[Yoc]

Thanks for sharing those great personal memories bminor.
And I too can Vividly recall my summer vacation in 1979 when I bought my first two comics of my own choice (no parents to push me towards Dell or Goldkey) and I picked Archie's Superhero Digest #2 with the SA reprints of their Radio Comics line along with Pureheart and Superteen stories...  after these I was hooked on superheros!

[John C]

That's the absolute truth.  At the time of the Silver Age, we still had a basic Christian (or Judeo-Christian) morality and that infused the books of that era.  Wish we had that now.

While I won't go quite so far as to say that it's a religious issue, because my lifetime has unfortunately seen Judeo-Christian ideals be rather decisively non-ideal, I do agree that there was...if not a reasonable morality to everything, at least a plausibly appropriate and certainly compelling code of ethics.

I mean, the modernists can argue all they want that Batman is responsible for the Joker's murders for not having killed him, but Batman had faith in rehabilitation (even if it came at the end of a knife, Doc Savage style) and believed it's simply not his right to take a life.  Whether or not I agree with the principle, I have to respect anybody (and, when fictional, their writers) who sticks by such inconvenient principles.

And from a reader's standpoint, nothing irritates me more than the "lives on the line" argument.  We KNOW the hero's going to win, because it's, y'know, his freakin' book.  Killing the bad guy or wasting time weighing which supporting cast member to save is artificial tension that only serves to make the hero look stupid.  Expedience makes for bad storytelling, once you're past the initial shock and humor value (Indiana Jones pulling his gun on the swordsman, for example).

But now we have Superman, once the paragon of niceness (except to his friends who, to be fair, usually deserved it), skulking around every comic with his demonic-red glowing eyes and getting angry at everything in an attempt to be "cool," and an ever-present escalation that "allows" the heroes to kill, just because the writers aren't smart enough to think of a better ending to a story.  And then when the fans get pissed, they find some contrived solution as to why it was OK, rather than owning up to it and having the character re-earn everybody's respect.

Hey.  Who put that soapbox there?  Someone could get hurt tripping over that thing...

[Yoc]

Dang, I stubbed my toe on that box!

I agree with John on all these points.  I think Hawkeye was an example of a fallen hero re-earning their reputation.
And isn't Marvel's Thunderbirds group based on villains changing their names to get a new start or something?
A cool premise anyways.

[narfstar]

No Yoc, Thunderbirds are Go! the Garry Anderson series. Thunderbolts are reformed criminals.
And John it is not the Judeo/Christian ideals that fail it is the human implementation that often fails.

[DOC]

Aren't The Thunderbolts now back to being evil pretending to be reformed? Yeah it's a darker world, though Final Crisis was to make DCU a somewhat kinder place and then they off J'onn J'onzz and Batman, yep sure is brighter. I do like how Savage Dragon is treating GA heroes (better than The Super-Powers).
Anyway thank gosh for a site like this.

[John C]

Yeah it's a darker world, though Final Crisis was to make DCU a somewhat kinder place and then they off J'onn J'onzz and Batman, yep sure is brighter.

I remember when "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine" was in development, they referred to the show as a "darker" incarnation of the franchise.  When they ran a series of comical episodes, someone questioned how this was "dark."

I forget who it was, but the guy joked, "oh no, we meant the lighting.  The SETS are darker."

Perhaps that's what they mean at DC.  Lois now keeps a night-light on in the bathroom, so the universe is a little bit brighter...

And John it is not the Judeo/Christian ideals that fail it is the human implementation that often fails.

You're right, and I didn't mean to come off as bashing the "silly superstitious folk who still believe in something," because that's out of line and certainly not how I feel.

Take it more in the spirit of using the term "The American Way."  Today's United States isn't holding nearly the same ideals as we did a century or two ago, and it's almost absurd to lump the two together.  That's kind of what I meant, that the values I see as important in this context are not those officially and loudly held by the prominent religious groups and people, which seem to be the sanctity of key narratives rather than relationships.  (Sadly, this also seems to be how a lot of science is conducted, but that's another story.)

