[Janus Wolf]

Any interest in underground comics and where to find them on the net? I wonder if they are PD and if the authors / companies would allow their reproduction digitally?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_comix

Janus

[JonTheScanner]

Personally by and large I have little to no interest.  SOme are posted irregularly on ABPC and presumably available by request on the repost and reposts lists.

[narfstar]

A very large number of undergrounds of all type as well as out and out porn comics are available at bootleg sites. I see no reason to demean this site by posting them here. Janus would you want your child getting these books from your site in a few years? As I have found in working with the GCD, many of them are copyrighted to the creators and they do care.

[JVJ]

not only that, but there's no way anyone can stretch the term "golden age" to fit them.

I have a serious collection of them and just last year sold my Zap #1 at Heritage in the low five figures. Yay for me.

(|:{>

[boox909]

In practical terms; the majority of Underground Comics are copyrighted and reprinted many times over -- these are active works and I cannot see their owners willingly allowing these to be hosted for free digital downloading.

Best we avoid them and leave them to other sources as Jon has pointed out.

B.

[Janus Wolf]

Yes, I agree. This is a family site! Just threw it out there more or less for the political underground comics.

Janus

[bbbrown]

not only that, but there's no way anyone can stretch the term "golden age" to fit them.

I have a serious collection of them and just last year sold my Zap #1 at Heritage in the low five figures. Yay for me.

(|:{>

That should have payed for a little bit of time in paris...or could have put in one of those chairs that you could ride up the stairs to where the comics are.

[JVJ]

In the real world, the Zap money paid for part of an issue of ImageS and some old debts relating to the printing of the softcover edition of the Kinstler book.

We've talked about one of those lift chairs but the design of our house doesn't really lend itself to it. And I'm pretty sure that we couldn't afford one even if we had a place to install it. My planned solution is to get healthy and to be able to walk up the stairs. Almost sounds doable.

(|:{>

ps. Janus, what are "political underground comics"?

[DennyWilson]

Are there any Golden Age underground comics?

[boox909]

Are there any Golden Age underground comics?

None that we could host here!!! 

[bbbrown]

In the real world, the Zap money paid for part of an issue of ImageS and some old debts relating to the printing of the softcover edition of the Kinstler book.

Expenses always rise to income in my world, plus those previous debts as mentioned (tho got that down to just the house now and have for a couple of years, or so she says)

We've talked about one of those lift chairs but the design of our house doesn't really lend itself to it. And I'm pretty sure that we couldn't afford one even if we had a place to install it. My planned solution is to get healthy and to be able to walk up the stairs. Almost sounds doable.

(|:{>

  I would either like to become bionic (getting healthy enough for the stairs isn't an option) or put in an elevator.  That is one of the reasons for the planned move and hopefully build or at least have a house an addition can be put on.  Even if all the joints got replaced as needed I still fall down too often with too little reason to do so to ever make stairs or walking safe again.

ps. Janus, what are "political underground comics"?

There is at least one put out by the state of Wisconsin on consumer issues.  I have always thought it funny that a state government would put out a comic that was considered an underground.

[narfstar]

The "Tijuana" bibles come to mind. They are completely free of copyright but very inappropriate

[Janus Wolf]

JVJ, I guess political undergound comics, maybe something in the line of making a political statement aganist the establishment. EG: Hippies, Socialism vs Capitalism.

Janus

In the real world, the Zap money paid for part of an issue of ImageS and some old debts relating to the printing of the softcover edition of the Kinstler book.

We've talked about one of those lift chairs but the design of our house doesn't really lend itself to it. And I'm pretty sure that we couldn't afford one even if we had a place to install it. My planned solution is to get healthy and to be able to walk up the stairs. Almost sounds doable.

(|:{>

ps. Janus, what are "political underground comics"?

[JVJ]

JVJ, I guess political undergound comics, maybe something in the line of making a political statement aganist the establishment. EG: Hippies, Socialism vs Capitalism.

Janus

I have never thought of the undergrounds as being sorted into such "categories", Janus. They ALL, IMHO, seemed to have that "political" edge to them.

Interesting side effect of Underground Comix is that Bud Plant, Al Davoren and I decided to publish, in 1969, a magazine that showcased the art of both undergrounds and regular comics. Promethean Enterprises #1 featured art by Robert Crumb and Al Williamson, Greg Irons and Frank Frazetta, Rick Griffin and Roy Krenkel. Bud was the guy who did the mailing from the garage at his parents' home in San Jose - Bud was 17 years old in 1969.

