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Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2  (Read 1468 times)

K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2023, 03:15:32 PM »

Thanks to all for your good wishes. Panther it's a tablet, and Morgus, could I EAT any more cheese? This one could take some time, but at least have good company here on CB+.

All the best
K1ngcat
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2023, 12:07:18 AM »


I meant the first time a comic book character was labelled "cyborg." Oxford Reference says that Manfred Clynes coined the word in 1960. Ken Fitch seems to have been the first comics writer to have read that Life article and stick one of the critters in a comic book.

Ah!

Yes, he probably is the first to be called a cyborg in a comic.
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Raymond Towers

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2023, 12:38:14 AM »

The Flying Saucers

Flying Saucer story – The writer of this story did not do a good job, in my opinion. He had 23 pages to work with and the best he could do was hand us a weak lesson on the contemporary boogeyman of nuclear warfare. I get that part, and maybe this story was ahead of its time back then, but there could have been a lot more to this story, such as 3 separate story arcs in increasing drama / tension, with 7 pages each, instead of the filler we saw such as when the protagonist tried to convince Big Gov of flying saucers, and when the mob guys kidnapped him. Most Conan comics can do a lot more with 23 pages, and we’re talking about a barbarian there. This story could have fit in 10 pages or less. It had way too much dialogue with no payoff.
My versions:
1. The aliens set off all the nukes and humans learn a hard lesson.
2. The aliens publicly remove the nukes and encourage / force humans to live without them, using Japan as a prime example of what could happen.
3. Eliminate half the dialogue and pages.

Ghost story – Somebody earlier called it lame. Ditto.

Tiger story – I haven’t read too much horror from this era, so I don’t think I’m qualified enough to give a good comment yet. Maybe this style of punishing the criminal is just desserts?
My versions:
1. Cattler was brutal with the tiger, teaching it to devour instead of pretending to. He pushes the tiger too far in front of Doc Manton, and the tiger turns on Cattler. Manton gets away and that’s the end.
2. Hmm, the part about the stuffed tiger on the lawn throws me off. I might have the tiger go Poe here, inside the house, scaring the heck out of Manton because the tiger seems to change position every time he looks at it. There is no real tiger, only the stuffed one, and it comes to life at night and kills Cattler after he’s locked Manton in a room for refusing to renew the policy. Manton manages to escape the room, finding Cattler apparently dead of fright without a mark on him, and maybe the policy is in the stuffed tiger’s mouth, or under its paw. Manton is left wondering about the how and why, and so is the reader.

Space Man 2

This story is much more my speed. It has cyborgs, robots, giants and Atlantis in around 30 pages, not counting the cover and filler. The pacing is excellent and leads in smoothly to the next story arc, the goal post keeps moving and the protagonists have to adapt to that, and the love interest and sidekick add good commentary in their dialogue. As for the art: nice curves!
I don’t have anything negative to say. This story beats the Rex Dexter and Doc Strong compilations I’ve read, partly because it had more pages to work with, compared to the 10 or so pages per story for the compilations. I’m excited to look this title up and see if there are other stories with as much detail packed into them as this one. As a writer, I’m thinking, this story had so much in it that I would not know what I could put into a sequel! Great story. Big thumbs up!
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2023, 07:12:16 AM »

Raymond, good to read your thoughts. Well-thought out observations. Nice to have a writer's perspective.

Quote
the best he could do was hand us a weak lesson on the contemporary boogeyman of nuclear warfare. I get that part, and maybe this story was ahead of its time back then, but there could have been a lot more to this story 

Perhaps for a comic book, but Science Fiction literature was already there.
But, yes, as is the case today, Comic books went with the zeitgeist of the day. 
Quote
  Zeitgeist is a word that comes straight from German — zeit means "time" and geist means spirit, and the "spirit of the time" is what's going on culturally, religiously, or intellectually during a certain period. Think about how something like Woodstock symbolized the 1960s: Woodstock was part of the Zeitgeist of the 1960s. Whatever seems particular to or symbolic of a certain time is likely part of its Zeitgeist. 

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/Zeitgeist
If you want an audience to read your material, you need to relate your story, (negative or positive comment) , to the NOW!   
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2023, 05:10:29 PM »

Not a lot to do with the comics but.................  cyborgs are not robots and as SuperScrounge notes, Robotman was much more a cyborg than a robot.  There was a Spanish title, Rock Robot, around 1957, comprising 32 issues but I've never figured out if he/it was a robot, cyborg or just a bloke in a costume.  I need to go and read them now:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=3565
But cyborgs on tv?  Was the first time 1966 in Doctor Who, The Tenth Planet?  Long before the Borg.
British weeklies featured a few stories with robots but no cyborgs as far as I can recall, although there was a predecessor to Iron Man with The Flaming Avenger:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=58233
Excuse the digression.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2023, 09:41:11 AM »

