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Scanning styles

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topic icon Author Topic: Scanning styles  (Read 9692 times)

octal

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Scanning styles
« on: March 22, 2008, 09:34:51 AM »

I've noticed that some scanners like to leave the natural comic look, even when the colors have faded, the paper has darkened, etc...

Others edit the scans to whiten the pages, brighten the colors, etc... For those who edit, there seems to be quite a range in how much editing is done. From fairly subtle (though still noticeable), to garish. I realize also that editing undoubtedly occurs that is so subtle that it is not noticeable. I guess I would classify this type of editing under the "natural look".

I prefer the "natural look" and would rather see no obvious editing unless it is required to salvage an otherwise unreadable comic. 

I know it all boils down to personal preference, that there is no right or wrong way, but I am interested in hearing what others think.

octal

« Last Edit: March 22, 2008, 09:40:37 AM by octal »
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Aussie500

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2008, 11:53:32 AM »

Personally l prefer the natural look, although sometimes the pages have badly yellowed, which can make reading them hard on the eyes. l see nothing wrong in returning the background to lighter colour, by reducing the amount of yellowing, but often the pages were not white to begin with, and making it stark white brightens the colours to much. People should remember when whitening what the colours should look like and tone the hue down to a more realistic colour on the golden age scans. Many comic reading programs do come with gamma correction and the ability to reduce the yellowing, so a scan of of badly aged comic can be improved. But some might not be to happy with the almost luminescent bright colours that can occur when the comic is whitened. True not many scanners make that mistake, but since we are only likely to get one scan of a golden age comic it would be nice to read it as it once was, or even as it is after all these years.
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Ramcrammer

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2008, 07:27:02 PM »

I prefer the natural look too, particularly if the book being scanned is "naturally" nice looking, with light pages and rich colors.  That's the ideal; like a book fresh off the press.  For then the scanner can leave the settings on "default" and get nice results.  If only life were so simple.

When I first began scanning--not that long ago--I tended to think much like our friend Octal, here.  That is, the less done to the scan, the better.  The "Give it to me, warts and all" approach.  I think I felt that way because I had come across so many over-corrected or "hyper-corrected" scans, and frankly, I was pretty discouraged and a little angry.  Compared to all that hyper-corrected material, the natural look seemed so refreshing, and I still feel that way.  Comics age "gracefully", and the natural softening of colors and yellowing of paper is much to be prefered to garish colors, and bright pages that make me what to squint.  Indeed, I will not read such material.  I now have a backlog of truly nice scans to read, so why waste time on dreck?

Now that I've been around the scanning community for awhile, I have seen what wonderful work some scanners have been doing.  The best scanners, I now feel, are doing moderate correction to lighten pages, but doing so without color shift.  That's the key; getting pages lighter without shifting, or overshifting the color balance.  Hyper-correction is typically accompanied by skin tones that have shifted toward the blue, resulting in flesh tones that are electric-pink or hot-pink.  Nothing is more disconcerting to me as a comics reader, than a comic with hideous pink flesh tones. Such results seem much worse to me than leaving the page entirely natural, dark, or yellow.   

Doing page lightening properly, I think, is an art.  It takes a good eye, and also a sense of what the original page looked like, back in the day, when it was fresh off the press.  I find it all too easy to over lighten, and I would caution newbee scanners to approach lightening cautiously, especially at first.  There is more to it than simply adjusting gamma.  Only after some experience and a good understanding of color theory, as well as a feel for the lightening process itself, should more agressive lightening be attempted.  In any case, I never try to make the page look whiter than fresh newsprint, which is actually off-white, even when fresh.  And I always try to maintain natural unaltered flesh tones.  If the flesh color looks off, I know the page is hyper-corrected or the color unbalanced. 

As for contrast, again, moderation is important.  Most people seem to prefer a little "pop" in the correction.  By this, I understand them to mean a contrast bump (10-30%).  The trouble with this is that every monitor is different.  What may be a 10% contrast boost on your monitor, may end up looking like the page has a 30 or 40% boost on another monitor.  Still, there are those books that suffer from weak or faded colors, that will benefit from a bump in contrast.  How much to lighten pages, and knowing when to apply a bit more contrast, are both part of what I think of as the "trained eye" aspect of comics scan correction.  "Experience is a great teacher", and "all good things in moderation."  Two aphorisms to live by.

Addendum:
One more thought occurs to me now, a day later.  Just another pointer for the beginning scanner.  Aim for consistency.  Experiment on two or three different pages within a book, to find optimal correction settings, then use those same settings throughout the entire book.  Only make slight changes for an odd page that may be suffering from a special problem, such as overly light or dark ink compared to the rest of the book, or a splash panel that oxidized faster than the interior of the book.  Even then, altering settings should be resisted.  It's better to let the reader see such deficiencies, than to send him running repeatedly, to his viewer's correction settings.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 12:42:04 PM by Ramcrammer »
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octal

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2008, 08:30:51 AM »


... But some might not be to happy with the almost luminescent bright colours that can occur when the comic is whitened.


I'm one of those.

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...True not many scanners make that mistake,


I don't know, I've run across quite a few scans with unnaturally bright, fluorescent colors.   

