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[Robb_K]

I was a fan of the 1940s detective mystery films and detective mystery comics when growing up in the late 1940s and 1950s. I enjoyed The Charlie Chan and Mr. Wong film series. Unfortunately, in Winnipeg, Canada, our family didn't get either of those 2 newspaper comic strip series in our newspaper. Why I bring this up is because of the inherent racism in The United States of America, that made the producers of these films to NOT use actors of Chinese descent, to play the parts of Chinese-American series lead character, because, at that time, a significant portion of The US population did not want to see non-Caucasian in the lead (protagonist) role in a film OR comic strip, especially if he would be shown to be more successful than the Caucasian American characters (some of whom-often police chiefs were depicted as bumbling and incompetent.

As a Jewish family, who suffered ill treatment in various countries, and had to run away from them in various diasporas (Roman Palestine, Spanish Inquisition, Russian Czars' Pogrum campaigns, Hitler's Europe), we had family all over The World, with very mixed blood of almost all of the so-called races. So, I was always cognisant of the importance of being realistic, thus being historically accurate, and using the most realistic-acting, speaking, and looking person for the part. Even as a youngster of 5 and 6, I thought it silly that for The Charlie Chan films, Swedish actor, Warner Oland (an obvious Caucasian), and Hungarian, Sidney Toler (and not a particular "oriental-looking" Hungarian) were used as lead men. The producers had no problems allowing the unwise, semi-bumbling, "Number One Son" be played by someone of Chinese origin, because such an character wouldn't be making Nordic, Caucasian-Americans look bad.  On the contrary, just like they enjoyed making fun of silly, incompetent African-American characters, they loved the same with undesirable foreigners, with any shade of darker skin, and ways different from their own.  And, of course, The "Mr. Wong" series lead was played by famous British actor, William Pratt (AKA Boris Karloff), who looked a lot less Chinese than I do (and I'm a redhead with sappy white skin, freckles, and light blue eyes). 

I understand why the films would try to feed the racist desires of a sizable portion of their expected market. But, I wouldn't have guessed that the newspaper comics editors would expect to get more regular readership having their Chinese detectives look like Caucasians! I was shocked to find out, after moving to USA, and becoming an adult, that the Mr. Wong newspaper strip had their artist draw Mr. Wong exactly as Boris Karloff looks, and even advertise "as played by....Boris Karloff", and that Charlie Chan in his newspaper strip, was drawn as Sidney Toler.

"Popular Comics" contained the "Mr. Wong" strip for several years. Issue No. 40 is a good example. The artwork (penciling and inking) by Jim Gary is quite good. The stories, originally written by Hugh Wiley, were good, too. I'm not sure if they ALL came from the film series, but I would guess they did, as they only list Stephen Slesinger, Inc., who, I assume, wrote the original stories for the films. The stories were good enough to be average, to a little above average for that genre. 

Here is a link to the book: Popular Comics 040

[Electricmastro]

Of course I dont speak for all media of the time, but the way you write about the times makes it sound as if the majority of artists and producers of the time had a specific agenda to make non-white/non-American people look bad, if not, attack them out of some personal racist-fueled grudge.

Instead of automatically looking at it as if the producers have a grudge, I instead think about the bigger picture of the forms of exaggeration of the time, like Charlie Chaplin, and Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello, and the Three Stooges, and the Little Rascals, and even the Marx Brothers, who happened to be Jewish themselves. As well as the forms of exaggeration in drawn media like the white hillbilly stereotypes in Lil Abner, Green Lanterns sidekick Dolby Dickles, Plastic Mans sidekick Woozy Winks, and Elmer Fudd being the incompetent funny and dumb hunter whos constantly outwitted by Bugs Bunny.

I dont deny the possibility of at least a few producers depicting non-whites as non-human out of a grudge, and Im sure more certain producers possibly should have needed to face jail time for the bad people that they were, but that said, with all that Ive seen based on interviews and my human wisdom I can muster up, if we have to go on and on accusing, condemning, and attacking producers of the past, then it seems for the most part they should be accused of simply not understanding when it is and isnt ok to exaggerate someone, as the most full-fledged fiction tends to exaggerate in the first place, rather than primarily being accused of having prejudice-based grudges, as one certainly shouldnt just simply say This is ok because the white characters look funny and dumb, which seems to have been the prevailing approach the media regardless.

In any case, Im sure that there are several examples of media from modern times that even many black people would point to as being appropriate in how said media exaggerates whites and non-whites in their fictional settings. Because comedy, fiction, and general forms of exaggeration themselves certainly havent disappeared in modern times, and so shouldnt the discussions of when the producers are being right and when the producers are being wrong.

[Robb_K]

Of course I dont speak for all media of the time, but the way you write about the times makes it sound as if the majority of artists and producers of the time had a specific agenda to make non-white/non-American people look bad, if not, attack them out of some personal racist-fueled grudge.

Instead of automatically looking at it as if the producers have a grudge, I instead think about the bigger picture of the forms of exaggeration of the time, like Charlie Chaplin, and Laurel and Hardy, and Abbot and Costello, and the Three Stooges, and the Little Rascals, and even the Marx Brothers, who happened to be Jewish themselves. As well as the forms of exaggeration in drawn media like the white hillbilly stereotypes in Lil Abner, Green Lanterns sidekick Dolby Dickles, Plastic Mans sidekick Woozy Winks, and Elmer Fudd being the incompetent funny and dumb hunter whos constantly outwitted by Bugs Bunny.

