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[OtherEric]

Lots of comics get labeled "key" in our hobby.  Some days it seems that by sticking that title on every first issue, last issue, first appearance, first issue by artist, and so on, that we're on the verge of having more key books than non-keys 

I normally don't have a problem with this; but it does mean we don't have a name for the _really_ important books.  I'm talking about the 50 to 100 or so comics that are the cornerstone of our hobby.  The ones which made an impact on not just comic books, but pop culture in general.  I wouldn't try and create an exact list, but I think most of us could agree on lots of what would go on it.  The best test I've ever found for a book belonging on the list is to hold a copy of one in your hand, if you ever get the chance.  You can feel the weight of history from the book; you know this is something that matters.  Here, ultimately, is where something meaningful started.  Until today, I had a grand total of two books in that category:  Mad 1 and Donald Duck FC 178.

Today, I got a third book from that list in the mail: Animal Comics 1; first appearance of Pogo Possum by Walt Kelly.  This is a character who made his biggest impact in the newspaper strips rather than the comic books.  But once he made it to the strips his influence was immense. I do not think I am exaggerating at all when I say that the comic page as we know it would be much different if Pogo had not broken the ground it did in dealing with current issues.  Not to mention the number of comic creators who have spoken of the sheer artistry of Kelly and how it influenced them.

Anyway, coming soon to a GAC near you: Animal Comics 1.  And with Jon filling in the other few issues we still need, we will soon have every last page of the series available in C2C paper scans.  There are lots of reasons to love GAC, but for me at least a complete run of Animal is high on the list.

[JonTheScanner]

This is great.  I've scanned 10 15 and 29.  AgentUup is editing 10 and 29.  I'll scan 2 soon, and HP is doing 4.

[darkmark]

You're bringin' in a key?  Far out, man!  Just don't get busted, okay? 

[narfstar]

I had a Brave and Bold 28 once   without which there might not have been a FF and the Marvel age of comcis.

[Yoc]

Fantastic news Eric and gang!
This is truly a project of my heart and I'm thrilled to see it happen so fast and right here on GAC!

Thanks Gang!!

[OtherEric]

I might as well ask, did anybody want to take a crack at editing the Animal 1?  I don't want to hold off posting it long enough to teach myself how to polish it more than I usually do; and it's a nice enough copy that I think my usual efforts should turn out pretty well.  But I wouldn't mind having an extra shine put on it; as I quite clearly stated I do think this one is something special.

[JonTheScanner]

I was just talking to AgentUup who has edited for me (including he's doing Animal #29 and #10 right now).  He's volunteered to do it.

Can you put it up on the FTP site?

[OtherEric]

Once I have it scanned, sure.  I'm just under half-way done right now, I'll stick it in your folder and let you know once I have it done.  That may be tonight; I may not finish it off until tomorrow.  And thanks to both of you!

[OtherEric]

Jon, the raw scans are in your folder on the FTP.  I was in mid-book before I got Jim's advice on what format to send the images in, so they're just JPEGS.  If AgentUup wants new scans I'm happy to go back and get them.

[agentuup]

Got your scans, OtherEric.  And nice meeting you.  I'm afraid I'm not on this message board much, but I've appreciated all your scans here.  I will do my best job with the edits for Animal 1.

[John C]

Funny thing about the "key book" idea is that I've seen a number of people start talking about "canonical comics."  I can't help but laugh, because it's all "stuff that influenced what I read now" (at least the stuff that's not too embarassing to mention), rather than actually important to the industry.  And it's all easily available in trade.  So, of course, the Watchmen is on most lists, and sometimes the GL/GA run, but not anything that's genuinely important.

I mean, I admittedly don't get particularly excited about Pogo, but even I can certainly see that it (and thus Kelly) was a heck of a lot more influential than Denny O'Neil or Alan Moore.

[OtherEric]

Actually, I would argue that Watchmen might fit.  It's a little too early still to say for sure, and it's much harder to point at a "key issue" since part of the influence is that it brought in preplanned stories and collected editions.  The GL/GA run, while excellent, really had a very diffused influence at best.  Great comics, but I sure don't get that sense of history in my hand holding the #76.