To begin with, the gap between these two books is well-illustrated by the covers.
Flying Saucers shows us a pure fantasy landscape and pure fantasy aliens leaping out of (A spaceship?) sans spacesuits or parachutes or even jet backpacks.
Space Man shows us men in realistic Spacesuits, complete with oxygen tanks and tethered to the spaceships.
Flying Saucers
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=18917 
Nice cover by Gene Fawcette.
If you were expecting Science Fiction you would be disappointed, the first few pages are word heavy and basically a jungle adventure.
The back story of the 'Aliens' puts me in mind of the 'Universe' Jack Kirby created for TOPPS comics.
Unfortunately the story is not visual and although it's good to see Wally Wood's early work, he is not able to cut loose and show what he can do. 
A morality tale arising out of fear of the 'A-bomb'
The Eyes of the Tiger - not much to say about this one. 
Space Man 2
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=33180 
Yes, the coloring is very good.
Unusually for a Dell comic, this is a continued story.
So what's going on has to be deduced.
From a 21st century perspective, the "revolutionary  free peoples republic'  just sounds corny. Also, why depict the villain(s) as seriously ugly and untidy-looking?
To my surprise, I like this book better than FLYING SAUCERS. Sparling's work here is much more dynamic. That's the gift of the writer, who didn't overburden him with dialogue.
Co-incidentally both stories deal with 'Aliens' who originated from earth's past.
A good read.   

[The word "cyborg" was coined in 1960 by neurophysiologist and engineer Manfred Clynes, although cyborg-like creatures have appeared in science fiction since the 1920s, according to Oxford Reference. The meaning of cyborg is broad and variable depending on the source. ]
https://www.livescience.com/first-human-cyborg

So, the writer was aware of it, only 2 years later! Impressive! 

cheers!   
 
 
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2023, 10:18:18 AM »

Avon's "Flying Saucers (No#)"
Having only flipped through this book, but never read the stories, I'm hoping there will be a reasonable amount of logic to the "science" based on what the average high school student knew about The Universe and World in 1949.  Some science fiction comic books from the 1950s met that standard, but some didn't, as often, the stories were not well thought out due to low pay and heavy deadlines. 

All in all, this book had good art and decently entertaining stories (despite that they could have been made significantly better, in my opinion).

This book had a very interesting front cover, which made me want to open it and give a look at the artwork, and start reading a story (despite the the winged ends of the Space Aliens' upper limbs, which don't look aerodynamic, in the slightest, and only appeared to make it harder for them to hold objects, or perform manipulative tasks.  The artwork on the cover, by Gene Fawcette, is good (although I prefer the complete drawing as printed on the cover of the original, 1950 issue.  And that of the first story, by Wally Wood is quite good, as well, although I don't like the seemingly random colouring.  The clue that the Aliens may be masquerading as benefactors of Mankind, is interesting. 

(1) Spawn Of Terror - Part One
The placename, Quhaltec sounds like a Nahuatl (Aztec) word. It needs a vowel after the letter "u".   Why would a mountain in South America have a native North American name?  (Not very good research).  Why don't the natives of that tropical South American rainforest have dark skin, like the natives of those areas?  And why do some shave their heads.  I doubt that they would like that tropical sun beating down on their heads when they didn't have shade.  Why does a wizened ancient Shaman have jet-black hair?  Shouldn't it be white, or, at least gray?  From the look of the 7th (final) panel of Page 3, it appears that the protagonist (Ross Lanning) has been tossed AT LEAST 30 feet downward to that point (possibly mid-point of his fall), but also much farther, horizontally, out into the crater (did they shoot him out of a cannon?.  I would guess he would, at least have many bones broken upon his landing, if he'd somehow survive it, by avoiding having an impact to his head.  The author tells us that the "crater" is conical, narrowing to a tiny "head of a cone", and that is why he miraculously remained unhurt.  But, I rather think that the landing of such a long fall would have a hard impact on one or the other sides of a crater with such a large opening, above.  And he probably would have bounced a few times.  I'm certain he'd have been rendered unconscious, and died.  But the second panel after he's shown as landed, he is already RUNNING, and has neither scratches on his skin, nor dirt on his clothing. 

Aside from the lack of research, and not-well-thought-out logic errors, the basic idea of Space Aliens having come to Earth, and are hidden beneath the ground, and his finding them by chance, only because he was tossed into a crater near their hiding place's opening, is basically a good one.  The author uses the scenario that Ross thinks he is dreaming because this experience is too unbelievable, to make it seem reasonable that he could make the fateful, potentially dangerous decision to revive one of the Aliens.  Of course, the agitated Human holds his weapon on an Alien, threatening to harm him, and tries to warn them, through speaking English to them, as if they could understand his foreign language (perhaps by telepathy?).  This episode ends with the Aliens flying away in their spaceships, and Ross trying to escape the cavern, to warn Humanity about them.  Good suspense.  I am intrigued to read on.

