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[Captain Audio]

A Deputy US Marshall could also serve as a de facto Town Sheriff under certain conditions.

[The Australian Panther]

(i.e. why in The World was Chief Inspector LeStrade sent to the moors of northern England or Scotland to investigate murder cases involving ordinary (albeit extremely wealthy) citizens?  Was he a UK Federal Agent? 

Seriously?
Because Conan Doyle wrote it that way.
In any case,

Metropolitan Police officers have legal jurisdiction throughout all of England and Wales, including areas that have their own special police forces, such as the Ministry of Defence, as do all police officers of territorial police forces.[28] Officers also have limited powers in Scotland and Northern Ireland

So it makes sense, if the case was considered of significance.

Are their Regional or Metro Area police forces for the major Cities like London, Glasgow, Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool?

Well, even I have watched enough UK police shows to know about the London Met.
Metropolitan Police
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police
And here's Edinburgh - Police Scotland - where the fictional detective REBUS works, if I have it right.
https://www.scotland.police.uk/your-community/edinburgh/

Cheers!

[Robb_K]

A Deputy US Marshall could also serve as a de facto Town Sheriff under certain conditions.

Yes, IF Federal interests were involved, OR local authorities declared an emergency, and asked The Federal Government for help, or The Federal Government declared the situation disaster or some kind of dire emergency with the protection of the residents required.  But, even in those cases, I don't believe that the Deputy Marshal would become a "Sheriff" and be employed by a county.  He would be a Federal employee, taking orders from his Federal superior officers, still in The Federal system, being assigned to keep the peace in a local jurisdiction given as aid to that agency, IF it was a county inside a state.  If it was a town inside a territory, it would already be in the federal jurisdiction, and it would simply be the jurisdictional organisation sending reinforcements to that portion of its jurisdiction.

[paw broon]

Well, I can tell you a wee bit about how Scotland is set up.  We have a parliament but there are a number of powers reserved to the Westminster parliament.  As the Scottish legal system is different to that of England things are a done a bit differently here.  Policing is done through Police Scotland, an amalgamation of all the local police areas in the country, and, yes, Rebus is a D.I in Edinburgh. The show Shetland features Douglas Henshall as D.I. Jimmy Perez, Police Scotland.
Scotland also has a different and independent education system and the NHS (National Health Service) here is run from Edinburgh. The Holyrood parliament has very little options as far as taxis concerned, most being reserved to Westminster. As is defence and foreign relations.  Our railway, Scotrail, has recently been nationalised having been run by a private companies in the past who made a bit of a mess of the service.  Unfortunately we are in the middle of an industrial relations problem as the union wants a big pay hike. 
But back to policing.  Although police in Scotland are not armed as a rule, there are firearms officers and they are visible at times of potential trouble.  Potential criminal cases are put before the Procurator Fiscal where the decisions are made as to whether they can go to trial. We don't have sheriffs or marshalls as such but there are traditional titles with nothing to do nowadays with the law.
Robb, LeStrade was a Scotland Yard officer and it was normal for a police force who couldn't solve a serious case or didn't have the manpower or facilities to send for a Scotland Yard detective. You might enjoy many of the British Library releases of classic British crime novels currently on sale. Lots of Scotland Yard detectives turning up in more remote areas.
  Customs and excise - sorry, I should say HM Revenue and Customs officers tend to be seen only at airports and ports.
Serious crime, Special Branch, NCA are all, I think, part of British policing as opposed to different agencies.
Can't remember if British Transport Police in Scotland have been absorbed by Police Scotland.
Hope I haven't bored you. And pleas correct me if I got this stuff wrong.

[Robb_K]

Well, I can tell you a wee bit about how Scotland is set up.  We have a parliament but there are a number of powers reserved to the Westminster parliament.  As the Scottish legal system is different to that of England things are a done a bit differently here.  Policing is done through Police Scotland, an amalgamation of all the local police areas in the country,
The Holyrood parliament has very little options as far as taxis concerned, most being reserved to Westminster. As is defence and foreign relations. 
Although police in Scotland are not armed as a rule, there are firearms officers and they are visible at times of potential trouble.  Potential criminal cases are put before the Procurator Fiscal where the decisions are made as to whether they can go to trial. We don't have sheriffs or marshalls as such but there are traditional titles with nothing to do nowadays with the law.
Robb, LeStrade was a Scotland Yard officer and it was normal for a police force who couldn't solve a serious case or didn't have the manpower or facilities to send for a Scotland Yard detective. You might enjoy many of the British Library releases of classic British crime novels currently on sale. Lots of Scotland Yard detectives turning up in more remote areas.
Serious crime, Special Branch, NCA are all, I think, part of British policing as opposed to different agencies.

