[JVJ]

The real point, narf,
is that we do not have the right to post them without the permission of the publisher. Even if they are NOT copyrighted, it's still incumbent upon us to at least seek out the publisher. It's a moral thing more than a legal thing. To paraphrase what someone said a couple of years ago during the debate over the "Orphan Works" bill in Congress, "You may not know who published a particular fanzine that you found, but you CAN be certain that it wasn't YOU."

There seems to be a couple of generations of people growing up who feel that whatever they find is theirs. There seems to be no guilt involved in appropriating it for whatever use they choose. Forgive me if I have a problem with this. I'm from a different era with a different set of values.

Do you see the ads at the bottom of every GAC screen? A case can be made that things are being posted on GAC for monetary gain - not yours or mine, but somebody's. We have ways of checking on the PD status of comic books. Do we have the same safeguards with regards to fanzines? Is it possible to have them?

If you read the old articles in those 1960s 'zines, you will not find anything that is new or that hasn't been revised and rewritten and better documented in the following years. As for the strips, just because we want to see them isn't a sufficient reason. Find the people who put them out and ask them. More than likely MOST would be honored that anyone still cares, but it's still the right thing to do before posting scans.

my 2

[JVJ]

I seem to be in an especially cranky mood today. My apologies to anyone I may have grouched at. Things seem to be piling up on me today and I've been acting like a cantankerous old man. I'm sorry.

Peace? Jim (|:{>

[JonTheScanner]

Thanks for the early fanzine uploads, narf and jon!

Were you guys in fandom back in the early days when these fanzines were published?

When I get a roundtuit, maybe I can scan Star Studded Comics -- I think I have all but 1 issue.

And if anyone has the early Fantasy Illustrated fanzines, I'll LOVE to have scans of those! (I still have 3 or 4 issues.)

I have to confess to being that old yes.  If you look in K-a #20, that's me there in Personally #1 -- I was in school then and I've never learned to type any better, though a back-space key works a heck of a lot easier than correcting ditto.

Would love to see Star Studded or Fantasy Illustrated though those just may be copyrighted they always seem a bit more professional than the rest.

Some fanzines have a phrase like "illustrations copyrighted by their respective copyright holders."  I always took that to mean "Hey DC and Marvel don't sue us."  I suppose in some cases the illoes may be traced from comics in which case maybe they are copyrighted as stated -- otherwise I was never sure what that meant since the copyright holder of a drawing is the drawer.

[JonTheScanner]

The real point, narf,
is that we do not have the right to post them without the permission of the publisher. Even if they are NOT copyrighted, it's still incumbent upon us to at least seek out the publisher. It's a moral thing more than a legal thing. To paraphrase what someone said a couple of years ago during the debate over the "Orphan Works" bill in Congress, "You may not know who published a particular fanzine that you found, but you CAN be certain that it wasn't YOU."

Jim why do you feel there is more of a moral obligation to ask permission to share a never copyrighted fanzine than to ask permission to share a lapsed copyrighted comic?  I suspect in most cases, they'd say yes, but that's irrelevant.  I'm just curious.

[JVJ]

Jim why do you feel there is more of a moral obligation to ask permission to share a never copyrighted fanzine than to ask permission to share a lapsed copyrighted comic?  I suspect in most cases, they'd say yes, but that's irrelevant.  I'm just curious.

Actually, Jon,
I don't. I think it's just as wrong to scan the comics, but I've long since given up tilting at windmills.

That said, there is one real difference - the comic publishers were adults, supposedly professionals, and should have known better, while most of the fanzine publishers were kids and had little or no experience.

It's one thing to take advantage of stupidity and another to take advantage of ignorance.

C'est la vie. Folks will do what they want no matter what I have to say about it. With the fanzines, I had a chance to at least express my thoughts. With the comics, it was a done deal long before I joined the site and my opinion was neither solicited nor would it be welcomed.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[doccomix]

Thanks so much for uploading the old fanzines. I am particularly enjoying the run of Batmania, which bring me right back to the fan I was in 1965 (age 14), waiting with bated breath to see the new Batman TV show! I also got a chuckle when some of the 'zine writers would write glowingly about Bob Kane's ability to change styles over the years, not knowing he hadn't touched a page himself in decades! We were so innocent then...

[boox909]

Thanks so much for uploading the old fanzines. I am particularly enjoying the run of Batmania, which bring me right back to the fan I was in 1965 (age 14), waiting with bated breath to see the new Batman TV show! I also got a chuckle when some of the 'zine writers would write glowingly about Bob Kane's ability to change styles over the years, not knowing he hadn't touched a page himself in decades! We were so innocent then...

One reason I have been a fan of yours is because your style is infused with the excitement of fandom -- that is a special quality! 

B.

[Drusilla lives!]

