[Electricmastro]

Out of curiosity, I decided to build a list of Golden Age female superheroes and this is the list so far. Feel free to point out anyone I missed:

1939 - Crimson Rider, Magician from Mars

1940 - Alice of the Winged People, Black Widow (Timely Comics), Fantomah, Headless Horseman, Invisible Scarlet O'Neil, Lady Luck, Mighty Woman, Miss X, Panther Woman, Red Tornado, Woman in Red

1941 - Black Cat, Black Widow (Holyoke Publishing), Blue Lady, Bulletgirl, Flame Girl, Girl Squadron, Hawkgirl, Kitten, Lady Fairplay, Lady Satan (Harry 'A' Chesler), Madame Strange, Margo the Magician, Miss America (Quality Comics), Miss Fury, Miss Owl, Miss Victory, Mother Hubbard, Nelvana of the Northern Lights, Pat Patriot, Phantom Lady, Ranger Girl, Rocketgirl, Silver Scorpion, Spider Queen, Super Ann, USA the Spirit of Old Glory, Wildfire, Wonder Woman

1942 - Black Angel, Girl Commandos, Liberty Belle, Lightning Girl, Mary Marvel, Se

[The Australian Panther]

Thank you, Electricmastro, for this bit of research. The Golden Age is supposed to be a sexist time of mainly male heroes but this list would seem to definitely contradict that.
The posts on this site are a treasure trove of this kind of information - not all in one place, but its worth going through old posts to find out what great tit-bits of info are within. 

Wikipedia says the Golden age is to 1956. I would personally think till, say, 1959. Anybody know what publishing event is supposed to inaugurate the Silver Age?
In any event, Batwoman and Batgirl first appeared in Detective  Comics #233 (July 1956), so you might want to include them.
Cheers! 

[positronic1]

Anybody know what publishing event is supposed to inaugurate the Silver Age?

Typically, Showcase#4 (1st appearance of Barry Allen as The Flash) is cited is as the beginning of the Silver Age, but... before him there was the Martian Manhunter in Detective Comics #225 (Nov. 1955), and before J'onn J'onzz there was Captain Comet in Strange Adventures #9 (June 1951), lasting until Strange Adventures #46 (July 1954). After that, Captain Comet didn't make another appearance until 1976, so some would argue that he sat out the Silver Age.

Personally, my rule of thumb in defining the Silver Age is that it began with the first Comics Code Authority-approved comic books (so let's just say 1955), and ended in 1972, when the CCA was revised in the wake of the Marvel-published drug storyline in Amazing Spider-Man. To me, that just makes much more sense than trying to tie the beginning (or ending) of an "Age of Comics" to the appearance (or disappearance) of some specific character because the superhero genre has always traditionally dominated the collector hobby, and that influences the thinking behind these things. Barrry Allen's first appearance in Showcase really isn't comparable to Superman's in Action Comics #1.

So if you go by the CCA as the dividing line between Ages, then I guess Martian Manhunter would be the first code-approved superhero to make his debut (all Captain Comet's stories appeared pre-Code). Except... the early MM stories weren't really traditional superhero stories as such. J'onn J'onzz didn't appear in public in costume; he worked covertly in his adopted Earthman guise of detective John Jones, so it was either a science fiction feature with a detective slant, or a detective feature with a science fiction slant, depending on how you wanted to look at it. Right in line with Detective's editorial policy at the time. Science fictional tropes were popular in the Superman titles, and it was hoped that a little injection of SF tropes might help boost sales of Batman and Detective as well. But Manhunter From Mars only became superhero-y later, after Barry Allen had sort of made superheroes respectable again.

Better not to worry about individual characters, then, and just look at something like the CCA which affected the industry broadly as a whole, even if a few publishers like Gilberton and Dell managed to remain relatively unaffected.