I dont deny the possibility of at least a few producers depicting non-whites as non-human out of a grudge, and Im sure more certain producers possibly should have needed to face jail time for the bad people that they were, but that said, with all that Ive seen based on interviews and my human wisdom I can muster up, if we have to go on and on accusing, condemning, and attacking producers of the past, then it seems for the most part they should be accused of simply not understanding when it is and isnt ok to exaggerate someone, as the most full-fledged fiction tends to exaggerate in the first place, rather than primarily being accused of having prejudice-based grudges, as one certainly shouldn't just simply say This is ok because the white characters look funny and dumb, which seems to have been the prevailing approach the media regardless.

In any case, Im sure that there are several examples of media from modern times that even many black people would point to as being appropriate in how said media exaggerates whites and non-whites in their fictional settings. Because comedy, fiction, and general forms of exaggeration themselves certainly havent disappeared in modern times, and so shouldn't the discussions of when the producers are being right and when the producers are being wrong.

None of this is REMOTELY what I meant.  Producers want to be hired again.  So they want as many of the public to pay money to see their films, so they can please their studio owners.  They want to give the masses what they want in the form of entertainment.  My point was that because a majority of The US population who had enough money to visit the cinema with regularity, was racist and xenophobic enough to enjoy making fun of African Americans, Latinos, Native Americans, Chinese, and also loathed to see them represented as excelling and succeeding, especially in the featured role, and especially when that happens at the expense of Caucasian-Americans.

How else can you explain studios during The 1910s-1950s NEVER casting Chinese or Native Americans in the leading roles when those roles depicted glorified heroes and people that should be respected, yet there were plenty of actors from those ethnic groups, used as villains, or in lesser parts, in many(or most) of those films?

As recently as The 1950s, heroic and respected Native American leading roles were played by non- Native Americans, such as Michael Ansara (Armenian/Syrian), or Yul Brynner (Russian). The few African-American heroic or well-respected leads were mainly produced for all-Black audiences. It's not surprising that in The US Southwest from The 1850s through the early 1900s, there were laws restricting the rights of Mexican-Americans, and during that same period in The Far West, there were even more restrictive and punitive laws against The Chinese, who weren't allowed to become US citizens no matter how long they resided there.  And, of course, the "Jim Crow Laws" against African-Americans in the South are well known.  All during those periods, significant portions of The US population had racist hatred for those groups, and lynchings of those people were regular in The West, Southwest, and The South, mainly when the racists saw those members of minorities succeeding in business in competition with "White" US citizens, who they considered "the only "real" Americans. 

It's no surprise given that a very significant percentage of The US population held those views to varying degrees, studio owners, wanting to pull in the most customers possible, didn't want to depict the objects of derision of a significant portion of their potential market in heroic or highly respected roles.

[Electricmastro]

How else can you explain studios during The 1910s-1950s NEVER casting Chinese or Native Americans in the leading roles when those roles depicted glorified heroes and people that should be respected, yet there were plenty of actors from those ethnic groups, used as villains, or in lesser parts, in many(or most) of those films?

Well it?s just as you say in regards to heroes and villains, with part of the problem, from what I?ve observed, stemming from assuming, even without regard to evidence at all, that people from certain racial or other related backgrounds tend to be villainous/not worth trusting in the first place, and widespread excuses being used such as ?we must defeat the Indians before they kidnap our women,? the Haitian Revolution being used against black people, Pearl Harbor being used against Asian people, and 9/11 being used against Muslim people, with less willingness to understand and more willingness to quickly condemn first and ask questions later, if at all, and grow ?comfort? in making fun of and laughing at them when depicted at all.

It can be easy to preach how people should be heroic and help those in need, but when much of society grows to presume people of certain backgrounds tend to be less than heroic in the first place, to an extent, it can be more complicated to overcome presumptions, at least from the viewpoints of many studios not willing to lose money over what they surely would have perceived as damagingly controversial, which definitely shows quite a bit of cowardice on their part if nothing else, and how effective events like Civil Rights movements in the 1960s were over clarification, understanding, and building more bridges between people who by all means shouldn?t let surface-level differences and false presumptions prevent them from growing together as a society of respected human beings, not to say there aren?t problems today of course, but still reinforces the ongoing potential for society to indeed get better as a whole.

[Electricmastro]

How else can you explain studios during The 1910s-1950s NEVER casting Chinese or Native Americans in the leading roles when those roles depicted glorified heroes and people that should be respected

At any rate, this sentence you typed stood out to me in particular, making me curious enough to research leading film actors from the time that had a Native American background, and it seems there were at least a few:

Jesse Cornplanter - Hiawatha (1913)

Will Rogers - A Connecticut Yankee (1931)

Ray Mala - Robinson Crusoe of Clipper Island (1936)

Ben Johnson - Wagon Master (1950)

Also worth noting are prominent director-actors Edwin Carewe and James Deer, though it seems Deer?s background has been put into question somewhat.

[The Australian Panther]

This is an interesting topic, and a quite complicated one.

In the first place, look at what kind of people made up Hollywood and the Film industry.

From the beginning, at the production level, there were many Jewish people and also immigrants with a European Background, often Russian, Polish, Eastern European. There were also Australians, Canadians and British there from the beginning. Also Asians, Indians (from India) and South Americans.
All these mixed groups co-existed at all levels in the industry - Actors, Writers, Agents, Stuntmen - you name it.
There were also Negroes involved behind the scenes from the beginning.

So why would these people have initiated or carried out Racist policies?

