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Reading Group # 288 What lurks behind the red Tab? Does the Shadow know?

Pages: 1 [2]

topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group # 288 What lurks behind the red Tab? Does the Shadow know?  (Read 1635 times)

K1ngcat

  • VIP


Well,
this has been interesting.
So far this fortnight, we have had more activity on the previous post than on this one.
I know the primary purpose of this thread is reading the choices and commenting on them.
I also know that sometimes the best result is the discussions that come out of the tangents we go off on.
But, this time, I haven't gotten the response I was hoping for.
I stated,
I'm going to choose my posts from these lists this fortnight.
But I also have the question, are these lists, in fact, regularly updated?
Because they give a view of CB+ which is quite different of that which we regular poster have.

I am not convinced that these lists are currently regularly updated.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Consider;-
The 'Top Downloads' seems accurate if the numbers are accurate.
So, Treasure Chest v15 01 has been downloaded 13014 times.
So, probably accurrate. Except to me it seems unlikely.
What was so special about this issue particularly?
Also, I'm pretty sure it was at the top of the list a year ago, if not for much longer.
Has nothing uploaded since 2009 beaten its record?
The 'Top Rated' list is even more peculiar.
4 little Nemo books are at the top of the list.
one has been rated once, two have been rated twice and one has been rated 3 times.
Now, I'm pretty sure from memory there must be some out there that have been rated 4 times or more.
[See below]
Clearly I'm missing something here, and I'm happy to have my ignorance pointed out to me.
It seems that list is created by an individual or an off-site panel, since it seems to be a list of what somebody thinks are the best/most important/ most expensive comics? How do you contribute to this list?
Maybe a new Poll is in order?
Because, the Most Rated list has Buster Brown topping the list with 87 votes.
That makes sense.
Most comments.
Amazing Adventures 1  tops the list with 18 comments.
Fair enough!
Most views is claimed by Fantastic Worlds 7 with a whopping 54402 views!   
Why did 54,000 people download this particular book?
Was it referred to in Overstreet?
Random comics.
I would have thought this would update every time you chose it, which would make it a very useful function.
But it doesn't appear to do so.
Anyway, my comments on the chosen books on the weekend, and Robb is still too busy, so Quirky will be along Monday!             


Well honestly Panther, until you drew my attention to it, I didn't know that the red tab did anything except show the most recent uploads, so it's all a surprise to me. A lot of the results look fair enough, a few are surprising, but what surprises me most is the suggestion that the Top Rated list is created by an individual or an off site panel.

Do we have a conspiracy theory here? I know they're very popular at the moment. If we genuinely think that the site or its choices are arranged by human agents rather than on-site robots, it'd be easy enough to PM the boss and ask him personally? I've contacted him in the past and he seems very approachable.

I'm with QQ when she suggests that there are probably plenty of lurkers around who read or download but don't comment, I've seen a similar situation on one of my favourite Blues sites. I have no idea how many members subscribe to CB+ but I'd like to think that there are more people interested than just we few on the Reading Group. Can we get statistics from anywhere or anyone?

I'd be interested to see what can be unearthed.
Meanwhile all the best
K1ngcat
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Quirky Quokka

  • VIP



I'm with QQ when she suggests that there are probably plenty of lurkers around who read or download but don't comment, I've seen a similar situation on one of my favourite Blues sites. I have no idea how many members subscribe to CB+ but I'd like to think that there are more people interested than just we few on the Reading Group. Can we get statistics from anywhere or anyone?

I'd be interested to see what can be unearthed.
Meanwhile all the best
K1ngcat


I'm sure Mark can tell us how many subscribers there are, but I did find one interesting thing. On the 'Introduce Yourself' forum, there are 19 pages with about 50 per page. Now there might be some double-ups, but I'm assuming most people would only introduce themselves once? So that's a fair few people who've joined at some point, and I assume there would be many more who may not have wanted to introduce themselves. There would be some who visit the site just to read the comics and don't post anything. Of those who do post, some forums get more hits for whatever reason.