Harvey's Blonde Bomber and Girl Commandos are superheroes? Well, if you think so (not by my reckoning). But I don't think DC's Boy Commandos (or the Newsboy Legion) were superheroes either. To each his own, I guess. Was Pat Parker, War Nurse on the list? At least she had a costume and mask, unlike her Girl Commandos. How about Merry, Girl of 1000 Gimmicks? Or Marga the Panther Woman? The latter might sound more like a jungle girl, but she's got actual superpowers, as the result of a science experiment.

Can't always go by what sounds like it should be a superhero, though... Blonde Bomber sounds like she should be a superhero, but "ace newsreel reporter Honey Blake" had no mask, no costume, no secret identity, and no super-powers. As far as I can recall, no one in the stories actually refers to her as the Blonde Bomber, either. The initial story claims she's "an expert chemist", but she never actually makes any use of that knowledge, contrary to what you'd expect. She's not actually bombing anybody, or blowing anything up. She's pretty good with her fists, though.

[Electricmastro]

Wikipedia says the Golden age is to 1956. I would personally think till, say, 1959. Anybody know what publishing event is supposed to inaugurate the Silver Age?
In any event, Batwoman and Batgirl first appeared in Detective  Comics #233 (July 1956), so you might want to include them.
Cheers!

I decided to keep it at a 1938-1955 timeframe to keep things more separate and exact. I actually thought to include Doctor Occult's assistant Rose Psychic on the list, but after I decided to just keep it at a 1938-1955 timeframe, I ultimately didn't, as she had debuted in 1935:

[paw broon]

Excellent, Electricmastro.  I love this sort of stuff and I notice you're not simply keeping your list to American heroines. Good for you.  I love De Kat.  You might know that she re-appeared in a more adult version a few years ago in a Dutch comic. Thanks for also listing Tina.
I'll ponder your list over the weekend and hopefully add a few names.  Fingers crossed

[Electricmastro]

Anybody know what publishing event is supposed to inaugurate the Silver Age?

Harvey's Blonde Bomber and Girl Commandos are superheroes? Well, if you think so (not by my reckoning). But I don't think DC's Boy Commandos (or the Newsboy Legion) were superheroes either. To each his own, I guess. Was Pat Parker, War Nurse on the list? At least she had a costume and mask, unlike her Girl Commandos. How about Merry, Girl of 1000 Gimmicks? Or Marga the Panther Woman? The latter might sound more like a jungle girl, but she's got actual superpowers, as the result of a science experiment.

Can't always go by what sounds like it should be a superhero, though... Blonde Bomber sounds like she should be a superhero, but "ace newsreel reporter Honey Blake" had no mask, no costume, no secret identity, and no super-powers. As far as I can recall, no one in the stories actually refers to her as the Blonde Bomber, either. The initial story claims she's "an expert chemist", but she never actually makes any use of that knowledge, contrary to what you'd expect. She's not actually bombing anybody, or blowing anything up. She's pretty good with her fists, though.

I don't claim to know as an absolute fact what a superheroine is and isn't, but I was thinking something along the lines of a female that either uses an alter ego, costume, or supernatural powers (or at least extraordinary fighting skills) while fighting against criminals, though not necessarily all three. Basically, something less civilian, and instead something that lends itself to being more fantastical. That's why I hesitated to include characters such as Betty Bates, Gail Garrity, and Lois Lane, which came across to me as more civilian-esque overall even though they have helped in going up against crime.

It's also why I included Fantomah on there, even though no other jungle ladies appear on the list. Again, I don't claim to know the is and isn'ts with superheroines, but that's why forums like these can help sort out things in a more clear way. Who knows, the more people talk on here and argue towards having more names like Lois Lane on the list, the more such names may end up on it, perhaps even more than I had imagined at the start. I'm pretty flexible after all. Haha.

[SuperScrounge]

Barrry Allen's first appearance in Showcase really isn't comparable to Superman's in Action Comics #1.

To the readers, probably not, but behind the scenes it was the start of the superhero revival. Companies had tried to create new heroes (Captain Comet, J'Onn J'Onzz, Fighting American, etc.), but they really didn't spark a new outpouring of characters. Marvel tried reviving its WWII characters (Human Torch, Captain American, Namor), but it fizzled out.

