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Watcha Watchin'?

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topic icon Author Topic: Watcha Watchin'?  (Read 738484 times)

Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #750 on: August 11, 2011, 05:52:49 AM »


Once again I've just watched some of my favorite series films... over the last
few days, the final 3. To use (ahem) "alternate" titles...


DRACULA TODAY

DRACULA IS DEAD AND WELL AND LIVING IN LONDON

DRACULA AND THE ARMY OF KUNG-FU ZOMBIES



Not the actual titles, but fun flicks all the same. And Peter Cushing is Prof.
Van Helsing in all 3 of them!


I'm going to guess that it would be a safe assumption to say that the Kung Fu Zombie one was the Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires. Correct?
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #751 on: August 11, 2011, 06:42:54 PM »

Yep.

Believe it or not, that's the 2nd movie I used that description for.  I'd have to look it up (can't remember the name), but way back when, I actually saw a movie which starred Cameron Mitchell as the captain of a sleazy cruise ship, which takes passengers to an island that somehow got over-run by the living dead. I also recall Tina Louise was in it (though I may be mistaken).  It was R-rated, contained a lot of nudity, and I took to calling it "THE LUST BOAT AT THE ISLAND OF KUNG-FU ZOMBIES".

This was a few years before I finally saw the final Hammer Dracula film on TV.



Something funny struck me last night... LEGEND... actually has a similar plot structure to ENTER THE DRAGON (made the same year, I think).  It involves a journey, several flashbacks, and 3 major fights-- each one bigger than the one before.  The first, on the streets of a town, involves maybe 12 people.  the 2nd, in a cave, involves maybe 20.  The 3rd, maybe 50 people. (At least it looks that way) And then, after that, the FINAL battle is between just the hero and the villain.

It amazes me how many people gave LEGEND... good reviews, including those who feel it's ridiculous.  It's just very fun and watchable. I don't understand the incompetence of Warner Bros.  They apparently were the ones who suggested Hammer do a pair of "modern day" DRACULA films, then, refused to distribute the 2nd one. And they didn't distribute LEGEND... either.  Both SATANIC RITES... and LEGEND... finally made it to theatres here 5 YEARS after each was made, with stupid name changes and heavy editing.  It's ironic that on TV, LEGEND... was more intact than when it was in theatres here.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2011, 06:50:03 PM by profh0011 »
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #752 on: August 11, 2011, 06:54:25 PM »


Yep.

Believe it or not, that's the 2nd movie I used that description for.  I'd have to look it up (can't remember the name), but way back when, I actually saw a movie which starred Cameron Mitchell as the captain of a sleazy cruise ship, which takes passengers to an island that somehow got over-run by the living dead. I also recall Tina Louise was in it (though I may be mistaken).  It was R-rated, contained a lot of nudity, and I took to calling it "THE LUST BOAT AT THE ISLAND OF KUNG-FU ZOMBIES".

This was a few years before I finally saw the final Hammer Dracula film on TV.


Sounds to me like you're thinking of Kung Fu Cannibals...

Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires is dumb, but fun. I just liked the idea of seeing a Hammer/Shaw Brothers co-production and I'm a big David Chiang fan. Plus, the movie was actually co-directed by Chang Cheh, although he did not receive any on-screen credit, I think he was mostly responsible for the action scenes. Although Chang is not a household name, he's more influential than one might think, and his former apprentice is a household name, that's a guy known as John Woo.
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #753 on: August 11, 2011, 06:59:53 PM »

Enter the Dragon is actually a year older than Seven Golden Vampires, but it influenced a lot of movies. Plus it was influenced by a lot of films that came before it.
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #754 on: August 11, 2011, 09:12:27 PM »

I was reading that LEGEND... wound up inspiring an entire genre of Chinese vampire movies.

ENTER THE DRAGON, of course, is one of my all-time favorite films. Much better than the James Bond movies from the same period, and a hint of what they might have been like had George Lazenby stuck around instead of Roger Moore. It's so tragic that Bruce Lee died 2 weeks before it hit theatres.

