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Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63

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topic icon Author Topic: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63  (Read 10612 times)

kidterror

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Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« on: November 22, 2008, 03:27:28 AM »

I've heard this issue will be solicited soon. It will feature The Clock, Molly the Model, Wildfire (who is currently being used by DC) and Captain Triumph. This makes me wonder. Which Quality characters are free use? Surely there would have been some rumblings at DC if they owned the copyrights to these stories or trademarks on their names. Since the story featuring the Clock takes place after his last appearance does that mean every single story with the Clock in it is PD? I know legally Quality is probably the most confusing golden age publisher, seems like DC has the Fawcett guys locked down.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2008, 03:42:06 AM by kidterror »
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JonTheScanner

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2008, 04:46:42 AM »

Given that the Quality comics are acceptable here, it would seem the comics themselves didn't have their copyrights renewed and are in are public domain.  Of course a character name can go back under trademark if a new company picks begins to produce stories using that name.  The most obvious example is Captain Marvel.
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John C

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2008, 12:22:36 PM »

Again, this isn't supposed to be confusing.  If a book is no longer protected under copyright (or never was in the first place), then that book's contents are in the public domain.  Characters are neither copyrighted nor in the public domain except to the extent that stories about them are.

If you derive a version of a character in print completely from public domain sources, then it's legal; if you adapt a source protected under copyright, you're infringing the copyright.

And as usual, this is on a different scale than trademarks.

I wouldn't panic.  The guys at Image used to act like idiot teenagers, but they do hire lawyers to check these things out, so they definitely know what they're doing.
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boox909

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Savage Dragon #141
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2008, 03:34:15 AM »

"Spawn! Witchblade! Invincible! ShadowHawk! The Savage Dragon! Together, the greatest heroes of today unite to face the greatest heroes of yesterday! From the Golden Age of comics: Samson! Master Man! Silver Streak! Daredevil! Sky-Man! Thor! Bulletman! The Flame! This is the one it's all been building toward! Dragon's tour of the Image Universe comes to its dramatic conclusion in this, the grand finale to end all grand finales!"

    *  Due 26 Nov 2008
    * 32 PGS
    * $3.50 US
    * AUG082263

Just found out about this! If I kept up with new comics I would have known long ago and informed you good folks.

B.
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boox909

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Re: Savage Dragon #141
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2008, 03:14:41 AM »

Hey gang!

Here is a follow up for those curious about the Golden Age heroes appearing in the latest issue of Savage Dragon.

On the cover, the following appear:
The Flame
DareDevil
Thor (Fox)
Brad Spencer Wonderman
Bullet Man
Black Terror
Pyro Man
The 1950s Shield
Silver Streak
Samson (Fox)

In the interior pages, the following appear:
The Clock
Samson
DareDevil
Fighting Yank
Sky-Man
Uncle Sam
Black Terror
Brad Spencer Wonderman
Phantom Lady
Thor
Minute Man
Shock Gibson
Captain Freedom
Grim Reaper
Doc Strong
Captain Triumph
Silver Streak
Pyro Man
Captain Victory
Green Lama

And a host of characters that I simply do not recognize.

This is a fun issue that reminds me of the recent brief note I made regarding an issue of ThunderBunny that also featured some of these same characters.

Did I mention that this was a fun issue? Can anyone say that about Project Superpowers? I thought not.

B.  :D
« Last Edit: November 29, 2008, 06:12:46 PM by boox909 »
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bchat

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Re: Savage Dragon 141
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2008, 04:03:31 AM »

You mean this finally came out?!  It feels like it was ten years ago I first heard about issue 141.  Larsen's schedule had been atrocious the last several years, although I can certainly forgive him somewhat when he became publisher of Image for a while, but still!  I gave-up on this book nearly two years ago because it was getting increasingly difficult to find in stores, causing me to miss several issues and the sporadic schedule made it difficult to get into whenever a new issue did happen to come out.  Checking-out the Image site, I see he's been a busy little beaver lately, getting the book back on track.