However the second Flash led to the second Green Lantern, and the second Hawkman and Atom, etc. The revival of the old JSA concept as the JLA which supposedly led to the creation of the Fantastic Four, which kicked off the Marvel Age, within a few years superheroes were once again hot and it traces back to the decision to revive the Flash concept, but with new ideas.

[positronic1]

Barrry Allen's first appearance in Showcase really isn't comparable to Superman's in Action Comics #1.

To the readers, probably not, but behind the scenes it was the start of the superhero revival. Companies had tried to create new heroes (Captain Comet, J'Onn J'Onzz, Fighting American, etc.), but they really didn't spark a new outpouring of characters. Marvel tried reviving its WWII characters (Human Torch, Captain American, Namor), but it fizzled out.

Yeah, but Showcase #4 is only "the start" in hindsight. You didn't really start getting an accumulation of new superheroes until about 1959, but of course Julius Schwartz was the point man, with his science-fictional type of thinking sort of defining the difference in the new era of superheroes. Also, the "fizzle" in superheroes between Marvel's Sub-Mariner #42 (Oct. 1955) and Fantastic Four #1 (Nov. 1961) is a gap of 6 years... while the gap between Showcase #4 (Oct. 1956) and Justice League of America #1 (Nov. 1960) -- which really seems like the first concrete evidence that DC's Silver Age of superheroes had arrived and was here to stay -- is 4 years, so not that great a difference between the two companies. I guess the main point to be made there is that Marvel was, and had always been, a follower of trends, rather than a instigator of those trends like DC -- but in this instance, the Lee/Kirby approach to ignoring all the 'usual rules' about superheroes resulted in a major stylistic innovation that was, in itself, greater than any revival of superheroes Julius Schwartz could mount, even if it would not have come into existence except as a reaction to that revival.

What I was actually trying to get at there is, if you're defining ages by characters, then you're really only talking about a single genre -- superheroes -- and really, more than anything, about 2 main companies, Marvel and DC. So if someone pulls out an issue of say, Betty and Veronica or Donald Duck or EC's Piracy, from the mid-1950s and asks you whether it's a Golden Age or Silver Age comic, it's really pretty useless to look at the cover date and try to determine whether that comic appeared on newsstands before or after Showcase #4. There's no universal agreement that can be enforced regarding an individual's opinion of what constitutes or defines a Golden Age or Silver Age comic (and to still someone else, it's "neither, it's Atomic Age"), but looking at whether or not the comic has a CCA seal on it DOES constitute something that's real and actual, and not a matter of someone's opinion. While that still doesn't mean much in terms of a Dell or Gilberton comic, for the rest of the comic publishing industry as a whole it represented a major defining shift, which affected the average overall content tremendously -- in fact, the revival of superheroes as a genre is a direct result of the CCA more than any other factor. Same goes for the CCA revision in 1972 -- all of a sudden, horror comics were back, and new genres like barbarian fantasy comics, blaxploitation comics, and kung-fu comics were offering alternatives to the usual superhero fare. I wonder whether Marvel would have taken the plunge into b&w magazine-sized formats eschewing superheroes had it not been for code revision, either -- in general it seems like the loosening of the CCA's former chokehold on content allowed for a greater creative freedom which a new generation of up-and-coming creators was eager to exploit.

Of course, all of the foregoing applies only to American comic books, not those published in other countries. England, France, Italy, Germany, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, and Japan would have to define their own landmarks for whatever "Ages of Comics" might be applicable to their own unique publication histories.

