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Worst Golden Age Artist?

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topic icon Author Topic: Worst Golden Age Artist?  (Read 6566 times)

DennyWilson

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Worst Golden Age Artist?
« on: March 31, 2010, 12:45:35 AM »

Who is the worst artist of the golden age? or for unknown artist,comic with the worst art?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 12:53:51 AM by DennyWilson »
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JVJ

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2010, 01:05:30 AM »

Well, Blastaar here has a certain fondness for Lee Sherman who was a workhorse at late '40s Charlton - Cowboy Western, Tim McCoy, Jack in the Box, etc. He's scanning all of the ones I own and will post them eventually.

Can't think of anyone worse...

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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bchat

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2010, 03:40:47 AM »

The Red Hawk story from Blazing Comics # 2 has some of the worst artwork I've ever seen from a "professional artist".
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boox909

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2010, 04:14:02 AM »


Who is the worst artist of the golden age? or for unknown artist,comic with the worst art?



Was Don Heck active in the Golden Age?
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Astaldo711

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2010, 04:15:25 AM »

I just know him from early Marvel work. The Avengers mostly. Didn't like his stuff.
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cimmerian32

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2010, 04:34:27 AM »



Who is the worst artist of the golden age? or for unknown artist,comic with the worst art?



Was Don Heck active in the Golden Age?


Don Heck did some CLASSIC pre-code horror and war covers...
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OtherEric

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2010, 05:43:48 AM »

Martin Naydel, while not the worst artist, may have some sort of record for being the most misassigned artist.  His funny animal and humor filler pages can be quite good.  But his Superhero work has to be seen to be disbelieved.  It's so bad it's terrible.
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boox909

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2010, 06:00:15 AM »


Martin Naydel, while not the worst artist, may have some sort of record for being the most misassigned artist.  His funny animal and humor filler pages can be quite good.  But his Superhero work has to be seen to be disbelieved.  It's so bad it's terrible.


Is this the same "Martin Nodel" of Alan Scott Green Lantern fame? I was fortunate to see him in person at a Mid-Ohio-Con a decade or so back. I believe he passed a few years back.

Cherish our Golden Age elders!   ;D ;D ;D

B.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2010, 06:22:13 AM by boox909 »
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OtherEric

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2010, 07:27:08 AM »

No, they are NOT the same person.  Naydel (and I'm not sure I'm spelling it right) was most noted for his work on Flash but also did quite a few issues of All-Star with the JSA.  Nodell also has some work in All-Star but I don't think they worked on the same issues.  And my All-Star Archives are all in storage so I can't get issue numbers right now.
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DennyWilson

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2010, 07:35:54 AM »



Who is the worst artist of the golden age? or for unknown artist,comic with the worst art?



Was Don Heck active in the Golden Age?


Ever see Heck's artwork on BATGIRL in the Batman Family/Detective "Dollar" era?  NEVER has there been worst art in a DC Silver/Bronze age comic.
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phabox

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2010, 10:56:29 AM »

Hal Sherman who co created the original Star-Spangled Kid over at DC Comics had a lot to answer for IMO -LOL

Wonder if he was any relation to LEE Sherman ?

-Nigel
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boox909

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2010, 02:44:57 PM »


No, they are NOT the same person.  Naydel (and I'm not sure I'm spelling it right) was most noted for his work on Flash but also did quite a few issues of All-Star with the JSA.  Nodell also has some work in All-Star but I don't think they worked on the same issues.  And my All-Star Archives are all in storage so I can't get issue numbers right now.



I always thought it was the same person...interesting.
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narfstar

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2010, 03:01:21 PM »

I have to agree that Red Hawk is very amaturish. Naydel and Nodell are not the same person.
Sherman got me thinking of Sherwood. Don Sherwood did comic strips in the GA and some Charlton in the SA. His Patridge Family is awful. I met him at Heroes Con and he had done the Flintstones comic strip for 3 years and bought an original Fred F. It looked good. I need to check out some of his other Charlton stuff. It may just miscasting to have put him on Partridge Family. Considering it was a book to appeal visually to girls wanting to see David Cassidy, his David pinups were terrible to look at.
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2020, 11:35:20 PM »


Well, Blastaar here has a certain fondness for Lee Sherman who was a workhorse at late '40s Charlton - Cowboy Western, Tim McCoy, Jack in the Box, etc. He's scanning all of the ones I own and will post them eventually.

