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[Captain Audio]

It seems to me that recent findings, best theory, etc, would point to our level of existence being very much in line with the hypothesis of ancient natural philosophy.

Dark Matter does not interact with common matter directly, theres some crossover of gravity effect, but dark matter could pass through you without disrupting tissues.

I wonder if the patterns that form individual minds might leave a semi permanent trace in dark matter. A trace basically un effected by passage of time as we know it.


Some years back an experiment was run by having volunteers around the planet thinking the same thing at the same time, to see if the cumlative effect could be sensed in some way. I don't know the details.
I have long had the notion that thought being nearly immaterial, as a pattern imposed on substance rather than the substance itself, might transend time and be picked up by sensitive minds far in the past. The more people experiancing the same phenomena at the same time the further back the message would go, and the more clearly it could be perceived.

I own a small piece of land in the mountains which has several spots which seem to generate a field that affects the minds of those who stand there. Its long been considered haunted of course, and with very good reasons considering the local history.
I visited there years ago and stumbled on one such spot. I checked with the local minister and he said that as a child he had wandered onto the property and felt the same forces at work, which was why he had become a minister.

there are deep caverns under the property, and these correspond to legendary portal to another dimension.
Local indian mythology speaks of invisible warriors that enter our world by way of these portals, and a great battle between benevolent spirit warriors and huge winged intelligent carnivores that had feasted on the children. The spirit warriors blasted the winged ones with weapons of lightning.

Makes you wonder.

Other myths speak of disembodied voices warning the indians to stay inside while the spirit warriors performed various deeds, such as raising whole villages into the sky to preserve them from earthquakes or other disasters.

[skybandit]

   

I checked with the local minister and he said that as a child he had wandered onto the property and felt the same forces at work, which was why he had become a minister.

   
   The title of this thread is misleading.   

[narfstar]

I would not call the title misleading for stating a fact. The non-religous aspect of magnetic or whatever forces is the point. His perception of those forces was his.

[Captain Audio]

I would not call the title misleading for stating a fact. The non-religous aspect of magnetic or whatever forces is the point. His perception of those forces was his.

Thats the way I see it. Its pretty much a given that any powerful phenomena a back country child  can't understand would end up striking a religious cord. But a different observer would likely take something else from it.

Could be that whatever such fields are composed of would excite the electrical activity of the brain, and basically thats what we, are a pattern of electrical activity.

Some might fill in the gaps with images that they are predisposed to , ghosts , demons, etc, while others might see something else entirely, a glimpse of some undiscovered country.

To expand on this a bit.
Considering the tremendous forces at work in our environment its a bit odd that the tiny and weak electrical forces at work in the human brains aren't overwhelmed and disrupted, preventing the mind from remaining intact.

Also from what I've run across in recent years it appears that self awareness may be due to our minds operating on a base three trinary code, as opposed to the common base two binary coding of computer programs.
Some Trinary computers have been built, and there are methods that allow trinary to be used with conventional computers. These are being explored as the route to a true artificial intelligence.

As a side issue the rejection of what has always been looked upon as superstition or myth may blind the researchers to a very real connection between the physical and non physical elements of our world.

[Komandi]

While I don't believe the supernatural exists within our universe, it may be fact for the universe that exists two-down and seven-to-the-left of ours. 



Regarding dark matter:  It appears that gravity is the only force able to cross dimensional boundaries.  Theoretically, it's strongest when the number of 'directions' for a particular dimension is lowest.  In other words, gravity is strongest in a single-dimensional realm (where things exist as gravity-crushed singularities) as opposed to a multiple-dimensional realm where things are free to move about in directions above and beyond a singularity. 

[Captain Audio]

I just ran upon this quote from Lord Kelvin

"...Space is continuously occupied by an incompressible frictionless fluid acted on by no force, and that material phenomena of every kind depend solely on motions created in the fluid." [trSE, vol. 25, 1869, pg. 217-260, "On Vortex Motion"]

Not an exact description of Dark Matter but comes fairly close. The oldtimers may have been on to something.

I have seen simulations of Brownian motion in Dark Matter.

Theres an old saying "Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from Magic". Could be that as our understanding of the physical universe becomes more advanced much taken as the supernatural will become the natural once it has been properly explained.

[narfstar]

Or vica-versa

[Captain Audio]

Another old saying, "miracles are not contrary to nature, they are only contrary to that which we know of nature".

[BobS]

I would not call the title misleading for stating a fact. The non-religous aspect of magnetic or whatever forces is the point. His perception of those forces was his.

Is consciousness chemical?
Or electro-magnetic?

Material / MEAT world is world where living beings must kill and eat other living beings in order to continue to live.
Even plants compete for habitat / space and where one life-form possesses habitat, other life-forms have no space to live.

Maybe some aspact of consciousness, spirit, will, self is non-material.

We are spirits in the material world?

Bob the speculator

[BobS]

My mother-in-law and some of her friends are spiritualists.