[The Australian Panther]

Interesting stuff. Yes, Scounge, I think that in general (and I had forgotten) that the Silver Age is generally considered to start with the Barry Allen Flash. And yes Positoronic, there were changes in more than just Superhero books, but lets fact it from then until now, Superheros totally dominated. But if Batwomon and Batgirl weren't Golden Age or Silver age, what were they? And there were others.
So what happened then to cause a comic book revival?. Well TV changed everything. Dell and Gold Key tried to do comic versions of TV shows as did DC, but that didn't last. Most people didn't want to read while they could watch. The one thing TV couldn't do well was illustrate the fantastic. Not so now. So Westerns and Crime Shows were the prerogative of TV, and Fantasy and Superheroes were the stuff of comic books. But I think the key is the audience, and Stan Lee saw that early. Comics were, in the 60's, not just read by younger children but by Teenagers and young adults often of high school or Unii age and even by men and women in professions. I know from personal experience that the Rise of the Rock explosion in the 60s was not unrelated to comics. Many musicians read comics and there were album covers done by comics professionals. There was a cultural world change then and comics were part of it. Stan Lee was canny when he included the Beatles in a Human Torch story. Also,that's where and when the first generation of 'professional' fandom came into existence that had an actual interaction with the comics companies. And conventions started.
Also, it has often occurred to me that the creators that had held on through the bad years (because they had some degree of passion) were older and more mature and therefore, in the Silver Age, they created in general more mature work. This in turn appealed to more mature fans. By that time also, to the average reader in the 60's, the Wertham controversy was a thing in the distant past. However, Positronic, you have a point, in acknowledging the part that the CCA played. It helped get comics back on stands in the late 50's and helped dispel parental fears about comics. And creatively, working within restrictions is not necessarily a bad thing.
Cheers!

[positronic1]

But if Batwomon and Batgirl weren't Golden Age or Silver age, what were they?

This one is very easy to address, since the characters were published by DC, and they were superhero characters -- just look at the cover date of the first appearance of Batwoman, and the Oct. 1956 appearance of Showcase #4. Even if the first appearance of Batwoman pre-dated that, the bulk of her appearances (this applies to J'onn J'onzz as well) were on the shady side of the Showcase #4 demarcation line. Apart from the few continuing superhero characters that span an unbroken run from the Golden and Silver Ages of DC (Superman/Superboy, Batman & Robin, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Green Arrow & Speedy) the DC evolution of superheroes is pretty straightforward. Whatever was going on with other characters and other companies doesn't really matter if the only thing you're comparing is DC superheroes. If you're still doubtful, recall that Batwoman and Batgirl DID make a few appearances in DC Bronze Age comics set in the Earth-1 pre-Crisis universe, while Batwoman did NOT appear in any Silver or Bronze Age Earth-2 stories.

Actually, I can make this even simpler for you. DC apparently decided, editorially, that any characters introduced after the cancellation of the JSA in All Star Comics (in 1950) belong to the Silver/Bronze Age Earth-1 (JLA) DCU. This includes, but is not limited to: Captain Comet, Martian Manhunter, King Faraday, Suicide Squad, Roy Raymond, Phantom Stranger, Rex the Wonder Dog, Detective Chimp, Congorilla, et. al. It also includes a couple of pretty obvious anomolies: the Blackhawks and Plastic Man, both of which were inherited from Quality Comics -- but NOT, oddly enough, Doll Man, whose publication history (at Quality) outlasted the JSA in All Star. Another big anomaly is the fact that Johnny Quick (first appearance: More Fun Comics #71, Sept. 1941) exists in the Earth-2 DCU, while Aquaman and Green Arrow, characters who debuted in the same title only two months later, exist in the Earth-1 DCU.

[positronic1]

Actually, now that I think about it, I begin to realize why someone (I don't know exactly who) decided to coin the term "Atomic Age" to refer to all (non-DC) American comics published from 1950 to 1959, neatly side-stepping those sticky questions about when exactly the Golden Age of comics ended, and the Silver Age of comics began. Even currently, IDW/Library of American Comics uses the term "Atomic Age" to refer to its reprint collections of Superman newspaper comic strips from the 1950s, and to distinguish those from reprints of the "Golden Age" Superman newspaper strips of the 1940s. IDW's "Silver Age" Superman newspaper strip reprints begin with the year 1959 (obviously the determination was made based on how many pages of strips it took to make up a single volume of reprinted strips). With newspaper strips, by and large, there are no real clear landmarks separating any "Ages" of comic strips. Flash Gordon has one -- the point at which Dan Barry revived the long-abandoned daily FG strip. That's Flash Gordon's analog to DC's rebooted Silver Age version of The Flash, distinguishable in many ways from the Alex Raymond Sunday version of the 1930s & 1940s (which was later continued in a close approximation of his style by Austin Briggs and Mac Raboy, appearing on Sundays only until 1967, when Barry took over and made it over in the style of the daily continuity).