We need to remember that Film was always suspect as a medium to powerful conservative bodies that presumed to speak for, 'The people'
The content of films was restricted by what was known as the 'Hays Code' -
http://www.filmreference.com/encyclopedia/Independent-Film-Road-Movies/Race-and-Ethnicity-THE-PRODUCTION-CODE-AND-MISCEGENATION.html

The Motion Picture Producers and Distributors Association (MPPA) Production Code of 1930 (enforced after 1934)

  but before that

he pre-Code industry restrictions of 1927, called "The Don'ts and Be Carefuls,"

These kinds of bodies - in the US in particular, but also operating in other countries - use economic power - threat of boycott - to restrict media content.

Unfortunately, the anti-miscegenation part of the code meant that many actors of color were discriminated against even more, and Chinese-American actress Anna May Wong wasn't cast as the lead in The Good Earth because the male lead was a white actor.   

In Radio and Television in the early days, this kind of censorship was imposed by advertisers who mandated what kind of content they didn't want their products associated with. This accounts for the blandness of much of US Radio and Television right up to the present day. [Until Cable and Netflix, and now, not surprisingly, it has gone in the opposite direction. Too far and too fast?
Creators often chafe against censorship and it's often interesting to see the subliminal elements in content that creators use to subvert and comment on the limitations.
https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a32290089/hollywood-hays-code/

As director Edward Dmytryk explained, "[The Code] had a very good effect because it made us think. If we wanted to get something across that was censorable...we had to do it deviously. We had to be clever. And it usually turned out to be much better than if we had done it straight." 

It's not just in casting that there is [I would say cultural rather than racial] discrimination. The US Western is often an example of an unreal fantasy world, with only some relation to reality. They are modern fairy tales or morality tales. 
The influence of the Spanish, French, Negro and Asian, also even European [Jewish and Christian] peoples in the American West has until recently been almost completely ignored, downplayed or caricatured.       

As recently as The 1950s, heroic and respected Native American leading roles were played by non- Native Americans

If you think things have changed, I give you Hawaii Five 0.
Here we have a series set in Hawaii - with Hawaiian actors right? Um, no.
The original cast included - An Australian, Alex O'Loughlin, A New Yorker, Scott Caan, and cast as native Hawaiians, Korean- Born Daniel Dae Kim and Korean/Canadian Actress Grace Park. I don't see this as necessarily racism, but at worst insensitivity, Although, in this case, 
when most of the cast was given a payrise, Kim and Park were not, and so they left the show.
Bear in mind, this is not confined to Hollywood. The British spy James Bond has been played by a Scott, an Australian and an Irishman. I haven't heard many loud complaints about that.   
Shakespeare's Othello the Moor has until recently, rarely been played by a Negro.
I don't think these things are evidence of deliberate racism, more of insensitivity.

While there are definitely individuals and groups that are racist, I think that 'the people' as a whole are not as racist as the media and 'informed opinion' would like to have us think.
Today, there are few families that, through marriage and relationships, are not composed of a mixture of people of racial and ethnic backgrounds. 
       
     

[Electricmastro]

this kind of censorship was imposed by advertisers who mandated what kind of content they didn't want their products associated with.

I don't see this as necessarily racism, but at worst insensitivity, Although, in this case, 
when most of the cast was given a payrise, Kim and Park were not, and so they left the show.
Bear in mind, this is not confined to Hollywood. The British spy James Bond has been played by a Scott, an Australian and an Irishman. I haven't heard many loud complaints about that.

While there are definitely individuals and groups that are racist, I think that 'the people' as a whole are not as racist as the media and 'informed opinion' would like to have us think.
Today, there are few families that, through marriage and relationships, are not composed of a mixture of people of racial and ethnic backgrounds.

Agreed Panther, I very much get the feeling it had to do more with product, advertising, and insensitive, evidence-lacking presumptions than anything else. It is important to see the bigger picture and bear in mind that other places such as Asia and Europe have discriminated and antagonized people, for one, on suspicion of being ?the other.? Their histories aren?t the same as America?s of course. Then again, their own histories of slavery and treatment of people such as how the Jews were treated in antiquity and the Middle Ages, clashing with Christian beliefs and such, isn?t something that should be pushed aside either. This is not to hold America less accountable for its bad people, but again to see the bigger picture and hold the whole world accountable for its bad people and the dehumanization caused by them, regardless of how different their dehumanizations are compared to America?s.

[Robb_K]

this kind of censorship was imposed by advertisers who mandated what kind of content they didn't want their products associated with.

I don't see this as necessarily racism, but at worst insensitivity, Although, in this case, 
when most of the cast was given a payrise, Kim and Park were not, and so they left the show.
Bear in mind, this is not confined to Hollywood. The British spy James Bond has been played by a Scott, an Australian and an Irishman. I haven't heard many loud complaints about that.

While there are definitely individuals and groups that are racist, I think that 'the people' as a whole are not as racist as the media and 'informed opinion' would like to have us think.
Today, there are few families that, through marriage and relationships, are not composed of a mixture of people of racial and ethnic backgrounds.

Agreed Panther, I very much get the feeling it had to do more with product, advertising, and insensitive, evidence-lacking presumptions than anything else. It is important to see the bigger picture and bear in mind that other places such as Asia and Europe have discriminated and antagonized people, for one, on suspicion of being ?the other.? Their histories aren?t the same as America?s of course. Then again, their own histories of slavery and treatment of people such as how the Jews were treated in antiquity and the Middle Ages, clashing with Christian beliefs and such, isn?t something that should be pushed aside either. This is not to hold America less accountable for its bad people, but again to see the bigger picture and hold the whole world accountable for its bad people and the dehumanization caused by them, regardless of how different their dehumanizations are compared to America?s.

