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Jack Kirby Discussion

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topic icon Author Topic: Jack Kirby Discussion  (Read 26154 times)

paw broon

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2010, 03:24:06 PM »

JVJ, it's taken me a while to get back to this and this post isn't to do with J.K. I'm never sure where to put things like this. You mentioned earlier Sergio Toppi and I was intrigued and am now following up leads on his work .  Impressive stuff - thank you.
Here's my tuppence worth now.  Many years ago I discovered Alvar Mayor and the amazing Enrique Breccia and I recently discovered the new Norma editions of the series.  As I lost my copies of Skorpio (it was that title,wasn't it? not Lanciostory?) a few years ago, it was so good to find these reprints.  Just wondered what your take on Alvar and Breccia was, and if you tell me you've met him as well, I'll have to come over there to sort you out.
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JVJ

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2010, 04:53:53 PM »

Maybe someone can split this thread off into one on Foreign Comic Artists:
Actually, Paw,
I'm much more familiar with Alberto Breccia (Mort Cinder, et al) than I am with his son, Enrique - neither of whom I've met. I feel like I have just dodged a bullet here...

I love Battaglia (who drew The Adventures of Cellini for Classics Illustrated in 1959), Palacios, Manara, Giraud, Crepax, Mordillo (GREAT new book on him last year), Maroto (met him at SuperCon in San Jose a couple of years ago and had lunch last fall in Paris with his daughter and her husband), Pratt (of course - never met him, but attended a lecture he gave in Paris in 1973), Hermann, Druillet (who I met just once in 1973), Arturo del Castillo (of whose work I can't get enough) and I have the very great luck to be a friend of Jean Claude Mezieres - for whom I cooked dinner at his flat in February.

I enjoy the works of Jacovitti, Tardi, Carlos Gimenez, GiGi, Forrest, Gillon, Poivet, Caza, Bilal, De La Fuente, Crepax. a host of Filipino artists (I've met Nino, Ernie Chan, DeZuniga, and even have a portrait of me done by Alfredo Alcala in the style of J.C. Leyendecker.

40 years ago, Bud Plant, Al Davoren and I published the second issue of Promethean Enterprises' exotic magazine/fanzine and Al wrote an article therein called, I think, "Erotic Fantasy in Comics". It was one of the first mentions in American fandom of the work of Maroto (Five for Infinity), Jungla (Saudelli - I think). Crepax and others, so I've been exploring that vein for a long time. I still pick up the odd issue of 1960s Pilote when I'm at the flea market in Paris when I find one with Frank Bellamy art.

As you may have ascertained, I am much more attuned to the artists of 30 years ago than I am to what's happened since them. Enrique Breccia is a good artist (he certainly doesn't need ME to confer that honor upon him), but he's not someone I've followed over the years. There are about 200 albums published each WEEK in France, and I have LONG SINCE given up trying to pay attention.

Some of my best friends in Paris are artists: Florence Cestac and JC Mezieres are both Grand Masters of Angouleme, and Francois San Millan did some albums over the years. I love to browse the old albums at BD Spirit in Paris, which is about 1
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profh0011

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #52 on: April 24, 2011, 04:42:40 PM »

Just posted this elsewhere... thought I'd share. Enjoy!


"MY 1ST KIRBY"



I might as well get the ball rolling...


My intro to Jack Kirby was-- of all things-- F.F. ANNUAL #3.  What a place to come in.  I'd seen 1 or 2 of the "Marvel Superheroes Show" cartoons (I recall part of an Iron Man episode), but it didn't make a dent somehow.  But when the 1967 F.F. cartoon debuted, I watched from the 1st week.  SPIDER-MAN debuted the same day (a half-hour later), but initially, it was the F.F. that grabbed me more. Looking back, that 1st episode-- "Menace of the Mole Man" (an adaptation of "Return of the Mole Man"-- I still can't figure why they skipped the 1st story) remains one of the show's best episodes.


