[JVJ]

Having just mailed a box of comics to OtherEric and included some art notes, I think it's important that people realize what all the dots and stars and pencil marks mean. These cards are working notes that have been compiled over a period of 35 years by me and Hames Ware. They are by NO MEANS to be taken as gospel truth - we've learned an awful LOT over that span and some of the notes have not been updated in decades. Plus, the cards range from neat and clear to rushed and cryptic. Please take them for what they are - the state of the knowledge of two people over a span of time. And here's how to interpret the symbols we use:

1. an * indicates a signed story (could be initialed or just first or last name)

2. an n (a small n by the name) indicates that name was sneaked somewhere in the story

3. no notation, just a name in ink, means that we have no doubts that that is who drew the story. YOU may have some, and that's perfectly okay, but we feel confident that we have identified the artist. Since WE knew who we were talking about, sometimes only a last name is used. I'd suggest the Who's Who for further info or just ask me and I'll try to respond.

4. a

[Yoc]

Thanks Jim!
And I hope Narfstar will have time to add this new information to the GCD one day when he's got the time.

--

Hey everyone, we've all be enjoying the scans made from Jim's collection to the site.  Jon and Geo have scanned dozens of books so far with potentially hundreds more down coming down the road.  But Jim could seriously use some help with covering his postage costs to send these never before scanned diamonds out to various members for digitizing.  So far he's down $50 out of his own pocket and Jim's retired on a fixed income.

I'm hoping that GAC members with kind hearts will be willing to contribute towards Jim's overhead so we can continue with this thrilling project!  Come on people, lets get off our wallets.  We've all been getting hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours of free entertainment on the backs of comic buyers and scanners for FREE!  It's time to pay a little bit towards this vital endeavour.  This might be our only chance to scan many of these Public Domain books.  Let's not let postage stand between saving them for all time and perhaps losing them forever!

Stay tuned, I hope someone will have more information on how to contribute towards Jim's postage costs.

-Yoc

[DOC]

Having just mailed a box of comics to OtherEric and included some art notes, I think it's important that people realize what all the dots and stars and pencil marks mean. These cards are working notes that have been compiled over a period of 35 years by me and Hames Ware. They are by NO MEANS to be taken as gospel truth - we've learned an awful LOT over that span and some of the notes have not been updated in decades. Plus, the cards range from neat and clear to rushed and cryptic. Please take them for what they are - the state of the knowledge of two people over a span of time. And here's how to interpret the symbols we use:

1. an * indicates a signed story (could be initialed or just first or last name)

2. an n (a small n by the name) indicates that name was sneaked somewhere in the story

3. no notation, just a name in ink, means that we have no doubts that that is who drew the story. YOU may have some, and that's perfectly okay, but we feel confident that we have identified the artist. Since WE knew who we were talking about, sometimes only a last name is used. I'd suggest the Who's Who for further info or just ask me and I'll try to respond.

4. a

[JVJ]

I've still got all of the "data slips" I submitted to Jerry for the WW, and all of my notes taken from Jerry's microfilms, in addition to all of the data cards that Hames and I have done. I have NO idea what will eventually happen to them. I still use the cards, so I'm not likely to let loose of them until I either die or can't think anymore. Plus I have no idea who would want them. Same with my comics. They should go somewhere - and I have no children to will them to. I'm actively looking for an eventual home for them. Any thoughts?

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[Yoc]

Wow, I've heard these kind of conversations on some other boards Jim.
Whatever you decide please be sure your family knows and understands your wishes.
Given how close you are to Hames or Bud please be sure they know your intentions as well.
It's not a pleasant subject but the last thing a collector wants is for their babies to be tossed in the dump or something.  Not that I'm saying that would happen here but speaking in general.

I know a few collections have been donated to University collections, etc.  My only regret then be we couldn't get them scanned for posterity.  Once they are in the library it's practically like being in the vault of Scrooge McDuck.

