Print

[OtherEric]

They show up on the scene too late to be relevant to this discussion, but Frank Freas and Victor Napoli both kept this in their respective bags of tricks.

I know this almost completely derails the subject, but did Kelly Freas ever do any comic book work other than one story in XXXenophile late in his career?

[JVJ]

I'll try to keep this down to pertinent points, jc,

My guess of Pulp experience over, say, advertising is due to the assumption that a company isn't going to want the mascot or model to look haunted.  I've certainly never seen the light coming from behind except in specific artsy (and decidedly modern photographic) layouts.  On the other hand, I've seen the technique used frequently (with or without a story-related reason) in the magazine material scanned on Project Gutenberg.

Perhaps I've just seen more examples, but the side-lighting with the ink lines only on the facial features doesn't look all that unusual to me. And it's hard for me to make a lot of connections from only one example of a technique. For all we know, this is the first and last time this artist took this approach.

I didn't mean any judgement beyond the literal description by "stocky."  Even the children and elderly have squarish torsos and broad shoulders.  In the era of political correctness, I guess it's become a euphemism for "fat," so I'm sorry for the confusion, there.

I understand and agree with you.

But there is also the cartoony aspect that comes through it all and, as you observe with the similarities to the Superman cover, the racial stereotypes of the day.

It looks to me, though, as if the stereotyping is being used to advantage, rather than for ignorance.  I remember reading, years back, that people can more easily identify a mildly distorted (exaggerated) picture of a face than the original, and that looks like what the artist is doing, here.  For example, if you can avoid focusing on any of the characters in the scene and take it all in at once, the faces look real.

I'm tempted to say that this suggests strong exposure to pre-photographic portrait work, either due to age (unlikely) or education.

I agree that this is shorthand stereotyping, as opposed to malicious or negative. It's well done and serves its purpose by getting the artist's message across simply and clearly.

It's strange, though.  It's obvious that there's a lot of research, here, yes.  Mitsuru Toyama's biography agrees with everything I can find.  The architecture and other dressing look about right to me and even change with the date represented.

On the other hand, there are significant details that seem to have been overlooked.  For example, in four instances of Japanese writing (the sign in panel 2.2, the handbill in 3.3, the banner in 4.4, and the scroll in 4.5), only the handbill resembles Japanese to my eye.  The sign looks Arabic, the banner isn't meant to be readable, and the scroll looks like random scribbling.  Also--and possibly more tellingly--even though the image of Tojo is extremely close, Toyama's image looks nothing like the real man; that's particularly confusing, since the story is his biography.

Does anybody know enough Japanese to check the relevant text or pseudo-text?

This is information I was not privy to and I thank you deeply for it. I second your request for anyone with experience in Japanese to help out. Perhaps I'll send it to my brother-in-law who makes his living translating legal and medical documents from Japanese to English and vice versa.

I'm mostly talking about the general composition, here.  Everything has a purpose, and nothing is exaggerated beyond its usefulness.  For example, check the Japanese man's arm in the middle panel of the last page you posted.  It's not photographic, but a photographic-style image wouldn't convey the motion, so some license was taken.  But--and this is important, in my eyes--the license taken is minimal, no more than is absolutely needed to show what's happening.  And every single figure carries this same aesthetic in their body language, even the "violent youths."

It's entirely possible that the trick was learned working on a humor strip, since you can't have frantic action without it, but then we have the literal panel composition.  We have extreme detail on the figures and anything of interest in the panel, and the rest is used for framing (including that oppressive non-sky).  Even the parallax is messed with to change the impression of depth.  Those don't seem like things you do for a humor strip.  There, when you have detail, everything is detailed (Little Nemo, for example), but normally the rule is that one or two objects get detail, and the rest are abstract.

Something else strikes me that nothing seems out of place in any frame.  I get the impression that the entire scene was drawn in one pass.  There weren't any corrections or additions, and with visuals this complicated, I'm amazed.

Me, too. That's why I find myself pursuing this guy when there are dozens (if not hundreds) of other "unknowns" out there seeking equal time.

Absolutely.  If it wasn't fun, I would've gladly left this to the people who are (clearly) better prepared than I am.  Wherever the line of reasoning leads, thanks for finding this guy!

I'd say "you're welcome" except it's becoming somewhat of a mania that I need to reel in. Thanks for joining the hunt. Your comments are perceptive.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

re your FKF postscript, no, Freas did only a few painted covers for comic books of the 50s.

[JVJ]

Also--and possibly more tellingly--even though the image of Tojo is extremely close, Toyama's image looks nothing like the real man; that's particularly confusing, since the story is his biography.

Your comments about the image of Toyama being off sent me scurrying around the web, jc.
While I've yet to turn up a photo of the young Toyama, the Wikipedia site has a photo that seems to echo very strongly the portrait in the splash. Toyama is the center figure here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsuru_Toyama
compare to:


Given the correlation of likenesses with the (then) contemporary Toyama (and with Tojo as you point out), it could be that back then there was no available reference of him as a young man. Comments?