Thanks for the scoop on Scotland.  I had a feeling that Conan-Doyle wouldn't use any institutional situations that were not possible.  So, it was as I surmised, that The UK national police system would handle cases where the local police entity didn't have the manpower or expertise to handle the situation.  The difference between The UK and Canada and USA is that the two North American former colonies had large areas of very sparsely-settled territories that needed a large force to cover, and often had policing problems that involved international issues.  So a Federal policing agency, independent of the provinces and states, was needed.  Such a national agency could also police Federally-owned lands, border crossings, interstate transportation systems, and interstate and international situations inside the individual states and provinces, and support state and provincial and local police forces in situations they can't handle alone, and need support.  So, in the two giant North American nations, an extra level or two of separate policing systems are more practical, and the different systems are tied together closely enough that there working in cooperation in both emergency and non-emergency situations is common, and is easily initiated. Whereas, The UK is small and compact enough to have the different levels of government's policing handled by autonomous different departments, basically more tied together within the same system.  The only difference is that The US and Canadian systems have a little more official red tape formalities to go through for the lower-level systems to get requested help from the higher, and, in some cases, the lower level departments may resent a higher department's perceived "horning in on the lower department's territory unwanted in that situation (e.g. when The Federal Government perceives that there is Federal interest in a case that the locals feel they can and should handle alone, without interference).

I appreciate finally learning about The UK system.  And I have learned that there are no County policing entities in The UK.  But, I would still like to know about what functions their county governments provide.

[paw broon]

Okey dokey, I'll get back to you but Scotland is in some ways different to England.  Dinner first.

[Robb_K]

The Traditional counties in The UK have been divided into smaller administrative units, and reorganised several times in the 1960s and 1970s.  Here is a blurb outlining the new administrative units' functions:

"After 1974 in England and Wales, administrative counties provided police and fire services, education, social welfare services, public transport, traffic regulation, consumer protection, libraries, and some highways and parks. The county council was the general governing board of the administrative county; it was a large body, with 50 to 100 popularly elected members, and much of its basic administrative work was delegated to committees. In 1975 the 34 administrative counties of Scotland were replaced by nine administrative regions, each subdivided into a number of districts."

I assume that the difference between The UK system and The Canadian and US systems is that The UK's Federal Government has more direct control over its counties' operations (e.g. the two systems are tied together much more closely), whereas the additional level of government between them in Canada (provinces) and USA (states) are independent entities, which have their own powers, and whose consent is often required for cooperation between them and their Federal Government to occur.  So that, basically, an extra level of red tape exists.  For example, The US and Canadian Federal Governments sometimes collect taxes for their State/Provincial and county governments, and, later, parcel them out and send them to the subordinate governments, and other state/prov. taxes are collected directly by the lower, subordinate governments.

The major difference between The UK and the two North American nations in policing seems to be that US has different, entire police agencies/department systems for cities, counties, states, and national (Federal) governmental entities, and Canada has them for cities, metro areas, provinces, and national(Federal) government (4 levels, each, under relatively independent conditions), whereas The UK basically has only one, large national system, in which they operate three separate levels,(1) (local (cities/towns or semi-rural larger areas); (2) Metro; (3) National/Federal , with Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland having a few limited powers as an adjunct to the basic Federal UK-wide system.  And all 3 of these levels are basically integrated into the same single system, whereas in Canada, and even moreso in USA, they are independent entities, required to cooperate with the agencies of the other levels.

[paw broon]

Right, local government. Here we have local councils defined by the Scottish government. e.g. Stiirling; West Lothian: Borders; Monklands and so on. Elections for councillors are broken up into wards using the transferable vote system. Instead of ticking one box for the candidate of your choice, you list in order of preference- 1, 2, 3 etc.  You don't have to pick more then one though.
These councils control local public transport, local roads, refuse collection, local schools, planning permissions, libraries, social work locally,  you get the idea.   
Elections for MSPs to Holyrood use the additional member system, designed to stop one party always having a majority.
They control, well, see here
https://www.gov.scot/about/what-the-government-does/
The British govt at Westminster is in overall control of defence etc. First past the post, which isn't very good when there are more than 2 parties, as is the case.

Once again, please correct me if there are errors.

[SuperScrounge]

Wikipedia's entry on the Metropolitan Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police

[K1ngcat]

Wikipedia's entry on the Metropolitan Police https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_Police

Fascinating stuff, SS, unfortunately the article doesn't include information on the number of sex offenders, rapists, racists, murderers, mysogynists, homophobes, extortionists, bribe-takers, liars, thugs and bullies currently employed by the Met. Remind me if I've missed anyone out...