I might be going blind, but I'm not seeing the Shield on the cover of 141, but I can make out what looks to be Captain Freedom, maybe Captain Triumph and possibly Shock Gibson (between Black Terror and Samson, wearing the red pants with yellow slippers)?

Did Speed Comics ever get released?  And in case you're wondering ... Yes, I'm seriously out-of-the-loop with a lot of the newer comics.

And while I was flipping around the Image site, I noticed that Spawn 185 went to a 2nd printing (good for them ... honestly, I'm not being sarcastic), but I seem to recall a long time ago that McFarlane said he wouldn't do additional printings of Spawn.  Anyone else remember him saying that or am I losing my marbles?
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boox909

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Re: Savage Dragon 141
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2008, 04:43:06 AM »


You mean this finally came out?!  It feels like it was ten years ago I first heard about issue 141.  Larsen's schedule had been atrocious the last several years, although I can certainly forgive him somewhat when he became publisher of Image for a while, but still!  I gave-up on this book nearly two years ago because it was getting increasingly difficult to find in stores, causing me to miss several issues and the sporadic schedule made it difficult to get into whenever a new issue did happen to come out.  Checking-out the Image site, I see he's been a busy little beaver lately, getting the book back on track.

I might be going blind, but I'm not seeing the Shield on the cover of 141, but I can make out what looks to be Captain Freedom, maybe Captain Triumph and possibly Shock Gibson (between Black Terror and Samson, wearing the red pants with yellow slippers)?

Did Speed Comics ever get released?  And in case you're wondering ... Yes, I'm seriously out-of-the-loop with a lot of the newer comics.

And while I was flipping around the Image site, I noticed that Spawn 185 went to a 2nd printing (good for them ... honestly, I'm not being sarcastic), but I seem to recall a long time ago that McFarlane said he wouldn't do additional printings of Spawn.  Anyone else remember him saying that or am I losing my marbles?


I was thinking about Shield/Capt. Freedom -- I have the Private Strong Shield in mind in this case, but it could indeed be Capt. Freedom. That could be Shock Gibson -- damn Larsen for not providing a cover/cameo guide  ;D

I Think that only an issue of Crack Comics is out...although I have not even seen it anywhere. :-\

There is a page in the back of the issue that reads:


"The Greatest Names In Comics Are Back! The Next Issue Project! Only From Image!"


Now get this, also on the page are cover facsimiles of various golden age titles.

The list as follows:
All-New Comics
Chamber of Chills
Crack Comics
Prize Comics
Jungle Comics
Speed Comics
Feature Comics
Police Comics
Zip Comics
Master Comics
National Comics
Mystery Comics
Fantastic Comics
Wonderworld Comics
Thrilling Comics
Wow Comics
Silver Streak Comics
Tomb of Terror
Exciting Comics
Science Comics
Wonder Comics
Smash Comics
Startling Comics
Weird Comics
Planet Comics
Whiz Comics


Clearly the impression is that Larsen plans to print a new retro issue of each of the above titles. I am curious how he plans to pull off some of this. For instance I wonder how Archie and DC would take to Image publishing new issues of Zip Comics and  Whiz Comics respectively?

Paging Mr. Jcolag!!!  :D

B.  :)

PS: Erik Larsen -- I think you read GA-UK...just admit it  ;)  Alex Ross, we know that you do not.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2008, 04:55:20 AM by boox909 »
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2008, 05:05:14 AM »

Yeah, you're right, it does look like the Private Strong, but that's owned by Joe Simon and Larsen (from what I've read) is only going to use Public Domain characters.  There is a cover for Next Issue's "Speed Comics" that shows Shock Gibson & Captain Freedom duking it out, with Cap in the same style costume that can be seen on the cover of 141.  A guide would have been nice, especially since there's one figure on there, in blue with red gloves and boots just at the edge of the cover, that could be just about anybody.

