.  In my book, he wasn't a super hero (which is why I like his stories, when I don't like Superman, and the others.  For that matter, please tell me what superpowers Batman had.

Spirit is the reanimated Detective Denny Colt, a murdered policeman. The Spirit is not so much invulnerable as extremely hard to kill.
His enemies often believe they have killed him, but he just won't stay dead. He suffers injuries but those heal quickly.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2020, 11:48:31 PM »

IIRC Denny Colt was exposed to an immortality serum in his first story which is how he came back from the dead and took on the name The Spirit, but I don't think it played much into later stories. Although when Eisner agreed to let other people do Spirit stories in the 80s or 90s one author had a story set in the future with the Spirit thinking of all the people he had known.

I find it better to think of Superhero as the name of the genre rather than nitpick whether this character or that character has powers, or is even a hero. Basically it's stories set in a universe where people with unusual powers exist and usually has vigilantes with wild costumes and goofy names fighting crime.
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2020, 01:14:38 AM »


IIRC Denny Colt was exposed to an immortality serum in his first story which is how he came back from the dead and took on the name The Spirit, but I don't think it played much into later stories. Although when Eisner agreed to let other people do Spirit stories in the 80s or 90s one author had a story set in the future with the Spirit thinking of all the people he had known.

I find it better to think of Superhero as the name of the genre rather than nitpick whether this character or that character has powers, or is even a hero. Basically it's stories set in a universe where people with unusual powers exist and usually has vigilantes with wild costumes and goofy names fighting crime.


I guess I've read way too few "Spirit" stories.  I don't remember him fighting any villains with superhuman powers.  If I had heard that he was invulnerable, and was fighting villains with superhuman powers, I probably wouldn't have even looked at any of his stories.
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crashryan

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2020, 01:15:52 AM »

I wish I still had my early Spirit collection. I remember the Spirit's origin the way Wikipedia describes it:

"Presumed killed in the first three pages of the premiere story, Colt later revealed to his friend, Central City Police Commissioner Dolan, that he had in fact gone into suspended animation caused by one of archvillain Dr. Cobra's experiments. When Colt awakened in Wildwood Cemetery, he established a base there (underneath his own tombstone) and, using his new-found anonymity, began a life of fighting crime..."

He was never really dead. Of all the masked hero origin stories, the Spirit's was one of the least important and most quickly forgotten. Eisner really wanted a regular guy in a mask. It wasn't till after he dumped the superhero trimmings like the flying car that the Spirit really hit his stride. Some of the best-remembered stories like "The Barber Shop" and "Ten Minutes" hardly involved the Spirit at all.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2020, 02:29:44 AM »

Quote
Exactly what superpowers did The Spirit have?  I've read many of his newspaper strip and comic book stories, and never seen nor heard of any super powers he had.  In my book, he wasn't a super hero (which is why I like his stories, when I don't like Superman, and the others).  For that matter, please tell me what superpowers Batman had.

There are a number of characters who come under the banner, 'Superheroes' who have no discernible 'Super' power.
There are six attributes some of these characters have that supposedly make them exemplary.
First Skill, Aptitude and training for one.So, Hawkeye,Green Arrow, The Phantom, Mandrake, Black Widow, Catwoman.
Second, heightened sensibility and self-belief. Most Kung Fu Characters don't have 'Super' powers, just heightened sensibility and self-belief.
Third, Genius level intelligence/Scientist.[The Sherlock Holmes factor]  So Batman, Doc Savage, Iron Man - who originally was a man with a weak heart who needed a suit of armour to stay alive. And he is still just a man.
Hawkman was originally a guy with artificial wings [still is] who was a museum curator and borrowed medieval weapons like maces to fight his battles. And yes, that's ridiculous if you care to think about it.
Forth, Motivation. Hence the Punisher, who is an ordinary man, albeit with Military training. Also Daredevil and the Phantom.
Fifth, Military, Police or Detective Training.[Original Blue Beetle,the Black Hood,Captain America] 
Sixth, the ability to make 'fear' an element that works to increase the perception of them as unbeatable.
So, the Phantom, Batman,The Spirit, The Shadow.
[And Yes, I know, some  of these characters have been given 'powers' in subsequent narratives since their origin. Unfortunately]     
One or two of them have all these attributes. Doc Savage, I think its fair to say.
And Batman. Superman is actually a 'Super Alien', but Batman, as the DC writers continually write him, is actually the real 'Super' man. So he has taken down the entire Justice League, Superman and even Darkseid on his own. With all of the above attributes but no actual superpowers.   
Quote
I guess I've read way too few "Spirit" stories.  I don't remember him fighting any villains with superhuman powers.