I actually saw Lazenby in a "chop-socky flick" (what my late friend Jim called lower-end martial arts films), THE MAN FROM HONG KONG. It was one of those with hilarious fight scenes that went on for 10 minutes at a stretch, where the combatants never seemed to get tired, no matter how many times they were batted about.  Lazenby played the film's VILLAIN, who comes to a nasty end at the finale. The film's theme song was "Sky High" (I forget who the band was who recorded that).
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #755 on: August 11, 2011, 09:27:56 PM »


I was reading that LEGEND... wound up inspiring an entire genre of Chinese vampire movies.

ENTER THE DRAGON, of course, is one of my all-time favorite films. Much better than the James Bond movies from the same period, and a hint of what they might have been like had George Lazenby stuck around instead of Roger Moore. It's so tragic that Bruce Lee died 2 weeks before it hit theatres.

I actually saw Lazenby in a "chop-socky flick" (what my late friend Jim called lower-end martial arts films), THE MAN FROM HONG KONG. It was one of those with hilarious fight scenes that went on for 10 minutes at a stretch, where the combatants never seemed to get tired, no matter how many times they were batted about.  Lazenby played the film's VILLAIN, who comes to a nasty end at the finale. The film's theme song was "Sky High" (I forget who the band was who recorded that).


The Man from Hong Kong was an attempt to turn Jimmy Wang Yu into the next Bruce Lee (which is actually kind of funny, because he had been a kung fu star in Hong Kong before Bruce Lee was). The song your thinking of was performed by Jigsaw.

The Hong Kong vampire movie craze was big in the eighties starting with Mr. Vampire (1985). But, these vampires are a little different, they are Jiang Shi, which is more of a zombie than a vampire. They tend to be depicted as stiff (rigor mortis has set in), so their knees can't bend, and they travel by hopping. The creature was featured in one of the Mario Brothers games. The Mr. Vampire movies were generally comedic in nature.
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #756 on: August 12, 2011, 12:49:15 PM »



Legend of the Seven Golden Vampires is dumb, but fun. I just liked the idea of seeing a Hammer/Shaw Brothers co-production and I'm a big David Chiang fan. Plus, the movie was actually co-directed by Chang Cheh, although he did not receive any on-screen credit, I think he was mostly responsible for the action scenes. Although Chang is not a household name, he's more influential than one might think, and his former apprentice is a household name, that's a guy known as John Woo.


Also been a fan of David Chiang's work ever since I first saw him back in the early 1970s in The New One-Armed Swordsman which was playing on a great triple bill that also included Lady Kung Fu (with Angela Mao) and The Chinese Connection (with Bruce Lee) at the long gone (but never forgotten) Cinema Park Drive-In.

Best

Joe
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profh0011

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« Reply #757 on: August 12, 2011, 06:05:12 PM »

Aha!  Yep, Jigsaw. I recall the song on the radio before seeing the film on HBO (my best friend's family got cable maybe 5 years before I did).

Also, yep regarding the vampires.  Anyone who's seen 7 GOLDEN VAMPIRES knows why I refer to them as "Kung-Fu Zombies", they look more like zombies than they do traditional vampires.  EVEN the "Golden" ones. The exception is the leader of the pack, who wound up being possessed by the spirit of COUNT DRACULA at the beginning of the film, in a manner somewhat similar to when "The Master" took over the body of "Tremas" (Anthony Ainley), killing him in the process.

It's funny, a reviewer at the IMDB pointed out that in SATANIC RITES, you had an ex-"Doctor Who" fighting a guy who at one point in the film refers to himself as "The Master". I keep thinking if Amicus had kept doing DR. WHO movies, it would have been cool to see Cushing vs. Lee in exactly that capacity.

2 "007" connections...  Julie Ege was one of the 12 girls at Blofeld's clinic in OHMSS, and David DeKyser, who DUBBED Dracula's voice, also dubbed Tracy's father in OHMSS.