Absolutely!  The Americans were English, and later, English and Scottish, when they started their unique "American" ("White" American) Chauvanism and xenphobia.  The institution of slavery, needed for getting almost free labour to produce great wealth, was the reason to keep a large segment of the population powerless.  And tying skin colour to legalising that lower status helps the people in power to hold onto their power, and helps keep the masses of people who share the better status, but who have much less power than the tiny group of REAL power holders from questioning how THEY, in turn, are mistreated by the real power holders who are stealing their resources.  They pit the different non power-holding groups in society against each other, to keep them all occupied so much that they can't concentrate on how they are being ripped off by the big power holders.  It doesn't really matter what system a country has or ever had in history, since the political entities grew above small village level, the few people at the top had most of the power, and the masses of people got less than their fair share of resources.  Different systems had different (but analogous) ways of keeping control over the economies.

EVERY country has racism, which has been worse or less bad during different periods. 

My point in this thread was to point out that I was surprised that the newspaper comics decided to also make their Chinese detective look like an Englishman, as did the film company, when they would have had less reason to do so.  But it turns out that the newspaper editor, who needed to show the owners that he brought in more circulation proceeds (and profit) than less, felt that using film star, Boris Karloff's name in the strip title, would probably bring in more readers than without it.  It was neither racism on the editor's part, nor  catering to expected racism of the expected readers, but rather, the  name recognition effect of Karloff's star power.

[The Australian Panther]

It was neither racism on the editor's part, nor  catering to expected racism of the expected readers, but rather, the  name recognition effect of Karloff's star power.

Exactly!

[Captain Audio]

I have to wonder what Robb_K's opinion is of Somalia and its people.
Every black slave of Bantu decent and most others of Sub Saharan decent are descended from men, women and children torn from their homes by force, their family and friends butchered before their eyes, during the generations long genocidal campaigns of the Somalians, then tortured into submission and sold to Arab slave traders.

How many Chinese Americans had any interest in serious film acting? There were a few who were very popular in lesser supporting roles and as comic relief. Anna May Wong is a prime example of why. Growing up in California her speech was that of a Valley Girl, sounding more like Betty Boop than a Dragon Lady. In films where she played a Chinese character they had to dub her lines. She studied hard to develop a more cultured voice and ended up sounding like a British School Marm. That worked out well later on when she became a Femme Fatal in British films.

[Robb_K]

I have to wonder what Robb_K's opinion is of Somalia and its people.
Every black slave of Bantu decent and most others of Sub Saharan decent are descended from men, women and children torn from their homes by force, their family and friends butchered before their eyes, during the generations long genocidal campaigns of the Somalians, then tortured into submission and sold to Arab slave traders.

How many Chinese Americans had any interest in serious film acting? There were a few who were very popular in lesser supporting roles and as comic relief. Anna May Wong is a prime example of why. Growing up in California her speech was that of a Valley Girl, sounding more like Betty Boop than a Dragon Lady. In films where she played a Chinese character they had to dub her lines. She studied hard to develop a more cultured voice and ended up sounding like a British School Marm. That worked out well later on when she became a Femme Fatal in British films. 

I don't condone murder and making war for booty and taking prisoners to be slaves.  All 5 of the countries in which I currently live (again, once I can get on an airplane again), The Netherlands, Canada, Germany, USA, and even benign Denmark, had slaves working the fields in their tropical and subtropical colonies (which were lands stolen from indigenous peoples), and/or have histories of mistreatment of their ethnic minorities.  I know very well, because, I, myself, have been the victim of ethnic bigotry even in benign Canada, Netherlands, and Denmark, and The Germans killed fully half my extended family, and in USA, I have experienced racial bigotry.  Even very welcoming and benign, Denmark, had slaves on their plantations The Virgin Islands, and The Netherlands, the first almost fully democratic republic, had slaves in their South American colonies.  So, I know that USA is far from being alone in their maltreatment of their residents.

I'm sure that the studios could have found Chinese-American actors capable enough and willing to play the parts of Mr. Wong and Charlie Chan, and I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

[The Australian Panther]

  Growing up in California her speech was that of a Valley Girl, sounding more like Betty Boop than a Dragon Lady.

Well, faking an accent is part and parcel of acting. Is it harder for a Chinese/American to do a Chinese accent than it is for a European American to do a Chinese accent? Remember Marlon Brando playing a Japanese? Nowadays every major actor employs a dialogue coach.
Most Americans would be amazed at how many actors in sometimes major roles - that they take for granted are American, are not. It's part of the game. I can sit here and write dozens of examples. In the  case of Alex O'Loughlin, most Australians don't know that he was Australian Born. In the case of Australia - just off the top of my head, Anna Torv, Anthony LaPaglia,Simon Baker. In any case, Dialogue can be dubbed. And has been in many famous film roles, also singers. In many of the famous musical movies, the singer you hear h is not the featured Actress. 
Hollywood is all about faking it. Everybody is actually somebody else. That's one of its characteristics.
The Rock is Samoan, from American Samoa, and proud of it. But he almost never plays a Samoan in films. Too limiting. 

How many Chinese Americans had any interest in serious film acting?

Seriously? The point is, since many never got the chance,we just don't really know. The West Coast - LA and SF are the dropping off points for Chinese, Asians and others from the pacific wanting to come to the USA. Still is. And everybody in LA is either interested in 'Show Business' or has some connection with it.
Here is a book on the subject.

Hollywood Chinese: The Chinese in American Feature Films presents an intimate look at the Chinese American role and influence in Hollywood, from some of the earliest films set in America?s Chinatowns to the contemporary artists remaking the face of Hollywood. Filled with more than 500 stunning, vintage photographs, movie posters, lobby cards and assorted ephemera based on the author?s extraordinary personal collection, this lavish coffee-table book?s richly illustrated pages show the myths, misconceptions, and memorable moments of the Chinese in film.

