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Builderboy's Uploads

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topic icon Author Topic: Builderboy's Uploads  (Read 19785 times)

builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2010, 12:07:21 AM »

BTW, I posted tonight, under the original uploader's name, the All-star FreddyFly, an upgrade to his recent Wings Comics 012.  In my box from JVJ was the very issue, so it was like picking low-hanging fruit to scan the cover and make ff's book and all-paper scan.
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JVJ

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2010, 02:28:11 AM »


I understand both points of view. It came up several years ago at GCD. I preferred covers that had "warts" they looked like used comics. The majority preferred the best version. I tend to prefer scans that look like the book in hand wear and tear included. That is the collector in me as opposed to the art aficionado that is Jim. Both are valid points from different perspectives.

It's the distinctly different attitude of a comic book's "value" being in the content (the "art" - as I see it) and in the physical book (the "artifact" - as most folks like you see it, narf). It's why I'm perfectly willing to send my "artifacts" through the mail and let them be subjected to the stresses of scanning. The "artifacts" are not the main value to me. What's inside of them IS. It's also why I think that reproducing the, not to put too fine a point on it, FLAWS of the artifact, at the expense of the art, seems to be, again not to be subtle about it, a coyly self-referential defamation of the art and the artists.

We have agreed to disagree on this point, but that "warts and all" approach gets us into the neighborhood of the "so bad it's good" attitude that I also abhor. Making something look old, even if it IS old, calls attention to the "Thing" rather than its contents. Are you collecting and reading comic books for the contents or because they're comic books? Frankly, I'm interested in the contents, which explains why I have those brittle books that you like, narf. I don't like them because they're brittle - except as it makes them affordable and allows me (and YOU) to enjoy their CONTENTS.

I'm never going to convince any scanners or downloaders of the validity of my, granted, opinion. So be it, but I believe that all of you are way too hung up on the notion of "old paper." Perhaps I'm way too hung up on the notion of "comics as art", but it's MY hangups that provided the source material for many of these scans, so I'm hogging the high ground here and you all get to cling to the precipices. Neener neener.

my 2
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 02:30:16 AM by JVJ »
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narfstar

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2010, 02:52:59 AM »

And we scanners get to hold those brittle gems in our hands and get the thrill. So we on the low ground win also. Occasionally the art in a comic blows me away. I am more a fan of the writer than the artist. I was one of those kids who actually read the words and still do. The hang up on the comics themselves is totally the feelings they induce. I can never again be ten unless "experiencing" the comic feel and smell stroy and art. Probably why I will buy a comic even if I have a scan. Also why it is so hard to part with the Silver Age comics that were most dear to my ten year old heart. There are some cover scans from the SA that can give me a thrill feel but not like the real thing. I use my scans as easily accessible reference tools to help out the comic book community and those like Roy Thomas and Tony I.
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JVJ

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2010, 04:15:06 AM »

And I'm so happy you're out there and willing to expend the effort to do the scanning, narf.
I'm getting to an age where I'm wondering about what's going to become of my comics after I die? I have no kids and would dearly love to give the collection to some institution that would both keep it intact AND keep it available to interested researchers. Sadly the notion of the value of the books and the integrity of the people using the collection would be a difficult dynamic to solve. Still it could be done with modern ID chips and such. I've yet to find a home for them. Anyone have any ideas? (ps. NOT available until AFTER I'm gone..)

Actually, I completely agree with you on the comics vs scan experience. I read the comics all through the periods I was buying them off the stands (1966-2005) but I eventually realized that I wasn't enjoying them any more and stopped buying after that. And you never can recapture that experience of the initial reading, so I guess my question to you is: why are you trying to?

You argue my point quite well. There IS nothing like the actual comic, so why in HELL are you trying to make the scan look like one? The only thing that's going to recapture that feel and story and art and joy of the initial experience is, perhaps, holding the comic in your hand again. You actually SAY you'll buy a comic "even if you have the scan." I don't blame you. Hell, I agree with you. You say "There are some cover scans from the SA that give me a thrill but not like the real thing." Okay, again I agree, wholeheartedly. If you are using your scans for accessible reference, why on earth do they have to be "warts and all" and reproducing the yellowed pulp paper?

There's something else going on here, narf, that you're either not fessing up to or else you're not admitting to yourself.

What's the real attraction of yellowed scans that you profess don't really recapture that thrill? Must be something...

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2010, 12:20:22 PM »

Jim,

Regarding your collection, one of the thoughts that I had about mine was that I had encountered something recently while taking my daughter to visit colleges. Two of them Brown University and I can't recall the other, made a point of informing the potential students on the campus tour that their library hosted an enormous collection of comics. Brown touted that theirs was the largest collection in North America, a boast I have heard elsewhere, and so doubt (largest public collection? largest library collection? maybe).