Can't think of anyone worse...
Peace, Jim (|:{>


I agree 100%.  I'm a big fan of funny animal comics.  So, I don't know what his Human figures looked like, or how he drew backgrounds for his so-called "realistically drawn (non-cartoony-style) comics.  But his early and mid 1940s comics drawn for Four Star/Farrell, and late '40s work for Charlton and jobbers for small indie publishers was about the worst attempt to portray anything in symbolic art I've ever seen.  My dead grandmother could have drawn better than he did, with her left hand, AFTER SHE DIED!!!  I've seen some pretty awful drawing in comics, especially during the 1960s and 1970s when comic book artists were not respected at all, paid even less related to the highly-rising cost of living, so they worked extremely fast to crank out enough pages to scrape out a meagre living.  Kay Wright, Tony Strobl, after his divorce, and greedy wife took everything plus a big alimony % caused him to race through his pages, were terrible enough.  But Sherman's work looked like it was drawn by a severely drunk two-year-old!
« Last Edit: April 17, 2020, 09:47:42 AM by Robb_K »
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2020, 11:56:50 PM »

Here are some examples of Lee Sherman's terrible, and very amateurish funny animal artwork for the "Pudgy Pig" filler in Catholic Comics (distributed by Charlton):



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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2020, 03:28:31 AM »

I can understand your opinion, and as a professional, you would look at it with a professional eye, and be offended that work that is substandard got published and the artist got paid. I shy away from being negative about creative work. But I do have to say, that for a publisher, Charlton stands out for shoddy and substandard work. Even when they had Ditko, Aparo, P.A.M or Glantzman or artists of that standard, the production standards trashed their work.
For the Golden Age, if we look at work on this site, we often see the very early work of people who went on to be masters. It's the work of learners, and should be evaluated in context. There were one or two artists who were absolutely dreadful. I think also,there were some who were discouraged or angry at the industry and let their art show it.
There were also bad writers, but they are not as visible.
I have recently seen negative comments about both Don Heck and Gil Kane. Back in the day Kane ranked high on my list, because I considered him one of the few who 'got'  Kirby and could put energy and dynamism in his work. One thing that you can't tell as a casual consumer of comics, is the effect of an artist's emotional and mental state on his or her work. Don Heck was capable of a very high standard of work but I understand he lost confidence in himself. He didn't rate his own work. At the end of his career, as I understand it he was treated with indifference by the up and coming young bucks at Marvel and DC. I recently read a late 70's comic drawn by Al Milgrom and inked by Don Heck. Let's just say, to be polite, that Al Milgrom doesn't rate in anybody's Parthenon of Artists. Don Heck does. And the only redeeming feature of that art work was Don Heck's inking.
I still remember a Green Arrow that Heck did for DC around that time. It was excellent, but the inking, as bad inking can, obliterated much of it.
The comics industry can be very unforgiving.
I think one way to rate an artist is to realize how much of that artist's work is retained favorably in your memory. Much of Don Hecks work is strong in my memory. As is Kanes. Sad to say, nothing of Milgroms is anywhere in my memory.
Cheers!                     
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2020, 04:20:46 AM »


I can understand your opinion, and as a professional, you would look at it with a professional eye, and be offended that work that is substandard got published and the artist got paid.


They SHOULD have been angry at the industry for not respecting them and appreciating their work!  But if the kids wanted to continue to pay just 10 cents, the companies would have had a hard time paying the artists and writers decent money, and still making a profit and staying in business.  I understand that young artists need to learn their craft.  I was attending art school starting at age 40, just at the same time I started writing and storyboarding comic book stories and writing cover gags and drawing up the layout sketches. 

But look at that Pudgy Pig page above.  He has a different nose (snout) length in each panel.  Maybe he lies too much!  Look at the cat.  He's a cyclops!  Those are basic errors the guy should have weeded out before he tried out for a professional job.  Or, if he just fell into the job by accident, he should have done something about his problem, and tried some way to get some instruction.  Ordinarily, I'd give Sherman a little leeway, at his start.  But, he never got a bit better after 7 years or so.  He didn't get even a bit better.  His mistakes were the same.  The only difference was, that 7 years later, his work had lost its innocent "charm" and the reader could see that he lost the "joy", "spirit" and energy he put into his earlier work.

I have to admit that my introduction to comic books, and reading was having Carl Barks and Floyd Gottfredson stories read to me at age 2 and three, and learning to read them back to my parents, grandparents and older cousins, and then getting my choice of all my 4 older cousins' 1940s comics as they finished with them.  So, I picked those that I liked best, and I was spoiled for artists whose work looked like it could be real (most of them were ex-animators).
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2020, 04:26:42 AM »

Here's Daffy Dog by Sherman:

The backgrounds are extremely simple, like those of Charles Schultz's in "Peanuts", but, somehow, looking like a little kid (4 year old?) drew them.  The Dog is very simple too, but stiff and doesn't give any feeling of movement.  Some of his expressions give the impression that the artist wants, but others not.  Look at the page below.  The rat and bear are exactly alike except for their snouts.  They look like a 6 or 7-year old drew them!