I might be a bit different (some would say weird) because I already like reviewing things and have reviewed over 450 books on Goodreads. So when I was roaming around the site and saw there was a reading forum, it was easy for me to jump in and add my two cents worth. The fact that you're a nice bunch helped. But some might find that a bit daunting.

Cheers

QQ
« Last Edit: January 20, 2023, 04:38:10 AM by Quirky Quokka »
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paw broon

  • Administrator

As I'm as techy as a black pudding supper, I can't shed any light on how it all works.
But, there are a lot of lurkers.
It's a shame we have so few female members, although we might have a fair few but they stay silent.
Not being as knowledgable as some of you, I tend not to comment often.  I do believe the site is in It's own golden age right now and long may it last. 
Good fun, great knowledge, good patter and our scanners and uploaders supply us with piles of comics.
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP


Well,
this has been interesting.
So far this fortnight, we have had more activity on the previous post than on this one.
I know the primary purpose of this thread is reading the choices and commenting on them.
I also know that sometimes the best result is the discussions that come out of the tangents we go off on.
But, this time, I haven't gotten the response I was hoping for.
I stated,
I'm going to choose my posts from these lists this fortnight.
But I also have the question, are these lists, in fact, regularly updated?
Because they give a view of CB+ which is quite different of that which we regular poster have.
(1) I am not convinced that these lists are currently regularly updated.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Consider;-
The 'Top Downloads' seems accurate if the numbers are accurate.
(2) So, Treasure Chest v15 01 has been downloaded 13014 times.
So, probably accurrate. Except to me it seems unlikely
.
What was so special about this issue particularly?
Also, I'm pretty sure it was at the top of the list a year ago, if not for much longer.
Has nothing uploaded since 2009 beaten its record?
The 'Top Rated' list is even more peculiar.
4 little Nemo books are at the top of the list.
one has been rated once, two have been rated twice and one has been rated 3 times.
Now, I'm pretty sure from memory there must be some out there that have been rated 4 times or more.
[See below]
Clearly I'm missing something here, and I'm happy to have my ignorance pointed out to me.
It seems that list is created by an individual or an off-site panel, since it seems to be a list of what somebody thinks are the best/most important/ most expensive comics? How do you contribute to this list?
Maybe a new Poll is in order?
Because, the Most Rated list has Buster Brown topping the list with 87 votes.
That makes sense.
Most comments.
Amazing Adventures 1  tops the list with 18 comments.
Fair enough!
Most views is claimed by Fantastic Worlds 7 with a whopping 54402 views!   
Why did 54,000 people download this particular book?
Was it referred to in Overstreet?
Random comics.
I would have thought this would update every time you chose it, which would make it a very useful function.
But it doesn't appear to do so.
Anyway, my comments on the chosen books on the weekend, and Robb is still too busy, so Quirky will be along Monday!             


(1) I agree that the lists seem to have statistics that don't match my idea of who would be using this website and also who, from among them, would be participating in giving feedback.

(2) It also seems unlikely to me that this particular Treasure Chest issue would be downloaded 13,000+ times.  But, considering that it has been available here for over 10 years, I guess that is possible.  I'm convinced that many, many times more people read and download books from this website than join as members, and especially many, many, many times more people download than participate in The Forum, introduce themselves, and participate in polls, and in giving feedback in the form of answering questions.