-Yoc

[DOC]

I would love to have you talk about your work and interaction with Jerry. I am actually the one who funds the WW website as a trib to Jerry and Jean. I would be more than happy to keep any materials you used for the WW as i am hoping someday to have a museum of sorts as my older son will take over IF when I myself am too addle to think.

[John C]

Yeah, I don't see it as my business, per se, nor am I experienced in dealing with estates, but I agree that a library-type scenario might be good.  I've mentioned them both elsewhere, but both the Prelinger Archives and the Internet Archive might be good people to talk to.  Prelinger keeps a physical collection and has a strong interest in digital preservation.  The Internet Archive loves digital material and has accreditation as a library.

They might not be the proper destinations, but they would seem to have special knowledge of how to manage collections of material that "wants" to be made available, at least.

[JVJ]

Wow, I've heard these kind of conversations on some other boards Jim.
Whatever you decide please be sure your family knows and understands your wishes.
Given how close you are to Hames or Bud please be sure they know your intentions as well.
It's not a pleasant subject but the last thing a collector wants is for their babies to be tossed in the dump or something.  Not that I'm saying that would happen here but speaking in general.

I know a few collections have been donated to University collections, etc.  My only regret then be we couldn't get them scanned for posterity.  Once they are in the library it's practically like being in the vault of Scrooge McDuck.

-Yoc

Actually, Yoc,
I have a will and a trust and what amount to "short range" plans should I die unexpectedly. Nothing will be discarded, but I would really like to have some final destination for the comics that would make them accessible to researchers - and it makes sense to send the cards there, as well. I DON'T want them in a "vault." So, thanks for the advice, but I DO have the instructions in place in writing to keep everything together. It's just that I'd really LIKE to arrange for the comics to end up somewhere where they'll still be available just as readily as I've made them.

Probably a vain hope, but it's what I'd like.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[JVJ]

Yeah, I don't see it as my business, per se, nor am I experienced in dealing with estates, but I agree that a library-type scenario might be good.  I've mentioned them both elsewhere, but both the Prelinger Archives and the Internet Archive might be good people to talk to.  Prelinger keeps a physical collection and has a strong interest in digital preservation.  The Internet Archive loves digital material and has accreditation as a library.

They might not be the proper destinations, but they would seem to have special knowledge of how to manage collections of material that "wants" to be made available, at least.

I'll follow up on that, jc. I collected these books for the joy of the comics and for the information they contain. I really don't want to lose that feature of the collection. The biggest problem with comic books is their value and I fear that any final destination will be faced with an insurmountable task of dealing with theft and such. Still, technology might soon make things trackable without big (obvious) security devices and that might make open access feasible. Thanks for the leads.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[JVJ]

I would love to have you talk about your work and interaction with Jerry. I am actually the one who funds the WW website as a trib to Jerry and Jean. I would be more than happy to keep any materials you used for the WW as i am hoping someday to have a museum of sorts as my older son will take over IF when I myself am too addle to think.

It's great to know that someone is keeping Jerry's work alive, Doc. Is there ANY way to update the information? It seems sad to think that everything is "frozen" at the state it was in when Jerry died. I'd be happy (and very honored) to be part of any vetting committee you might assemble for adding or correcting the existing information. I cringe when I realize how attuned to facts Jerry was and how unsettled he'd be if he knew his site was perpetuating misinformation.

And send me an email with your address and I'll happily send you all of the data slips that I filled out for Jerry - there must be thousands of them. It'll give you some idea of the approach we "helpers" used to input new info. There must have been dozens (if not hundreds) of us and, since Jerry always returned the slips, it would take a miracle to reassemble them all. Still, you're more than welcome to mine.

Peace, Jim |:{>

[rez]

I've often thought that a microdot placement somewhere within a book with whatever data necessary would help the security aspect of collecting.

Having heard various reports of counterfeit fraud within the collectibles market as sport ballcards and the like it enters into my thinking with the advance of technology being what it is how much fraud may have already entered into comicdom.