Neither do I - Eisner's work was always about people and their foibles and strengths.
Often the Spirit was barely present in the story at all. 
When all is said and done, all cultures and all eras need Myths and 'Super' Heroes, are the mythological culture of the day.

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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2020, 04:26:59 AM »


Quote
Exactly what superpowers did The Spirit have?  I've read many of his newspaper strip and comic book stories, and never seen nor heard of any super powers he had.  In my book, he wasn't a super hero (which is why I like his stories, when I don't like Superman, and the others).  For that matter, please tell me what superpowers Batman had.

There are a number of characters who come under the banner, 'Superheroes' who have no discernible 'Super' power.
There are six attributes some of these characters have that supposedly make them exemplary.
First Skill, Aptitude and training for one. So, Hawkeye,Green Arrow, The Phantom, Mandrake, Black Widow, Catwoman.
Second, heightened sensibility and self-belief. Most Kung Fu Characters don't have 'Super' powers, just heightened sensibility and self-belief.
Third, Genius level intelligence/Scientist.[The Sherlock Holmes factor]  So Batman, Doc Savage, Iron Man - who originally was a man with a weak heart who needed a suit of armour to stay alive. And he is still just a man.
Hawkman was originally a guy with artificial wings [still is] who was a museum curator and borrowed medieval weapons like maces to fight his battles. And yes, that's ridiculous if you care to think about it.
Forth, Motivation. Hence the Punisher, who is an ordinary man, albeit with Military training. Also Daredevil and the Phantom.
Fifth, Military, Police or Detective Training.[Original Blue Beetle,the Black Hood,Captain America] 
Sixth, the ability to make 'fear' an element that works to increase the perception of them as unbeatable.
So, the Phantom, Batman,The Spirit, The Shadow.
[And Yes, I know, some  of these characters have been given 'powers' in subsequent narratives since their origin. Unfortunately]     
One or two of them have all these attributes. Doc Savage, I think its fair to say.
And Batman. Superman is actually a 'Super Alien', but Batman, as the DC writers continually write him, is actually the real 'Super' man. So he has taken down the entire Justice League, Superman and even Darkseid on his own. With all of the above attributes but no actual superpowers.   
Quote
I guess I've read way too few "Spirit" stories.  I don't remember him fighting any villains with superhuman powers.

Neither do I - Eisner's work was always about people and their foibles and strengths.
Often the Spirit was barely present in the story at all. 
When all is said and done, all cultures and all eras need Myths and 'Super' Heroes, are the mythological culture of the day.

I don't think that heroes that don't have impossible "powers" should be called "superheroes".  I don't mind great heroes with the laudable trait of wanting to help their community and Mankind.  In real life there have been LOTS of military, martial arts, and self-discipline-trained people who  have been very heroic for good causes.  They came about their great abilities through hard work and study.  There are also mental giants, highly perceptive people, and people born with Aspergers' Syndrome and other "diseases", which have negative aspects, but also provide rare ability to concentrate on one thing to an extreme degree (Rain Man Syndrome) - a talent many comic book collectors have (having a photographic memory, which allows them to store thousands upon thousands of data points, such as everything in all the stories on all pages in all books in all the book series in their collections, and having all the catalogue numbers, titles of stories, names of authors and all artists, etc.  I have no problems with that, as it exists in life, and I know hundreds of people with it, including myself, from being a record collector, comic book collector, and a sports card collector.  And, as is well known, University of Edinburgh forensic physician, Dr. Joseph Bell, who inspired creation of the fictional character, Sherlock Holmes, had a memory and storage of facts, and overall knowledge of forensics that was not all that much less amazing than Holmes.  I enjoy reading about real people's exploits, even fictional, but possible people.  What I never liked was ridiculously predictable story endings.  We know that Superman WILL win every time, - which is bad enough, but we also know that he did it with an unfair, unnatural advantage.  I don't mind science fiction, when beings from one planet have a technological advantage over another.  But, there should ALWAYS be at least, a POSSIBLE downside, even to the heavily-favoured side.

From the little of what I've read from that so-called "genre", I can enjoy The Spirit, I can tolerate Batman (but many of the villains are too "silly" for my taste).  But, I can't bother with "Superman" or his ilk.  I think that any wider group of fighters for their community, "the right way", and/or Humanity in general, should NOT be called "Superheroes".  Only those with superhuman powers should be called that.  Heroes like Batman, The Phantom, Mandrake The Magician, The Spirit, etc. should be considered "fictional non-super heroes".  The group that includes both, would be called "fictional heroes", and that group would also include alien (non-human or non-earthly, sentient beings, who are also heroes.