I haven't seen any of his "more serious" Human character work.  I'm very curious to see it, to see if it's any better related to the average work in the industry than that relationship in his funny animal work.  I find it extremely interesting that Jim (a big fan of Human-character comics) also picked Sherman as the WORST Golden Age comic book artist (out of hundreds).  I'm sort of shocked.  I wouldn't have guessed the same person would have been "allowed" to work enough in two such different art genres, to even have the OPPORTUNITY to become the "worst" in both!   ;D
« Last Edit: April 15, 2020, 09:19:03 AM by Robb_K »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #18 on: April 17, 2020, 09:35:06 AM »

These guys didn't come to mind earlier, they border Golden Age and Silver Age, but I found this work embarrassingly bad even for Charlton when I first read this comic.
Blue Beetle #1 1964.

Bill Fraccio |Tony Tallarico

Take that cover, if that's what it looked like after Frank McLaughlin inked it, how bad was it in the first place?
It stays in the mind because when I read it as a kid, I was really disappointed. That was the first Blue Beetle I ever read.
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=39317

Cheers!
 
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crashryan

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #19 on: April 18, 2020, 02:25:39 AM »

Gotta agree with you, Panther. Fraccio/Tallarico were everywhere and stank wherever they appeared. To be fair, Fraccio was the greatest problem. Tallarico by himself was competent. From an interview I gather that Tallarico was something of a hustler able to sell all kinds of projects (e.g. his series of how-to-draw books, which I used to see in every bookstore). Fraccio's pencilling comic projects freed Tallarico to cast his net even wider. I hated their stuff. They must have worked cheap, too. They seemed to show up whenever a company was on the skids, for example Dell. They also did some work for Warren during his first slump. The switch from Williamson, Torres, Toth, etc. to Fraccio/Tallarico was hard for this art fanboy to take. And they had the gall to credit themselves as "Tony Williamson." (Later the credit was softened to Tony Williamsune.)

It's difficult to name a single Worst Golden Age Artist. In the early days many of them were unschooled kids who'd never have been hired a decade later. Fox published some of the worst art. Fox didn't give a damn for quality; he just wanted to fill the pages. Hardly any Fox artist signed his work so God alone knows who drew some of that stuff.

For Robb, here is a sample of Lee Sherman's straight work. It's the Red River adaptation beginning on our page 22.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=71433

He's pretty awful, but Howard Browner is right up there with him. Check out the Edwin Land bio strip from Catholic Comics v1#13 (page 20):

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=29911

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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2020, 03:59:11 AM »


Gotta agree with you, Panther. Fraccio/Tallarico were everywhere and stank wherever they appeared. To be fair, Fraccio was the greatest problem. Tallarico by himself was competent. From an interview I gather that Tallarico was something of a hustler able to sell all kinds of projects (e.g. his series of how-to-draw books, which I used to see in every bookstore). Fraccio's pencilling comic projects freed Tallarico to cast his net even wider. I hated their stuff. They must have worked cheap, too. They seemed to show up whenever a company was on the skids, for example Dell. They also did some work for Warren during his first slump. The switch from Williamson, Torres, Toth, etc. to Fraccio/Tallarico was hard for this art fanboy to take. And they had the gall to credit themselves as "Tony Williamson." (Later the credit was softened to Tony Williamsune.)

It's difficult to name a single Worst Golden Age Artist. In the early days many of them were unschooled kids who'd never have been hired a decade later. Fox published some of the worst art. Fox didn't give a damn for quality; he just wanted to fill the pages. Hardly any Fox artist signed his work so God alone knows who drew some of that stuff.

For Robb, here is a sample of Lee Sherman's straight work. It's the Red River adaptation beginning on our page 22.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=71433

He's pretty awful, but Howard Browner is right up there with him. Check out the Edwin Land bio strip from Catholic Comics v1#13 (page 20):

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=29911


Wow!  That Edwin Land story is almost as terrible as the worst Human figure drawing I've seen in any comic book.  But the Aesop's Fable drawn by Sherman is right up there in terribleness (is that a word?).

Land's work is much worse than Sherman's Human figures.  Not that the latter was even remotely decent at Human figures, but his weaknesses in drawing show up to a far greater degree in his funny animals, and more simple backgrounds in those stories. 


i think it is more difficult to express complicated movements and proper positioning in movement, and structure of animate and inaniment objects in cartooning (e.g. more simplified drawing) than in detailed drawing.  And therefore, the artist must know the structure of living things, and non-living things much better, and must know how the body of animate living things and how moving non-living things and living animals and people look when they are in motion, much more than artists who portray their subjects in a realistic style.