Regarding the titles you listed:  It could be Larsen is justing fishing-out the names, seeing which, if any, people respond to if "Crack" and (hopefully) "Speed Comics" do well.  With "Zip Comics" and "Whiz Comics", it's really a Trademark thing.  If the titles aren't in use, they're fair game, although I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed clear of "Whiz" just out of respect to DC and the Captain Marvel character.

I'm guessing you don't like what Dynamite Ent & Alex Ross are doing with "Superpowers"?
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boox909

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2008, 05:25:08 AM »


Yeah, you're right, it does look like the Private Strong, but that's owned by Joe Simon and Larsen (from what I've read) is only going to use Public Domain characters.  There is a cover for Next Issue's "Speed Comics" that shows Shock Gibson & Captain Freedom duking it out, with Cap in the same style costume that can be seen on the cover of 141.  A guide would have been nice, especially since there's one figure on there, in blue with red gloves and boots just at the edge of the cover, that could be just about anybody.

Regarding the titles you listed:  It could be Larsen is justing fishing-out the names, seeing which, if any, people respond to if "Crack" and (hopefully) "Speed Comics" do well.  With "Zip Comics" and "Whiz Comics", it's really a Trademark thing.  If the titles aren't in use, they're fair game, although I wouldn't be surprised if he stayed clear of "Whiz" just out of respect to DC and the Captain Marvel character.

I'm guessing you don't like what Dynamite Ent & Alex Ross are doing with "Superpowers"?




Project Superpowers? Well, we can say that I am not a fan at all  ;D  The only thing I like about it is the possibility that it might steer new golden age fans to sites like GA-UK. I simply cannot get behind the series and its spin-offs.

Now, the issues surrounding Whiz Comics make for interesting fodder if Larsen did put out an issue. Remember DC's MILLENNIUM EDITION of Whiz Comics #1 from 2000? And now that I quickly research it, there is the matter of DC's "Return of the Justice Society" run which rebooted one-shots of National Comics #1 and Smash Comics #1 featuring Justice Society characters.

Interesting? Huh?!  ;D
B.
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2008, 05:44:09 AM »

Quote
Project Superpowers? Well, we can say that I am not a fan at all    The only thing I like about it is the possibility that it might steer new golden age fans to sites like GA-UK. I simply cannot get behind the series and its spin-offs.


Fair enough.  I'm enjoying it though for what it is.  It's the only group of titles I'm currently collecting right now (I'm simply tired of everything else that's new), although getting the books off of eBay to save money is leaving me about 2-3 weeks behind the rest of the world.  Judging by the first issue, "Black Terror" looks like it's going to be a fun book to read.

If I remember correctly (and that's a big IF at the moment), I think DC ran two series for JSA like the one you mention (two issues that surrounded a bunch of one-shots).  If it wasn't so late and I didn't mind moving a few boxes, I could just go check, but I'm tired and lazy right now.  I do remember one of the one-shots was titled "Thrilling Comics" and I believe another was called "Exciting Comics", although I'm not 100% sure of that one.  So, I can't imagine that DC would make too big of a stink if Larsen published a "Whiz Comics".  If the last time DC used that name was 2000 (again, I want to double-check the year on that but I'm just don't want to move unless it's to go to bed) then the Trademark is free and clear by now.  They could make a fuss about it, but they'ld have no legal legs to stand on.
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boox909

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2008, 06:11:07 AM »


Quote
Project Superpowers? Well, we can say that I am not a fan at all    The only thing I like about it is the possibility that it might steer new golden age fans to sites like GA-UK. I simply cannot get behind the series and its spin-offs.


Fair enough.  I'm enjoying it though for what it is.  It's the only group of titles I'm currently collecting right now (I'm simply tired of everything else that's new), although getting the books off of eBay to save money is leaving me about 2-3 weeks behind the rest of the world.  Judging by the first issue, "Black Terror" looks like it's going to be a fun book to read.