Incidentally, I don't believe that Hercules, Krishna, Achilles, and Goliath were fictional.  I believe their legends  were based on handed down, word-of-mouth accounts of real events, that were exaggerated over the centuries.  Except that Goliath probably WAS really 9 feet tall (as described in The Bible), and was a REAL giant (as exists among Humanity today), caused by a malfunction in the Human growth hormone, a disease which kills its victims early in life, and makes them a lot less mobile than a normal, athletic soldier, and who could be more likely to die instantly from a 60 or 75 MPH sling-hurled stone hitting his forehead than would a normal soldier.  I can easily believe that The Philistine army would use such rare people to scare enemies, especially as battles during the early Iron Age in the Middle East were often decided by having each army's "champion" one-on-one combatant fight the opposing army's champion, to decide which army would occupy the contested area.  When the normal champion saw a growth hormone giant he would usually run, rather than surely be killed.  So, having a giant in one's army was an advantage.  The reason the David and Goliath story resonated so well with young boys was that it was a reasonably realistic situation in which being brave, and standing up to one's fears is an admirable thing to do, and can sometimes even work.  And one can look at himself in the mirror and feel proud that he overcame his fear for his own good, and/or to help others, and that he is not a coward, and did not let anyone down.

Superman got his powers handed to him without his working hard many years to acquire them.  Most of his adventures didn't involve deadly risk to him.  There WERE a few individual stories that did (I'm guessing that many of those involved the villains' use of Kryptonite".  My guess is that I would at least tolerate those stories, and might be willing to read at least one. 

My favourite comic book story author and artist is Carl Barks, because his main characters, Donald Duck, his uncle, Scrooge McDuck, and his nephews, Huey, Dewey, and Louie. were well-rounded characters, who had both good and bad traits, and stories were shown involving all the different emotions and behaviours that humans experience (love, hate, anger, joy, greed, friendliness, aloofness, sadness, stubbornness, openness, wonder, loneliness,...etc.) The great thing about Barks' stories is that the reader never knows until the end of a story whether or not the protagonist will be the hero or goat, will win, lose, or end the same, having learned his lesson, or not.  Not all the endings are happy.  It is more like real life, where ANYTHING  can happen.  Like the stories of Wil Eisner (one of my favourite Human character comic author/artists), they are about real people (despite looking like Human/animal hybrids).
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2020, 11:15:13 AM »

The point most miss about Superman is that his real superpower is his human sense of morality and ethics which he got by being raised by two mid-western salt-of-the earth farmers. He wasn't born with that sense of morality but it is what makes him the character he is. In his original powers he had super-strength and could fly and not much more, if I recall correctly. In the 50's he became so powerful that he was absurd, and the stories had to avoid the implications of that. So they were all about hiding his identify from Lois, Kryptonite, Mr Myzlplyx, Bizarro, going to the future and imaginary stories.
Robb, you know that I revere Carl Barks, I have said so in these forums more than once, but really, is a Duck who is the Richest being on earth and has all his money in coins and notes in a giant bin, any more or less believable than a Superhero? 
The story that a creator uses his characters [and their universe] to tell is what its really about.
Myself, I largely tune out most horror, comics and film. Vampire characters and stories in particular I mostly avoid. Ditto for Zombies.
If a story gains an audience, that's the basic objective, if a story is able  to make a point or teach something, that's even better.
Cheers! Comics forever!               
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paw broon

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Re: Worst Superhero Movie
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2020, 01:12:40 PM »

Most of The Spirit stories are quite superb, not only imo. And Crash is right, Denny colt was never actually dead - a bit like Adam Adamant, who is not a superhero or MMM, more a costumed adventurer.
As for super heroes, I also use the term "Masked Mystery Men", but "superhero" is a sort of common, catch-all title for all those costumed, secret i/d characters.  It might be lazy and not fit quite a few of them but I think we all know what is meant.
There are many MMM/superheroes in the comics of other countries, many predating American heroes, and many more imitating American characters. 
I also think that a MMM or superhero has to have a secret i/d; costume of some sort, even if it's just a domino mask and those neat gloves The Spirit wears; a power, or gadget/tool/weapon or apparently enhanced skill, however slight. The fear that some MMM seem to instill in criminals is a great idea.  We see it with The Phantom; Batman; The Spirit; The Shadow.  And the legend that grows that a hero cannot die which is regularly reinforced by the hero or the circumstances.  Of course it helps, as in the Phantom's case, that he has had centuries to make it "real".  The Hangman is another "superhero" with that trait and no powers.
I just love all those exotically garbed characters with their dodgy origins, weird powers, daft gadgets and impossible means of flying or disappearing or eating through metal to get out of jail.  Some of them, however, sometimes have stories which reach great heights of excitement or sadness  or generate great pleasure in the reader.  The Spirit does that often.
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