The point is this: it is a group who has NO financial pressure to split up the collection, who prides themselves on knowledge of preservation, and who make the collection available for as many as they can.

I am sure that if you gifted the school of your choice there would be HUGE gratitude. I am going to approach my alma matter soon regarding my collection to see what interest they have (I am sure they either have a collection started that they wish to expand, and wouldn't let Brown have bragging rights over them).  I'll let you know what they say.

Narf, while I am not on the same page with you on the writer vs. artist thing, I appreciate  your perspective, and agree with you about holding the durn things in hand. My problem is that my limited space has reached the upward limit of how many comics it should reasonably hold.  I have, in moments of lesser clarity, contemplated selling the homestead and buying a warehouse that could better accommodate the collection.  It is in moments such as this that it is wise to be married.

Narf....you actually...PARTED?...with your Silver Age collection?  Sounds like a story! Tell us more
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2010, 12:23:57 PM »


Do we rewind the Sistine Chapel to when Michelangelo painted it, put back the missing stones on Stonehenge, restore the Sphinx? Or enjoy their fading grace, which might enhance the art.

It's a strange conundrum, as I would like to see both.

I know the post was about fading comic books but it's my 2 penny's worth

Mark


Mark,

Devil's advocate in me coming out....you DO know that they did an extensive restoration to the Sistine ceiling, don't you? They stripped the browning layers of dirt and oil and brought the colors back to what they approximated were the originals.

....just sayin'....    ;)

thanks for keeping the conversation going.
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2010, 12:28:52 PM »

OH! and one more thing while I'm chatting it up here:  I thought I had successfully upped the completed Wings #12 last night...WHAT HAPPENED? I will make a second go of it right after this post. 

It is a clear example of the philosophic difference in restoration values between differing sets of eyes.  Again, nobody right or wrong. When people download this book some are going to say I wish it were all this way or that way.

Weigh in, if you would. The conversation is stimulating!
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JVJ

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2010, 04:08:37 PM »



Do we rewind the Sistine Chapel to when Michelangelo painted it, put back the missing stones on Stonehenge, restore the Sphinx? Or enjoy their fading grace, which might enhance the art.

It's a strange conundrum, as I would like to see both.

I know the post was about fading comic books but it's my 2 penny's worth

Mark


Mark,

Devil's advocate in me coming out....you DO know that they did an extensive restoration to the Sistine ceiling, don't you? They stripped the browning layers of dirt and oil and brought the colors back to what they approximated were the originals.

....just sayin'....    ;)

thanks for keeping the conversation going.


What I found most interesting about the Sistine Chapel restoration, bb, is how MUCH I learned from viewing the cleaned art. ASSUMING, of course, that the restorers were actually getting closer to the original. Think of all the preconceptions we've had based on dirt and smoke and layers of dirty, smokey wax. There are people who regard the cleaned work as blasphemous, but that doesn't alter the reality of that's most probably the way it was painted. So what if we became accustomed to dirty, old murals. Our acceptance of them in no way changes what they were meant to be. We have to suck it up and reexamine the work and learn to appreciate it anew. It's not easy, but it allows a more honest evaluation of the work.

Perhaps you don't care for the newly restored, brightly colored version. Okay. But then you should be able to explain what it was about the dirty version that you DID like. YOU need to examine YOUR preferences and likes and dislikes, without reference to Michelangelo - because now you're discussing taste not art. Do you prefer "vague" art? "Earth toned" art? "distorted art"? All of these are perfectly valid personal tastes, and those who purchase a book which reproduces the cleaned version are eminently capable of laying browned cellophane over every page to cater to their preferences. What they shouldn't be allowed to do it to write books that proclaim to be historic or critical and only reproduce the versions they like. That's a distortion of reality with a primary purpose of reinforcing one person's preference.

As for the Sphinx, I would love to see it restored. There is no sanctity in its current state as it was caused by ignorant French soldiers using it for cannon practice. How non-artistic can you get?

Stonehenge I'm less sure. One would have to know EXACTLY what it looked like to be able to restore it. If one was guessing, then I'd say leave it be. And, yes, one can say the restorers are guessing on the Sistine Ceiling, but they claim to be able to tell with 99+% certainty and potential for being wrong amounts to differences probably not noticeable to our human

Regarding the resolution of my collection, I would worry more about theft splitting up the collection, not the university. The "money" angle is the motivation for stealing, not the incentive it might supply a library.