Peace, Jim (|:{>

ps. there is a [Preview] button in the Post Reply window, but all I ever get is a "Fetching preview..." line in the Preview Post window. Is there something I don't know about?

[John C]

Your comments about the image of Toyama being off sent me scurrying around the web, jc.

Whoops!  Sorry about that.  I meant to include relevant URLs, since I caught the motherlode:

http://www.toyamamitsuru.jp/syashin/index.html

Of course, the captions are in Japanese, which doesn't help, but the Internet comes to the rescue with free tools.

http://www.appliedlanguage.com/web_translation.shtml

But the upshot is that we can see him at 25, 45, 60, 70, and 80.

Given the correlation of likenesses with the (then) contemporary Toyama (and with Tojo as you point out), it could be that back then there was no available reference of him as a young man. Comments?

I suppose it's possible, but he doesn't seem to have been reclusive prior.  However, I should amend my original statement in that the splash looks like the eighty-year-old Toyama, which is one of the pictures I neglected to look at.  He aged a lot more in those ten years (seventy to eighty) than I would've ever expected.

As to the availability of material, I don't even think I could hazard a guess.  He's not listed in the 1911 Encyclopedia Brittanica (available for download at the Internet Archive), unfortunately.  I'm also stymied in finding the obituary listed in Wikipedia, since the New York Times charges four bucks for the honor of reading a sixty-four-year-old page (since there are brief comments on two pages, that's eight bucks for about a thousand words and maybe a picture).  Google Books is also a bust, though it turns up some of Toyama's own words from 1922 regarding the Washington Conference.  Here's the relevant page.

http://books.google.com/books?id=QV6ena5_h4oC&pg=PA149&sig=ACfU3U3UsD2-bjdnmxYi8ZQpzWvofOGWeg

However, even though it's not illustrated (though I assume that it was in print), Time Magazine was more helpful with background:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765147-1,00.html

Since that was published in 1941, I'm going to guess that it's the main source of the author's information.  If it was published with pictures, then those images were almost certainly the core of the artist's research, as well.  And now that I think about it, the Times obituary is probably irrelevant--if the book has a cover date anywhere in 1944, then they didn't get any information from any October 1944 article.

Incidentally, it's interesting to compare this depiction of Toyama with his lightly fictionalized (and anonymous) counterpart in All-Star Comics #12.

ps. there is a [Preview] button in the Post Reply window, but all I ever get is a "Fetching preview..." line in the Preview Post window. Is there something I don't know about?

I know it used to do something, because I hit it accidentally a few times instead of posting, early on.  Looks dead now, though.

[JVJ]

OK, Jon, how about this?

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/8409/bcatwaryears18fs9.jpg

Sorry, DM, I missed this as it was addressed to "Jon", not me. Thanks for this. It's much more useful, albeit ultimately not very helpful as I don't even know who the artist is. NICE work. Did AC have a credit for it? I'd be tickled to know who it is.

As I said, my war years Speeds are not very solid. I jump from #11 to #23 (Oct. 42) so there's a lot of material to which I can't refer. Having said that, I may as well go through what I have and you can see if it helps you any.

#23 - Black Cat teams up with other Harvey Heroes in "Hollywood Attacked by Japs". It's credited to Arturo Cazeneuve but is actually pencilled by Pierce Rice.

#24 - (mine's coverless, so this could be wrong) Black Cat in "Nazi Uniforms", by Rice and Cazeneuve.

#30 - (another big gap) and my copy of this is missing two centerfolds which include the first five pages of the BC story. The three pages I do have involve BC in the Mid-East and on a Nazi submarine. Art is odd. I don't know who it is, but it is reminiscent of Avison, Fred Bell and Paul Reinman. How's that for a motley crew?

#32 - two cf's missing here, too, and so lacking 7 of 8 BC pages. The one page I have looks a little like Jill Elgin and involves Siberian peasants.

#33 - "A Statue of Horror" looks to be by Kurbert and Elgin.

#36 - "Doom for Traitors" looks to be mostly Kubert.

#37 - "Ouanga - Savage Rite of Death". Kurbert and some Elgin.

#38 - "Cleopatra of the Casbah" - Kubert and Elgin.

#39 - despite appearing on the cover, there is no BC in this issue.

#40 - again, on the cover but not in the mag.

#41-43 - no BC

#44 - "Suicide Ship" - Rudy Palais

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[darkmark]

Actually, on page 2, the art is credited to Cazaneuve.  It could be by Rice as well.  Since the title is "Rats in Uniform", it possibly could be "Nazi Uniforms".  Want some more pages to check it?

[JVJ]

Actually, on page 2, the art is credited to Cazaneuve.  It could be by Rice as well.  Since the title is "Rats in Uniform", it possibly could be "Nazi Uniforms".  Want some more pages to check it?