Dong?s narrative is enhanced by extensive interviews with Hollywood actors, directors, and producers, including Ang Lee, Nancy Kwan, Justin Lin, James Hong, Joan Chen, Wayne Wang, and David Henry Hwang, and writer Amy Tan.

 

https://www.hollywoodheritage.org/online-store/Hollywood-Chinese-The-Chinese-in-American-Feature-Films-p187218283

Cheers!
           

[Electricmastro]

I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

Is it fair to say that it was around 1950 when Native Americans really started to get appreciated more on a human level in the wake of Jay Silverheels? portrayal of Tonto on The Lone Ranger? It rather surprised me in retrospect how many comic books were popping up with leading non-white heroes in the form of Native American characters like Straight Arrow, Young Eagle, and even Tonto himself getting his own long-lasting series over at Dell.

[Electricmastro]

How many Chinese Americans had any interest in serious film acting?

Apologies for duplicates and examples that are too modern, but to give an idea:

[Robb_K]

I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

Is it fair to say that it was around 1950 when Native Americans really started to get appreciated more on a human level in the wake of Jay Silverheels? portrayal of Tonto on The Lone Ranger? It rather surprised in retrospect how many comic books were popping up with leading non-white heroes in the form of Native American characters like Straight Arrow, Young Eagle, and even Tonto himself getting his own long-lasting series over at Dell.

I would agree with that.  At the time The Lone Ranger started, The US was not ready for a Native American lead character.  Before that, they could only be villains or comical not-so-competent sidekicks.  Giving him the name "Tonto" (meaning "dumb" or "stupid" in Spanish), did Jay no favours.  But Jay brought dignity to the part, and being a dedicated representative for his people, fought hard, at every turn, to get the writers and producer to have Tonto be a morally strong and competent help to The Lone Ranger in fighting against wrong-doers.  He won a lot of those battles, because his stand-up character developed a substantial following among the viewers, and because he had been so determined to have his people be respected, where others had been less adamant.

[Captain Audio]

How many Chinese Americans had any interest in serious film acting?

Apologies for duplicates and examples that are too modern, but to give an idea:

You realize most of the actors on that page had zero to do with film making of the thirties and forties when Charlie Chan films were being made. Some weren't even born till decades later.
Key Luke was in the Charlie Chan films as Number One son, he played the role mainly as comic relief.

[Captain Audio]

I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

Is it fair to say that it was around 1950 when Native Americans really started to get appreciated more on a human level in the wake of Jay Silverheels? portrayal of Tonto on The Lone Ranger? It rather surprised in retrospect how many comic books were popping up with leading non-white heroes in the form of Native American characters like Straight Arrow, Young Eagle, and even Tonto himself getting his own long-lasting series over at Dell.

I would agree with that.  At the time The Lone Ranger started, The US was not ready for a Native American lead character.  Before that, they could only be villains or comical not-so-competent sidekicks.  Giving him the name "Tonto" (meaning "dumb" or "stupid" in Spanish), did Jay no favours.  But Jay brought dignity to the part, and being a dedicated representative for his people, fought hard, at every turn, to get the writers and producer to have Tonto be a morally strong and competent help to The Lone Ranger in fighting against wrong-doers.  He won a lot of those battles, because his stand-up character developed a substantial following among the viewers, and because he had been so determined to have his people be respected, where others had been less adamant.

The Spanish picked up use of the term from the neighboring tribes of the Apache.

The Tonto Apache (Dilzhę́??, also Dilzhe'e, Dilzhe?eh Apache) is one of the groups of Western Apache people. The term is also used for their dialect, one of the three dialects of the Western Apache language (a Southern Athabaskan language). The Chiricahua living to the south called them Ben-et-dine or binii?e'dine' (?brainless people?, ?people without minds?, i.e. "wild", "crazy", "Those who you don?t understand").[1] The neighboring Western Apache ethnonym for them was Koun'nde ("wild rough People"), from which the Spanish derived their use of Tonto ("loose", "foolish") for the group. The kindred but enemy Navajo to the north called both the Tonto Apache and their allies, the Yavapai, Dilzhʼ?ʼ din?ʼiʼ ? ?People with high-pitched voices?).
"The Tonto Apache (Dilzhę́??, also Dilzhe'e, Dilzhe?eh Apache) is one of the groups of Western Apache people. The term is also used for their dialect, one of the three dialects of the Western Apache language (a Southern Athabaskan language). The Chiricahua living to the south called them Ben-et-dine or binii?e'dine' (?brainless people?, ?people without minds?, i.e. "wild", "crazy", "Those who you don?t understand").[1] The neighboring Western Apache ethnonym for them was Koun'nde ("wild rough People"), from which the Spanish derived their use of Tonto ("loose", "foolish") for the group. The kindred but enemy Navajo to the north called both the Tonto Apache and their allies, the Yavapai, Dilzhʼ?ʼ din?ʼiʼ ? ?People with high-pitched voices?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto_Apache

The common names for American Indian tribes are those given them by their neighboring tribes. Most Native American tribes name themselves "the people" in their own language.

The Tonto Apache are proud of the name just as most Americans are proud of the term "Yankees" which is British slang for pirates and thieves, based on the Dutch term for pirates which translates as "Little Jan".