About 2 months later, I was in my barber shop, reading F.F. ANNUAL #3. (It had obviously been sitting around for quite some time, as it came out 2 years earlier!) Of course, the attraction was, I knew the lead characters.  I also remembered seeing Iron Man, but all these others-- talk about overwhelming.  That book had 4 stories in it-- and I wasn't even halfway thru when it was time to go home.  My barber said, "Not done? That's okay. Take it home with you"  I long ago lost track of how many times I've read that issue.  Especially the first 2 stories.  Over the course of many years, I slowly was introduced to pretty much all of the multitude of characters in "Bedlam At The Baxter Building!" Re-reading all my 60's Marvels a few years back, the story stands as pretty much a "climax" or "grand finale" to the entire era of early-60's Marvel, a celebration of everything and everyone that had come along between 1961-65.


It was slightly jarring to see Reed & Sue get married-- as they were already married on the TV show. And the reprints in the back all took place when they were still just dating.


I still think one of the crowning moments of the story is when Daredevil takes on Hydra single-handedly. Oddly enough, it was only VERY recently I took a really close look at some of those panels, and realized that most of the men on that speeding truck were NOT Hydra agents, but were actually neo-Nazi stormtrooper types.  In other words, they were The Hate Monger's men! (Even though HE was long dead.) As revealed some months later in STRANGE TALES (if you read between the lines), it's clear Hydra was supplying The Hate Monger with his equipment. Since they're both Nazi outfits, that figures.


Anyway, pages and scenes go by, and we find ourselves at the waterfront, where ATTUMA (who I'd seen on the cartoon show) and his entire fleet rises from the water, ready to attack NYC. And, as described, in "the biggest coindcence of the year", the speeding truck driven by the BLIND guy (Daredevil) arrives just at that moment.  He crashes it off the edge of a dock, and while jumping from the cab, thinks to himself, it can explode "harmlessly" in the river.  I don't think Attuma and his entire undersea army felt that way. (heeheehee)


It cracks me up that one of the heroes with the least-impressive power levels winds up single-handedly saving the entire city.


In the back, clearly marked as a reprint, was not only a full-blown Dr. Doom story (he'd been on 3 episodes of the carton show), but my introduction to SUB-MARINER (who, due to bizarre circumstances of licensing, was NOT on the F.F. show-- GO FIGURE!!). I really didn't know what to make of this guy at first. He goes around wearing next to nothing (like TARZAN, who I had first seen only a couple months earlier in the form of Ron Ely), but was super-strong like SUPERMAN. But which side is he on? Over the course of one story, his allegiance changes, and his motives and attitudes seem fluid.


In retrospect, I tend to think "Captives of the Deadly Duo" MAY be the single BEST Sub-Mariner story in all of the 1960's. When they first brought him back, they deliberately stripped away many years of character growth, in order to return him to how he was when he first appeared. This is a BAD habit of far too many writers, especially Roy Thomas, who's just obsessed with the 1940's and "ORIGIN!!!" stories in general. But quickly, he developed past that. Unfortunately, after FF #6, he seemed to bounce back and forth depending on the vaguaries of individual stories. And then, when they gave him his own series again, it was like some IMPOSTER had taken his place.  Not only did his manner of speech mutate into something never seen before, but he also became absurdly muscle-bound.


The 2 stories reprinted in the back, both halves of FF #11, seem to get very little respect these days.  I think they're fun.  Part of "A Visit With The Fantastic Four" served as part of the inspiration for "The Way It Began", the cartoon that retold the origins of both the FF and Dr. Doom. It also featured the flying saucer from Planet X (another story adapted for TV) for added continuity. And "The Impossible Man" was just zany fun! I think too many younger fans (and this includes many who became pros) take their comics WAY too seriously.




Next?


