[rez]

Seeing the large volume of scans that get produced for the site might it be a positive thing to slim line the operation and make better use of the time/labor involved

by providing a clean collection of the various more common ad pages that are repeated throughout the issues

in one location where scanners could download the collection to use when needed?

Might anyone already be using such a thing?

Just a thought.

Cheers

[narfstar]

I do not understand the facination with c2c. I would rather not have the more mundane ads.

[JVJ]

I do not understand the facination with c2c. I would rather not have the more mundane ads.

People use the scans of these comics for more than just READING, narf. Historians, sociologists, toy collectors, etc. might find some value in having the scans. For instance, Craig Yoe was doing a book where he was comparing the "case histories" in Seduction of the Innocent with actual ads in the comic books. I went through the actual books to get him an answer about an ad for a bullwhip, but I'm one of the lucky ones who has the comics to review. Why limit the usefulness of the GAC scans? c2c is the ONLY way that covers all the bases and eliminates the future need to actually hold the book in your hand.

The horizon is broader than you might think.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[boox909]

I do not understand the facination with c2c. I would rather not have the more mundane ads.

People use the scans of these comics for more than just READING, narf. Historians, sociologists, toy collectors, etc. might find some value in having the scans. For instance, Craig Yoe was doing a book where he was comparing the "case histories" in Seduction of the Innocent with actual ads in the comic books. I went through the actual books to get him an answer about an ad for a bullwhip, but I'm one of the lucky ones who has the comics to review. Why limit the usefulness of the GAC scans? c2c is the ONLY way that covers all the bases and eliminates the future need to actually hold the book in your hand.

The horizon is broader than you might think.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

As a historian type who has gone through scans just to look at the different types of ads and historical type filler features for my own personal curiosity, I heartily second what Jim said! 

B.

[OtherEric]

I don't always care about the ads, but I do often enough that I think it's worth including them.  And, in some cases, there are enough small variations that I think it's worth rescanning if possible.  (I also think that, when we can figure out what ads had to be there on incomplete books, it's worth adding in the scans from other books where we do have the pages as well.  That will happen on the Phantom Lady 22; I found the missing back cover ads on two other Fox books from the same month.)

I know on the Authentic Police Cases project I'm rescanning entire BOOKS that were nearly completely reprinted later in the run, just on the off chance that somebody will want to compare for some minor difference that I don't notice on a quick glance.  It may never matter, but having complete original scans is a good thing.  (With that said, I can't fault anybody who doesn't want to rescan a seemingly identical page.)

[John C]

The two rules I usually go with regarding information are that (a) too much is better than too little, because anybody can delete, whereas only a select few can add, and (b) you can never be absolutely sure two things are completely identical--once you say "yes," someone else will find the difference that you missed.

[Yoc]

I'm firmly in the C2C camp.  Better to have them and delete them than not have them scanned and wish they were there.  Some of those ads are better than the stories!

That said any book made after 1970 or so I could care less about ads.

-Yoc

[narfstar]

Well in case anyone has not noticed I do now scan c2c except for the IW reprints because that was not in the original.

[JonTheScanner]

One thing i use for handling ads is spreadsheet that shows what comics (that I have scans of) were published in a given month by a given company.  That way when i scan a new comic, I can check and see if I already have that ad.  I also use it to replace missing ifc ibc bc from coverless scans when I can verify the ads.  This can be done via fiche.  It also can be done by using Heritage.  Often on the Heritage fc and bc scans you can read through the cover to see the ifc or ibc.

Narfstar (and others),

I also have a pretty complete set of IW ads which got used over and over.  If I upload those to FTP, would it encourage you to provide ctc scans?

[narfstar]

That and your spreadsheet would be helpful. Thanks Jon

[Yoc]

Not a bad idea there Jon!

[OtherEric]

That does sound useful, Jon.

And we had noticed on the C2C, Narf.  It is appreciated!

I tend to agree that there's less need to bother on the IW reprints; since we generally wind up trying to present those as the originals if we can.  Yay for Heritage, so we can get nice covers in many cases.

[JonTheScanner]

I've uploaded to the FTP site a spreadsheet named chronology.xls which indicates (some) comics published the same months.  Generally speaking a bimonthly labeled, for example, May-June will have the same ads as a monthly labeled May though I've stored them as Junes on the sheet.

I've also uploaded a folder of ads used in IW/Super comics.

Feel free to use these to ctc-ize any scans you wish.  Note there are no ifc scans in the folder since IW/Super put indicia on the ifc.

[narfstar]

Thanks Jon

[Yoc]

Nicely done Jon, thanks!

[rez]

Jon sure is on top of things.

Thank you Jon for your attentiveness to detail.

[archiver_USA]

That does sound useful, Jon.

And we had noticed on the C2C, Narf.  It is appreciated!

I tend to agree that there's less need to bother on the IW reprints; since we generally wind up trying to present those as the originals if we can.  Yay for Heritage, so we can get nice covers in many cases.

Gah! Passing off IW/Super issues as the original is a totally abhorrent concept with me. There should be an IW/Super category and those reprints should be scanned, labeled, and stored in that category. Passing them off as "originals" and storing them in the "wrong" category makes it appear as if we have the original making it less likely that someone will take the time to actually scan the original.

And I totally believe in full C2C scans of books. Ads can be removed by someone later. But only the person with the original paper copy can create a complete digital record of that book (including ifc, ibc, text stories, etc.).

As pointed out, advertisements were usually printed with blocks of books from a particular month. This fact can often be used to determine roughly when a book was published when the indicia offers no definitive information. I've got an Avon advertisement index that I've been building so I can try to create a publishing chronology. The Avon books that have been archived here without advertisements are basically worthless for this type of task.