If I remember correctly (and that's a big IF at the moment), I think DC ran two series for JSA like the one you mention (two issues that surrounded a bunch of one-shots).  If it wasn't so late and I didn't mind moving a few boxes, I could just go check, but I'm tired and lazy right now.  I do remember one of the one-shots was titled "Thrilling Comics" and I believe another was called "Exciting Comics", although I'm not 100% sure of that one.  So, I can't imagine that DC would make too big of a stink if Larsen published a "Whiz Comics".  If the last time DC used that name was 2000 (again, I want to double-check the year on that but I'm just don't want to move unless it's to go to bed) then the Trademark is free and clear by now.  They could make a fuss about it, but they'ld have no legal legs to stand on.



Now that you mention it...I remember DC's send ups of Thrilling and Exciting...and I agree...hopefully DC would not fuss about Larsen/Image having some fun with the old stuff.  ;D
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2008, 04:34:56 PM »

Oops!  I checked last night and for the 1999 series there wasn't an "Exciting Comics" book for the JSA series, but there was "Thrilling".  "JSA: All-Stars" #s 1-8 was the other series I was thinking of.  That's what I get for trying to think after midnight.
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John C

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Re: Savage Dragon 141
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2008, 09:58:53 PM »


Clearly the impression is that Larsen plans to print a new retro issue of each of the above titles. I am curious how he plans to pull off some of this. For instance I wonder how Archie and DC would take to Image publishing new issues of Zip Comics and  Whiz Comics respectively?
Paging Mr. Jcolag!!!  :D
B.  :)


Wise guy...

Anyway, I think you guys got it right.  Those are trademarks, and unless there's an in-field use of the name kept current, they're fair game.  Marvel's Captain Marvels keep getting their own books every few years specifically to prevent DC from getting the Big Red Cheese in a headlining role.

Also of relevance, of course, is that Larsen has kept good connections, as far as I know, with other creators.  Even if the trademark is still held firm, he probably has enough goodwill to get the book out the door with little more than a "published as ABC Comics with permission from XYZ Corp" disclaimer.  As long as he asked first, I mean, and probably offers to pay a nominal fee.

I don't think the Millenium reprints would count for this purpose, especially since it's been more than a few years since that issue went to press.
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2008, 03:17:14 AM »

Quote
Those are trademarks, and unless there's an in-field use of the name kept current, they're fair game.  Marvel's Captain Marvels keep getting their own books every few years specifically to prevent DC from getting the Big Red Cheese in a headlining role.


You know, I said the same thing about the Captain Marvel Trademark a few years ago on another message board and got slammed for insinuating that Marvel would do anything so under-handed.

Quote
I don't think the Millenium reprints would count for this purpose, especially since it's been more than a few years since that issue went to press.


I read an interview with Larsen where he stated that after three years the TM expires, but I think he's misinformed.  I've done a little research over the years into TMs (information I hope to one day put to good use), and the rule is you have to renew them after five years (which is basically a piece of paper stating that you are still actively using the TM to create new product) and re-register the TM after ten (which is the government's way of taking more money from you).  With all that said, the Trademarks for the reprints would have expired a few years ago unless DC did something more with the titles since then.  They might have, since I'm all-but out of the loop when it comes to the last few years of newer comics.
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JVJ

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2008, 03:25:10 AM »


Quote
Those are trademarks, and unless there's an in-field use of the name kept current, they're fair game.  Marvel's Captain Marvels keep getting their own books every few years specifically to prevent DC from getting the Big Red Cheese in a headlining role.


You know, I said the same thing about the Captain Marvel Trademark a few years ago on another message board and got slammed for insinuating that Marvel would do anything so under-handed.


Whoever slammed you, b, had never met a Marvel lawyer...

(|:{>
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John C

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2008, 03:05:44 PM »


You know, I said the same thing about the Captain Marvel Trademark a few years ago on another message board and got slammed for insinuating that Marvel would do anything so under-handed.


Ha!

To be fair to the Marvel guys, that's not quite as nefarious as it sounds.  If DC can publish a book with the word "Marvel" in the title, then they're setting themselves up for problems down the line.  Really bad problems, too, since the word is their "core" trademark, being the company name.