The B&B 28 Narf mentioned would definitely count, though.  Even if it wasn't the first Super team, it was where the concept really finally stuck and successfully spread out.  I hope you wound up selling it rather than losing it to mischance, Narf.  I've had to let some good books go; it's never fun.

[narfstar]

Blew a motor and had to get a new car. It helped pay the downpayment. I did not get what it was worth though

The B&B 28 Narf mentioned would definitely count, though.  Even if it wasn't the first Super team, it was where the concept really finally stuck and successfully spread out.  I hope you wound up selling it rather than losing it to mischance, Narf.  I've had to let some good books go; it's never fun.
[/quote]

[John C]

I suppose a case could be made for "Watchmen," though I don't really see it as genuinely influential.  It looks like it, I guess, but there were other "beginning to end" books out (and Moore was planning for an entire universe) and so on.  It changed the popular view of superheroes, I guess, but that's something I'm really hoping is transient and is even predated in many respects.

And yeah, I don't really see the entire GL/GA run as an option; again, I think it's just that it's well-known and is always in print.  The JLA's first appearance, sure, and throw in the Legion's first appearance, for all the ideas it pioneered in a few pages.  The CCA-violating anti-drug issues (GL/GA and Spidey), probably.  The first appearance of the Lieutenant Marvels dominoed into major heroes having a "family" of thematically-appropriate allies that continues through today.  But--and that was, I think, my original point in bringing it up--there's a huge difference between influential on the entire industry or popular culture (Speedy's heroin habit literally changed the Comics Code overnight, after all) as we're talking about it and stuff that people enjoyed for being novel.

[Yoc]

While I certainly hate the dark tone that resulted from it I'm going to guess Amazing Spider-Man #129 - the first appearance of The Punisher - might well be considered a key issue no?  It sure changed the face of a 'hero' at Marvel.  Now they shoot to kill after him.  I don't count Ghost-Rider or Son Of Satan as anti-heroes and they function in the realm of theology.  I trust that wont offend anyone.  It wasn't meant to.

-Yoc

[OtherEric]

Oh, ASM 129 is definitely a key book.  I don't know that it fits into the "very key book" concept I was trying to develop- like I said, I think that's a very select group.  You might be able to make the argument, though- it's definitely a watershed book in how later trends in comics developed.

[misappear]

The Key Book ideas are great to read. 

I'm not a huge fan of early golden age (in general) because of its sometimes primitive artwork and stories-by-commitee.  Historically, though, some of the books that I least appreciate are the most important in terms of providing a starting point for the artform and industry.  From an aesthetic view, I find Lou Fine's Ray and Condor much more groundbreaking than Batman, but there certainly won't be a Dark Condor movie any time soon.

Then there's the notion of a key versus my key.  I certainly acknowledge the importance of the key canon as it is traditionally recognized.  My key, however, was Speigleman's Raw #1 from 1980.  When I first saw and read the oversized volume, I began get the idea, which would deepen further for me later, that so much more was possible in the comics medium.  That was my big wow moment.  That set of issues is on my list of 10 things to bring if I was evacuating my home. 

By the same token, that Barks stuff..............holy smoke!

--Dave

[John C]

I'll go a step further on the Punisher:  The character is important because he's popular and, within his limited reach, influential.  But he's not important to the industry, nor is his first appearance, because he has many predecessors.  Killing criminals, after all, isn't remotely original with the Punisher, and he was introduced as an antagonist.

By contrast, the first appearance of Amazing Man literally creates (for comics, at least) the conflicted hero with an evil streak.  Every hero who's been mind-controlled by an enemy or had a "dark side" (or who has an arch-enemy intertwined with his origin) owes A-Man for setting the precedent.

[OtherEric]

Well, the reason the Punisher appearance might count (and note that I'm saying might; I don't really feel it really quite makes the list but it's one where I'm willing to play devil's advocate) is that it's the character where the ideas really stuck.  Yes, there had been plenty of earlier examples.  But most of them are forgotten by the bulk of comic collectors today, while everybody knows who the Punisher is.

Remind me, was Raw 1 where the final version of Maus started?  I know there were earlier versions back into the early 70's, but if that's where the version that was eventually collected began that probably is one of the 'very key' books I was mentioning.  First comic book to win the Pulitzer prize was definitely a major milestone.  Even if it didn't directly spawn imitators and follow-ups, it really was the book where comics (at least occasionally) started to be taken seriously on some level.