[Captain Audio]

I don't condone murder and making war for booty and taking prisoners to be slaves.  All 5 of the countries in which I currently live (again, once I can get on an airplane again), The Netherlands, Canada, Germany, USA, and even benign Denmark, had slaves working the fields in their tropical and subtropical colonies (which were lands stolen from indigenous peoples), and/or have histories of mistreatment of their ethnic minorities.  I know very well, because, I, myself, have been the victim of ethnic bigotry even in benign Canada, Netherlands, and Denmark, and The Germans killed fully half my extended family, and in USA, I have experienced racial bigotry.  Even very welcoming and benign, Denmark, had slaves on their plantations The Virgin Islands, and The Netherlands, the first almost fully democratic republic, had slaves in their South American colonies.  So, I know that USA is far from being alone in their maltreatment of their residents.

I'm sure that the studios could have found Chinese-American actors capable enough and willing to play the parts of Mr. Wong and Charlie Chan, and I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

If you ever want to put slavery in any sort of historical perspective study the Justinian Code and the Forum Judicum.

Every race practiced institutional slavery. Every race and Nation seized land and property from weaker neighbors.
Every race had racist policies, though in ancient times they were prejudiced on the basis of cultural differences rather than skin color.
When a large number of freed slaves were bankrolled by wealthy Americans in a back to Africa movement they settled in what is now Liberia and immediately enslaved local African tribes.
There have been horrific genocidal wars of Black on Black racism. The participants so alike in appearance and shared languages they had to check ID's at road blocks to weed out those they considered inferior.

I'm sure that the studios could have found Chinese-American actors capable enough and willing to play the parts of Mr. Wong and Charlie Chan,

Name a few.
The Asian actors who played the sons of Charley Chan were very popular and talented young actors, but without the gravitas to play the great detective. During that time period few available Chinese American film actors were old enough or experienced enough for a major role.
Do you think Anthony Quin , a Mexican American, was not a good choice for the role of Zorba the Greek? Would Telly Savalas have been a better choice? How about George Chakiris?

[Robb_K]

I don't condone murder and making war for booty and taking prisoners to be slaves.  All 5 of the countries in which I currently live (again, once I can get on an airplane again), The Netherlands, Canada, Germany, USA, and even benign Denmark, had slaves working the fields in their tropical and subtropical colonies (which were lands stolen from indigenous peoples), and/or have histories of mistreatment of their ethnic minorities.  I know very well, because, I, myself, have been the victim of ethnic bigotry even in benign Canada, Netherlands, and Denmark, and The Germans killed fully half my extended family, and in USA, I have experienced racial bigotry.  Even very welcoming and benign, Denmark, had slaves on their plantations The Virgin Islands, and The Netherlands, the first almost fully democratic republic, had slaves in their South American colonies.  So, I know that USA is far from being alone in their maltreatment of their residents.

I'm sure that the studios could have found Chinese-American actors capable enough and willing to play the parts of Mr. Wong and Charlie Chan, and I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

If you ever want to put slavery in any sort of historical perspective study the Justinian Code and the Forum Judicum.

Every race practiced institutional slavery. Every race and Nation seized land and property from weaker neighbors.
Every race had racist policies, though in ancient times they were prejudiced on the basis of cultural differences rather than skin color.
When a large number of freed slaves were bankrolled by wealthy Americans in a back to Africa movement they settled in what is now Liberia and immediately enslaved local African tribes.
There have been horrific genocidal wars of Black on Black racism. The participants so alike in appearance and shared languages they had to check ID's at road blocks to weed out those they considered inferior.

I'm sure that the studios could have found Chinese-American actors capable enough and willing to play the parts of Mr. Wong and Charlie Chan,

Name a few.
The Asian actors who played the sons of Charley Chan were very popular and talented young actors, but without the gravitas to play the great detective. During that time period few available Chinese American film actors were old enough or experienced enough for a major role.
Do you think Anthony Quin , a Mexican American, was not a good choice for the role of Zorba the Greek? Would Telly Savalas have been a better choice? How about George Chakiris?

This is circular reasoning.  The bulk of the Chinese Americans in California were descendants of those who came there during the 1850s and 1860s to build the railroads and other building projects to accommodate the large population immigrating there from The East, and build the new cities.  By the 1930s 4 generations of children had grown up there.  Although they lived in Chinese Ghettos, many of them spoke English reasonably well for people who grew up in Chinese-speaking homes.  Some of them aspired to be actors.  But, there were probably not many old ones, because they would never have been allowed to play leading roles, and what roles they could play in English language mass media films were demeaning stereotypes.  They wouldn't starve just to hang around 40 years for scattered roles that wouldn't have enjoyed playing. 

[Captain Audio]

They wouldn't starve just to hang around 40 years for scattered roles that wouldn't have enjoyed playing.

So you don't believe that Caucasian actors ever went without and took demeaning low paying work while studying acting and taking work as extras for 25cents a day and a baloney sandwich (actual pay for extras on DW Griffith films) while waiting for that big break?
I remember an actor of the 60's telling of going to an automat and getting the free hot water provided to make instant coffee, He couldn't afford to drink coffee he used the water and free packets of ketchup to make tomato soup which he ate with the free packets of crackers. That was his noon time meal as he spent all his cash on acting lessons.

Chinese Americans had their own thriving theatre, in California at least. They concentrated on traditional Chinese plays much like many popular modern Chinese films. They weren't interested in Shakespeare and to white audiences the convoluted plots were  a mystery and so difficult to follow that it was a chore to sit through them. Same goes for many modern Chinese films which few would watch if not for the CGI chop-socky action scenes.

[Electricmastro]

But, there were probably not many old ones, because they would never have been allowed to play leading roles, and what roles they could play in English language mass media films were demeaning stereotypes.  They wouldn't starve just to hang around 40 years for scattered roles that wouldn't have enjoyed playing.

