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[The Australian Panther]

Some of you probably know of this blog, but I just found it today.

http://www.kleefeldoncomics.com/

The subjects that he tackles are right up my alley.

Who was Joe Maneely?
By Sean Kleefeld | Tuesday, November 02, 2021
http://www.kleefeldoncomics.com/2021/11/who-was-joe-maneely.htm l
There is a very small amount of Maneeley's work on CB+, in the Charlton books,.

Some scanner ought to do a portfolio of Joe Maneeley's covers. He was as prolific with covers, and as creative, as Jack Kirby [ Jack to me is also the King of Covers] 
my thoughts as to what he might have been assigned to had he lived past '58?  Looking at his style,
Not the FF or the Hulk. Perhaps the X-men. Jack, for whatever reason, never seemed to put his best effort into that book - although the period from X-men 11 through his penciling for the inadequate Werner Roth are some of the best. 
Definitely Dr Strange after Ditko left. And I think Daredevil, a book which took ages to get a regular penciller.

In Praise of Wyatt Wingfoot
http://www.kleefeldoncomics.com/2021/08/in-praise-of-wyatt-wingfoot.html

Spot on! But he misses something. An earlier Atlas superhero - The original Black Marvel - was an American Indian. Was he the first indigenous superhero? Don't know. But the book where Wyatt was introduced also referenced his Father, as a legendary sportsman. I have always believed that Kirby intended Wyatt to be the new Black Marvel, perhaps not under that name. But then Stan took the Silver Surfer from him and he never contributed another strong original character or concept to Marvel. 
Wyatt Wingfoot? Had a strange history. John Byrne used him as a paramour of She Hulk, when he was doing that book. He wanted to use him also in the Fantastic Four but was eventually prevented from doing that. He didn't know why [he was told they had other plans]  and neither do we.     

Cheers!   

[SuperScrounge]

I've seen several people suggest that he would likely have been more instrumental than Jack Kirby, as Lee would likely have given him projects like the Fantastic Four, Thor, and Hulk at the outset.

While it's not known exactly how much of these projects was Stan's suggestion the Fantastic Four recycled a lot from Kirby's Challengers of the Unknown, Thor was something Jack had done earlier takes on, Hulk... eh, a more action-packed version of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde, maybe Jack had suggested this to Stan or maybe Stan had suggested it and Jack ran with it.

On the other hand Stan had offered Spider-Man to Jack, so maybe if Maneely had lived he might have gotten first crack at it?

Some scanner ought to do a portfolio of Joe Maneeley's covers.

Something like this? 

An earlier Atlas superhero - The original Black Marvel - was an American Indian. Was he the first indigenous superhero?

I believe Mantoka beats him by appearing in January 1940 (or late 1939 because cover dates). Although he doesn't wear a superhero style costume or have a codename so you may or may not consider him to be an early superhero.

[Captain Audio]

Perhaps my favorite anti-hero is "Blackie Duquesne" of the Skylark series,who is apparently part indigenous with raven wing black hair and dark complexion.
He is also nearly a twin to the hero Richard Seation. I often thought Blackie was likely a illegitimate brother of Seaton.

The most famous Native American hero in films would be "General Frank Savage of Twelve O'clock High".

[The Australian Panther]

Scrounge, thanks for that link.
A thought - maybe if Maneely had still been around in Roy Thomas's day, we might have gotten a more interesting modern Black Knight? 

[profh0011]

my thoughts as to what he might have been assigned to had he lived past '58?  Looking at his style, Not the FF or the Hulk. Perhaps the X-men. Jack, for whatever reason, never seemed to put his best effort into that book - although the period from X-men 11 through his penciling for the inadequate Werner Roth are some of the best. 

NONE of the above, simply because JACK KIRBY created all those series entirely on his own with zero input from his editor.  Without Kirby, they would not have existed in the first place.


Definitely Dr Strange after Ditko left. And I think Daredevil, a book which took ages to get a regular penciller.

I could see that.