I, myself, joined this website as a member very recently, in 2019. But, I had started reading and downloading books here (page by page using screen shots) for more than 10 years before that.  I know at least 40-50 comic book collectors who download here and DCM regularly, who don't participate in ether site's fora, nor in their polls, and give no feedback.  They not only want to remain anonymous, but also believe that they can't spare the time to spend on those activities, but probably are secretly afraid they'll like it too much, and get addicted to those activities, and spend too much time away from what is important to them now, or what "should" be important to them.
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Robb_K

  • VIP



Well,
this has been interesting.
So far this fortnight, we have had more activity on the previous post than on this one.
I know the primary purpose of this thread is reading the choices and commenting on them.
I also know that sometimes the best result is the discussions that come out of the tangents we go off on.
But, this time, I haven't gotten the response I was hoping for.
I stated,
I'm going to choose my posts from these lists this fortnight.
But I also have the question, are these lists, in fact, regularly updated?
Because they give a view of CB+ which is quite different of that which we regular poster have.

I am not convinced that these lists are currently regularly updated.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Consider;-
The 'Top Downloads' seems accurate if the numbers are accurate.
So, Treasure Chest v15 01 has been downloaded 13014 times.
So, probably accurrate. Except to me it seems unlikely.
What was so special about this issue particularly?
Also, I'm pretty sure it was at the top of the list a year ago, if not for much longer.
Has nothing uploaded since 2009 beaten its record?
The 'Top Rated' list is even more peculiar.
4 little Nemo books are at the top of the list.
one has been rated once, two have been rated twice and one has been rated 3 times.
Now, I'm pretty sure from memory there must be some out there that have been rated 4 times or more.
[See below]
Clearly I'm missing something here, and I'm happy to have my ignorance pointed out to me.
It seems that list is created by an individual or an off-site panel, since it seems to be a list of what somebody thinks are the best/most important/ most expensive comics? How do you contribute to this list?
Maybe a new Poll is in order?
Because, the Most Rated list has Buster Brown topping the list with 87 votes.
That makes sense.
Most comments.
Amazing Adventures 1  tops the list with 18 comments.
Fair enough!
Most views is claimed by Fantastic Worlds 7 with a whopping 54402 views!   
Why did 54,000 people download this particular book?
Was it referred to in Overstreet?
Random comics.
I would have thought this would update every time you chose it, which would make it a very useful function.
But it doesn't appear to do so.
Anyway, my comments on the chosen books on the weekend, and Robb is still too busy, so Quirky will be along Monday!             


Well honestly Panther, until you drew my attention to it, I didn't know that the red tab did anything except show the most recent uploads, so it's all a surprise to me. A lot of the results look fair enough, a few are surprising, but what surprises me most is the suggestion that the Top Rated list is created by an individual or an off site panel.

Do we have a conspiracy theory here? I know they're very popular at the moment. If we genuinely think that the site or its choices are arranged by human agents rather than on-site robots, it'd be easy enough to PM the boss and ask him personally? I've contacted him in the past and he seems very approachable.

I'm with QQ when she suggests that there are probably plenty of lurkers around who read or download but don't comment, I've seen a similar situation on one of my favourite Blues sites. I have no idea how many members subscribe to CB+ but I'd like to think that there are more people interested than just we few on the Reading Group. Can we get statistics from anywhere or anyone?

I'd be interested to see what can be unearthed.
Meanwhile all the best
K1ngcat


As I stated in my previous post, I would bet the farm that there are many thousands of lurkers visiting and using this site, regularly, who don't participate in this forum, or its polls, or provide feedback.
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SuperScrounge

  • VIP

I have a vague memory of someone years ago asking why a certain book had a high number of downloads and Mark(?) saying it was a bot that had gotten stuck downloading it over & over again.
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The Australian Panther

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Scrounge said, [Can I call you Scrounge?]
Quote
I have a vague memory of someone years ago asking why a certain book had a high number of downloads and Mark(?) saying it was a bot that had gotten stuck downloading it over & over again.


That sounds about right!
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crashryan

  • VIP & JVJ Project Member

I'm late to the table on this one. Cousin Frumson would not approve.