I suppose that makes someone like Bruce Lee was the ?Jay Silverheels of the Chinese? then, in that Bruce Lee showed you could genuinely have Chinese people being cool in movies and even compel the most money-minded of producers that they don?t have to capitalize on Chinese stereotypes like Fu Man Chu to sell more tickets.

[Robb_K]

I know several Native Americans who knew fellow tribesmen and men from other tribes who would have been willing and capable of playing the parts of Cochise, Geronimo, Sitting Bull, crazy Horse, and the like.  Russell Means complained to me about that.  I knew several Apaches who could have played Geronimo, well.  The parts they got didn't have long, complicated English dialogues.

Is it fair to say that it was around 1950 when Native Americans really started to get appreciated more on a human level in the wake of Jay Silverheels? portrayal of Tonto on The Lone Ranger? It rather surprised in retrospect how many comic books were popping up with leading non-white heroes in the form of Native American characters like Straight Arrow, Young Eagle, and even Tonto himself getting his own long-lasting series over at Dell.

I would agree with that.  At the time The Lone Ranger started, The US was not ready for a Native American lead character.  Before that, they could only be villains or comical not-so-competent sidekicks.  Giving him the name "Tonto" (meaning "dumb" or "stupid" in Spanish), did Jay no favours.  But Jay brought dignity to the part, and being a dedicated representative for his people, fought hard, at every turn, to get the writers and producer to have Tonto be a morally strong and competent help to The Lone Ranger in fighting against wrong-doers.  He won a lot of those battles, because his stand-up character developed a substantial following among the viewers, and because he had been so determined to have his people be respected, where others had been less adamant.

The Spanish picked up use of the term from the neighboring tribes of the Apache.

The Tonto Apache (Dilzhę́??, also Dilzhe'e, Dilzhe?eh Apache) is one of the groups of Western Apache people. The term is also used for their dialect, one of the three dialects of the Western Apache language (a Southern Athabaskan language). The Chiricahua living to the south called them Ben-et-dine or binii?e'dine' (?brainless people?, ?people without minds?, i.e. "wild", "crazy", "Those who you don?t understand").[1] The neighboring Western Apache ethnonym for them was Koun'nde ("wild rough People"), from which the Spanish derived their use of Tonto ("loose", "foolish") for the group. The kindred but enemy Navajo to the north called both the Tonto Apache and their allies, the Yavapai, Dilzhʼ?ʼ din?ʼiʼ ? ?People with high-pitched voices?).
"The Tonto Apache (Dilzhę́??, also Dilzhe'e, Dilzhe?eh Apache) is one of the groups of Western Apache people. The term is also used for their dialect, one of the three dialects of the Western Apache language (a Southern Athabaskan language). The Chiricahua living to the south called them Ben-et-dine or binii?e'dine' (?brainless people?, ?people without minds?, i.e. "wild", "crazy", "Those who you don?t understand").[1] The neighboring Western Apache ethnonym for them was Koun'nde ("wild rough People"), from which the Spanish derived their use of Tonto ("loose", "foolish") for the group. The kindred but enemy Navajo to the north called both the Tonto Apache and their allies, the Yavapai, Dilzhʼ?ʼ din?ʼiʼ ? ?People with high-pitched voices?).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonto_Apache

The common names for American Indian tribes are those given them by their neighboring tribes. Most Native American tribes name themselves "the people" in their own language.

The Tonto Apache are proud of the name just as most Americans are proud of the term "Yankees" which is British slang for pirates and thieves, based on the Dutch term for pirates which translates as "Little Jan".

Thanks for that information.  I'm shocked that I somehow missed that, after working 11 years for The Navajo Nation, visiting Window Rock regularly.  But, I guess The Din?h wouldn't volunteer that information. 
But, like me, many more Americans in The US Southwest knew "tonto" meant "stupid" in Spanish, and didn't know that Tonto was an Apache tribe.  So, they DID make fun of that.  I was a witness to that many times during the early 1950s.

As a Dutchman, and a historian, I rather think that the term, "Yankee" started as a derisive term the long-entrenched Dutch colonists had for their new English colonist neighbours, who came to the former New Netherlands (Hudson Valley, New York, New Jersey, northern Delaware), after The English took over for the final time in 1673. I doubt that a name that Carribbean-based British sailors had for Dutch pirates could have been imported to New York, and be adopted by masses of locals.  Also, The "Jan Kees" (John Cheese) theory makes no sense to me.  "Kees" is not Dutch.  It is Plattdeutsch for "cheese".  Cheese in Dutch is "Kaas".  No Low Saxons were settlers in New Netherlands.  My guess is that the Dutch farmers heard the English mothers call their sons home, and the most common boy's name was "John".  The diminutive was "Johnny".  A rival group of men, wanting to poke fun at their local rivals would use derogatory terms that implied that they were inferior (smaller and weaker).  "Janneke" (Yan-neh-kehh) would have been the best insulting Dutch form of "Little Johnny".  That would be the most likely Dutch word to end up as the English "Yankee", when spoken by Anglophones decades later, who had never heard Dutch spoken.  Later, the English settlers, no longer rivals of The Dutch, used that now non-derogatory term, for ALL the people in New York City, and the former Dutch portions of New York state.

[Robb_K]

They wouldn't starve just to hang around 40 years for scattered roles that wouldn't have enjoyed playing.

So you don't believe that Caucasian actors ever went without and took demeaning low paying work while studying acting and taking work as extras for 25cents a day and a baloney sandwich (actual pay for extras on DW Griffith films) while waiting for that big break?
I remember an actor of the 60's telling of going to an automat and getting the free hot water provided to make instant coffee, He couldn't afford to drink coffee he used the water and free packets of ketchup to make tomato soup which he ate with the free packets of crackers. That was his noon time meal as he spent all his cash on acting lessons.