I've been MOST fortunate in my life that I've only moved twice in 40 years and each time to a larger residence - this last one literally designed to hold the collection. And, I, too, parted with my Silver Age Marvel Collection in order help finance the remodeling into this final form. Sigh...

Peace, Jim (|:{>

« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 05:57:33 PM by JVJ »
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2010, 09:38:26 PM »

When I saw the Sistine, it was mid restoration, but mostly done, and could not get a grasp on the point of view of those who were aghast at the laying on of hands onto a masterpiece.  I know nothing about the people who they engaged to do the restoration work, but I have a sense that that they were themselves artist in their own rights.

I loved it. The vibrant color, the ability to see the brushwork. It seemed more energetic. I can't imagine if hadn't been done that I would love it as much.
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2010, 09:47:40 PM »

As an aside, I have picked another low-hanging fruit, and I have used JVJ's copy of Jungle Comics #11 to upgrade the existing copy on site. FreddyFly supplied the original 49 scans of the 68 total in the book, and I have supplied the balance along with an alternate cover scan.

I will likely scan the balance of the book, and leave its editing down in the priority list.

I must say, I have finally laid my eyes on my very first Fletcher Hanks story (Fantomah) in print, and can say that a long-held desire has finally been fulfilled. SWEEEEEEET.
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JVJ

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2010, 10:24:02 PM »


When I saw the Sistine, it was mid restoration, but mostly done, and could not get a grasp on the point of view of those who were aghast at the laying on of hands onto a masterpiece.  I know nothing about the people who they engaged to do the restoration work, but I have a sense that that they were themselves artist in their own rights.

I loved it. The vibrant color, the ability to see the brushwork. It seemed more energetic. I can't imagine if hadn't been done that I would love it as much.

I think you're right about the restorers being artists, bb.
Another great restoration feat which I've actually seen (I've not seen the Sistine Ceiling in person) is Lascaux II. I was not expecting much.

For those who don't know, Lascaux is the cave in France, discovered in 1940, with the Prehistoric paintings. It was closed to visitors in 1963 after moisture from human breaths were promoting a disfiguring and obscuring fungus on the walls.

Lascaux II is a replica near the original cave. Yeah, right, a "replica" - I was thinking like the original Pirates of the Caribbean at 1960s Disneyland. Oooh, look at the dioramas and fake stuff. Isn't it old and meaningful? NOT!

Well, I was blown away by the emotional hit I took when we entered the replica. Despite the crowd and the whiff of Disneyland people control, it was a memorable and moving experience. They had replicated the shape of the cave (the two major art chambers) precisely (within something like a quarter of an inch) and had hired local artists to make exact copies with the same type of original primitive tools and local pigments that were used 17,000 years ago. Part of me knew it was a copy, but the physical impact of being in a cave and surrounded by art which another part of me knew was ancient was extremely powerful.

You can tell the mind not to be fooled, apparently, but sometimes you just won't listen to yourself...

Peace, Jim (|:{>

The other originals I REALLY want to see are Mucha's canvases for his "Slav Epic" which will eventually get displayed in Prague - hopefully next year they'll be available.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2010, 10:29:45 PM by JVJ »
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boox909

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #36 on: August 29, 2010, 01:19:33 AM »


As an aside, I have picked another low-hanging fruit, and I have used JVJ's copy of Jungle Comics #11 to upgrade the existing copy on site. FreddyFly supplied the original 49 scans of the 68 total in the book, and I have supplied the balance along with an alternate cover scan.

I will likely scan the balance of the book, and leave its editing down in the priority list.

I must say, I have finally laid my eyes on my very first Fletcher Hanks story (Fantomah) in print, and can say that a long-held desire has finally been fulfilled. SWEEEEEEET.



A very welcomed upgrade! Thanks!!!  ;D ;D ;D
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 01:27:06 AM by boox909 »
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MarkWarner

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2010, 02:33:52 PM »

Actually after I posted I thought hang on the Sistine chapel is not a good example .. bit of a blonde moment there

On two rather slight tangents ... the one sight I'd love to see and I don't think we ever will is the inside of Emperor Qin's tomb (minus the mercury) ... it'll make Tutankhamun's treasures look like baubles.

I mentioned Stonehenge, but close by there are some other standing stones in Avebury http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avebury I have always found them much more eerie as they are around the village, it must be a strange place to live in. If you ever get the chance they are well worth a visit and it's a very short walk to the pub :) But my favourite is the Merry Maidens http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merry_maidens they are small and tucked away but the chances are you'll have the whole spot to yourself with not a tourist in sight. But it's strange to think when my ancestors were building Stonehenge probably not looking too different from Fred Flintstone, the Egyptians were writing, designing massive pyramids, the sphinx and building an empire.