Henry
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narfstar

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #53 on: April 24, 2011, 06:47:15 PM »

I was always more a story than art fan. I think my first notice of an artist called Kirby may have been the Cap reprints in Fantasy Masterpieces. They were touted as being by Jack Kirby.
I may have recognized his work before that on FF but after all these years it is hard to say. I do know I followed him to DC and bought the first issues of New gods, FP, MM and Kamandi.
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josemas

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #54 on: April 25, 2011, 02:34:21 PM »

Looking back on it I believe that the first comics that  ever picked up that had Jack Kirby art in them were probably X-Men #3 & Avengers #3 which I found on the spinner rack at the pharmacy around the corner at the same time.
 
I was all of five years old at the time and had been getting into Superheroes since discovering reruns of The Adventures of Superman on television the year before.

Someone (probably my grandmother) must have given me a quarter to go pick up the comics as I had no regular allowance at that age but did get the occasional comic book as a treat.

I do remember how fascinated I was with both those comics.  The X-Men in their first encounter with the Blob (a cool but at the same time repulsive villain).  The Avengers had Thor, Iron Man, Giant Man and the Wasp fighting both the Hulk and the Sub Mariner.  Wow!  So many neat heroes!  My young mind boggled!
I'm not sure if these were my first "team" comics but I did quickly come to favor the team comics over those featuring hero's solo adventures.

It was a few more years before I really began to take note of the names of the artists and writers on the comics I bought (about 1966 at the age of eight) and even then I still based my comic buying strictly on the character or story until I was about twelve years old (and had more disposable income via my paper route).  From age twelve on the presence of certain artists could (and did) influence my comic buying.

I still managed to read a fair amount of Kirby comics in the 1960s though.  We kids traded issues back and forth and you'd read comics when visiting with friends or relatives.  I remember, in particular, one kid down the block whose older brothers had a large number of Marvel Superhero titles from which I was able to catch up a lot on what I had missed buying on my own.

Best

Joe

 
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narfstar

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #55 on: April 26, 2011, 02:36:14 AM »

Kirby and Ditko were probably two of the first artist names I came to recognize. Probably followed by Carmine Infantino then Sterenko.
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ftrez

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #56 on: May 25, 2011, 11:58:13 AM »

Like many other readers, I didn't appreciate Kirby in my youth.  My first introduction to Kirby was in the mid-seventies and I just didn't find his style appealing.  With age and a better appreciation for the comics medium I now thoroughly enjoy the man's work.  The Titan hardcovers collecting the golden age work of Simon & Kirby are godsends.  About the only Kirby work I'm not overly familiar with at this point are the romance comics he and Simon did, though I look forward to the inevitable collection of that work.  It is hard for me to pick a favorite but I'm going to go with the following few:

Forever People (this was the part of the Fourth World that spoke to me)
Jimmy Olsen (yep, I said it...Jimmy F'in Olsen!)
Fantastic Four
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narfstar

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #57 on: May 25, 2011, 12:16:53 PM »

By the time Kirby got to Forever People I find those overly husky women distracting. I do not like the stick figure real world girls of today but I do not like his body builders either. When he went back to Marvel and after his work got worse. My biggest appreciation of Kirby is with Simon. There is a reason they were together so long they complimented each other so well. If you check Simon's own work before the teaming you see slimmer more agile figures not the later Kirby biggies. He may always have had the story telling ability but I do not like his later individual panels. You should be able to find some Kirby romance in the Prize section.
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Drusilla lives!

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2011, 04:58:33 PM »


Kirby and Ditko were probably two of the first artist names I came to recognize. Probably followed by Carmine Infantino then Sterenko.


For me it was Romita (Sr.) and Kirby, followed by Buscema (Big John)... and of course, Frazetta... and oddly enough Jack Davis.