Although continuity between the Hammer films is dodgy at best (it's been suggested they may actually take place in 3-- or 4-- completely separate continuities), my own belief is that the French girl in BRIDES OF DRACULA was Leyland Van Helsing's mother, and Leyland was (probably) Lorrimer Van Helsing's father.  Romance or not, I kinda doubt Lorrimer's mother was Chinese.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2011, 06:09:36 PM by profh0011 »
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #758 on: August 12, 2011, 06:29:36 PM »

Menticide wrote:
"Sounds to me like you're thinking of Kung Fu Cannibals... "


I had to look it up... YOU'RE RIGHT!  But my confusion had a reason...


""Raw Force" is like an ultra-sleazy and perverted version of Love Boat, with additional Kung Fu fights, demented cannibalistic monks, white slaves trade, energetic zombies and a whole lot of lousy acting performances."

THAT's it.  When I saw it, it was released under the title "RAW FORCE".  Obviously, the other title is more accurate, less vague (and a lot more fun).
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #759 on: August 13, 2011, 01:39:05 AM »

Okay, here's what I really think. This entire section of the forum, if expanded, could turn into a brilliant fanzine devoted to the art of trashy cinema. What do you guys think? I say yep!
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #760 on: August 13, 2011, 01:35:48 PM »


Okay, here's what I really think. This entire section of the forum, if expanded, could turn into a brilliant fanzine devoted to the art of trashy cinema. What do you guys think? I say yep!


Much of the what one used to read in the old fanzines has moved to blogs and forums already so there's no reason why we can't have some banter and discussion along those lines.  This section of the forum certainly seems flexible enough to handle that.

Best

Joe
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #761 on: August 13, 2011, 05:05:40 PM »

According to the Daily Mail, they actually enhance our reading pleasure.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2024884/Spoilers-actually-enhance-enjoyment-films-TV-shows-books-ruining-them.html

I disagree in the extreme... and I posted a reply which has already offended someone at one message board.
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Comic Book Plus In-House Image

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #762 on: August 14, 2011, 07:12:04 AM »



Okay, here's what I really think. This entire section of the forum, if expanded, could turn into a brilliant fanzine devoted to the art of trashy cinema. What do you guys think? I say yep!


Much of the what one used to read in the old fanzines has moved to blogs and forums already so there's no reason why we can't have some banter and discussion along those lines.  This section of the forum certainly seems flexible enough to handle that.

Best

Joe


I was just thinking back to the days when I was working as a security guard. I worked the graveyard shift and I must have every single fanzine out there at the time. Back then Tower Records used to keep a pretty decent selection of movie related ones in stock.

Speaking of the odd world of cinema, I just picked up 42nd Street Forever Vol. 3. It's a collection of old b-movie trailers from the 70s and 80s. Everything from Kung Fu movies to horror flicks, very entertaining.
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #763 on: August 14, 2011, 07:53:33 AM »


According to the Daily Mail, they actually enhance our reading pleasure.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2024884/Spoilers-actually-enhance-enjoyment-films-TV-shows-books-ruining-them.html

I disagree in the extreme... and I posted a reply which has already offended someone at one message board.


I agree with you Henry.   This is a lot of bunk.  Using Columbo as an example to prove their theory doesn't work.  Even though you knew who did the crime and why in those shows the fun was in watching the process of how Columbo worked it out.  The spoiler there would have been in revealing to us how he figured it out. 
The Columbo approach was also something that was very entertaining in the hands of a very talented actor such as Peter Falk but not something which any old actor could pull off anywhere near as successfully.

Best

Joe
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #764 on: August 14, 2011, 08:24:32 AM »


I was just thinking back to the days when I was working as a security guard. I worked the graveyard shift and I must have every single fanzine out there at the time. Back then Tower Records used to keep a pretty decent selection of movie related ones in stock.


Yeah I remember picking up quite a few at Tower back in the day too.  Some I would just buy off the newstands and some I eventually got subscriptions to (such as Hong Kong Film Connection, Oriental Cinema, Video Watchdog, Asian Trash/Cult Cinema and others I'm sure that I'm forgetting).  I think VW is the only one still being published these days.



Speaking of the odd world of cinema, I just picked up 42nd Street Forever Vol. 3. It's a collection of old b-movie trailers from the 70s and 80s. Everything from Kung Fu movies to horror flicks, very entertaining.