Hypothetically, if the Fawcett Captain Marvel got his own series, I would probably be within my rights to publish my own "Marvel Mystery Comics."  When they sue, my defense is that they didn't defend their trademark against DC or keep the trademark in prominent use for the purpose.

Imagine, then, a world where there are a dozen books on the market with the word "Marvel" in the title, none of which are produced by Marvel.  The result is that the House of Ideas has just diluted its brand name out of the industry.

(That's the same reason that, no matter what ever happens to Batman, DC will probably always run a Detective Comics title.  It's not necessarily the flagship, but it's critical to maintaining the purity of their corporate trademark, if that makes any sense.)
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2008, 03:43:10 PM »

Quote
To be fair to the Marvel guys, that's not quite as nefarious as it sounds.  If DC can publish a book with the word "Marvel" in the title, then they're setting themselves up for problems down the line.  Really bad problems, too, since the word is their "core" trademark, being the company name.

Hypothetically, if the Fawcett Captain Marvel got his own series, I would probably be within my rights to publish my own "Marvel Mystery Comics."  When they sue, my defense is that they didn't defend their trademark against DC or keep the trademark in prominent use for the purpose.


I'm not sure about that.  "Captain Marvel" is the name of a character, whereas "Marvel Mystery Comics" is just the name of a comic.  Even if DC did publish a comic with the word "Marvel" in it, putting the word "Mystery" in-between MARVEL and COMICS may not enough to keep you safe, because the name itself implies that the book is being published by Marvel Comics, while in DC's case they're just publishing a book featuring Captain Marvel.

Quote
Imagine, then, a world where there are a dozen books on the market with the word "Marvel" in the title, none of which are produced by Marvel.  The result is that the House of Ideas has just diluted its brand name out of the industry.


I understand the point you're making.  Certainly Marvel shouldn't allow other companies to make money off of their name, but that name is "Marvel Comics", not just the word "Marvel".  As long as the title of the book is in reference to the character the comic features, I don't believe Marvel would have much of a case.  The problem, however, is that Marvel has enough money to run anyone out of business who tried to publish such a book, tying them up in court for years if they wanted, and that's just wrong.

Quote
(That's the same reason that, no matter what ever happens to Batman, DC will probably always run a Detective Comics title.  It's not necessarily the flagship, but it's critical to maintaining the purity of their corporate trademark, if that makes any sense.)


I don't think "Detective Comics" is that important to the company name anymore, since the company only goes by "DC Comics" at this point.  If anything, I feel that the continued publication of Detective and Action Comics is a matter of pride for DC, being able to point to those two books and say "Hey, these two titles have been published non-stop since the the 1930s and we're the only company that can say that!"
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darkmark

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2008, 05:02:52 PM »

Well, let's face it, guys:  the real reason Marvel decided to publish a character named Captain Marvel back in 1967 was the fact that MF Enterprises had been putting out a crummy book called CAPTAIN MARVEL.  They didn't want somebody to confuse MF product with their own, so they created Captain Mar-Vell of the Kree to take up the slack...and, as an original character, he couldn't be confused with the Fawcett version. 

I think the original intent in the AVENGERS' Skrull-Kree War saga was to have their Captain Marvel "die" by permanently merging with Rick Jones and never emerging again.  The only reason they brought him out of mothballs was because DC was reviving Fawcett's character, and they weren't about to let DC pull an MF on them...hence, the SHAZAM! title.

For the same reason, Marvel was antsy about letting Eclipse publish comics about the British hero Marvelman, fearing possible encroachment on their name.  So Alan Moore suggested they retitle the hero (and comic) Miracleman, after a parody-Marvelman he'd created for a cameo in his Captain Britain stories. 