For DC comic books, however, it's clear that most of their comics published after the cancellation of All Star Comics in 1950 are considered to be "Silver Age". I say "most" because the sticky question still applies to Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman, at least to some extent. When did Superman stop being "the Golden Age Superman" and start being "the Silver Age Superman"? Well there is a sort of answer to that question, or rather two answers. One is that "Silver Age Superman" begins with the publication of Superman's Pal, JIMMY OLSEN #1 (Oct-Nov 1954). The other is that "Silver Age Superman" begins with the interjection of those now-familiar SF elements that were established during the editorial reign of Mort Weisinger -- Superman's arctic Fortress of Solitude, space villain Brainiac, new varieties of Kryptonite, and cousin Kara Zor-El (Supergirl). So that begins, at its latest, with ACTION COMICS #241 (June 1958), "The Super-Key to Fort Superman!". Brainiac first appeared in the following month's issue. Superboy (first introduced in More Fun Comics in 1945) might appear to be an anomaly if those stories were taking place in the past (of 1945) -- BUT it's equally possible to view those stories as taking place IN 1945, since no specific dates are ever referenced. The "Silver Age Superman" of the late 1950s could easily be said to have had adventures as a boy taking place in 1945!

With Wonder Woman, it's during editor Robert Kanigher's reign, usually identified as beginning at the point where Queen Hippolyta was first depicted as a blonde, rather than with black hair as was traditional during the Golden Age (also, the original spelling of her name was Hippolyte) -- but certainly by the time of the first appearances of stories depicting Wonder Woman's past adventures as Wonder Girl and Wonder Tot.

With Batman -- well, why not the first appearance of Batwoman? That seems a good enough landmark to establish a distinguishing difference.

[Electricmastro]

Anyway, an especially interesting Golden Age heroine I recently found out about, the Headless Horseman from 1940.

[positronic1]

Anyway, an especially interesting Golden Age heroine I recently found out about, the Headless Horseman from 1940.

It does say "HE spurs HIS black pony over the trails of crime", so I'm not sure how it's an "interesting Golden Age heroine" ... especially since it would appear to be a villain (yeah, I don't see any breasts on that headless rider). There's no point in showing us that page if you're not going to explain your statement which seems ridiculous on the face of it.

[Electricmastro]

Anyway, an especially interesting Golden Age heroine I recently found out about, the Headless Horseman from 1940.

It does say "HE spurs HIS black pony over the trails of crime", so I'm not sure how it's an "interesting Golden Age heroine" ... especially since it would appear to be a villain (yeah, I don't see any breasts on that headless rider). There's no point in showing us that page if you're not going to explain your statement which seems ridiculous on the face of it.

[The Australian Panther]

Crazy and Clever idea. How does she see, tho? Buttonholes? You have the makings of a book here. Craig Yoe, are you out there?      

[paw broon]

Reading your list again I notice you have La Antorcha.  For anyone who might be interested, she appeared in the Spanish pulp magazine, El Encapuchado.  Have a look,
https://elrincondeltaradete.blogspot.com/2015/03/el-encapuchado-por-guillermo-lopez.html

I don't think she ever appeared in the comic book version but if someone knows different, please let us know.

[Electricmastro]

Crazy and Clever idea. How does she see, tho? Buttonholes? You have the makings of a book here. Craig Yoe, are you out there?    

Martin Filchock gave this explanation in The Headless Horseman Rides Again:

[paw broon]

Don't forget Lady Fantax.  Or, La Dama Di Picche

[Electricmastro]

Don't forget Lady Fantax.  Or, La Dama Di Picche

Thanks. Also found out about Miss Devil (aka Miss Diavolo) in the process while looking for specifics:

[The Australian Panther]

From the land of OZ down under there was Petr Champman's 'The  Vampire' - recently reprinted by FREW in their GiantSize Phantom #6 

https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire

I hope when you get a full list that you repost the list.