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... but since we are only likely to get one scan of a golden age comic it would be nice to read it as it once was, or even as it is after all these years.


That sums it up nicely for me.

octal
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octal

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2008, 08:41:09 AM »

Good info Ramcrammer.  I've never scanned a comic but I can see where the art would come into it. Especially when some scanners (the hardware, not people) seem to add their own artifacts to the end result.

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who doesn't hang on to the garish stuff. I find myself wishing scanners who scan that way would also create an uncorrected scan for those of us who prefer something that looks closer to the real thing (at least to the extent that a digital representation can).

I wish I had something to scan, If I did I'd give it a try. I still cringe when I think about how I got rid of my collection years ago... ARRGH!!
« Last Edit: March 23, 2008, 08:49:13 AM by octal »
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narfstar

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2008, 12:34:26 PM »

I still have lots of books to "scan" which is why I take pictures.  Not the best method but the only way I would get so many done over Christmas break and it is easy on the books.  I hope to make a file of scanned covers to remove the flash glare and upload it this summer.
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Ramcrammer

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2008, 12:59:07 PM »


I still have lots of books to "scan" which is why I take pictures.  Not the best method but the only way I would get so many done over Christmas break and it is easy on the books.  I hope to make a file of scanned covers to remove the flash glare and upload it this summer.


Narfstar,

Why not find someone to help you do a nice scanning on these books?  Octal says he'd like to try scanning.  Maybe you can work out an arrangement with him.  I think most of us here on GAC would really love to see your stuff scanned.   Personally, I have always preferred quality over quantity.

Ram
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phabox

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2008, 03:46:04 PM »





Personally, I have always preferred quality over quantity.

Ram


I think that I would like to second that motion. :)

-Nigel
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Yoc

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2008, 07:59:03 PM »

I'd have to agree with Rammer and Phabox as well.
I'd rather see great quality over massive quantity. 
Reading say DM's Fawcett fiche scans that I unfortunately uploaded to GA-UK is nearly impossible.  They are so blurry and dark I had to give up on them.  I'm sure whomever did the actual scanning wasn't interested in working for months on scanning what looks to be hundreds of fiche and used a default setting for all of them that was sadly pretty horrible.  Scanning fiche isn't any fun that's for sure!  Even when taking great care and time you'll never get anything close to as nice as what scanning from an actual book would look like.  And the same goes for digital cameras.  I can understand the desire to avoid the time and possible danger of scanning a GA book but that's why I'd love to see more people doing scans of coverless or damaged books that aren't so valuable.  That way if it should be damaged there wouldn't be such a big loss.  And I highly recommend if possible to pull the staples out when scanning.  It makes life a LOT easier on the scanner and the book and the results are super.

Just my opinion of course.  I'm happy to see scans from anyone willing to do the thankless job.   :)
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narfstar

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2008, 08:35:42 PM »

Other than the covers, if you check my later pics you will find them to be very good quality with a free thumb scan thrown in  :P
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Aussie500

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 05:22:51 AM »

Please narfstar do not put thumb scans in, it is very annoying for every second page to be this puny unreadable thing.
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narfstar

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 01:55:26 PM »

Not thumb scan but scan of my thumb as I hold the book to take the picture  ::)
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Aussie500

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2008, 02:28:49 PM »

Sorry it was not you then, l will have to go find someone else fond of thumbnails, real thumbs do not count. Which reminds me some of your multi part scans were wondering around the unsorted section when last l looked without their appropriate names, l do not suppose you would be kind enough to leave a comment on what they are, please.  :)

Gold medal comics was one, pretty sure there was another though.
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cimmerian32

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2008, 06:33:07 PM »

For my part, I have always tried to restore the book to an original look...  sometimes I fail, sometimes I nail it, sometimes I exceed my own expectations...  all books are different, whether it's the amount or type of damage that the book went through in the years between publication and scanning, or simply the low level of publication value attached to it in printing, every book requires a slightly different touch, setting or tool...  My advice to anyone that is scanning their Golden Age books is to learn to use the clone stamp tool for actual damage, and the "selective color" options in image/adjustments/selective color in Photoshop.  Treat each book as a new beginning, and simply try to get it to look like it came off the newsstand yesterday.  If all of that seems beyond your abilities, or the book is simply beyond salvage, just release it with as clear and large a scan as you feel is necessary to make it at least readable.

The worst thing to do is to make a book too bright, or to watermark it.  If you feel the need to attach your name, please do so in a tagpage, not on the art itself... 

All of that aside (being MY preferences), it all comes down to pure scanner preference.  Do the book to where YOU are happy with it, and don't worry about what anyone else says.  If you try to please everyone else, but not yourself, you will grow tired of this hobby, and we will lose another contributor to this worthy endeavour.  My thanks go out to EVERYONE that takes the time and effort to put an old book through the scanner, and share it with the world.  I love you all!

Cimm
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Geo (R.I.P.)