Al Davoren was a bit older even than I was and exposed (ha ha) us both to the undergrounds. (My Zap #1 that I sold last year was a gift from Al.) The combination of Bud selling comic books in RBCC, using his address for Promethean, the rise of conventions in the late 1960s and his exposure to undergrounds through Al resulted in his starting a mail order business in 1970 selling fanzines and undergrounds. Four years later, that business enabled him to become a distributor who, along with Phil Seuling, begat the Direct Market.

So, in reality, the Direct Market was caused by Al Davoren. You read it here first.

Peace, Jim (|:{>

[paw broon]

Yes, a political edge but also a drug edge.  I had a fair selection of undergrounds, American and British and incl. Oz and I.T. and slowly but surely as I realised the promotion of illegal drugs and the promotion of drugs as entertainment  was as important to the creators as attacking the political establishment, I got rid of that part of my collection.  My opinion is that as this site would not countenance Tijuana bibles or other extremely adult material, it should not host undergrounds - even if they are p.d.
JVJ, I'm happy that your Zap 1 helped you out and it's also a shame that my opinions would preclude the reader from enjoying Crumb and others if they were to be on this site but that's the way it is for me.  I can still enjoy Crumb in his reflections on an American towns development or sitting in his old armchair.
Sorry to go all heavy on you all. 

[JVJ]

Your thoughts don't seem all that heavy to me, paw broon.
I know exactly what you mean about drugs, but then lots of comics contain concepts that I heartily DISAGREE with - prime examples: vigilantism and violence as a solution to anything. And I don't think they were so much 'promoting' drugs as reveling in their freedom to actually talk about and to try to capture on paper their experiences.

I was 22 years old in 1968, living 30 miles from San Francisco. I'd be a liar if I said I never tried drugs - if you call marijuana a drug. It wasn't until 1971 at the New York Comic Con that I ever got high (playing poker in our hotel room late one night). Someone broke out some hashish and I tried it. ONCE. As soon as I realized what getting "high" really meant, I folded my hand, cashed in my winnings and retired to my bed. I never touched the stuff (any stuff) again. I like ME, and whatever I was on drugs wasn't really me.

But the underground comics can't be blamed for drugs any more than Batman can be blamed for the level of violence in modern society. Both are reflections of the societies which spawned them. I like most undergrounds and, as I mentioned, actually published a magazine that promoted the work of several ug artists as Art. Like regular comics, there were some outstanding ones, lots of mediocre ones and lots of terrible ones. C'est la vie.

Sturgeon's Law is that 80% of everything is crap. No reason to exclude ug comix. And since there is more than enough crap to go around in some of the GAC we're hosting, perhaps the ugs can find a home elsewhere.

My 2

[narfstar]

It is funny how different people feel about drugs. I have been high three times. The first was from a fever the next two from laughing gas at the dentist when I had my wisdom teeth removed. Never really been drunk. I do not feel like I have missed anything. I resisted the laughing gas and fought to gain complete control as soon as possible after.

[BobS]

Are there any Golden Age underground comics?

None that we could host here!!! 

<grin> That is, Tijuana bibles.

My interests are eclectic enough to include both Tijuana bibles and 'underground' comix.

Jack Jackson did some good historical comix -- the White Comanche books etc. Also God Nose an early and enjoyable comix.
Frank Stack did Amazon Comics, some Jesus comixs, etc.
One of my favorite comix creators is Kim Deitch.
Trina Robbins is another of my favorites.
Slow Death was ecology comix.
George Metzger did hippie comix that weren't particularly racy if memory serves. Metzger also did fanzine stories.
Willie Mendez did sweet hippie comix -- and now does nice paintings.
Many of the comix were anti-Vietnam War.
Most of the comix weren't for kids but should be OK for mature adults.

I marched on Washington against the Vietnam War and actively dodged the draft by the way.
I also got arrested for participating in a college classroom building lockin, resisted (in small way) war tax, and got arrested again
in the 1980s for protesting outside a military base. (I was for Sandinistas, not Contras nor Archbishop Romero and nuns killing right-wing death squads in El Salvador.

Bob