That's a puzzler, DM, as it doesn't look like ANY Cazeneuve that I've ever seen. Is it an art credit on page 2 or just a "by Cazeneuve"? And does it say Louis or Arturo? And Pierce Rice is WAY different than this. I did a prolonged study of Pierce Rice during about three years of correspondence with him and Karen and I actually visited him back in 1984. I learned how to spot him even under Bernie Krigstein inks (they actually shared a studio for a short time in the early 50s).

More pages won't help me locate the source. I looked through ALL of the Black Cat stories in the Speeds that I own and that splash panel is not among them. Sorry.  

BUT, I would very much like to see more pages to understand the Cazeneuve attribution. That is most puzzling to me.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[darkmark]

Let's try a Girl Commandos story this time, "The Devil's Sister."  Good luck!
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0il5.jpg

[darkmark]

My mistake!  It was by Al Gabrielle.  Here's the second page of the BC story:
http://img218.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcatwaryears19qd2.jpg

[JVJ]

Let's try a Girl Commandos story this time, "The Devil's Sister."  Good luck!
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0il5.jpg

Any chance you can give me all the splash panels of the stories you want sources, DM? Then I can just go through all the Speeds ONE TIME and give you whatever information I can provide. I'd like to help, but I'd like it to be as painless as possible.

Thanks. Jim (|:{>

[darkmark]

Here's the first page of a Pat Parker story:
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcatwaryears26wf7.jpg
Edit:  Hold on, this one's from Speed #19.

[darkmark]

Here's the penultimate one, a Shock Gibson story:
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcatwaryears10rp6.jpg

[darkmark]

And here's the last one, another Shock Gibson story:
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0tg0.jpg

[JVJ]

Let's try a Girl Commandos story this time, "The Devil's Sister."  Good luck!
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0il5.jpg

From Speed #33 by Elgin and Kubert

[JVJ]

Here's the first page of a Pat Parker story:
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcatwaryears26wf7.jpg

Pat Parker was the original name of Girl Commandos, so this precedes Speed #23 which has Pat Parker listed on the cover and Pat Parker in Girl Commandos on the inside. Art by Barbara Hall, another of the many unsung females of whom there are only supposed to be a few in comics.

[JVJ]

Here's the penultimate one, a Shock Gibson story:
http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bcatwaryears10rp6.jpg

I don't own a copy, but the art (by Al Bryant) places this circa issue #22, 25. Both 23 and 24 have Shock Gibson stories by him.

[JVJ]

And here's the last one, another Shock Gibson story:
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0tg0.jpg

No idea, DM. Sorry.

[darkmark]

Thanks a bunch for *all* your efforts, Jim!  Keep 'em flying!

[darkmark]

I'm also thinking that the earlier Shock Gibson story are probably from SPEED #19 or 20, as Harvey reprinted other stories from those issues.
Edit:  Just found out the Black Cat story is from SPEED #29.

[JVJ]

I'm also thinking that the earlier Shock Gibson story are probably from SPEED #19 or 20, as Harvey reprinted other stories from those issues.
Edit:  Just found out the Black Cat story is from SPEED #29.

Glad to help, DM,
as for the above guess of Speed 19 or 20, it's an excellent direction to explore. Beyond that it becomes speculation and I don't go in for that. Let me know what you turn up.

Good job on pinning down the BC story. I wish I had more Speed Comics.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[darkmark]

OK, JVJ, here's another one:
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=warsirenslibertybelles0ix4.jpg
This is from a 13-page Man In Black story by, of course, Bob Powell.  It's not from any of the four MAN IN BLACK issues or THRILL-O-RAMA #1 and I didn't find anything for it in the Keltner index.  Maybe it's from Joe Palooka?  Best of luck.

[JVJ]

Couldn't locate it, DM.
None of the filler stories in Joe Palooka were much longer than 6 pages and most were shorter. This has a mid- to late-forties feel to the style, but I don't know of any other titles in which MIB appeared. Sorry. I looked through all of my index cards but had no luck.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[JonTheScanner]

I don't know if this is relevant, but the caption (Man in Black's intro) is in the present tense so the war might still have been going on when it was written.

[darkmark]

Think you'd be any good on Fiction House, JVJ?  I have a number of Sheena and Sky Girl stories which could use sourcing.  If not, I understand.

[JVJ]

Think you'd be any good on Fiction House, JVJ?  I have a number of Sheena and Sky Girl stories which could use sourcing.  If not, I understand.

Every issue of Wings and the first 75 issues of Jumbo have been indexed by Henry Steele, Hames Ware and me on the GCD, NF. Just put the first six to eight words of the story into the search field and search on [story title] on the GCD and you should find it if it was in either of those titles. We haven't done the Sheena title, but only two of the issues were early 40s and the rest are Iger Shop pastiches. Whether we'll get to those eventually or not I don't know.

I just got the first pass info for Jungle 101-110 from Henry Steele the day before yesterday and will be reviewing his input and coordinating it with Hames' comments later this week. The project continues, albeit slowly.

Let me know if you have any success.

Peace, Jim (|:{>