When a Spidey poster from the 60s will bring a grand on ebay what might it take a counterfeiter to approach making midrange copies of expensive key issues that might have serious investigation pass them by.
A friend recently bought a small drawing right from Frazetta's studio and relayed to me he had learned of the large number of people contacting the studio who had bought what they thought were great deals on ebay in the purchase of Frazetta works that in the end discovered weren't his works at all.

It's a wild world out there.

[narfstar]

I have found some signed works by authors for companies that are not credited on whose who. It would be nice if it could be updated. I gave Jerry some info before his death not sure that all of it got updated even.

[Yoc]

Hi Jim,
I really love how devoted you are to the hobby and the idea that comics are to be Shared and READ!
  *shock, gasp*.  
Today's 'collectors' and their plastic tombs frankly make me sick!  (apologies to any such collectors here but I can't hide that fact).  The GAC mandate to scan and SHARE these wonderful treasures before they all crumble to dust or are entombed and my small contribution to the mission is something that makes my chest puff up with pride.  A sin sometimes but I'm darn PROUD to be here and know the good people like yourself and all of our members. 

To all Scanners, donors and editors as well as readers and believers in the small but truly gracious act of sharing PD scans without asking for anything but they always be shared with others for free... please give yourselves a well deserved pat on the back from me and all the others to be found in the hobby and especially here on GAC.
BRAVO!   

-Yoc

[rez]

Here here Yoc.
A year ago I'm wondering if there might be a site on the web somewhere that had scans of comics. Seemed plausible that there should be something. Took my 14 yearold nephew to tell me 'sure'.

I'm glad to be able to shoot my little peashooter and assist the work in some fashion albeit small.

Still would like to know a rough estimate of the number of pre '60 comics that were published.



Taking a place, another brick in the wall.

[bminor]

 
I agree whole heatedly on your views concerning the slabbing of comic books!!!!
They are meant to be read and enjoyed. I can understand someone taking a stamp or baseball card and encasing it in a protective case never to be touched again. In it's little plastic tomb you can still look at it in its' entirety.
But, for heavens sake, a comic book has to be read to be enjoyed.
I can understand some people do so to protect their investment, because they are into it for the investment.
Nothing I like better to do than to grab a few, sit down and read them from cover to cover. I enjoy reading all the house ads for books that were coming out that month. Looking at the advertising of the day.
There is also something about the smell of ink on newsprint, something I don't get from the high end glossy reprints of old books. Maybe it just reminds me of when I was young. Walking home from the drugstore with a few new comics, the sun on my back on a warm summer day, reading the next thrilling installment of my favorite heroes.
Today, my children have access to a lot of my books. I like to think that I am giving them access to what I was able to enjoy as a young man.

[DOC]

Comics..are..for..reading? My gosh, next you'll say you play with your action figures and take them out of the box!!!!
I gave up investing on comics long ago, I just read and enjoy them now.
I'm really glad Chris lead me to this site.

[JVJ]

Here's a funny story about slabbing:
In 2005 I attended the San Diego Convention. Ray Kinstler was a guest of honor and I'd just published a book on him. He was nearly 80 years old and was completely unfamiliar with fandom and conventions, so I volunteered to shepherd him through his first experience.

At one point we were sitting at his table in Artists' Alley and Ray was cheerfully signing books and talking to people. One young man (perhaps 20-25 years old - I'm a lousy judge of the ages of people) handed Ray three SLABBED comics and asked him to sign them. Ray, who had never encountered a slab, looked at two of them and said "I didn't draw those (covers)." No, the young man said, you drew stories INSIDE.

Ray sat there stunned and looked at me perplexed and pleadingly. I shrugged my shoulders, handed him a silver pen and told him to simply sign the slab. That seemed to be satisfy the young man who shook Ray's hand and went a way smiling with a piece of plastic signed in an ink that would easily rub off within a month or so.

What WAS the point?