Chinese Americans had their own thriving theatre, in California at least. They concentrated on traditional Chinese plays much like many popular modern Chinese films. They weren't interested in Shakespeare and to white audiences the convoluted plots were  a mystery and so difficult to follow that it was a chore to sit through them. Same goes for many modern Chinese films which few would watch if not for the CGI chop-socky action scenes.

What does a glass ceiling for leading parts for people of Chinese extraction leading to their not wanting to stay in a field where their only chance for work is in bit parts have to do with whether or not Caucasian-Americans want to stay in that field or not, if they are having a hard time getting work, or good parts.  Those two situations are extremely different, and have no bearing upon each other.

I get the feeling that you think I hate The US, and am deliberately bad-mouthing it, so you are subconsciously trying to show me that The American people are no more villains than any other people.  I admitted that very same thing in a post above.  But, I've met many, many Native Americans, Chinese, and African-American people from the 1920s-1940s who told me things WERE the way I described them, and have read many books and articles describing that, and the fact that Chinese, African Americans, and Native Americans had laws restricting what they could do in their lives and the fact that when those minorities had successful businesses that were more successful than Caucasian competitors they were often lynched or otherwise murdered, leads me to believe that the major studios DID have reason to avoid showing hated minority actors in leading roles portraying deeds worthy of respect, for fear of losing maybe 25-35 percent of their potential regular customers.

THAT is NOT saying that I think ALL or MOST Americans during the 1920s through the 1940s were racists.  So you shouldn't think I am deliberately trying to insult your country, or imply that it was more racist than all other countries.  Half of my family was gassed to death in Auschwitz in 1943 and 1944.  So, I know that isn't true.  But, I find it difficult to believe that there were NO American men of Chinese descent aged 40-55 that could have played Charlie Chan or Mr. Wong during the 1930s and 1940s, and been more convincing than Boris Karloff, Sidney Toler and Warner Oland, especially after having experienced racism myself, personally, in 1950 in USA on my very first visit there, and seen it first hand every day in the Ghettos of Chicago and L.A. for years.  But, as you stated, it exists everywhere, and I've seen plenty of it in Germany, and even seen it plenty in The UK, and in benign Denmark and The Netherlands. 

In any case, my original point was NOT to call out USA for racism.  THAT would be off-topic.  That is not why we all are here.  We are here to discuss The Comics.  My point was that I thought it was interesting, and somewhat surprising, that although the film industry felt compelled to use Caucasians in parts that would have been more convincing using people who looked like the people they were attempting to portray, because of fear they would alienate a significant portion of their potential customers, the newspaper strips wouldn't seem to have that restriction.  But, I explained, above, that the newspaper strip used the Caucasian man's image, to piggyback on the film series, and use Karloff's star power to bring film buffs in as readers, who might otherwise not have given the strip a look.

My intention was NOT to go off-topic, into how racist or not The USA is, and how that compares to racism in other countries.

[Captain Audio]

As a Dutchman, and a historian, I rather think that the term, "Yankee" started as a derisive term the long-entrenched Dutch colonists had for their new English colonist neighbours, who came to the former New Netherlands (Hudson Valley, New York, New Jersey, northern Delaware), after The English took over for the final time in 1673. I doubt that a name that Carribbean-based British sailors had for Dutch pirates could have been imported to New York, and be adopted by masses of locals.  Also, The "Jan Kees" (John Cheese) theory makes no sense to me.  "Kees" is not Dutch.  It is Plattdeutsch for "cheese".  Cheese in Dutch is "Kaas".  No Low Saxons were settlers in New Netherlands.  My guess is that the Dutch farmers heard the English mothers call their sons home, and the most common boy's name was "John".  The diminutive was "Johnny".  A rival group of men, wanting to poke fun at their local rivals would use derogatory terms that implied that they were inferior (smaller and weaker).  "Janneke" (Yan-neh-kehh) would have been the best insulting Dutch form of "Little Johnny".  That would be the most likely Dutch word to end up as the English "Yankee", when spoken by Anglophones decades later, who had never heard Dutch spoken.  Later, the English settlers, no longer rivals of The Dutch, used that now non-derogatory term, for ALL the people in New York City, and the former Dutch portions of New York state.

I think this is more likely, though all may have contributed. From wikipedia.

Linguist Jan de Vries notes that there was mention of a pirate named Dutch Yanky in the 17th century.[13] The Life and Adventures of Sir Launcelot Greaves (1760) contains the passage, "Haul forward thy chair again, take thy berth, and proceed with thy story in a direct course, without yawing like a Dutch yanky."[14]

Jan Willems (died 1688), also known as Janke or Yankey Willems, was a 17th-century Dutch buccaneer. Based out of Petit-Go?ve,

PS

I doubt that a name that Carribbean-based British sailors had for Dutch pirates could have been imported to New York

You may be unaware that the Royal Navy vessels stationed in the Caribbean patrolled the Eastern Seaboard of of North America. I'd read that Yankee became a common epithet due to the British seamen associating the smugglers and later privateers based in the Northern colonies with the Dutch.
They could have cared less whether the American sailors were of British or Dutch ancestry.
BTW it was British troops stationed in the Caribbean who during the war of 1812 burned Washington DC under orders from the Governor General of Canada.
One good thing about a large navy is the ability to move ships and men vast distances in relatively little time to take their enemies unaware.

[Andrew999]

Just as an aside - in case no one's mentioned it - in the Spanish language version, Tonto is called Toro (Bull) which seems more appropriate.