42nd Street!  My first encounter with it was soon after I arrived back at the Kubert School in 1979.  I took a bus into the city (Manhatten) and as soon as you came out of the bus terminal you found yourself on 42nd Street.  At that point in time the XXX movies and live sex shows were already taking over many of the theaters and it only got worse before I left in 1984.  I heard that they eventually cleaned up the area but that was long after I left and I have no idea what going on there now.

Most of the sort of movies that played on 42nd Street during its hay day were films that I saw at drive in theaters out here in Phoenix in the 1960s and 70s.  Many wonderfully enjoyable AIP, Blaxploitation, martial arts, Eurotrash, cheapie horror flicks and the like I first viewed back then under the open stars.

Best

Joe
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #765 on: August 14, 2011, 11:23:49 AM »



I was just thinking back to the days when I was working as a security guard. I worked the graveyard shift and I must have every single fanzine out there at the time. Back then Tower Records used to keep a pretty decent selection of movie related ones in stock.


Yeah I remember picking up quite a few at Tower back in the day too.  Some I would just buy off the newstands and some I eventually got subscriptions to (such as Hong Kong Film Connection, Oriental Cinema, Video Watchdog, Asian Trash/Cult Cinema and others I'm sure that I'm forgetting).  I think VW is the only one still being published these days.



Speaking of the odd world of cinema, I just picked up 42nd Street Forever Vol. 3. It's a collection of old b-movie trailers from the 70s and 80s. Everything from Kung Fu movies to horror flicks, very entertaining.


42nd Street!  My first encounter with it was soon after I arrived back at the Kubert School in 1979.  I took a bus into the city (Manhatten) and as soon as you came out of the bus terminal you found yourself on 42nd Street.  At that point in time the XXX movies and live sex shows were already taking over many of the theaters and it only got worse before I left in 1984.  I heard that they eventually cleaned up the area but that was long after I left and I have no idea what going on there now.

Most of the sort of movies that played on 42nd Street during its hay day were films that I saw at drive in theaters out here in Phoenix in the 1960s and 70s.  Many wonderfully enjoyable AIP, Blaxploitation, martial arts, Eurotrash, cheapie horror flicks and the like I first viewed back then under the open stars.

Best

Joe


I used to read all of those, I even almost wrote a piece for Oriental Cinema, but I can't remember why I decided not to. Asian Cult Cinema is still being published. I also used to like Cineraider quite a bit, Giant Robot was fun, and one of the oddest mags that I used to read fairly regularly was something called Murder can be Fun. Shocking Images was a fairly fun magazine devoted to the most gory of horror movies. There was a really neat little fanzine that was photocopied and I think it was only available in the North East area, it was published out of New Jersey, it was entirely devoted to horror movies, and I can't for the life of me remember its name, but it was one of my favorites. Psychotronic was another good one, as was the British magazine Impact, and European Trash Cinema. So many mags, so little memory on my part.

The 42nd Street DVD is a lot of fun. Well worth seeking out. I found at Borders today, it was marked at 20 bucks, but it was supposed to be 50% off. When they rang me up, the movie was actually 2 bucks, super great deal. I'll have to go back and see if I can find the rest of the series.
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #766 on: August 14, 2011, 11:39:09 AM »



I was just thinking back to the days when I was working as a security guard. I worked the graveyard shift and I must have every single fanzine out there at the time. Back then Tower Records used to keep a pretty decent selection of movie related ones in stock.


Yeah I remember picking up quite a few at Tower back in the day too.  Some I would just buy off the newstands and some I eventually got subscriptions to (such as Hong Kong Film Connection, Oriental Cinema, Video Watchdog, Asian Trash/Cult Cinema and others I'm sure that I'm forgetting).  I think VW is the only one still being published these days.



Speaking of the odd world of cinema, I just picked up 42nd Street Forever Vol. 3. It's a collection of old b-movie trailers from the 70s and 80s. Everything from Kung Fu movies to horror flicks, very entertaining.


42nd Street!  My first encounter with it was soon after I arrived back at the Kubert School in 1979.  I took a bus into the city (Manhatten) and as soon as you came out of the bus terminal you found yourself on 42nd Street.  At that point in time the XXX movies and live sex shows were already taking over many of the theaters and it only got worse before I left in 1984.  I heard that they eventually cleaned up the area but that was long after I left and I have no idea what going on there now.