(2) First Contact - Part Two
After walking from the jungles of Eastern Peru, across The Andes Mountains, and reaching Peru's coast, Ross slowly recovers from his jungle fever.  Upon returning to USA, no one believes his story, thinking him a madman.  But The US military leaders see that his description of the space ships (saucers) is, by far, the most detailed, and so, want to talk with him.  But a foreign espionage ring,operating in New York also wants his information, and kidnap him to their headquarters to force him to reveal what he knows.  Just as they start to torture him to make him talk, The Aliens arrive, and rescue him.  Another great suspense-point cliff-hanger, to carry the reader to the next Episode.

(3) Final Objective - Part Three
In this episode, the aliens reveal their history of evolving on Earth and saving themselves from destruction by atomic bombs for future intelligent beings to revive.  The Aliens give Lanning "damper rays" to stop atomic bombs from activating. One man to plant enough of them to prevent Earth's destruction.  But they had 12 men to do that millions of years ago.  Why didn't they do that back then to avoid the destruction of their own civilisation?  The Aliens leave to start over in another galaxy, and Lanning is to explain the situation to US scientists and government officials, and give them the scientific documentation and machines left in the crater hideout, they can use to improve Humankind's future.  The idea for the story is basically a good one, but it has some logic errors.  It was entertaining and certainly worth reading.  The artwork is very good. But the colouring is not to my taste.

(4) Goofy Ghost - 2-Page Gag
This is a nice bit of comedy relief from the heavy mood built up by The Sci-Fi "Flying Saucers" story.  The artwork is good, and the brightly-hued, random colourisation isn't a problem, due to its comedy theme.  But, as I stated in the last Sci-Fi book review, - this ghost story would work better in a Horror comic book, and used a short comedy Sci-Fi filler with comedic scientists or inventors.

(5) The Eyes Of The Tiger
This is the classic horror story about the crazy man trying to "fool mother nature" by changing the character of an animal, and it backfiring on him. In the end, the Human finds that a wild animal's "wildness" and its nature can't be changed.  i assume that the crooked cat lover got his just desserts for trying to change the nature of a deadly meat-eating best, using his pet animals to intimidate other humans, and trying to force the insurance agent to sell him a policy when he knew he would die soon.  He got his just desserts by dying of a heart attack from thinking he killed his pet tiger, and running into his stuffed tiger in the dark of night, thinking it was the ghost of his tiger, popping up everywhere, to haunt him.Wood gave his art in this story a bizarre look, adding to the haunting mood. 

« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 12:28:14 AM by Robb_K »
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2023, 08:41:00 AM »


(5) The Eyes Of The Tiger
Wood gave his art in this story a bizarre look, adding to the haunting mood.

Bob Fujitani, actually. I had to check the original publication info at the GCD, but that has the info that Fujitani confirmed that he did it.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2023, 08:52:06 AM »

"Space Man 1" (Four Color Comics # 1253)
Nice front cover art, with an intriguing text blurb, mentioning that "Man has broken his ties with Earth, and is about to conquer space."  That makes me think that the surface of The Earth has been effectively destroyed (rendered unlivable for all complicated life forms, and Humans MUST find another planet that contains life to allow their species to continue to survive in the future. I don't remember seeing either Four Color Comics' "Space Man", or "Space Man 2" on the newsstand, grocery or drug store shelves in late 1961 and early 1962, in either Winnipeg or Chicago.  Of course, many of the Four Color series were rare, because they had no record or very short records of sales, and so, often had little to convince potential vendors that they would sell well compared to current popular titles.  Unlike the less realistic "Flying Saucer" series, whose front covers had weird-looking Space Aliens in dramatic scenes on them, "Space Man" looked too realistic, tame, and "educational" (like a magazine they might have read in a junior high school science class).

(1) Glossary Page - Valuable source of information to help understand the stories.