[moondood]

You know, in many respects, many of the comics that I have are time capsules. Able to transport me back to a earlier more innocent time.
The stories and art are great, that is part of the equation, but when and where many of them were traded for, bought, found or given are locked away in my mind, just waiting to journeyed to again.>>>>

=================================================

Good story, thanks for that--and I so connect on that level.  Earlier, I mentioned (I think) that I've been re-reading the old Shazam series (it soooo bugs me they can't use his name on the cover--and I'm tired of folks referring to the red Captain as "Shazam").   So many panels are as familiar to me as they were when I read the issues for the tenth time--in 1980!! Ha!  But yeah, there's a kind of magic that I get sentimental about...maybe just remembering being young, I dunno.  My crack house of choice was Healy's in Wakefield, Rhode Island (still there--just 4 times bigger).  And, I too, would get on my bike and ride--gosh, I don't even know--maybe 10 miles--to visit comic-minded people nearby (one of whom is still a dear friend and the director of the wonderful Will Eisner documentary that was shown at last year's San Diego show) and to hit Healy's newsstand on Tuesdays and Thursdays when the new comics came in.  Those new comics are now about 35 years old.  One thing that strikes me as I read the old Shazam issues is that they came out 36 years ago--almost twice the number of years he was missing in the first place--20 years from 1953 to 1973.  That's just my autistic mind kicking in with math, probably.  Doesn't mean anything in particular, I guess.

And that Great Comic book Heroes book by Fieffer--someone mentioned the crude art--there was magic there, too--in 1973 or 4 when I first saw it.  Like seeing hieroglyphics that I could actually read--that was The Flash, Batman, etc....what they USED to look like.  I think only one page was devoted to Captain Marvel--but even then (before Shazam) I was hooked.  And that Spirit story--was kinda weird--but I liked it.  Thankfully, soon DC would launch Shazam and Warren the Spirit mag so I could soak up more of the greatness.

By the by--who says that anymore?  I pulled out a few gems from my meagre GA collection to share--some Master Comics and Captain Marvels--not a whole lot--but I'll be donating scans in a few days.  Though I shouldn't promise that right off--I have lots of deadlines: lettering, pre-press, writing that I have to finish for clients who need the final work ready for the San Diego show in a couple weeks.  Once things slow down, though, I want to get that stuff in the GA-UK library.

I was reminded of the DC 52-pagers and the Steranko History of comics by other posters--2 great early influences of my education/appreciation of the golden age.  If you guys don't mind another personal story--I know I like them from the other members--I was in the hospital getting my tonsils chopped out and my older cousin came to see me, bless his heart.  He knew I liked comics, so he stopped off (probably at Healy's) -- this is maybe 1974...75?--and picked up a handful.  He didn't know what I liked or read (comics is comics, right?)--so he just bought whatever.  One of the whatevers was a Jimmy Olsen--a Jack Kirby Jimmy Olsen--with the Curt Swan heads pasted in (though it was years till I knew that).  And it had a Newsboy Legion reprint--a Kirby classic, I think it said.  I fell in love with the Guardian and the Newsboy Legion.  Was it later--that the Boy Commandos reprints came out?  I'm not sure--but I saw the similarity. And I loved them both.  Soon after, I also found myself seeking out early Jimmy Olsens--a kind of guilty pleasure, I guess.  Goofy stories, but just plain fun!

I wish I had a better memory of the Steranko History--as it entered my life.  I think I bought a set--vol 1 & 2--maybe in '76 or '77 at a convention, not sure.  Don't think I bought it by mail but I was buying GA stuff by mail from Hugh O'Kennon--so it's possible.  I ate that stuff up--here were bios of the men behind the mystery men!  Behind-the-scenes stuff!  Like the Great Comic Book Heroes book (which I have never replaced), I read those volumes to pieces....literally!  Years later when I was with Image comics and crunching on a deadline with other creators in the studio, I couldn't help but think of the Steranko account of how the Torch-Sub-Mariner battle issue of Marvel Mystery was "crafted" over a weekend at someone's apartment in NY City.  I was probably the only one there who made the connection--tenuous though it was.  I always liked that story--somehow it was romantic--lettering pages in a bathtub 'cause there was no room anywhere else!    Sadly, we weren't crafting a classic.  Just another piece of drivel.  But at least I had my own workspace to letter the pages...no bathtubs for me!