Most of the sort of movies that played on 42nd Street during its hay day were films that I saw at drive in theaters out here in Phoenix in the 1960s and 70s.  Many wonderfully enjoyable AIP, Blaxploitation, martial arts, Eurotrash, cheapie horror flicks and the like I first viewed back then under the open stars.

Best

Joe


BTW, I had a friend that attended the Kubert School back in the 90s. We had planned on attempting to start our own comic book company, but we had a falling out, and never quite reconciled. That was a long time ago and I live on the other side of the country now. But, Boox can attest to the fact that I still write scripts for one of the books that we had planned on releasing back then, and no, it's still never saw the light of day, just a stack of scripts, and a writer that still believes in it. Just thought I'd share that little memory.
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #767 on: August 14, 2011, 08:25:12 PM »

(re-posting from another board)


I have never once been able to predict how an Agatha Christie murder mystery would go in advance, but it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I'm too much in awe of how she, as a writer, thinks, and the incredible way she put together such complex puzzles where every piece fits so perfectly.

I go out of my way to avoid knowing what's coming. In the case of DOCTOR WHO on the Sci-Fi Channel, I had to shut off the sound and avert my eyes because at every single commercial break they ran promos for next week's episode during THIS week's. Idiots. I may have been the only person in the US who was actually surprised when, at the cliffhanger halfway thru David Tennant's 1st season finale... (CENSORED!!!!!) ...showed up.



"a genuinely well-written story should pay to re-read/re-watch/re-whatever, so that, even knowing exactly what is going to happen in it, the story should still be enjoyable."

Classic example for me: DEATH ON THE NILE (1978). I had NO IDEA where it was going, who did it or why. But it was so well-told, that by the end of the movie, I was not only STUNNED, I was able to follow every single plot point, and remember them. 2 weeks later-- my Dad (who enjoyed it as much as I had) and me went to see it AGAIN-- and enjoyed it JUST as much. It was an entirely different experience, and has been ever since (I must have seen it a dozen times by now). But in cases like this, you ONLY get ONE chance to see it "cold"-- not knowing in advance. I consider it downright CRIMINAL for anyone to blow the surprises on a thing like that.


And I've had it happen more than once.


"He was on Earth ALL THE TIME!"

"The bad guy is REALLY HIS FATHER!"

"It's the only murder mystery where EVERYBODY DID IT!"



And then there's the one I came up with myself...


"The killer is the ONLY ONE who COULDN'T POSSIBLY have done it."




I loved APOLLO 13. A lot of that had to do with being very much interested in the space program since a very young age.

I do think "historical" films are in a genre of their own. Similar to Biblical films. I doubt anyone watches something like THE LAST DAYS OF SODAM AND GOMORRAH and is surprised by what happens to the city at the end.

However, many stories are designed to have surprised. In those cases, I cannot fathom why ANYONE would want to know details in advance. In the case of MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS, my best friend BLEW THE ENDING for me before I ever got a chance to see it. As a result, I never got the chance to see it "cold", and will never know if KNOWING the ending in advance is why I wound up not liking it in the long run.



"The last page often dosn't reveal much"


"BLAM!"
"How COULD you?"
"it was EASY."



...and...


"She was a double agent. YES, I said WAS. The bitch is DEAD now."



"Personally I don't like spoilers. Personally I like the personal satisfaction of figuring out the plot of a book/show/movie/video game before it ends.  If I am spoiled on it, then I lose the fun of trying to decipher the ending before it happens.  That being said I do also enjoy re-reading/watching something as well, so I can see how the creator crafted the complete tale and tied it all together."

I think that's exactly how I feel. I like having the chance to experience something NOT KNOWING in advance what's going to happen, whether I can figure it out or just go along for the ride and be surprised.

Then, on repeat viewings, you can see just how good (or not) a story is. If it REQUIRES "surprise" to be entertaining, I think something's wrong.