DAREDEVIL was nearly cancelled before Wally Wood took over.  It's criminal that Wood did so much to "finish" the creation of the series (started by Kirby and ESPECIALLY Everett), that on the DD tv series, Wood is apparently the one person consistently NOT listed in the "thanks to" section.  WTF!!!?

One should also realize, Bill Everett, Joe Orlando, Wally Wood, Jack Kirby, John Romita, and Gene Colan were ALL writing the book while they were on it.  (Kirby wrote the first 2 Romita issues, from an idea apparently supplied by Wally Wood for the SUB-MARINER series, which Wood was supposed to do, but wound up not doing at all, though Romita then heavily re-wrote them.)  This continued until Roy Thomas got on the book, at which point, it lost its sense of humor.  And when Gerry Conway replaced Thomas-- well, as I like to joke, "Conway didn't have Thomas' sense of humor."   

[The Australian Panther]

I always wondered why, while Daredevil was an urban noir kind of hero, why he suddenly went to Antarctica to meet KaZar and fight pirates. Pointless for a series they were trying to get an audience for. But the arc does have the classic 'Daredevil bouncing down the street on the tops of cars' Page by Jack.
The Submariner was another book that was a mess. They had no idea what to do with the Submariner once he stopped fighting Nazi's - hell, they still don't. John Byrne tried some new ideas, but that didn't last. Kirby originally bought him into the new Marvel Universe, and his version fitted well into the big over the top stories Kirby loved to do.
True confession. The first marvel superhero book I remember reading was
Fantastic Four Annual #1 "Sub-Mariner Versus the Human Race!" FF plus Submariner + Monsters + Full-scale invasion. And the clandestine infatuation with Sue. What was not to like. I was hooked! Kirby obviously liked the character a lot at that point. But in the context of what he was creating for the FF.
Joe Maneely would have been interesting on Sub-Mariner too.   

[profh0011]

I think it was about 20 years ago I got my hands on the year or so of SUB-MARINER where Bill Everett was FINALLY "allowed" to come back and take over HIS CHARACTER.  And it was INCREDIBLE!  Not only some of the best stuff I'd ever seen him him, by the widest possible margin, some of the best SUB-MARINER issues I'd ever seen.

On the letters page, one fan summed it up nicely.  "After 49 UNREADABLE issues, the book finally GOT GOOD."  No S***.  Roy Thomas had been twiddling his thumbs for years, then his good buddy Gerry Conway did EVEN WORSE.  The odd decent issue here or there didn't make up what a mess it all was.  And how can one forgive Thomas KILLING off Lady Dorma, on the very eve of her long-anticipated wedding, just because Thomasd was then going thru a divorce?  F*** YOU, Roy!   


I'd read John Romita say in an interview that while on AMAZING SPIDER-MAN, he was the "de facto editor" of the book.  I suspect the same thing happened when Everett came back.  His health problems forced a lot of fill-in artists, but during his time back, those fill-in artists were universally superior in quality.  The instant he passed away, the book went RIGHT THRU THE FLOOR.  Don Heck, George Tuska, John Romita covers and Gil Kane covers?  ALL of it was dreadful.

Insanely, Marv Wolfman, George Tuska & Vince Colletta-- 3 guys who probably never should have touched the book-- did in my view the SINGLE best issue post-Everett.  Somehow, everything "clicked".  But the next issue was so-so, and the one after that was a fill-in just before the book was cancelled.  What a shame.  And SUPER-VILLAIN TEAM-UP never should have happened.



The biggest shock for me on getting those Everett issues was Namorita.  WHO in the 70s would create a teenage sidekick?   I always liked her, but Everett's version of her was just ADORABLE.  I was particularly surprised when in one issue, she had a line of dialogue that was nearly-IDENTICAL to a line spoken by my favorite Bond girl 8 YEARS later, in the film FOR YOUR EYES ONLY.  It made me wonder if whoever came up with or cast Lynn-Holly Johnson as "Bibi Dahl" might have been a fan of Bill Everett.