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[InsertMedia]

Hello.

I'm currently working on my masters thesis on comic books, authenticity and materiality

[narfstar]

This is a great place to get involved. What exactly are you wanting to know?

[InsertMedia]

Well, I'm specifically interested in the idea of the "authentic work of art" in the digital age. I think that digital translations of physical media install a new authentic ideal into the old physical items, even though they are mass produced consumer goods. They get this new aura from all the love the fans and subcultures give to them.

So, I'm interested in why anyone likes comics, but also the rituals we participate in as a subculture. So, for instance, Wednesdays are a big deal to comic fans into contemporary comics... they all head to the comic store to get their weekly pulls. Conventions are another interesting place in this regard.

What are some of the rituals you guys go through as part of your subculture of Golden Age Comics?

[boox909]

I have family matters occurring at the moment, but later next week the winds will have died down a bit and I can correspond with you, if you like, about the issues you are investigating.

I sent you a private message with a few details. Looking forward to chatting with you.

B.

[John C]

Something you may want to consider outside the "culture" (which, I guess, being part of it, I don't really think it exists...) is that, until fairly recently, comic books were considered disposable.  You got them cheap, and then you passed them on or threw them out.  While a lot of us still sit on our hoard of legally-acquired downloads for various reasons, that they're digital makes them disposable again, in a way.

That fell by the wayside when companies smelled the dedicated fans coming and turned a lot of us into "collectors," but the downloads are easily discarded if you don't have the drive space or don't care to look at the book again, for whatever reason.

[InsertMedia]

John C:
I think the issue of disposability is interesting. Are comics less disposable now? I suppose they have cultural vale, but outside of a few examples from the gold and silver age, comics are so overproduced that they really don't have long-term vale anymore. Or do they? I mean, people keep them, but do they have value? (I'm not saying they don't, just playing devil's advocate here.)

I agree totally though, that digitally makes works of art totally disposable

[narfstar]

With few exceptions comics are pretty well expendable. Just check how fast they end up in bargain bins. Check the prices on ebay new stuff is lucky to go for a quarter. Now the print runs these days are very low. So 50 years from now something may become a collectible classic. I do however think that there are still a lot of people putting every comic in bag and board and storing it away. So they very well may always be readily available. Current comics may be hot for awhile. There may be a book that hits big and everybody goes after it running the price up. The fads usually do not last and then those that paid big bucks for a book end up with another quarter bin item.

[Astaldo711]

It's reasons like these that I LIKE digital comics. I bought the Marvel DVD's; Fantastic Four, Hulk, X-Men, Captain America, Avengers, & Spider Man for about $50 each. It seemed like a lot at the time but each one is a run from the first issue to somewhere between '04 and '06. If I were to buy them, even in poor condition it would still be in the tens of thousands of dollars not to mention space limitation. While I consider myself a collector, I collect to read and re-read them. I have never bought a comic because I thought it would increase in value. I always loved the golden age but was only ever able to afford a very few and those were in pretty poor condition. They were readable so I was happy. I had a friend that bought about 50 copies of Ms. Tree when it first came out. He sealed them and never read them. A few years ago I looked at the price out of curiosity and I think it was somewhere around $1.50.
When I was actively collecting, in the mid eighties, the Wolverine mini series came out and I bought all of them. Because I like Wolverine. Had nothing to do with any potential in increase of value as a collectible. Now conversely, when Frank Miller's Dark Knight came out, I never bought one. I looked though it at the comic store but didn't like the art and it just didn't hold my interest. I was told it was going to be huge and gain in value. I didn't care. To me, if you collect just to hope something increases in value it's a gamble like the stock market. If you buy books because you like them and want to read them and it happens to go up in price it's a win-win.
Of course, I never wanted to sell any of my comics no matter what. I enjoyed reading them to much. I derived as much enjoyment as my Hulk #180 as my 'Mazing Man #1.
Sad to say, I eventually had to sell them all - I was living at home and needed money for a car, insurance and to help my folks with the bills. Now I have a few thousand on my hard drive I can read almost any time I want (except when wife is doing bills or working from home) and they take up no room. It helps that my new computer has a 1TB hard drive.
Of course, nothing really beats holding the comic in your hands, smelling the ink, or that "old" smell from the older books. At least with digital books you don't have to worry about them getting torn, dirty, or eaten by your dog.