I had to replace my Steranko volumes--probably around 1982-3 at Forbidden Planet in NY city where I had relocated to find comics and/or film work--and go to Film School.  The film work came first--comics work came later.  They overlapped for a time.

I still have those volumes and they came in very handy when I got into pulp mags about 10 yrs ago.  I recalled there was a chapter or two on pulps as they related to the creation of the comics field.  I dug them out and learned a lot about my new >sigh< -- hobby.  Like I needed another.

Every couple years, I pull them out and re-read the accounts of the creators and their wonderful creations.  Steranko did a remarkably wonderful job of relating the background material in an era that could still be considered "early fandom."  At least to my eyes at that time.

As always, I have to say how wonderful this site is and how glad I am to have discovered it.


Best,

Moondood

[rez]

Moondude-
When you mentioned working for Image I flashed to the past remembering a young guy from Tulsa, Okla. named Matt who had drawn the artwork on a oneshot Image comic back then named 'Airman'.

Always wondered if he ever continued on in the field or if he too ended up a one shot? Might you have any idear?
Thanks.

[bchat]

When you mentioned working for Image I flashed to the past remembering a young guy from Tulsa, Okla. named Matt who had drawn the artwork on a oneshot Image comic back then named 'Airman'.

Do you mean the Airman one-shot from Malibu [cover date Jan 1993 and it tied into their Protectors series]?  The artist on that book was Matt Reynolds.  From only looking around at a few sites, I can't find anything to indicate he did any other comic work.  Shame too, 'cause he had an interesting style.

[moondood]

Don't know of any Image Airman...Malibu was our publisher when we first started, so bchat seems to be on the right track.  It was probably a Malibu book and not an Image-Malibu book. Within a few months of Spawn #1, we were publishing as Image Comics without Malibu's involvement.


moondood
khathaway1@socal.rr.com

[rez]

That's right. bchat hit it. been a while and Malibu/Image slipped my mind. Recalling Matt Reynolds was his name. Knew him a bit and thinking he wasn't too far out of high school at the time. Gave art lessons at a competitors comicshop from where I was working at the time. Later worked at a same shop for a while.

Heard he had an offer from Malibu to come on staff but would have had to move out of state and he didn't want that.

Haven't heard anything art wise about him since.
Shame the amount of talent out in the streets lying around unharnessed.

[bminor]

Moondood
"I was in the hospital getting my tonsils chopped out and my older cousin came to see me, bless his heart.  He knew I liked comics, so he stopped off (probably at Healy's) -- this is maybe 1974...75?--and picked up a handful.  He didn't know what I liked or read (comics is comics, right?)--so he just bought whatever."

Reminds me of 1972, when I was in the hospital for a operation, 7th grade. My sister and her husband(a comic guy) came and visited me and gave me 100 DC Giant SupermanChock full of GA reprints, still have it on the shelf, been read at least a million times.

Just did a search and came up with the list of contents of the momentous issue.

http://www.dcindexes.com/giants/100page.php?choice=Superman245

Starting with good silver age story.
    * Superman: "The Team of Luthor and Brainiac" (27 pages)
      Edmond Hamilton (Writer), Curt Swan (Penciller), George Klein (Inker)
      From Superman #167, February 1964

First Kid Eternity story I ever read, I have always loved art and my first exposure to Mac Raboy!
    * Kid Eternity: (The Count) (12 pages)
      Mac Raboy (Artist)
      From Kid Eternity #3, Autumn 1946

I have always loved Gil Kane and Murphy Anderson!
    * Atom: "The Time Trap" (15 pages)
      Gardner F. Fox (Writer), Gil Kane (Penciller), Murphy Anderson (Inker)
      From Atom #3, Oct/Nov 1962

Wonderful Carmine Infantino art!
    * Super-Chief: "The Crowning of Super-Chief" (12 pages)
      Gardner F. Fox (Writer), Carmine Infantino (Artist)
      From All-Star Western #117, Feb/Mar 1961