Take Charles Schultz's "Peanuts" strip and characters, for example.  The layperson looks at the paucity of Schultz's drawn lines, and the apparent simplicity of the drawings, and thinks......"Even I can do THAT!  How come that guy can have World Fame, and be a multi-millionaire", and that hasn't happened to me???"

What the average person doesn't realise is, that with far fewer lines available for use to depict a scene using characters and backgrounds, it becomes MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more important to know the details more strongly, so one can still express that feeling of how the inanimate object looks, or exactly where the line of shade would fall, where the tree parts move when they blow in the wind, how a giant 50 Kilo sack of potatoes
flops and creases in the arms of a weak boy trying to carry it, etc. - and how the muscles of a human or animal move, and change shape when they run, jump. dive, etc.  - and how a Human or animal's facial expressions change with the different emotions, being able to put the emphasis on the most telling of the line changes, that give away which emotion is being expressed.  These things take a LOT of days and hours over a number of years of close, meticulous observation, and study. 

LOTS of lines of muscle movement that create differences in light and shadows on the face are occurring when the face expresses emotion.  The artist needs to learn which are the most important indicators of that emotion.  Many beginning artists using the fewer lines use them in the wrong places, and fail to express the emotion, at all, or even express an incorrect emotion for what's happening in the panel art.  That can be absolutely exasperating to readers - making them want to throw the book down onto the floor, and jump on it. 

So, I see that the terrible weaknesses in Lee Sherman's art show up a lot more in his absolutely abominable cartooning, much more than in his very weak more detailed, more realistic "serious" drawing.  I'm not saying his "realistic art" is decent, or acceptable.  It's not "enjoyable" to see.  But, it doesn't make the fan of the genre sorry he or she opened the page.  On the other hand, Edwin Land's attempt at "realistic art" seems to almost reach that level of badness.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2020, 04:35:56 AM »

Quote
Take Charles Schultz's "Peanuts" strip and characters, for example.  The layperson looks at the paucity of Schultz's drawn lines, and the apparent simplicity of the drawings, and thinks......"Even I can do THAT!  How come that guy can have World Fame, and be a multi-millionaire", and that hasn't happened to me???"

Oh, personally, I never thought that, I always could see the craft in Schultz Work, unlike that in Garfield for instance. I think, even I can do that!
I am reminded I once had a poster-sized blow-up of a Picasso Drawing of  Don Quixote and Sancho. That looked like something you could do in two minutes, but the nuances! Everything you needed to know about those characters was in that drawing. When I looked at it, it took ages to take my eyes off of it. A visual guilty pleasure.
I might see if I can track that down and post it.
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Electricmastro

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2020, 03:46:56 AM »

Not usually one to focus on what art is bad, though that said, the cover of Miss Liberty #1 really stood out to me:

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The Australian Panther

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2020, 09:20:13 AM »

That Miss Liberty cover demonstrated one of the most common mistakes you see in Comics Art.Often on covers. Figure in motion, one leg shorter or more distorted than the other. Yes, visually one leg will look shorter than the other, but it looks dreadful if you don't get the perspective right.
The best artists will work with models and pose them in the situations they want to draw, then photograph them and work from the photos. That's a good idea but working with a photograph can leave you with a flat and somewhat distorted image. What the Miss Liberty cover suggests to me is that this is the writers thumbnail sketch, intended for the artist to turn into a decent drawing but used as the cover out of laziness or to meet a deadline.
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Robb_K

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Re: Worst Golden Age Artist?
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2020, 09:25:55 AM »


That Miss Liberty cover demonstrated one of the most common mistakes you see in Comics Art.Often on covers. Figure in motion, one leg shorter or more distorted than the other. Yes, visually one leg will look shorter than the other, but it looks dreadful if you don't get the perspective right.
The best artists will work with models and pose them in the situations they want to draw, then photograph them and work from the photos. That's a good idea but working with a photograph can leave you with a flat and somewhat distorted image. What the Miss Liberty cover suggests to me is that this is the writers thumbnail sketch, intended for the artist to turn into a decent drawing but used as the cover out of laziness or to meet a deadline.

That cover is way too detailed and finished to be a thumbnail sketch.  But I take it that you meant that the lazy artist just used the scribbled thumbnail sketch as a framework (perhaps blowing it up, then penciling over it on a light board, then inking directly over the poor pencil drawing.  He looks like he has a withered leg from a bout with polio, and the man in the suit must have had a run in with a shark, who ate a big chunk of the man's upper left thigh!  Poor guy!
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