[misappear]

Yes, A redrawn Maus was serialized in Raw.  Those chapters became the foundation of the larger prize-winner.

Swarte, Panter and others joined Speigleman in the large format modeled after "Breakdowns," which was just printed and expanded.

--D

[John C]

What's funny about Maus is that it affected the fans far more than it affected the industry.  It's probably the start (or at the very least emblematic of) the insistence that comics aren't just for kids.  Not that I totally deny the sentiment, but feel the need to point out that the mere assertion makes the statement questionable.  It's like saying "you know...gravity does pull things down."  Even when you believed it before, the fact it's being discussed makes you wonder.

Question:  My instinct says the Green Lama (first showing up in comics in Prize Comics #7), but his radio serial didn't show up until 1949.  Who's our first multimedia property?  The Blue Beetle got a comic strip and a radio show, but Superman got a cartoon (the radio show was later).  Does anybody beat them out?  Captain Marvel's serial showed up at around the same time, right?

Forgotten now, but another critical series would have to be "World of Krypton," which not only--explicitly based on the TV success of "Roots"--was the first standalone mini-series, but also the first significant book to make a big deal about a character's legacy.  In both those senses, it prefigures "Watchmen" substantially.  They both even end with a very real end of the world.

[JonTheScanner]

Superman started in
comics in 1938 (Action #1)
newspaper strip Jan 6, 1939
radio on Feb 12 1940
cartoon in 1941
movie serial 1949
TV Sept 191952

and on lots of toys, etc. in between those times.

[misappear]

Just by definition, I would think the key of keys would be Action #1.  Not in my lifetime, tho.  Being born in 1954, I didn't actually see a key moment until Fantastic Four #1, then again at Green Lantern #76.  I didn't actually see the undergrounds until years after the fact. 

Straight out, tho:  Isn't Superman the really big gorilla in the room?

--D

[John C]

To the extent that superheroes have been the driving force of the comics industry (and I think they have), I'd say that Superman is critical for outlining the overwhelming majority of genre conventions in about a dozen pages.  That's probably why nobody brought it up--it's almost implicit.

In some ways, Tintin might be even more key than Superman.  But I'm not sufficiently familiar with the material to make that judgement, other than to point out Herge's ten year head start on similar storytelling devices.

And yeah, it looks like Superman is also the multimedia guy, though the Shadow might have something to say about that, even if he came in backwards.  Blue Beetle looks like the closest, but he's about six months behind the Man of Steel, and none of Fox's ventures lasted very long.

[OtherEric]

Oh, yes.  Action #1 is definitely the Key of Keys.  Others that come to mind: Detective 27, Marvel 1, Whiz 2, Pep 22, Mad 1, Showcase 4, Brave & Bold 28, Fantastic Four 1, Amazing Fantasy 15... The list is certainly longer than that; even the "very key" list.

By contrasting keys to "very key"s I'm trying to eliminate things like, to pull out a couple random example, Flash 112 or Daredevil 158.  The first appearance of Elongated Man would be a book I could call a "key" with no hesitation.  Same with the first Miller issue of Daredevil.  But they are quite simply not in the same class as the books I listed up there.  The point of my thesis, such as it is, is there is a relatively small group of books that are at least an order of magnitude greater than what we normally consider key.  And that Animal #1, while it might be one of the lesser books relative to others in that elite group, is nevertheless one of the 50 to 100 books that ARE in that special group.

Trying to decide which books really count for that group is a fun subject for debate; are books like Green Lantern 76 or Amazing Spider-Man 129 big enough to go there?  I tend to disagree on both, but both of them are definitely in their own way important enough to be worth considering.  The two books from the 70's I would be most likely to stick in the group are Giant Size X-Men 1 and Cerebus 1.  The GS X-men should be obvious on reasons; and whatever you think about Dave Sim I think you need to admit his influence and admire his achievement.  (Even if, for my tastes, he went from frequently quite entertaining to utter offensive nutcase I admire what he achieved.  I just have very little interest in reading anything past the Sandman parody issues...)

Yeah, Shadow will win if we don't require the character to start in comics.  (Somewhere in my collection I've got the one issue of the Pulp Powell did the cover for...)