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[OtherEric]

I remember people looking surprised when I told them I spent nearly $300 on a comic book; they wondered if I had put it in a safe deposit box or something.  My reaction was "Hell no!  Why on earth would I spend that much money on a book and then not READ it?!?"  (Not that I often spend that much money on comics; I can count the comics I've spend over $100 on on my fingers and have some left over.  Don't ask me how much my collection of Oz hardcover averaged per book, though...)

[John C]

I collected these books for the joy of the comics and for the information they contain. I really don't want to lose that feature of the collection. The biggest problem with comic books is their value and I fear that any final destination will be faced with an insurmountable task of dealing with theft and such. Still, technology might soon make things trackable without big (obvious) security devices and that might make open access feasible. Thanks for the leads.

That's true.  And it's not just the actual value, but the perceived potential value.  Whereas those of us here are likely to see a falling-apart book as valuable because we haven't read it before, others will simply assume it's old and collectable, putting everything at risk.  I do like the Prelinger approach, there:  According to their website, you can use the books to your heart's content, scan them, or what have you, but they don't leave the building.

As for security...I don't know.  The problem might not be in the technology so much as the medium.  I mean, the microdot (or its modern successor, the RFID chip) can be hidden in a comic page, but there are three problems.  First, it's not obvious that the book is "secure," which means that it doesn't scare anybody from walking out with it.  Second, you can only "track" the book if you find it to read the contents.  Third, being on flimsy, flaking paper, it's not too hard to remove the device, once you know what to look for.

I'm a pretty low-tech guy, at heart, so what I'd envision for security is going to apall a lot of people.  I think your idea of cutting out the pages and putting them in plastic protectors is a good start.  From there, they can be collected into something like one of the CGC slabs (but slightly bigger).  That monstrosity, you can protect.  And by "protect," I mean "make its home obvious" or "chain it to the table."

Plus, while I'm rambling about security...I have to wonder what effect people like you (making your collection available) and the various scanners are doing to the collector market.  Will Amazing-Man issues, for example, continue to command high prices when the idly curious can download most of the issues for free?  I know that the collectors didn't fare well when the comic companies started overproducing and using higher-quality paper, and I don't mind saying that I'd be happy to contribute to the end of thousand-dollar prices.  (Errr...that's related to security because fewer people would steal when the market is flooded.)

[JVJ]

I agree whole heatedly on your views concerning the slabbing of comic books!!!!
They are meant to be read and enjoyed. I can understand someone taking a stamp or baseball card and encasing it in a protective case never to be touched again. In it's little plastic tomb you can still look at it in its' entirety.
But, for heavens sake, a comic book has to be read to be enjoyed....
Maybe it just reminds me of when I was young. Walking home from the drugstore with a few new comics, the sun on my back on a warm summer day, reading the next thrilling installment of my favorite heroes.
Today, my children have access to a lot of my books. I like to think that I am giving them access to what I was able to enjoy as a young man.

I was 19 years old when I bought my first comic book, Doc, so I never really shared that aspect of your youth. In fact, when MY mother threw out all of MY comics (the NEXT day, actually), I simply went back to the store and bought them again. Afterwards, my parents were SO proud of me that I began to carry the expensive leather briefcase (that I'd gotten for Christmas the year before) to college - never ONCE realizing that I was simply carrying my comic collection with me so that they wouldn't have a chance to toss it out again...

The only time in my youth when I read comics was in David Butler's basement when I was about 10. It was there that I encountered John Stanley (Little Lulu), Russ Manning (Brothers of the Spear) and Carl Barks (Uncle Scrooge). These were great fun, but they didn't make me want to buy or own copies for myself. That wasn't until I stumbled upon Steve Ditko's Spider-Man #33. THAT I had to have (and had to re-buy after the first copy was tossed).