TREASURE CHEST 15.1

The Herbie-meets-Bunter star of The Champ's Treasure Hunt must have been popular with the readers, given the cover treatment. We barely get to know him, beyond the fact that he's always eating and he's fat FAT FAT!! Unlike Herbie, who's surreal, and Bunter, who's a rotter, Frumson doesn't seem to have a deeper personality. The script suggests that he has done great things, but for all I know he made that stuff up. Bunter would have. At chapter's end I don't care if I ever see him again. Regarding the chapter's end, the author has set up future skullduggery but the last panel is hardly a cliffhanger. As a kid I might not have bothered with another issue. However, the comic was urged on you by the Church. Maybe author Moss knew he had a large captive audience and felt safe in a more leisurely pace to his story.

Frank Borth's art is pretty good. I looked up his Lambiek bio and he seems to have been a nice guy. He had a very long career in comics until he lost vision in one eye. After that he painted landscapes until his death at 91. Borth drew a ton of stuff for Treasure Chest but he started out in newsstand comics. Didja know that he drew (and likely wrote) the cult classic "The Spider Widow and The Raven?" I somehow think Father John would not have approved.

The Acts of the Apostles is heavy going, though Sid Quinn's art isn't bad. I was struck by the fact that this book has the Comics Code seal (perhaps in case some copies were sold on the newsstand). Yet we are treated to pictures of a hanging and torture plus the depiction of a grave, all stuff the Code was leery of back in '59. Maybe Quinn got a free pass because the incidents were in the Bible. If so, can I draw the Lot and his Daughters adaptation? I can't? Umm.

The editor's column guilt trips his readers for not sending him letters, then takes a poke at them for watching TV westerns. I'm not crazy about his condescending attitude, but he's nothing next to Father John when it comes to proselytizing the kids.

The bird and science features were interesting enough. I'd have liked to know more about the avocet. I admit that cartoon #4 raised a smile.

We know exactly where the Chuck White story is headed but Borth's art is good and the script is pleasantly free of preaching. While bad apple Tony acts as over-the-top as any Charles Biro juvenile delinquent, I doubt he'll rob a cash register or shoot someone before seeing the light.

You've already noticed that Father John rubs me the wrong way. It figures he would feature a platitude about Making America Great Again from J. Edgar Hoover, the FBI's corrupt, paranoid emperor, who wrecked so many peoples' lives. One more thing: Father J's sermon begins with a vivid description of blood spurting from a smashed nose during a prize fight. Code, where art thy sting?

Patsy Manners is precisely the kind of feature I'd expect in a Sunday School comic. Is there no way to teach manners without beating the reader over the head? This is not just a Sunday School comic problem. The non-denominational Highlights for Children did the same thing for a generation in "Goofus and Gallant." I'd think showing characters behaving decently--without bragging about it--would go further than Patsy's lecturing her classmates and the reader.

Ozella Welch's art is competent but there's something unpleasant about the kids' weird mouths.

And the rest is meh.
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Quirky Quokka

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The Acts of the Apostles is heavy going, though Sid Quinn's art isn't bad. I was struck by the fact that this book has the Comics Code seal (perhaps in case some copies were sold on the newsstand). Yet we are treated to pictures of a hanging and torture plus the depiction of a grave, all stuff the Code was leery of back in '59. Maybe Quinn got a free pass because the incidents were in the Bible. If so, can I draw the Lot and his Daughters adaptation? I can't? Umm.

The editor's column guilt trips his readers for not sending him letters, then takes a poke at them for watching TV westerns. I'm not crazy about his condescending attitude, but he's nothing next to Father John when it comes to proselytizing the kids.


Crash, I recently picked up a good second-hand copy of The Action Bible, which is over 800 pages of Bible stories in graphic novel format. The art is by Sergio Cariello, a Brazilian artist who has worked for Marvel and DC. It has over 6000 ratings on Amazon and is almost universally praised (rating of 4.9 out of 5), but the few who don't like it, cite that it's not suitable for young kids because of some adult themes, including violence and some less than 'nice' stories. It probably is better suited to teens, so those who bought it for little kids have a fair point, but Bible stories are not all sweetness and light. Surprisingly, Lot's daughters didn't make it into the book  :D

I didn't like the condescending editor either. Nothing like leading with a guilt trip!