[bchat]

Between TPBs & the internet, I feel that the collectibility aspect of comic books may fall by the wayside to a certain extent in as much as I don't think, in the future, you'll see a comic that's only a month or two old shoot-up in price because it's "hot".  The internet opens-up the world to the "small press creator" in that they don't have to rely on the comic shops to reach potential readers.  The person that wants to check-out the latest "hot storyline" just has to learn patience until the trade comes out or ALL publishers utilize the internet to sell digital comics to readers who missed the boat.  Physical copies of any given comic may, one day, become nothing more than a convenience for the fan who likes to read in bed late at night or the person that wants something to help pass the time when nature calls.  People are growing-up in a "digital world", so it's possible that, in the not-too-distant future, for a story that everybody wants to read, downloading may be the only option available if the creator has no love for paper comics.  On the flip side, though, original artwork for these "may-not-ever-happen digital-only comics" may end-up seeing obscene prices, because there would be no other physical copy of the work beyond what the artist drew.

As for Golden Age & Silver Age books, I don't feel that the "Digital Age" will affect their value all that much.  In fact, I think sites like this one help create a renewed awareness & appreciation of the material, because if no one has ever seen the stories within "Jungle Comics #1", what reason would they have to spend money on getting it?  "Because it's old" isn't really a reason to spend money on something.  Even for stuff from the 70s & 80s up to today's books, I think there's always going to be people who will want those books in their collection, and will pay whatever they feel is reasonable to get them.  The older books will still have a monetary value (based on supply, demand & condition) regardless of how many times they've been reprinted.

[John C]

It's possible that the "collector culture" has gone away.  It's been quite a few years since I've walked into a comic shop or spoken with other readers.  But last time I checked, the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that the prices were so high that you might as well spend the extra few cents per issue to bag and board them, in CASE they were worth selling later.

It wasn't something I enjoyed, which...well, that's probably part of the reason I haven't viisited any comic shops, actually.  Those were, I guess, the aftershocks of the speculator bubble, which I also was never able to really appreciate.  Why would I buy something with the intent of wasting time and effort to sell later...?

[narfstar]

I bought the first 6 issues of Cerebus from the original seller/creator? because it looked interesting. It was but did not seem sustainable humor to me. When the Cerebus boom hit I sold mine for a good profit and probably more than they are currently worth. I did buy a few with intent to sell. I remember telling my brother to buy a copy of Devil Dinosaur because it was a first issue Kirby it had to go way up eventually. Has anyone ever heard of a comic called Jason Monarch? http://www.comics.org/series/12528/covers/  I bought ten copies 

[John C]

I bought ten copies 

So...spill.

Was the first issue, in fact, fantastic?

And, y'know, does it have a valid copyright notice...?

[narfstar]

1979 so does it need a valid copyright? I still have most of my copies. Nothing special

[Astaldo711]

Never heard of that one Narf. I remember going to conventions years ago and I'd love finding all the independent comics. They always had tag lines like "Collector's item! First Issue!" and blurbs of that nature. I remember a slew of martial arts animals on the market when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles was big. It seems like the independents I liked weren't the ones I was "told" I was supposed to like. Megaton Man, The Badger, Groo The Wanderer, 'Mazing Man and some black and white one I can't remember the name of. It was poorly drawn and not much of a story. I vaguely remember it had something to do with mutants and was pretty gory.
One source I had for discovering new comics was the used book store I'd go to. They sold bound piles of comics, 100 and coverless for $10. They had a good selection of old books but the "collectors" ones - expensive, behind the counter in bags, etc. were ones I never bought. I remember I had some money and there was an old Spiderman I wanted to buy. He gave it to me in the bag but wouldn't allow me to take it out and examine it. I was never one to be fastidious when it came to the condition of the book, but I wanted to make sure it wouldn't fall apart on me. Needless to say, I never bought one of the behind the counter gems from them. 

[John C]

1979 so does it need a valid copyright? I still have most of my copies. Nothing special

I was mostly joking about the late '70s "computer" type insisting that it's a "Fantastic First Issue," rather than assuming it was the intended magic.

But yeah, copyright statements are required until 1989.  So if any indy crapola (or gems, for that matter) don't have a valid notice ("Copyright 1983 XYZ Publishing," or the Copr. and circled-c variants), then you--yes, you, as well as everybody else in the United States--own the publishing rights...

One source I had for discovering new comics was the used book store I'd go to. They sold bound piles of comics, 100 and coverless for $10.

I never had anything that compact or organized, but I did pretty much the same thing when I was in junior high school.  There was an indoor flea market that had a used book stall, and they recycled their incoming comics (which they paid a flat couple of cents for) by selling them for ten or fifteen cents apiece.  I got a fair number of semi-early JLA issues, that way.