You came to the same conclusion as I boox. When I tried to look up Drusilla lives! it said no user. When I looked up just dru it showed up with others. Drusilla lives! please pm Janus as you can not register with more than one name. So he will need to erase you and let you come back as Drusilla lives

Thanks for the info boox and narf... now I'm debating whether it's worth the hassle of changing user names.  I haven't downloaded any comics for quite awhile now and actually I'm not that interested in doing so... but I would like to keep in touch here on the message board (which is apparently uneffected by my having a "!" in my user name).  

Btw, I'm only registered as "Drusilla lives!" and I don't know who's registered as "dru" but it ain't me.   

[narfstar]

dru is just what I used to get the rest of your name as well as any others that started the same way come up just because

[bbmason]

Oops!  I guess I am too late to download those Batmania scans.  I hope they get reposted.  I still think it is worthwhile because the fanzines are fading and will be lost completely unless they are copied and stored somewhere.  Jerry's scans were particularly nice since he stored his copies in good condition and sent them to be scanned by an institution that wanted to archive them.  But what about other zines like Comic World, Superhero, Odd, Limbo and so many others that I see in my fanzine box.  What happens to all of those colorful Biljo White cartoons?  I think the original publishers of some of the zines would appreciate having restored copies in the archives somewhere.  Just my opinion but perhaps Jim and others can rethink this.  We have the GCD for recording the names of artist, writers, characters and stories but original stories and fanzines can be stored somewhere for scholars and comic fans to obtain easy access.  Someone said that these scans and reprints change collecting from a rich persons hobby to a fun passtime for anyone with computer access, e.g., students, military personnel, inmates and old men with fixed incomes.
bb

[JVJ]

Look, bb,
I am not the boss of anybody and I certainly don't make policy here or anywhere else except at bpib.com and jvjpubs.com. If someone wants to scan and post fanzines, there is no way I can stop them (except with regard to those I made). However, I still maintain that a site called Golden Age Comics devoted to PD material is not the proper place for those scans to reside.

And for the record, EVERYTHING I ever published or was involved with publishing (including Promethean Enterprises 1-5, Doug Wildey's The Movie Cowboy, Al Williamson: His Work, George I-X, Contretemps 1-33, Indispensable Indexes, ImageS, etc.) is copyrighted. I take great pride in those publications and you may think me callous and stingy, but I don't want them scanned and posted.

And, since I feel that way, I can't help but think that I may not be unique in those thoughts. I think
a. one should ask permission if possible before posting.
and
b. such scans should be posted in some other repository that GAC-UK.

my 2

[boox909]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqsW_noBIjQ


'nuff said. 

[JVJ]

I think I've just been called a blowhard...

(|:{)>

[boox909]

I think I've just been called a blowhard...

(|:{)>

I do no think that you are being a blowhard at all ... you are just stating your position so that no misunderstandings result -- always a wise course.

Jim have you checked out this blog:  http://chainlettersfordisturbedchildren.blogspot.com/

I like what it is doing with some of these old fanzines, breaking them down, showing them off; it really is one of the most interesting blogs I have run across in recent weeks.

B.

[Drusilla lives!]

That blog title ("Comic Book Fanzines: Chain letters for disturbed children.") reminds me... hey JVJ, did you ever finish Wertham's book on fanzines? 

[JVJ]

Yes, DL,
long ago. I think I've finished 15 or 20 others since then - I read a LOT.

Wertham was VERY positive about fanzines and the people who created them. It was not especially well written, as anyone who has tried to wade through Seduction of the Innocent will attest. And, like Seduction, he arrives at some conclusions without a clear logical thought process. Unlike Seduction, he seems to have no axe to grind and found much to be admired in the attitudes and accomplishments of fanzine editors and creators and contributors. Overall, he just thought that the concept of unfettered and uncensored communication was a very good thing.

It's another side of Wertham. My buddy Bob Napier got a couple of quotes in the text and both George and Promethean Enterprises get mentions.

Thanks for asking.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[Drusilla lives!]

Fifteen to twenty books!... I think it was only a month (or two) ago that you had mentioned starting that Wertham tome... that's amazing.

I think what holds me back is that I try to read too many at once (I start on another book before finishing the one I've gotten halfway through)... well that, and also that I still watch a fair amount of TV (not to mention web surfing).   Although that mostly applies to my efforts at "recreational" reading... I do a fair amount of technical reading as well (which I have fairly better success with).

I've been reading quite a few pulps lately... and I'm also currently reading through the entire Haunt of Fear run (EC Library volumes, not actual comics).  I've noticed that reading those comics while also mixing in some old pulps (The Shadow, Startling Stories, Western Story, etc...) really compliments them and puts them into historical perspective nicely for some reason (at least for me anyway).

[elfwreck]

Most fanzines were not copyrighted so are public domain.

Fanzines before 1988 without a proper copyright notification are in the public domain. Those with a proper copyright notice are copyrighted, either for 95 years or Life+70.
(Fanzines before 1963 that weren't re-registered are in the public domain. I wouldn't expect a lot of those to exist.)

Fanzines 1989+ are in "Life+70;" no notification is necessary.

From: Copyright Term and the Public Domain in the United States