I recall there was a breaking point with me back then in the late 70s where I just felt I had seen TOO much of Kirby... honestly, for a while there I really couldn't stand looking at some of his stuff... I mean really, Devil Dinosaur (??? yikes).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:10:25 PM by Drusilla lives! »
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bowers

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2011, 04:06:52 AM »

It was around the late '70s, when I became disappointed with most of the Marvel line. The stories seemed a bit repetitive with bad dialogue and the art, while good, had lost some of it's punch. DC was just as bad and I only bought them for the reprints. This was where I was introduced to Kirby's early work. I started rereading my old Golden Age pile which I hadn't touched in years. Imagine my surprise when I saw all the Kirby work I had read and forgotten. War stories, westerns, space, this man was unafraid to tackle anything. I came to have a lot of respect for this artist, even if I found a lot of his early work pretty primitive. Cheers, Bowers
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paw broon

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2011, 06:57:09 PM »

Still not sure about all this adulation and I feel I'm only repeating what went on above.  However, I've been canvassing opinions from a number of comics literate folk here and everyone I asked said that J.K. isn't their favourite artist and that a lot of his work, especially his later stuff from  New Gods on, isn't particularly good. Also, while the early work to which they had access was good comics, it wasn't quite at the top of anyone's list.  2 said that he was over-rated.  None of this is scientific and I didn't have a chance to ask any pros.  Me, I like Cap., both G.A. and early Marvel.
I just would rather read other artists work, given the choice.  I realise I could be in for a bit of a slagging here, but there it is.  Sorry JVJ.  I understand the history now but my preferences still lie elsewhere.
Important to add that, when I had the shop, many punters wanted and collected anything Kirby.  Perhaps showing their taste and my lack of it.  I'd still rather read a Bill Lacey drawn Blackshirt.  Off to find a crash helmet.
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narfstar

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #61 on: May 29, 2011, 01:36:46 PM »

No helmet needed Boox as you noted many agree. Kirby has his place in history but that does not make him perfect. His "last" works were not big sellers shows interest in buying anything Kirby had wained. I got to the point, where after his return to Marvel, I avoided his stuff. Kirby needed Simon. I hate Gil Kane's work at Marvel in the seventies. Kirby had everyone so "muscular/big" while Kane had everyone so angular. Neither appealed to me.
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paw broon

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #62 on: May 30, 2011, 12:13:20 PM »

Think I need a new avatar as Boox and a few others share this one.  I do get confused when I glance at entries and think,"don't remember writing that".
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CharlieRock

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2011, 03:03:00 AM »

I liked Kirby's later stuff, especially Mr. Miracle. But then again that was what I was picking up at the racks when I was a kid. That Kirby did stuff earlier was always a given for me, just not as interesting as his "new" stuff.

I mean, Darkseid was in the old Superfriends cartoon as the main bad guy for awhile.

I like other artists as well but when I was a kid Kirby was the stuff. And it'll always remind me of being a kid and reading comics.
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paw broon

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #64 on: June 25, 2012, 11:41:25 AM »

Surprising your not getting Lou Fine, he always seemed so exciting and flowing.  But given my views on Kirby I really don't expect a lot of you to pay much attention to my likes and dislikes. Also, I can only say that Jack Cole is simply excellent.
I've never been a fan of either J or S Buscema and as I've said before, gave up Spidey not long after Ditko left.
I don't know Clem Weisbecker's  work but I will look him up.
I just found this page of Finnish? covers of British pocket libraries and all by Ron Turner. pleas have a look it's lovely stuff.
http://users.tkk.fi/rauta/scifi/rr.html
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narfstar

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #65 on: June 25, 2012, 03:53:28 PM »

Some great pulp style covers. He could have done some great Space Family Robinson covers
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Roygbiv666

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Re: Jack Kirby Discussion
« Reply #66 on: June 25, 2012, 04:16:45 PM »

Context:I was born in 1969, buying comics mainly 1974-1984.

I was not a Kirby fan, although I do remember trying to draw like him one summer (mainly the tech stuff). In retrospect, it looks like I was more a fan of illustrative type of artists (Curt Swan, George Perez, John Byrne) rather than more cartoony ones (Kirby, Joe Staton, Steve Ditko).

I can certainly appreciate the raw expression of ideas (the hallmark of superhero comics IMO), but not a big fan of his actual figures, although certainly dynamic and worthy of swiping (for layouts).
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