SOYLENT GREEN, apparently, was a "mystery" that was totally ruined as soon as people found out the ending. Worse, I get the feeling that movie, by its very existence, turned an important social problem into a trivia joke, to the point where nobody's wanted to deal with it head-on for decades since. (over-population)
« Last Edit: August 14, 2011, 08:27:57 PM by profh0011 »
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JVJ

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #768 on: August 14, 2011, 09:00:58 PM »

Back when I was much more into movies, I went to a lot of them. I remember seeing "The Sting" on opening day. Nobody was able to publish a spoiler because nobody had seen the movie. I still remember "getting it" about five seconds before the rest of the audience and I literally burst out laughing. I couldn't help myself. And here was this train full of dead bodies and everyone in the audience is in shock and I'm laughing out loud. Priceless.

That experience could NEVER have occurred if everyone knew the ending in advance. I treasure that moment as, usually, I'm the LAST person to "know."

I want to be in the dark.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #769 on: August 15, 2011, 02:19:20 PM »


Asian Cult Cinema is still being published.


Are you sure about this Henry.  The last issue I received (#64) back in 2009 was followed by a notice from publisher Thomas Weisser that he was suspending publication because he and his wife had to move to Japan to attend to some urgent family matters that could keep them tied up there for awhile.  I think that he has since returned to the States but as far as I know he has not (yet anyway) resumed publication (although I'd certainly love to hear otherwise).

He still has his website where he sells Asian Cinema DVDs active so there is hope.

Best

Joe
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Menticide

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #770 on: August 15, 2011, 10:10:58 PM »



Asian Cult Cinema is still being published.


Are you sure about this Henry.  The last issue I received (#64) back in 2009 was followed by a notice from publisher Thomas Weisser that he was suspending publication because he and his wife had to move to Japan to attend to some urgent family matters that could keep them tied up there for awhile.  I think that he has since returned to the States but as far as I know he has not (yet anyway) resumed publication (although I'd certainly love to hear otherwise).

He still has his website where he sells Asian Cinema DVDs active so there is hope.

Best

Joe


I'm not Henry, but that's okay, the name is Jay. I saw that they were still offering subscriptions on the website, so I assumed, when I probably shouldn't have. That got me thinking too, I haven't picked up a copy of the mag in sometime, probably not since before my daughter was born, and she's four years old. Wow, time is flying by. Plus, I haven't chatted with Ric Meyers (who used to write for that mag) in even longer than that.
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josemas

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #771 on: August 16, 2011, 03:13:41 PM »




I'm not Henry, but that's okay, the name is Jay. I saw that they were still offering subscriptions on the website, so I assumed, when I probably shouldn't have. That got me thinking too, I haven't picked up a copy of the mag in sometime, probably not since before my daughter was born, and she's four years old. Wow, time is flying by. Plus, I haven't chatted with Ric Meyers (who used to write for that mag) in even longer than that.


Sorry Jay.  I read yours, Henry's and Jim's posts real quick (and through very tired eyes) and got youse guys confused in me head when I made my quick reply.

Know what you mean about time flying and all.  Sometimes a couple decades ago seems like just yesterday.

Best

Old Tired Joe
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paw broon

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #772 on: August 16, 2011, 04:37:33 PM »

We don't go to the pictures much nowadays.  It's too noisy and punters eat, slurp and talk through the film. Although there is a multiplex in our town, where all that racket is allowed, we are lucky that we have a refurbished, old-fashioned cinema nearby - the oldest purpose built one in Scotland - and that's where we've gone recently on our few cinema outings.  Good atmosphere.
We watched the latest New Tricks last night and I'm running out of superlatives.  Tim McInerny was as creepy as usual.  Never mind The Mentalist, what about Castle?  Where do they go from that shock ending?
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profh0011

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the "Domino" effect
« Reply #773 on: August 16, 2011, 05:40:12 PM »

The following, just posted at the IMDB, concerns the Bogart film THE BIG SLEEP.  If you haven't seen it and don't want things BLOWN for you, do not read any further.





*****SPOILERS!!!!!*****




"The biggest flaw...is how the film handled Regan. In the book he's Vivian's husband."


I was thinking about that while watching again last night.