(2) Space Man - Introduction and First Episode
It's interesting that this is a very educational comic book, fighting for the entertainment Dollar, but still providing real information to the reader about how The US Space Program was operating in 1961, and touched on the most important basic science related to those operations.  I've always been interested in learning about science, and would have enjoyed reading this book (although, being in high school at this time, my chemistry and physics classes covered a lot of this content).  I think it was an interesting idea to make people think that Col. Hooper had died in a Space mission accident, to keep his project secret.  And using the "cyborgs" is intriguing.  But, these "cyborgs" don't seem to follow that term's definition as I learned it (mixed biological and non-biological, partially robotic beings).  They seem to be fully Human beings inside skin-tight Space suits, who have undergone operations which changed their bodies' abilities to meet the different conditions of Space. 
This story, spanning both this book and "Space Man 2", has a good, interesting and potentially entertaining plot,
based on Col. Hooper's American team, based on Earth's Moon, joining a special intra-galactical police force, who aims to ensure peace among and between the various populated planets in The Milky Way Galaxy. The Colonel explains to his 2 new recruits how their spaceships and weapons work.  They can travel beyond the speed of light.  As far as I know, currently, scientists think that is physically impossible.  The 12 ships of The Earthmen battle robots sent by a rogue empire on a planet in the Alpha-Centauri Galaxy.  They destroy many of the aggressors' spaceships and robots.  The protagonist and his junior "sidekick" will train on The moon, to help fight the next attack by Alpha-Centauri's rogue robots, helping to relieve The Martian and Jupiterian forces.

(3) Maybes About The Moon - (Fantasy Suppositions Page)
Fantastic suppositions known by scientists in 1961 to almost surely be impossible.  A cheap way to bring in something to attract the fantasy fan who cares more about imagining fantastic alien creatures than learning about how The universe works.

(4) The Heavenly Wanderers - Astronomical Information Page
« Last Edit: November 13, 2023, 09:06:33 AM by Robb_K »
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2023, 08:54:21 AM »



(5) The Eyes Of The Tiger
Wood gave his art in this story a bizarre look, adding to the haunting mood.

Bob Fujitani, actually. I had to check the original publication info at the GCD, but that has the info that Fujitani confirmed that he did it.


Thanks for that information. It certainly looked like it was from another hand than the other two major stories in this book.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #309 - Flying Saucer No# & SpaceMan 2
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2023, 09:39:24 AM »

Space Man 2
(1) Its front cover has decent artwork and interesting staging of its scene.  It certainly looks realistic.  Its text blurb suggests to the reader that this book contains an episode of a continuing story that started in a previous issue of this series.  The subject matter of that story is kept mysterious mentioning only that an insidious menace from another galaxy is involved -  which is enough to invite the action/combat/war genre fans to take a look inside.

(2) Bouncing Beams - Scientific Information Page
This is an informative page about the basics of how radio and telephone sound signal beams are sent and received.

(3) Space Man
This story continues where Four Color Comic 1253 left off, with the two heroes back in Space, training for their eventual jobs in The Earth's contingent in their galaxy's peace keeping force.  A general of "The Great Revolutionary People's Republic" (clearly meant to be China) has captured the protagonist's fiancee, as as hostage to allow him to come through where a force field barrier would have been, to reach The Americans' Moon Base. I find it interesting that despite the intimation that he is Chinese or Mongolian (based on the nation's official name and his looks) the villain is named "Smith" (perhaps to avoid a complaint from The People's Republic of China's Embassy?

The large human-looking Aliens who are recruiting The Earthmen for their Galactic Guard, are an ancient Earth species, who may be the source of the many legends among different peoples around The Globe about giants.  They MAY be The Martians, who make up a substantial chunk of the current Galactic Guard.  The protagonists take a scouting trip towards Alpha Centauri to gather information about The (rogues) Garrak-Axos activities, as they are rumoured to have entire galaxies and even a "Universe" held captive by the threats of their Robots destructive actions, and their far reach of their spaceships travelling at speeds above the speed of light. We also find out that travel at those speeds does NOT age the travelers at a higher rate (as our current scientists believe).  The distressed  people of the far-away planet, who warned The galactic Guard of the atrocities and aggression of Garrak-Axos, are humanlike giants, who were The Atlantians(Titanians) of Earth's history.  Their emigration from Earth occurred when The Sun "broke", and most of Earth's population died off.  There are a lot of historical flashbacks, a lot of people standing around and talking, and a lot of setting information panels, leaving much less room for displaying action scenes in this book-long story.  Also, there are tonnes of scientific and pseudo-scientific "facts" to learn to understand the story, and lots of different characters and scenarios to remember, that makes it a bit difficult to understand what is going on to follow the story plot in an enjoyable story flow and pace.  That cut the entertainment value of reading the story.  So, reading the "Space Man 1"-"Space Man 2" Saga first requires a preliminary reading for background and educational purposes, and then reading both books again, at a more enjoyable pace, so the reader can "live in the story", like one usually does watching a film, or reading a relatively uncomplicated novel.

(4) Glossary Illustrated - Informaton (definitions) Page
These explain what The Cyborgs are, how "Braking"- slowing down from super-light speeds, what The Galactic Guard is.  So this page is an information resource, best to read BOTH before, and after, reading the story.

(5) The Modern Space Age - Information Page
Provides additional real-World scientific information, which applies to the story.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2023, 02:23:24 AM by Robb_K »
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