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Re: McHale's Navy 2

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topic icon Author Topic: Re: McHale's Navy 2  (Read 547 times)

The Australian Panther

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« on: July 17, 2022, 02:00:01 AM »

Well the inker here is Vince Colletta who has softened the work and made it more acceptable, but the artist is still clearly copying faces from stills. Which is why, characters are having conversations but not looking at each other.
Middle panel page 2 for example, Bingham is blowing his top but looking into the distance, not engaging with McHale. McHale has no eyes, and why is he not clean-shaven?
But, you are right, the script is good and the scripter may have been working from one supplied from the show.
All in all, I would show these McHale's to a beginner as examples of what not to do!
Thanks for pointing them our. Fascinating!

Link to the book: McHale's Navy 2
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crashryan

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2022, 03:35:31 AM »

Speaking from experience, if an artist is instructed to do likenesses he's severely limited by the number and quality of stills the client provides. Few artists, even the best ones, can fake a convincing likeness at an angle for which they don't have reference--for instance you need a profile but all your stills are three-quarter shots. Some clients allow the artist to draw a "sorta-like" character who looks enough like the actor to get the nod. Alex Toth, Dan Spiegle, and Mike Sekowsky often did that in Dell and Gold Key movie/TV comics. On the other hand if the client is a stickler for likenesses and bounces anything that doesn't look exactly like the actor, then you pop those stills in the old Art-O-Graph and trace them over and over. In this issue look how many times the McHale head in page 4, panel 5 reappears. Or the "Binghampton strokes his chin" shot.

Of course the same thing happens if the artist knows he isn't too hot at likenesses and wants to play it safe. I don't know why, but the ability to capture a likeness freehand and the ability to draw good figures don't necessarily come together. Neal Adamses are few and far between. You'll see superb comic artists who can't do good likenesses and you'll see excellent likeness-getters, portrait artists, for example, who don't draw all that well. There aren't that many movie or TV comics these days, but I speculate that it would be easier to draw one than it was in the McHale's Navy days. You can grab hundreds of frames and get character reference from every angle the director saw fit to photograph.
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professor echo

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Re: Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2022, 09:32:16 PM »

Yes, you can definitely see the same art of Joe Flynn as Binghamton throughout the issue, taken from a often reprinted photo of the actor in character. It didn?t bother me much, but thanks to both of you for enlightening me on aspects of these comics I wasn?t previously aware of.

I?ve read some very good Dell/Gold Key comic TV adaptations, but with some you get the impression that no one involved ever saw a single episode of the series. 
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crashryan

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2022, 03:14:42 AM »

Quote
I've read some very good Dell/Gold Key comic TV adaptations, but with some you get the impression that no one involved ever saw a single episode of the series. 

Sometimes that's really the case. I know mostly about the art, but since scripts precede art it's likely scriptwriters had even more problems. Frank Thorne drew Dell's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea before the movie's cast was finalized. He was told to just make something up. On the other hand the production design was finished, so Thorne got scads of productions stills of the sub, diving suits, interiors, and such. There must have been a similar situation with Disney's Treasure Island, because John Ushler's characters in the comic, most notably Long John Silver, don't remotely resemble their movie counterparts.

Another factor to consider is that the heyday of movie and TV adaptations came before VCR's. It's safe to say that the early issues of most TV comics were produced before the shows aired. The only way to see an episode was to be invited to a screening by the producers. This wasn't always possible. I have the impression that most production companies didn't consider comic adaptations important enough to merit special screenings. The best known example of working in the dark is Gold Key's Star Trek comics. The art was farmed out to an Italian studio. The series not having appeared in Italy, the Italian artists had to work from a script and a handful of stills with no further knowledge of the show. That's why they got almost everything wrong in the early issues. As I understand it one of the American scriptwriters finally took it upon himself to supply them with more reference photos and an explanation of how everything worked.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2022, 05:27:29 AM »

Quote
The art was farmed out to an Italian studio. The series not having appeared in Italy, the Italian artists had to work from a script and a handful of stills with no further knowledge of the show. That's why they got almost everything wrong in the early issues.