Preserving the artwork is well and fine, but a more noble task is to archive the entire book for future readers and scholars. We are the monks of the digital age, toiling away with scanners and image editors instead of quill and paper. If we don't produce a complete record of a book C2C who will?

[OtherEric]

Well said, archiver.  We do label the IW books as reprints; but file them in the original sections.  More often than not we're able to find the original covers; in at least one case we turned up a missing story page by asking somebody selling the book on eBay.  Once again, this is a fine subject for discussion; what do other people think?

I'm fully in agreement with your pro cover-to-cover arguments, they do matter for research.  And as great as the pure enjoyment factor is here, that's not the only reason for the scans.

[Geo (R.I.P.)]

I to am of the c2c camp. It saves time when you've scanned an ad and you can "re-use" it and don't have to re-scan it. I been saving them just for that reason as some books are in pretty bad shape (torn, taped, missing parts of the page, water damage, etc.) at times and using one of those "scanned ads" helps immensely to replace it with.

Geo

[rez]

That's what I'm talking about.
The formation of a data base specifically for ads.

Knew some of you guys would have had to reach a conclusion that saving the ads makes sense seeing you've been at the scans a lot longer than my few months at the machine.

I to am of the c2c camp. It saves time when you've scanned an ad and you can "re-use" it and don't have to re-scan it. I been saving them just for that reason as some books are in pretty bad shape (torn, taped, missing parts of the page, water damage, etc.) at times and using one of those "scanned ads" helps immensely to replace it with.

Geo

[darwination]

Well, I just got back into the country after hours of international travel, so perhaps I'll rant a bit about the neccesity of c2c.  OK, I won't go off the deep end, but I do very much appreciate your c2c conversion, Narf, besides the selfish notion that every comic scanned c2c is a comic I won't feel the need to rescan later.

On my vacation, I checked out Michelle Nolan's recent book on romance comics (not utterly thrilling, but utterly thorough and certainly a must have for a romance nut like me), and I very much enjoyed her examination of how each company reacted to the comic code in terms of advertising in their romance comics.  I love naughty comics and hate censorship, but ol doc Wertham's heart was in the right place as far as a lot of his concerns about this new sort of media that was one of the first types of media aimed directly at children.  Another one I read recently, Comic Book Nation, points to golden age comics as sort of a starting point in the juvenilazition (sheesh, did I spell that right?) of our culture whereby media seems to be aimed at a younger audience as time marches on (far more absurd now than then, perhaps why it's so hard to find a decent flick at the cinema).  In golden age comics, we find some of the first attempts of publishers to advertise directly to children and teens in the printed media, sometimes very effectively and sometimes not so much.  As a parent of a 3 and a 5 year old, I recognize how sophisticated and effective advertisers have become in their trade and I like seeing some of the earlier efforts of advertisers to capture the minds and $$$ of American children.  While I can sympathize with the fact that scanning the same page of the miniature monkey in a cup for the hundredth time seems a bit ridiculous, I still feel it is enormously important that our library contain all of the ad pages for all of the comics because there is an enormous amount of sociological data in the ads.  Not to mention that even on an aesthetic level, art does not exist in a vacuum and should not be removed from it's economic contexts.  I find bits and pieces of golden age comics to be so profound precisely because the medium is so popular and "vulgar," I appreciate reprints but somehow the stories and art lose something outside of their original context. I guess I'm just a "junk"-lover!

Cheers,

Darwin

[narfstar]

Yes I joined the c2c group except IW. Now I am in that camp. Geez useguys. At least we have an ad compilation. I guess we need to make a file not just for IW but all the pimple poppers, etc. Coming up soon will be Gabby Hayes Western 42 it will be missing the ifc, ibc and bc because my copy is coverless. Now I am not too bright. I just realized that if my lazer printer can take a stack and print more than one page with auto feeder then it should be able to scan that way. Now I am glad I buy junk. I paid a buck for good old Gabby. I cut off the spine and put it in the auto feeder. WOW what a time saver. Considering I got the book for a buck and was the only bidder I do not think I decreased it value a whole lot, but sure saved me a lot of scanning effort.

[rez]

I cut off the spine and put it in the auto feeder.
Narf- dang that's rich!

heh heh 'Narfstar...the International Harvester of scanning!'

Good stuff!

Yes I joined the c2c group except IW. Now I am in that camp. Geez useguys. At least we have an ad compilation. I guess we need to make a file not just for IW but all the pimple poppers, etc. Coming up soon will be Gabby Hayes Western 42 it will be missing the ifc, ibc and bc because my copy is coverless. Now I am not too bright. I just realized that if my lazer printer can take a stack and print more than one page with auto feeder then it should be able to scan that way. Now I am glad I buy junk. I paid a buck for good old Gabby. I cut off the spine and put it in the auto feeder. WOW what a time saver. Considering I got the book for a buck and was the only bidder I do not think I decreased it value a whole lot, but sure saved me a lot of scanning effort.

[slinky]

I tend to agree that there's less need to bother on the IW reprints; since we generally wind up trying to present those as the originals if we can.

Eeeeeeeeeew!

I guess some people just want the stories and don't care about the source, that's their prerogative. Personally I want the actual publication accurately named (with year) and scanned c2c. Reprints can include alternative colouring, printing methods, and even contain editorial interference. If what I am getting is a reprint and not an original I want to know exactly what it is. For me that is the whole point, preservation of individual publications.

[edit] Ditto what JVJ said in post #2! 

[narfstar]

I think all of our IW reprints are marked as such.