It makes sense.  If you have a fairly well-known product, you don't want it to be confused with another one.  And since this sort of thing goes on a lot more than we'd want to admit in the corporate world ("Dr. Thunder" in soft drinks, for example), Marvel is within its rights to do what it has done.
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John C

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2008, 05:48:45 PM »

Yes, that's exactly my point.  I had forgotten about the MF character, though.  Thanks for the reminder.

Legally, the term is "trademark dilution," the idea that customers will be less certain of a product's origin.  That's what trademark cases are almost always about.  If your new product causes someone else's trademark to be less clear (the example I was trying for with a DC-owned Captain Marvel book), then you're at fault.  However, if the trademark was diluted BEFORE you brought out your product, then they have no case.  This is also why I brought up the "Detective Comics" example.  DC might not go (and may never have really gone) by that name, but if you see the name on the cover, you'll assume it's a DC book; it's their "mark in trade."

That's why Xerox used to have an entire department of people who read press releases, magazines, books, and whatever else they could find, day in and day out, looking for a "bad" instance of the Xerox name; you could get hit with a (minor) lawsuit for using "xerox" as a verb, especially in reference to another company's photocopiers.  Likewise, that's why Disney strikes with an iron fist whenever some preschool or hospital paints Mickey Mouse on the wall without first getting permission.  If they don't, the law gives the next guy (who might not be so innocent) a strong defense when Disney sues for a good reason.

As you point out, the real problem is that it's an excuse to throw sacks of money at your lawyer.  But, on the other hand, at least it's still only a civil offense to violate trademark.
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2008, 07:54:48 PM »

Hey! It's snowing!

Quote
However, if the trademark was diluted BEFORE you brought out your product, then they have no case.


The thing is, "Captain Marvel" was around long before Marvel Comics became the company name.  I read somewhere where Stan Lee is quoted as saying something to the effect that the name was good, wasn't being used at the time, and so he took it.  I take what The Man says at face value because he's never come across as someone who dabbles in double-talk or openly deceives the public.

Quote
DC might not go (and may never have really gone) by that name, but if you see the name on the cover, you'll assume it's a DC book


You and I might assume that Detective Comics is published by DC, but what about people who don't read comics?  Show them a copy of Detective Comics that doesn't have Batman (or any recognizable DC character) and the DC logo on the front cover and see if they go "Oh, that's a DC book".  I've met people who think Marvel Comics publishes Batman or DC Comics publishes Spider-Man because they don't read comics ... and No, I'm not making that up.  They might know a company name but they have no clue what exactly that company produces.

I'm not 100% sold on the idea that somebody couldn't publish a comic book where the word "Marvel" was part of the character name (such as Sgt Marvel or The Pink Marvel).  I think the fact that it doesn't happen is because there's a fair amount of respect between the various publishers, and any small press company that tried publishing such a book would simply be sued out of existance ... not to say that they would lose the case, just that they wouldn't have enough cash to keep fighting long enough to win.

I would be more inclined to whole-heartedly believe what you guys are saying if Marvel DID NOT keep the name "Captain Marvel" Trademarked.  If the word "Marvel" is what they're protecting, then they've already done that with the company name alone and don't need to TM "Captain Marvel".  As it stands, my belief is that Marvel is simply trying to keep DC from being able to make a boat-load of money off of a character that they can only refer to as "Shazam".
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JVJ

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2008, 08:17:00 PM »



The thing is, "Captain Marvel" was around long before Marvel Comics became the company name.  I read somewhere where Stan Lee is quoted as saying something to the effect that the name was good, wasn't being used at the time, and so he took it.  I take what The Man says at face value because he's never come across as someone who dabbles in double-talk or openly deceives the public.


You might consider that Marvel Mystery Comics was around a couple of YEARS before Captain Marvel appeared, bchat, and that up until 1957, Stan was publishing a comic called Marvel Tales, which was a continuation of that title. His story of the name "not being used" is just that - a nice story, but Marvel had a constant use of that word in the title of their books for decades before Stan "stumbled" upon it.
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bchat

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2008, 12:40:26 AM »

Quote
Marvel had a constant use of that word in the title of their books for decades before Stan "stumbled" upon it.