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2008, 12:02:31 AM »

I want to thank everyone for all the info on scanning we use to have, (sorry the posts got lost from/during the crash. I saved bits and pieces of those posts and pasted all the good stuff together for safe keeping). It helped me immensely when I did some scans that I've uploaded here. We need all that info posted again for everyones benefit.

Here's some of Cimm comments from said thread:

"Here's what I do...

Scan at 300 dpi save using Windows Paint (this way you have more wiggle room when you edit the scans in Photoshop)
Edit in Photoshop
   -straighten using the measure tool
   -crop
   -Image/adjustments/brightness-contrast/+14 to brightness/+20 to contrast
   -image/adjustments/hue-saturation/+14 to saturation
   -image/adjustments/selective color/black - +100 to black
   -image size/dpi to 150, width to 1152 pixels
   -save at jpeg quality 8 (this gives you a per scan size of around 700 kb's

Hope that helps ya out!

Cimm"

I'll see if I can find some more of them from it.
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darwination

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2008, 01:57:24 AM »

I'd say I prefer a style more polished than raw scans but where you can still the grain of the paper and the patterns in the printing.  A scanned image does not look like a comic page.  There's the fact that the scanner never picks up all the black in an image and also the fact that a printed page relfects light while a monitor exudes it.  I try to make my scans look like a new book hopefully without going all Ted Turner on the golden age.  It's a tough tightrope to walk sometimes and certainly have scans where I've probably overstepped my bounds.  That said, we are translating these comics for the digital age and the art must be respected - if there are any physical defects or gross printing errors that detract from the art, I might interfere.  The line between preservation and restoration can be a blurry one.  I use only the clone stamp when repair physical damage to a book (versus using other art tools) in the belief that if you work with what's on the page you can't go tooo wrong.  I totally respect any scanners' own preferences though and am happy to see raw scans and even the white page style (tho I often prefer the former - a nice, big raw scan can be altered later but an scan with too much brighteness contrast saturation or level tampering can't really be reversed).

Honestly, I think there are a ton of great scanners who contribute to this site and I'm very impressed with the skills of many here.  The preservation of golden age comics should be top priority for comics scanners and this site has been the entry point for many people into the wonderful world of comic scans.

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Ramcrammer

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2008, 03:19:20 AM »

You speak eloquently, Darwination.  I agree strongly with the sentiment "we are translating these comics for the digital age and the art must be respected".  The art of the cartoonists, inkers, etc, must be preserved with dignity and fidelity. To do less is to do them a disservice.  If we want posterity to admire their work, we must do our best to present it as it was intended, free of garish color shifts and blurry images.  I feel this cannot be overstated.  I see much fine work being done, but there still seems to be plenty of room for improvement within our community.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how best to encourage better scans?  Perhaps a competition?   Seminar?   I dunno, there must be a workable idea. 

Ram
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cimmerian32

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2008, 03:14:08 PM »

Lead by example...  that's really all any of us can do...  Coercing, cajoling, denigrating, or vilifying others' work is counter-productive...  Do it to the best of your ability, try to learn from others whatever you can, and never stop seeking the means for improvement...

All a competition will prove is who is the best RIGHT NOW...  let your body of work speak for you...

Cimm
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narfstar

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2008, 01:20:39 AM »

I appreciate the acceptance of my digital cam books and book without ads.  I know that they are not what is prefered but I never would have bothered to take the time to scan Tom Cat or Pudgy Pig.  Not gems but would you have gotten to see them otherwise.  These are not frequently uploaded so I give ya something different.  I will try to scan the YJ feature at 300dpi in my Jack in the Box when I get the chance.  Again I have many more books than time and will probably be giving more digi cams but have been trying to do more scans.
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boox909

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2008, 01:29:50 AM »


I appreciate the acceptance of my digital cam books and book without ads.  I know that they are not what is prefered but I never would have bothered to take the time to scan Tom Cat or Pudgy Pig.  Not gems but would you have gotten to see them otherwise.  These are not frequently uploaded so I give ya something different.  I will try to scan the YJ feature at 300dpi in my Jack in the Box when I get the chance.  Again I have many more books than time and will probably be giving more digi cams but have been trying to do more scans.


You have contributed books that I serious doubt would have ever been seen. I would never downplay your digital cam "scans" and appreciate them more than I could ever display.

B.  :)
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Yoc

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Re: Scanning styles
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 04:59:07 AM »

Hi Narf,
While I'm sure everyone would rather have paper scans instead of fiche or digital camera scans often there isn't much choice on the matter.  And I can appreciate your not having the time to do a regular scan on all your books.  But I do believe some books perhaps deserve a proper scan (with or without the ads, that's your call) more than some others.  For instance Blazing Comics 02 is such an oddball and rare book I'd love to see that one done as a regular scan.  Well, the Green Turtle story anyways.  And the YellowJacket story from Jack in the Box - another perfect example of what I think is just unusual enough to deserve it as well.  Recently Phabox purchased YellowJacket Comics #10 on eBay so we've got another book to one day enjoy on the way.  I'd LOVE to have all of this characters stories together in perhaps another of those Archive type collections.
So thank-you for all your scans, camera and normal, you've always found the odd and unique to share and that's a big part of what makes these old GA books so much fun.

-Yoc
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