"why does anyone give a $#!t about Regan? He was friends with some old guy, and not even for that long, and then he disappeared. Big deal, this happens to everyone. The General is old enough to have it happened to him a billion times."


They tried to explain it by saying the General was probably worried Regan was involved in the blackmail scheme.



"Now that I know he was actually his son-in-law I can better understand why he was so upset. In fact, it raises the stakes for every major character in the story. Not only is everyone's motivation clearer, Chandler can end the story properly, when Marlowe confronts Vivian with what he's learned. Why the hell did they leave this out of the movie? Because you couldn't end it the way they did. Wasn't that a nice ending? First hour and 55 minutes and 45 seconds were ruined, but that last 15 seconds was incredible.

In the movie, Vivian shows up at Canino's house at the end? How? Why?"



Vivian lied and said she was going to meet Regan in Mexico, but didn't go, because the border police would have noticed she was alone. (That does sound lame, doesn't it?) I believe the two above points are DIRECTLY related.




"Why would the wife of the guy who (she thought) ran away with Mona Mars be hanging out with Mona Mars?"


One gets the impression that, more than anything, they wanted to stress the Bogart-Bacall romance MORE than the "plot". The first time I saw the film, I noticed, wait a minute, Marlowe DID NOT get the girl in the book! I figured they wanted a more "Hollywood" happy ending. DITTO for Eddie Mars getting killed by his own men. In the book, he gets away scot free!! I did like that change... especially when the row of bullet holes suddenly appeared in the closed door.


Because Marlowe ends up with Vivian, she's in at the climax. And for her to be there, she's at Canino's house. And for her to be THERE... well, since it WOULD make no sense for her to hang out with the woman her husband supposedly left her for, in the movie, she was never married to Regen. She was married to some NEVER-SEEN "Mr. Rutledge" who divorced her before the story ever started.


I never thought about this until your post! What I'm seeing appears to be a "domino" effect. Make one change, and you have to make another, then another...



In the end, you have viewers confused and wondering and argueing, WHO killed Regen (even though they clearly SAID who in the film).


It took a long time, and a lot of viewings, but the Bogart BIG SLEEP has slowly grown on me to become a favorite... IN SPITE of itself. But the last time I watched the Mitchum version... WOW. I am still IN AWE of that film. Which is really saying something, considering how many BAD movies Michael Winner made in his career. I guess he was allowed ONE really "great" one. (Even though a lot of IMDB reviews don't feel that way.)
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profh0011

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Re: Watcha Watchin'?
« Reply #774 on: August 16, 2011, 08:34:00 PM »

SECRET AGENT:  TO OUR BEST FRIEND
Would you want to work for these people??     ********

*** This review may contain spoilers ***

   Drake is assigned, begrudgingly, to go to Istanbul and check up on a longtime friend he's known for 10 years, who the head office suspects has become a double-agent. He doesn't believe it... but it's his job to find out the truth, one way or the other. First, entirely on his own initiative, he sets up a raid on a Russian spy HQ which goes wrong. It looks very bad for his friend, but the man's wife begs John to talk it out, before revealing that, to save their marriage, her husband "had" to tell her what he really did for a living. Which in turn, sets Drake off in a new direction.

   And while this is going on, he's very nervous about his own people, sent there to either arrest his friend, his BUMP HIM OFF if he tries to run.

   Really top-notch cast in this one, starting out with Donald Houston, who played Dr. Watson in A STUDY IN TERROR, and was one of the double-agents in WHERE EAGLES DARE. The wife is played by Ann Bell, who I saw, much later in "The Underdog" episode of POIROT. In addition, the Russian spy "Ivan" (with whom Drake deliberately stages a traffic accident) is T.P. McKenna, who I've seen in 3 different AVENGERS episodes, including "Death At Bargain Prices", and the Sylvester McCoy DOCTOR WHO story "The Greatest Show In The Galaxy", where he played "Captain Cook", the self-serving obnoxious blow-hard explorer. Finally, blink and you'll miss him, the Russian interpreter in the pre-credit sequence is Robert Rietty, who dubbed various voices in THUNDERBALL, YOU ONLY LIVE TWICE and FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, among others. (He's probably better-known for his voice than his face!)
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