The story I'm talking about made it clear that Stan knew the name was out there, and he himself said how wrong it seemed that Marvel Comics didn't have a character named "Captain Marvel", so when it was available, he took it.  I didn't mean to have what I said come across as him "stumbling across" the name.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 12:42:32 AM by bchat »
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JVJ

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2008, 01:44:06 AM »

Sorry, bchat,
I misunderstood. I thought you were referring to his naming the company Marvel Comics. My bad, but you DID mention the Stan Lee quote right after you said "company name." And I'm easily confused these days.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

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John C

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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2008, 02:36:52 PM »


You and I might assume that Detective Comics is published by DC, but what about people who don't read comics?  Show them a copy of Detective Comics that doesn't have Batman (or any recognizable DC character) and the DC logo on the front cover and see if they go "Oh, that's a DC book".  I've met people who think Marvel Comics publishes Batman or DC Comics publishes Spider-Man because they don't read comics ... and No, I'm not making that up.  They might know a company name but they have no clue what exactly that company produces.


That's not quite the point, though.  The point is that Marvel and DC, by dint of their output over the last few decades, have each built up a certain reputation in their respective brands, and it's associated with their names--to the extent that anybody cares, I'll grant you.  By allowing someone else to use closely-related names, they run two risks.  First, they might lose marketshare if existing fans are led astray by the similar names.  Second, they can suffer (misdirected) backlash if the infringing product isn't a quality work.

I'm from New York (though not the city), so here's a real-world example.  On every street corner in midtown Manhattan, there are street vendors, most of whom are selling knockoff/pirated merchandise of nearly every sort.  The genuine companies hate this, first, because they're losing sales from tourists who believe they can get a Rolex for five bucks.  But also, said tourist may go home, find that his new watch is garbage, and spread the word that Rolex isn't all it's cracked up to be.

(Today, you'll find far fewer watches than you will designer handbags, but since I'm not sufficiently in touch with my feminine side to worry about purses, we're going with the watches...)

This is what trademark law is all about:  To the extent that anybody cares who makes your product, you have the right to defend your reputation against people trying to confuse the customer.


I'm not 100% sold on the idea that somebody couldn't publish a comic book where the word "Marvel" was part of the character name (such as Sgt Marvel or The Pink Marvel).  I think the fact that it doesn't happen is because there's a fair amount of respect between the various publishers, and any small press company that tried publishing such a book would simply be sued out of existance ... not to say that they would lose the case, just that they wouldn't have enough cash to keep fighting long enough to win.


The character's name is fine.  Feel free to create bunches of Marvels, supermen, hulking monsters, and so forth.  You're right that this is just a "gentlemen's agreement," for the most part, and to help the fans keep everything straight.  But don't dare ever consider naming your COMIC any such thing, or using the characters' names in advertising, because that's where trademarks come into effect.

That's the gist of the often-repeated dogma that "you can't copyright a name or a phrase."  You can refer to someone as Clark Kent, and he can even be Superman.  But the moment you make a big deal about that fact, Warner Brothers would like a word with you.


I would be more inclined to whole-heartedly believe what you guys are saying if Marvel DID NOT keep the name "Captain Marvel" Trademarked.  If the word "Marvel" is what they're protecting, then they've already done that with the company name alone and don't need to TM "Captain Marvel".  As it stands, my belief is that Marvel is simply trying to keep DC from being able to make a boat-load of money off of a character that they can only refer to as "Shazam".


On the other hand, Shazam is a more distinctive phrase, whereas Captain Marvel sounds utterly generic after almost seventy years.  They're better off without it, advertising-wise, in my opinion.
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Re: Next Issue Project Crack Comics #63
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2008, 04:09:09 PM »

Quote
but you DID mention the Stan Lee quote right after you said "company name."


JVJ - I should have worded what I said better.  Reading what I typed again, I can see where anyone could have gotten confused as to what my point was.
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