Cheers

QQ

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SuperScrounge

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Scrounge said, [Can I call you Scrounge?]

That's fine. SS, Scrounge, KAM, all are good and used at different places around the web.

Originally I got the nickname rockhounding because I would scrounge around finding rocks hither and yon. When our club started using CB radios for rock trips that became my CB name and I decided to use it here and at DCM because it sounds like an odd superhero name.  :)
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Comic Book Plus In-House Image

The Australian Panther

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Quote
I decided to use it here and at DCM because it sounds like an odd superhero name.   

I like it, its also unique and memorable which are big pluses for Avatar names!

Cheers!
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The Australian Panther

  • VIP

Just my reviews of the books themselves.

Treasure Chest v15 01
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=8168

It looks like this company was very different to work for than the secular publishers.
They wouldn't have been particularly profit oriented and so the production values seem quite high.   
The Champ's Treasure Hunt! (7 pages)
This is almost a textbook introduction to a serial,
Introduces all the characters, even the villains, the mcguffin and a degree of mystery.
Good art and story-telling.
The First Pentecost (6 pages)
Disclaimer, I am a Christian, but this is not the kind of depiction that I have much time for.
Just as a fan of comic stories;- this art is lifeless. Has no energy and does not bring out or emphasise the text in any way.
Too many times, people tackle Christian themes in story with too much reverence and make it dull.
I generally don't read and therefore usually don't comment on, filler pages or text pieces.
Although the double-page spread on birds is good.
Chuck White and His Friends
A series obviously designed to teach object lessons. Fairly obviously. And what kid enjoys that?
Patsy Manners
Even more obvious and heavy-handed moralizing. I can't see any group of kids I have known actually doing this, and that makes it unrealistic. And therefore ineffective.
I would have picked up an issue to see what it was but then never picked up another issue, unless I had nothing to read.
As I already said, good production values. But probably more responsible for young people turning away from Christianity than in the other direction.
That said, its worth looking at the run of this book posted on CB+, there are some interesting things [and creators]there.         
   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2023, 07:14:40 AM by The Australian Panther »
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The Australian Panther

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Pioneer West Romances 5 [Firehair]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=16185

This series always had good covers.
DC tried a contemporary version in the 70's. Didn't last long.
Romance in the title is clearly used in the older traditional meaning of the world. 
Story #1
Theme of the story - Two different cultures, which is more ethical and moral?
Or perhaps, 'the grass always looks greener, but stay where you are.' 
The Indian culture wins out.
Pretty standard western plot. But I am not convinced that the cat-fight at the beginning is realistic.
They both behave like European girls - think Betty and Veronica - but women probably wouldn't speak up like that in traditional culture and a Father talking to a chief about his daughter would probably out of line or dishonored .
Similarly, in the second story, a woman interfering in a duel between two warriors would not be acceptable.
Third story. Yet again, sympathy is with the Indians and [some of] the whites are the villains.
I read a lot of westerns and these are all generic plots.
I think a teenage girl in the 50's would have enjoyed these, a strong female heroine with a sense of justice, totally independent, speaking back to men, and beating them in physical fights and also not using a gun!
Clearly realistic details were not the point.  Pure fantasy.       

     
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The Australian Panther

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Slave Girl Comics 1
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=17265
Not much on Howard Larson that's easily accessible on the Web.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Larsen
Only two issues.
This is in the vein of Robert E Howard or E.R. Burroughs.
The art is strong enough to create the world and keep you paging through the story.
The writing is as basic as possible. So, I would think that the story is the artists.And they worked together like Lee and Kirby.
Hmm. The villain is named Mordo! Did Lee or Ditko read this comic?
This is a quest story - it would be a while before she reaches her city, because she is only 'Slaved Girl' until then.
Garth is so monotonous and single-minded and humorless, that he is painful. 
Note! Back on page #10, Garth says, 'There is ........ the land of the people you wiil rule.' and Mala replies,
' Perhaps the others but never you. For what you have done, I am forever your slave!'
There were 3 issues. I must track down the last story.
cheers! 
     