Ah, such memories... Thanks for stirring them up.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[bminor]

JVJ,

I sense a kindred spirit here. As a youth I remember putting all my comic books art sorted out on top of my bed and had them all organized. They were mostly Marvel heroes. I had gotten a few from a neighbors Mom who was getting rid of her sons collection. His name was Steve as I recall. I thank him now for buying those comics and in the end enabling me to be able to receive them as a gift from his Mother!!!
Well, he had mostly DC and Dell war titles. He had only three of G.I. Combat  95, 100, 102. He had taken a piece of masking tape, and placed it on the lower left corner of the cover, next to the spine. On the first comic of that series he had he would write in ink on the tabpe GIC 1 on #95, #100  would be GC 2, and 102 would be GIC 3. Back in the sixties the odds of picking up missing issues was pretty remote in central Minnesota. After seeing what he did I did the same with the 75 or so Marvel comics that I had, with one alteration. I could not bear to mar the cover of a book, so I put the masking tape on the back cover, along with my own numbering system.

It has been about thirty-seven years since then. It was only a short time that I did this system, but I still can go back to my collection and look at some early Amazing Spider-man's and see that tape. The ink I wrote upon the tape has long since faded, but not my memories.

[DOC]

That's a great memory. I never heard the term slabbing till today, I cannot see myself doing that with my books. Some of my old books still have bags that are decades old.
Jim, my mom would throw away my comics everytime I had maybe 100 or so, she did this 3 times, it was when I had a play at church that she thought the comics could give me an idea, so she brought down one of those box shaped briefcases and all my comics from the last "harvesting", wow was I surprised I had already started accumulating another collection and besides what kind of monk costume except a green lama could comics provide me. after that she let me keep my comics and the rest is history.

[rez]

Always enjoy these stories of youth and growing up around comics.
Had one good comic buddy about a mile away, around the corner by the cornfield and just over the second set of tracks in a somewhat rural outside the smalltown atmosphere in northeastern Ohio.
Many an hour was spent pouring over those books and buddy and I knew our comics, the ones we had, in that we would play a game where one would cover up all the cover of a book except for like a square inch somewhere on the cover and then the other would have to figure out what book it was, the number, the cover and what the story was about. Man, we loved our comics.

One dollar weekly allowance permitted me the luxury of a trip into town to get my eight 12cent comics with four cents tax which cut things pretty close. heh
Then I'd be gone for the afternoon thrilling to the tales of EnemyAce where you felt like you were in the cockpit with him or flying superheroes with laser eyes..

We learned that the neighborhood little local store run by old Mr&Mrs Johnson with balsawood airplanes and the big glassfront cabinet with what seemed like every pennycandy you could think of

had a couple stacks of old comics behind the counter where you could spend a nickle a piece or trade 2for1 and get rid of your DennistheMeance and Archie comics for the good superhero ones. Could still find some 10cent comics in there on occasion as not that much time had passed with the arrival of the 12centers. Those 10centers were special 'cause they were from before our time.

Then the discovery of another store in town that did the same thing but was like an 8mile round trip into the new turf. We braved it on occasion when our store's comic stacks grew stale and of course the town store was always new to us stuff.

One time my buddy and I were trading around and I gave him a Mighty Crusaders comic under the promise that he wouldn't trade it away anywhere else. Several days later there I am pawing thru the nickel piles at our store and what do I find but my issue of Mighty Crusaders. Learned something that day.

If any want to hear further Tales of Blooming Comic Youth I've a story of my comic buddy's dad's threat to burn his comics up.  

[narfstar]

Man I so remember my dollar a week and 8 books. PA did not tax food, clothes, or books. I think they now tax books. I still remember taking my 8 books up to the counter in the local small town drugstore and having to decide which book to put back because the darn things had gone up to 15 cents. I do not think that they had all gone up so I could still get seven.

[JonTheScanner]

*Sigh*

I remember the switch from 10 cents to 12 cents -- at least for DC.  I occurred in October as I was (with my mother) buying prizes for games at my brother's birthday party.

Ohio didn't originally tax periodicals, but they started at some point.  I recall buying comics 2 at a time in multiple trips as my brother waited outside holding the stack since the tax didn't trigger at 24 cents.  I waited until the clerk wasn't busy with a line or they'd object to my multiple trips.