[crashryan]

As long as we're on the subject, the roles of the Sheriff's Department and the Police Department are especially complicated in the Los Angeles metropolitan area. The LAPD has jurisdiction over the city of Los Angeles while the Sheriff's Department, a county organization, has jurisdiction over non-incorporated areas (that is, areas which aren't part of either LA or of another city). What makes it complicated is that the LA area is so huge and the City's development was so chaotic that many places the general public thinks of as "Los Angeles" are either separate cities or unincorporated areas. Whenever there's an election for Mayor of Los Angeles a slew of voters wonder why the race doesn't show up on their official ballots. They didn't realize that they were either residents of one of the small municipalities which seem to be in Los Angeles but aren't, or they live in one of the unincorporated zones that dot the landscape. Further muddling things is the fact that some of the smaller cities, lacking the budget to fund things like a Fire Department (typically a city responsibility), strike deals with the City of LA to service their area.

In a metropolitan area this big and this jumbled inevitably the different agencies bang up against each other. Sometimes turf fights arise. The Los Angeles Police Department is legendary (rightly so) for its corruption and misuse of force, but even they play second fiddle to the Sheriff's Department. The two leviathans are currently feuding over control of the Metro light rail and bus lines. Metro is a County-level organization, but presently the job of policing the trains, stations, and busses is split between the sheriff and the police departments of Los Angeles and Long Beach, the cities at either end of the region. Until about five years ago the Sheriff's Department controlled the entire operation. They were renowned for their contemptuous attitude toward the public, their racism, and their tendency to use (shall we say) a heavy hand while enforcing non-criminal infractions of the rules.

Now our present sheriff, who runs the department as his personal fiefdom and has resisted every attempt to force transparency and/or responsibility upon the organization, is demanding that Metro scrap the arrangement and return to the Sheriff sole jurisdiction over policing the train stops as well as enforcing the "passenger code of conduct" which regulates things like playing loud music, hawking merchandise on the train, and pissing on the platform. To back up his demand he's threatened to remove his some 300 officers from their posts, theoretically leaving those portions of the line without cops. To support his proposal he's trotted out all the classic knee-jerk lines about rising crime, noble deputies unable do their job, etc. etc. He never seems to mention that by reverting to the sheriff-only plan, many millions of dollars that presently go to pay LA and Long Beach for Metro policing would now flow into the Sheriff's Department.

It's life in the Big City!

[paw broon]

Yes Blues Man, a few omissions. But hasn't the Met long been noted for instances of corruption?  Nothing changes it seems.

[bowers]

Paw, nothing changes, indeed! Here's an instance where a famous "lawman" in our area also ran the local vice.
https://www.historynet.com/wyatt-earp-turned-business-idaho/   This was a very rough area, where clandestine  gambling and prostitution was still tolerated until the early 1960's. The "hotels" in Wallace Idaho even advertised on their matchbooks! It's impossible that the local gendarmes were unaware of this. I believe one of the "hotels" has even been turned into a local museum. Cheers, Bowers

[The Australian Panther]

Bat Masterson 2
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=38913
I remember Gene Barry as Masterson in the original TV show, when TV was new and cowboy shows were everywhere.
This show stood out, Bat was immaculately dressed as later would be Steed in the Avengers. He was tough, masculine but not rough.
The Lead Souvenir
That first page should be mandatory for anyvbody going to a school and studying comics.
Straight into the action, Cane vs Gun in close-up - Cane wins! and on the first page we have coming revenge  set up.
Another artist using an existing character as a model, I think. The close-up in panel 3 looks somewhat like Richard Boone to me.
'Jail Delivery'. new expression to me, but no doubt quite accurate.
Scrounge said,

  'performs back surgery in a non-sterile environment, crook regains use of his legs and doesn't die of infection and warns hero of criminal plot, yeahhhhhh... 