[Electricmastro]

Interesting stuff. Yes, Scounge, I think that in general (and I had forgotten) that the Silver Age is generally considered to start with the Barry Allen Flash. And yes Positoronic, there were changes in more than just Superhero books, but lets fact it from then until now, Superheros totally dominated. But if Batwomon and Batgirl weren't Golden Age or Silver age, what were they? And there were others.
So what happened then to cause a comic book revival?. Well TV changed everything. Dell and Gold Key tried to do comic versions of TV shows as did DC, but that didn't last. Most people didn't want to read while they could watch. The one thing TV couldn't do well was illustrate the fantastic. Not so now. So Westerns and Crime Shows were the prerogative of TV, and Fantasy and Superheroes were the stuff of comic books. But I think the key is the audience, and Stan Lee saw that early. Comics were, in the 60's, not just read by younger children but by Teenagers and young adults often of high school or Unii age and even by men and women in professions. I know from personal experience that the Rise of the Rock explosion in the 60s was not unrelated to comics. Many musicians read comics and there were album covers done by comics professionals. There was a cultural world change then and comics were part of it. Stan Lee was canny when he included the Beatles in a Human Torch story. Also,that's where and when the first generation of 'professional' fandom came into existence that had an actual interaction with the comics companies. And conventions started.
Also, it has often occurred to me that the creators that had held on through the bad years (because they had some degree of passion) were older and more mature and therefore, in the Silver Age, they created in general more mature work. This in turn appealed to more mature fans. By that time also, to the average reader in the 60's, the Wertham controversy was a thing in the distant past. However, Positronic, you have a point, in acknowledging the part that the CCA played. It helped get comics back on stands in the late 50's and helped dispel parental fears about comics. And creatively, working within restrictions is not necessarily a bad thing.
Cheers!

For what it's worth, when Acrobat as Captain America battled the Human Torch in Strange Tales #114 (November 1963), it showcased a cover which implied Captain America's past appearances (1941-1954) as being part of "The Golden Age of Comics," which may help divide the ages more assuredly.



There's also this message from Justice League of America #42 (February 1966).

[Electricmastro]

Updated the list, removing some characters and renaming Owl Girl to Miss Owl.

[Robb_K]

What about MLJ's Super Duck, Timely's Super Rabbit, Fox's Cosmo Cat, E.C.'s Freddy Firefly(Human Torch clone), Orbit's Wiggles Worm and Upan Atom, Magazine Enterprises' The Atom, Super Mouse, Mighty Mouse, Atomic Mouse, Atomic Rabbit, Superkatt, and Star/Farrell's Super Cat?

Of course, these funny animal superheroes were ALL male characters, so they don't apply to this thread.  But, I think it is interesting that there were NO female funny animal superheroes, at least probably until the "underground era" of the 1970s.

[The Australian Panther]

Hey Electridmastro,

can you tell me how to get an image on a post! For the life of me I can't do it!

Cheers!

[Robb_K]

Hey Electridmastro,

can you tell me how to get an image on a post! For the life of me I can't do it!

Cheers!

According to the help instructions, you should click on the "attachments" prompt, and then on the browse button, to find the image on your computer.  Then, you choose the image clicking on open.  However, your images must be 128 kb or under, and you can upload up to 4 images.  But the total of all images, taken together, must be no more than 192 kb.

I don't know why the image tool doesn't work.


I succeeded in uploading my image, but the Attachments tool shrunk and cropped my image drastically, to get the total kilobytes down below 129. 

Clearly, I have to find a way to compress the file size down while still keeping the image size big enough to view decently.  My last attachment is very near the 128 kb limit (124 kb), and yet, it has been shrunk down to a thumbnail.  How can we upload a full page large enough to be readable?  You CAN click on my thumbnail and it expands to a decent size.  But Electricmastro uploaded a decent size directly.