Nice GA stuff, never have read another Air Wave story before or since!
    * Air Wave: "The Adventure of the Shooting Spooks" (7 pages)
      Murray Boltinoff (Writer), Harris Levy (Penciller), Charles Paris (Inker)
      From Detective Comics #66, August 1942

Murphy Anderson silver age! Yes!!!
    * Hawkman: "The Super-Motorized Menace" (12 pages)
      Gardner F. Fox (Writer), Murphy Anderson (Artist)
      From Mystery In Space #89, February 1964

Late GA story
    * Superman: "The Prankster's Greatest Role" (10 pages)
      William Woolfolk (Writer), Al Plastino (Artist)
      From Superman #87, February 1954

Pretty darn good issue!

[phabox]

No doubt about it those 1970's 100 Super-Specaculars were REAL goldmines when it came to then long unseen Golden-Age material thanks in most part to the good taste of editor E. Nelson Bridwell.

These books gave  quite a few post Silver-Age readers there very first look at many of the old Quality Comics heroes such as Doll Man, Black Condor, The Ray, Kid Eternity ( as previously noted) Alias The Spider, Manhunter, and of course The Phantom Lady.

And a few long forgotten DC Characters were also given an airing such as the afore mentioned Airwave and TNT.

Another good venue for obscure DC Heroes at this time was the back pages of World's Finest Comics where Robotman. Tarantula, The Ghost Patrol and the Gay/Grim Ghost to name but a few were all re-introduced to the modern audiance.

-Nigel

[narfstar]

And each time they showed it up it was an amazing treat. You just did not get them anywhere else. Each time it was a hero I had not seen before WOW. I loved getting a dose of all those characters together in Freedom Fighters when it came out.

[Astaldo711]

I can't remember the first book I got. I was always interested in the WWII era because of my dad so when I started collecting, I naturally gravitated to GA books. He would tell me about Doc Savage. I remember when I went to one of my first comic conventions, I had no idea about the values of different books. I picked up a copy of Batman #4 and thought "wow! This would be neat to have!" Then I saw the $2,000 price tag. Ouch. I remember buying a Daredevil from the late 40's and loved it. I also had Captain 3-D (had glasses but didn't look 3-D to me), Major Victory Comics and a smattering of a few other super hero books as well as the generic funny animal ones.

[narfstar]

GA funny animal books can usually be had for about a buck each on ebay unless they are special. Latter issues of long running titles are usually real cheap if you want to rebuild anything that you have fond memories of. My dad missed any wars but I was the first born son and named after my uncle who died in Korea. Korea is almost the forgotten war just sandwiched between WW2 and Vietnam. I have my uncles wallet that is water stained having been in his pocket when he died. Contains a social security card with my name on it.

[Astaldo711]

I have a great respect for all our service men / woman. My dad was army in WWII, brother in Marines, nephew in Marines, brother-in-law in Army, daughter in Navy.
There's quite a few comics from what I can remember about Korea. I think at the time, it was in everyone's mind. Strange how it became "The Forgotten War."
My deepest sympathies to you and your family.

[phabox]

During the Second World War my Grandfather was just a little to old to serve having been born in 1903 so he joined the London Fire Brigade and between 1940-45 was kept very busy indeed.

He came through it in one piece but some of his fellow Fireman were not so lucky.

-Nigel

[narfstar]

Gotta respect those who are willing to risk their lives for others. I think one reason the military is often at the top of the list is they do not have the option to just quit. I respect fire and police because they usaully do not quit. But if tomorrow they want another job or do not want to transfer they can quit. A soldier must accept the cards he is dealt. I served in the Army from 1974-8 and am considered a Vietnam era vet even though I did not have to go over. I had a hard time considering myself much of a vet until the first Gulf War. Even reservists were called up. I also found out that we very well might have gone back to war in Vietnam in 1975 and I would have had to go. No quitting allowed so I respect anyone who serves anytime anywhere because they have made themselves available. It bothered me when someone shook my hand and told me thanks for my service because I was only at Fort Hood for 4 years but now I am proud to say thank you because it could have been and I would have been.