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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2010, 01:36:49 AM »

Another upload for me tonight, a reposting of ae660's Jungle Comics #12.  The prior copy was missing a page, so I have supplied it from JVJ's copy, as well as an alternate scan of the cover (cuz it was SO sweet!).

I am working on a box of JVJ's, many of which are already on the site in an incomplete state.  I am scanning the books c2c and deferring the edits and posting of these completely redone books until I get the books that are completely missing up on site.

JVJ, if you're reading this, it is such a joy to be seeing this stuff first-hand. Thanks, my friend.
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JVJ

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2010, 03:05:40 AM »

You're very welcome, bb.
I'm overjoyed that you're having so much fun. That's what comic books are FOR.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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narfstar

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2010, 01:56:21 PM »

I know BB feeling when opening a box of gold. Now my frustration is seeing the box set there since I have not had time to scan or even read anything. There really is an extra amount of joy from actually holding some of these in your hot little hands. Maybe Labor Day if I survive the Sunshine Century
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2010, 07:34:11 PM »

I'll be rooting for you, narf! YELLOW JERSEY!

(do I have the right color? how embarrassing!)
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2010, 10:05:49 PM »

Up tonight, a little long weekend reading material:  Fiction House's Jungle Comics #042 from June 1943. A 60-page paper scan using updated editing techniques. Hope you like 'em.

This puppy contains some seriously gorgeous artwork by Reed Crandall (now I know where Herb Trimpe got his early Incredible Hulk stylings), Henry Kiefer, Robert Webb, Art Saaf, and Nick Cardy.
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boox909

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #43 on: September 07, 2010, 03:26:31 AM »


Up tonight, a little long weekend reading material:  Fiction House's Jungle Comics #042 from June 1943. A 60-page paper scan using updated editing techniques. Hope you like 'em.

This puppy contains some seriously gorgeous artwork by Reed Crandall (now I know where Herb Trimpe got his early Incredible Hulk stylings), Henry Kiefer, Robert Webb, Art Saaf, and Nick Cardy.


Thank you very much!!!  ;D ;D ;D
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JonTheScanner

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #44 on: September 07, 2010, 05:38:48 AM »

BuilderBoy,

It appears you have JVJ's copy of Jungle #12 since you just added the one missing page.  If this is correct, could I prevail upon you to rescan the whole thing, please.  The scan we have is quite small and the pages are watermarked Electro.  I don't know if Electro scans are actually verboten like GM scans are, but I'd love to see a bigger scan in any case.
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boox909

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #45 on: September 20, 2010, 06:13:42 AM »

Many thanks for the Fiction House The Spirit #3;D ;D ;D
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #46 on: September 20, 2010, 02:19:58 PM »

No problem, boox909!  I have #'s 4 & 5 that I will upload tonight, also torrent finds.  I did a courtesy check with JontheScanner to make sure that he didn't have plans to do his wonderful scans and HP edits on those issues.

As an aside, have you looked at Spirit 1 & 2?  Jon/Henry did an outstanding job delivering crisp, color-correct images. Nicely done, fellows.

This leads me to my next point:  I have scanned a couple of JVJ books in their entirety, ones that folks would like to see sooner than later...Jungle Comics #12 (to replace the Electro-Comics version currently on site) and Wings #17 (I believe FF was eager to see this).

The images are cropped and rotated, annoying edge defects remedied, but no color work yet.  I am of the mind, given the series of discussions we have had regarding image editing to do a release of the books pre-color correction.  Not that I won't...later down the road after completing the task of scanning the whole JVJ box-load...edit the books the way I like and submit.  But this way, less waiting and the folks on the side of no-color-correction will get what they want too.

What does everyone think of that?
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narfstar

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #47 on: September 21, 2010, 12:52:12 AM »

I think it is a great idea. I have put books up while being edited by someone else so that those who wanted raw and could not wait could get them. I later replaced them.
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #48 on: September 21, 2010, 08:16:38 PM »

Thanks for the feedback, narf.  That'll be my course of action, but FIRST!  Fiction House's run on The Spirit is now complete (give or take a page or two), with issue no.'s # 4 & 5 now up!

Gorgeous Will Eisner and Eisner Studio work for your viewing pleasure.  All the work of unknown scanners (Henry Peters has been credited by a user as the scanner of #3, but the three books seem to be the work of different individuals, as you will see by the variances in image quality from book to book).
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builderboy

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Re: Builderboy's Uploads
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2010, 09:26:55 PM »

Fiction House's Jungle Comics #12, in the raw, no watermarks, NOW UP!

If I don't hear any objections, I will take down the watermarked book that is currently on site in the next day or so.
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