(She  'converted' to Lutheranism when my son with to Lutheran grade school.)

My wife and I visited a spiritualist church when we visited a spiritualist copy in NJ.

One of the psychics got this message for me from the other side:
"Tighten your belt."

I listen and observe but haven't drawn much of a conclusion as to what I believe about 'imponderables' a.k.a. the Great Mysteries.

Peace (with justice), happiness, and good health to all!
Bob

[Captain Audio]

Is consciousness chemical?
Or electro-magnetic?

The Chemical processes in the cell free up Ions, Electrons, and Protons to supply energy for life. Without these electrical discharges no life could exist much less intelligence.
When electrical activity in the cell ceases the body and brain are dead. The only further chemical activity is decomposition.

[BobS]

Is consciousness chemical?
Or electro-magnetic?

The Chemical processes in the cell free up Ions, Electrons, and Protons to supply energy for life. Without these electrical discharges no life could exist much less intelligence.
When electrical activity in the cell ceases the body and brain are dead. The only further chemical activity is decomposition.

I still have a hard time getting from electricity to consciousness.

I saw a picture of the earth once where I could make out a sort of dragon-shape in clouds. Do you think there could be a gas life form?

Bob

[Captain Audio]

Is consciousness chemical?
Or electro-magnetic?

The Chemical processes in the cell free up Ions, Electrons, and Protons to supply energy for life. Without these electrical discharges no life could exist much less intelligence.
When electrical activity in the cell ceases the body and brain are dead. The only further chemical activity is decomposition.

I still have a hard time getting from electricity to consciousness.

I saw a picture of the earth once where I could make out a sort of dragon-shape in clouds. Do you think there could be a gas life form?

Bob

Brain activity is already measured by its electrical activity.

[BobS]

Is consciousness chemical?
Or electro-magnetic?

The Chemical processes in the cell free up Ions, Electrons, and Protons to supply energy for life. Without these electrical discharges no life could exist much less intelligence.
When electrical activity in the cell ceases the body and brain are dead. The only further chemical activity is decomposition.

I still have a hard time getting from electricity to consciousness.

I saw a picture of the earth once where I could make out a sort of dragon-shape in clouds. Do you think there could be a gas life form?

Bob

Brain activity is already measured by its electrical activity.

Is the electrical activity the meat mechanism of muscle movement, etc.?
I can see electrical activity as moving muscles, etc.
i still can't see electricity as the WILL that tells the brain to move muscles, etc.

Bob

[narfstar]

Which is why I believe in the God given soul as the person

Is the electrical activity the meat mechanism of muscle movement, etc.?
I can see electrical activity as moving muscles, etc.
i still can't see electricity as the WILL that tells the brain to move muscles, etc.

[Captain Audio]

Which is why I believe in the God given soul as the person

Is the electrical activity the meat mechanism of muscle movement, etc.?
I can see electrical activity as moving muscles, etc.
i still can't see electricity as the WILL that tells the brain to move muscles, etc.

The Soul is defined as the actuating causation of the individual life.
It was once believed to be a material object, then believed to be an immaterial force. The later would be my best guess, a force of virtual particals without mass and relatively uneffected by time, space, or velocity as we know them. Not subject to aging or loss of substance.

[narfstar]

DIVINE!!

[Captain Audio]

DIVINE!!

Yep, when you are dealing with exotic matter and virtual particles one can be three and three can be one as easily as one and one make two in the perceiveable physical world.

They now except that the Universe had a begining and will have an end, and that our time space began with that begining, so something outside our space time must have created our Universe.

[BobS]

I just ran upon this quote from Lord Kelvin

"...Space is continuously occupied by an incompressible frictionless fluid acted on by no force, and that material phenomena of every kind depend solely on motions created in the fluid." [trSE, vol. 25, 1869, pg. 217-260, "On Vortex Motion"]

Not an exact description of Dark Matter but comes fairly close. The oldtimers may have been on to something.

I have seen simulations of Brownian motion in Dark Matter.

Theres an old saying "Technology sufficiently advanced is indistinguishable from Magic". Could be that as our understanding of the physical universe becomes more advanced much taken as the supernatural will become the natural once it has been properly explained.

Arthur Clarke, right?
Bob

[BobS]

DIVINE!!

Yep, when you are dealing with exotic matter and virtual particles one can be three and three can be one as easily as one and one make two in the perceiveable physical world.

They now except that the Universe had a begining and will have an end, and that our time space began with that begining, so something outside our space time must have created our Universe.

Don't physicists say that whether the universe will have Big Implosion depends on how much dark matter there is? Otherwise doesn't the universe (theoretically) keep expanding?

Physicists don't say that "something outside our space time must have created our Universe" either, do they?

Postulating God as initiating the Big Bang is religion, not science.

Untestable conjecture = not science. Science has its limitations.

Maybe Will did initiate the Big Bang tho.

I doubt that Will is material.

Bob