Well, the artist doesn't have room to spend a page on the details of the surgery. In any case, that sort of thing was not uncommon until recently. Doctors were few and far between. What is somewhat unlikely is that Bat was digging around near the spine and got the bullet out and he's walking around fairly soon. That he would owe Bat a debt and find a way to pay it off is quite realistic.
The story works and has quite a lot of detail for a short story. Very succinct.
I choose not to read text stories as a general rule.
The Red-Hot ringer.
First panel, dialog and image gives you three characters and context instantly.
I love the way the art amplifies the elements in the story.
The boys face panel 4 first page shows puzzlement, Top of page 3, the Blacksmith's face, he is planning something, and the impatience and anger on the strangers face. 
The Vanishing Gandy Dancers
A lot of words on the first page, but he is on site at the raliway by the last panel.   
Next page. Panel 1 sets the scene, action starts panel 2, Panel 3 shading and atmosphere. Panel 4 great widescreeen action. Blow up the page and put it on your wall!
The story works, as a story.  Gaylord Du Bois was adept at assembling the elements he needed to make a story work, but he apparently wasn't adverse to stretching a point at times.
He needed something that the chief owed Bat, so Bat could get the information.
But bringing him into town to buy guns? I'm not sure there weren't regulations to prevent Indians buying guns.
The two one page 'history' pieces. I don't mind these, they are often quite informative.
Unusual to see a comic page on the outside back page tho!
When I was an adolescent reading this stuff, I never appreciated just how good Paul S Newman and Gaylord Du Bois were as writers. Didn't know their names of course, and they don't have a clearly identifiable style.
Cheers!           


       

[The Australian Panther]

Four Colour 0675 - Steve Donovan Western Marshall
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=34869
Crash said,

I vaguely remember seeing an episode of this series when I was very young. IMDB tells me it was an independent syndicated series that ran a single season.

 
I never knew that there was a "Western Marshall' western TV series.
STEVE DONOVAN, WESTERN MARSHALL 1955 Douglas Kennedy famous gun twirling opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlIDulkQrh8
But Dell also ran
Ernest Haycox's Western Marshal who was Dan Mitchell.
Kinstler did the art on both.
There are a number of these on CB+ and they are worth seeking out.
One of the reasons I chose these comics was to draw attention to the treasures in the Dell section.
There are many comics  just listed under 'four colour comics' and it pays to look at them in detail. The 1942 series has #472 comics.
Rusty Lee.
There always had to be an old codger - often for comedy releif- in these things on the screen. I think that provided the character someone to talk to - to explain plot points.
Confusion on page 2 where two characters have the same colour vests.
Page 5, center panel. The lines of the buildings and railing push your eyes toward the action. Kinstler uses this technique several times in this story.
This is subliminal. Kirby for one, used it a lot on his covers, particularly in the 50's.
This story is a pretty standard one for a western, but this is also a master-class from writer and artist as to how to make a bog-standard story work and be interesting.
Somewhere, someone pointed out that there are only seven basic story formulas for westerns.
Not sure I agree, but most writers only seem to use a few basic stories.
Look at the last panel on page #30. Tension, patience, anticipation. And words and image work together to create this.
The 'Big' rancher's change of heart on the final page is a bit corny, but one of the shortcomings of a comic story is having to fit in a lot in a short time.
I wanted to get away from superheroes for a time. And I hope I've encouraged some to take a look at the Dell archive.
KIngcat's choice tomorrow. Can't wait!       

[Robb_K]

Four Colour 0675 - Steve Donovan Western Marshall
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=34869
Crash said,

I vaguely remember seeing an episode of this series when I was very young. IMDB tells me it was an independent syndicated series that ran a single season.

 
I never knew that there was a "Western Marshall' western TV series.
STEVE DONOVAN, WESTERN MARSHALL 1955 Douglas Kennedy famous gun twirling opening
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlIDulkQrh8
But Dell also ran
Ernest Haycox's Western Marshal who was Dan Mitchell.
Kinstler did the art on both.
There are a number of these on CB+ and they are worth seeking out.
One of the reasons I chose these comics was to draw attention to the treasures in the Dell section.
There are many comics  just listed under 'four colour comics' and it pays to look at them in detail. The 1942 series has #472 comics.

As far as I know, Dell ad a Four Color Comics series in 1939, which had less than 200 issues.  And its 1942-1962 series had about 1336 or 1337 issues.  I'm sure I, myself, quite a few more than 472 different issues.  Where did you get the 472 figure?  The Steve Donovan book we are reviewing, itself, is issue #675, and, I'm sure that almost every number (if not ALL assigned numbers) each had a commercial issue release.

[The Australian Panther]

The # 472 figure is from CB+'s lists, that's the way they have been catalogued, and I wanted to point out that there are 472 books there that you need to go through individually to find out what they are.
They are not the only ones catalogued as just 'Four Colour'

Cheers!   

[Robb_K]

The # 472 figure is from CB+'s lists, that's the way they have been catalogued, and I wanted to point out that there are 472 books there that you need to go through individually to find out what they are.
They are not the only ones catalogued as just 'Four Colour'
Cheers!   

Ah.... Now I understand.  The 472 books are all PD, and all of Four Color Series II's PD issues that CB+ has uploaded.  Most of the several hundred I have are non-PD, being the cartoon-based Disney, WB, MGM, Walter Lantz, Walt Kelly, etc.