[Astaldo711]

Thank you for your service! 
When someone joins the military, you don't know what will happen. No guarantees. Same with joining the police force. You can join in some little town that's real quiet but you never know...
That's why I think there was such an appeal for heroes in the comics in the 40's. Everyone wanted to do their part but not all could. Reading the stories, you could live vicariously through them and give it to the ol' Axis!

[narfstar]

Well Astaldo I think you have it the hardest with a child in the service. Far harder than doing it yourself.
WW II everyone was willing to sacrifce at home to aid the war effort. Tell your daughter and nephew that we appreciate em.

[Comic bloke]

Great thread, interesting to see how others were first exposed to GA comics.

Is publication of the Sunday newspaper strips in comic form classified as a GA comic?

Because the first time a comic knocked my socks off, [many years ago] was when a local publisher put out the first of 20 issues of "PRINCE VALIANT" by one of the greatest Writer/Artist's of all time, Hal Foster.

Hal was a Canadian who worked on the Tarzan series in the Sunday papers before going to King features to do his own Valiant masterpiece.[Hal would influence Burne Hogarth, Rubimor (Amilcar Ruben Moreira), Bob Lubbers, Russ Manning, Gil Kane, Mike Grell, Gray Morrow, Joe Kubert, John Buscema, and every other artist who illustrated the Ape-Man.]


Never forget that first Valiant comic, [had tremendous reproduction]  & I eventually got the whole series which was only a dent in Hal's 30 year epic.

Shattered when the local series finished, but many years later Fantagraphics came good with the entire run of Hal's masterpiece in 40 volumes, not the greatest reproduction of all time, but very thankful all the same.

Another early fav was Burne Hogarths "TARZAN" which was also published locally, [& taken from the Sunday comics page] eventually had about 30 or so issues, but like most off my favs, were unfortunately lost when moving house.

But all was not lost, as with Fantagraphics coming to the party on Valiant, NBM published the entire Hogarth series in a brilliant large hard cover series.

And I just picked up a copy yesterday of "Rick Random, Space Detective" with fantastic art work by Brit Ron Taylor, [another fav of many years ago,] from the "Super Detective Library", published by Amalgamated Press, from 1954.

Steve Holland is the ace bloke who is putting together some of the best GA & Silver Age comics to come out of Britain including his latest book, the War Libraries Index, charts the extraordinary history of Fleetway's war picture libraries.

His books are over 600 pages of first class reproduction, Steve deserves a medal.

[Rajah]

My first exposure to the Golden Age came from a book about comics history (can't remember the title unfortunately). I was researching the history of comics for a paper I was writing for a high school English class. I knew that Superman and Batman had first appeared in the 30s but hadn't thought much about it or the era that had produced them.

What really caught my attention in the book was a picture of the Justice Society. Here were all these strange characters, some of whom had the same names as modern characters I was familiar with. At first, I thought they might have been early prototype versions of the characters I knew, created as a try-out before being revamped to the current version. But then I checked the dates and saw these guys appeared many years ago and were around for quite a while before the characters I knew even existed. I was instantly fascinated.

This discovery opened my eyes to the idea of different "Ages" of comics and I really grew to love the era that served as the dawn of comics and of superheroes. The JSA remains my favorite team to this day.

[kusunoki]

I think the very first golden age stuff I ever read was probably either Superman reprints or Captain America/Namor in Fantasy Masterpieces, but the first time I recognized GA stuff as GA and loved it was when I read the Greatest Golden Age Stories Ever Told DC hardcover. Man, that thing blew me away. My early favorites were Raboy on Kid Eternity, Fine on Black Condor, Crandall on Blackhawk, and S&K on Boy Commandos. Ended up reading that thing so many times that the binding broke and the pages fell out. Still have it all as a bundle somewhere.

[rez]

Back in the mid 60s I recall seeing some old Submariner stories from somewhere and the guy threw me for a loop.

I was use to seeing superheroes as, well, superheroes and somehow Subby didn't fill that preconceived notion in a 10 year old.

Funny how that works.