Yes, true, but the art is terrific! Alberto Giolitti was great.
Never realized just how fanatic Star Trek fans really are.
Here are two sites totally dedicated to Star Trek comics!
Guide to the Gold Key Star trek comics.
http://curtdanhauser.com/Main.html
This guy doesn't seem interested in the artists and writers But this next one does.
Star Trek comics checklist.
https://www.startrekcomics.info/goldkey.html
What comes as surprise to me is that from May 1971, Len Wein was writing this!
One problem with this kind of adaptation is that you are confined by the limits of the TV series or movie, you can't do anything radical with a character. 
Alberto Giolitti deserves to be much better known than he is.
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/g/giolitti_alberto.htm
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He settled in the United States in 1949, where he began his long association with the comic books published by Dell/Western Publishing. 

Quote
Giolitti returned to Rome, Italy, in 1962, but continued to draw 'Turok, Son of Stone' for the American market until 1982. Starting in 1968, he also drew a comic based on the popular TV series 'Star Trek'. To keep up with the workload, he often called in the help of fellow artists like Giovanni Ticci, Massimo Belardinelli, Giorgio Cambiotti, Mario Pedrazzi and Angelo Todaro...... He founded the Giolitti Studios, that consisted of about about 55 artists, who produced hundreds of pages a month for national and international publishers. The studios initially worked mainly for the German and British markets.

I'm thinking his studio was the one that established the contacts for the Spanish and Italian artists that have been prominent in the English-Speaking comic world ever since.
With those Star Treks, I like looking at his art more than I like the stories.
Cheers! 
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crashryan

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2022, 05:47:00 AM »

Quote
Yes, true, but the art is terrific! Alberto Giolitti was great.


I bow to none in my admiration for Alberto Giolitti, but I must offer a small correction. The first two issues of Gold Key's Star Trek were drawn (through Studio Giolitti)  by Nevio Zeccara. Zeccara was a prolific Italian artist with a knack for hardware. He drew quite a few British war comics in the 60s and 70s. His US work included some short stories in The Twilight Zone. Here's his Lambiek page:

https://www.lambiek.net/artists/z/zeccara_nevio.htm
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The Australian Panther

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2022, 05:57:00 AM »

I didn't actually say that Giolitti drew all of them, but you are right, I should have pointed that out. And the last ones were drawn by Alden McWilliams.
In the meantime, I have just discovered this site dedicated to Giolitti. And it has many full-page and full story examples of his work, many I was not aware of.
http://www.albertogiolitti.com/index.php   
Enjoy!     
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professor echo

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Re: McHale's Navy 2
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2022, 02:04:43 PM »


Quote
I've read some very good Dell/Gold Key comic TV adaptations, but with some you get the impression that no one involved ever saw a single episode of the series. 

Sometimes that's really the case. I know mostly about the art, but since scripts precede art it's likely scriptwriters had even more problems. Frank Thorne drew Dell's Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Sea before the movie's cast was finalized. He was told to just make something up. On the other hand the production design was finished, so Thorne got scads of productions stills of the sub, diving suits, interiors, and such. There must have been a similar situation with Disney's Treasure Island, because John Ushler's characters in the comic, most notably Long John Silver, don't remotely resemble their movie counterparts.

Another factor to consider is that the heyday of movie and TV adaptations came before VCR's. It's safe to say that the early issues of most TV comics were produced before the shows aired. The only way to see an episode was to be invited to a screening by the producers. This wasn't always possible. I have the impression that most production companies didn't consider comic adaptations important enough to merit special screenings. The best known example of working in the dark is Gold Key's Star Trek comics. The art was farmed out to an Italian studio. The series not having appeared in Italy, the Italian artists had to work from a script and a handful of stills with no further knowledge of the show. That's why they got almost everything wrong in the early issues. As I understand it one of the American scriptwriters finally took it upon himself to supply them with more reference photos and an explanation of how everything worked.


Very, very interesting information and background on these particular comics.  I really appreciate your knowledge and resourcefulness on the subject, crashryan!
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