 
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Quirky Quokka

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But I am not convinced that the cat-fight at the beginning is realistic.
They both behave like European girls - think Betty and Veronica - but women probably wouldn't speak up like that in traditional culture and a Father talking to a chief about his daughter would probably out of line or dishonored .
Clearly realistic details were not the point.  Pure fantasy.       
     


I don't think even Betty and Veronica would have had a fight like that. I was thinking more like the cat fight between Krystle and Alexis in Dynasty where they ended up in the swimming pool. But they did it better  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndtFru-5SE

Yes, not much attempt to be realistic, but then the target audience probably wasn't looking for that.

Cheers

QQ
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Quirky Quokka

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Treasure Chest v15 01
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=8168

The First Pentecost (6 pages)
Disclaimer, I am a Christian, but this is not the kind of depiction that I have much time for.
Just as a fan of comic stories;- this art is lifeless. Has no energy and does not bring out or emphasise the text in any way.
Too many times, people tackle Christian themes in story with too much relevance and make it dull.

Patsy Manners
Even more obvious and heavy-handed moralizing. I can't see any group of kids I have known actually doing this, and that makes it unrealistic. And therefore ineffective.
I would have picked up an issue to see what it was but then never picked up another issue, unless I had nothing to read.
As I already said, good production values. But probably more responsible for young people turning away from Christianity than in the other direction.
       


Yes, I agree that it's pretty heavy-handed, but may have been more acceptable at the time, especially if the kids went to a Catholic school and agreed with the basic values (but maybe not if their parents had sent them and they didn't want to be there.)

I remember when I was a young teen, The Bible Society in Australia put out a lot of little mini comics that were a bit 'fire and brimstone' (really like little 10 cm x 5 cm stapled booklets). I thought they were interesting, but they scared me a little. They also had a lot of cute little stickers featuring things like love, peace and joy, which didn't really go with the feel of the comics.

There's still some stuff around that's not so great, but also some that's much better, including Christian manga-style graphic novels, and kid's and teen Christian graphic novels with more contemporary illustrations. They would probably attract more interest these days.

Cheers

QQ
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Robb_K

  • VIP




Treasure Chest v15 01
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=8168

The First Pentecost (6 pages)
Disclaimer, I am a Christian, but this is not the kind of depiction that I have much time for.
Just as a fan of comic stories;- this art is lifeless. Has no energy and does not bring out or emphasise the text in any way.
Too many times, people tackle Christian themes in story with too much relevance and make it dull.

Patsy Manners
Even more obvious and heavy-handed moralizing. I can't see any group of kids I have known actually doing this, and that makes it unrealistic. And therefore ineffective.
I would have picked up an issue to see what it was but then never picked up another issue, unless I had nothing to read.
As I already said, good production values. But probably more responsible for young people turning away from Christianity than in the other direction.
       


Yes, I agree that it's pretty heavy-handed, but may have been more acceptable at the time, especially if the kids went to a Catholic school and agreed with the basic values (but maybe not if their parents had sent them and they didn't want to be there.)

I remember when I was a young teen, The Bible Society in Australia put out a lot of little mini comics that were a bit 'fire and brimstone' (really like little 10 cm x 5 cm stapled booklets). I thought they were interesting, but they scared me a little. They also had a lot of cute little stickers featuring things like love, peace and joy, which didn't really go with the feel of the comics.

There's still some stuff around that's not so great, but also some that's much better, including Christian manga-style graphic novels, and kid's and teen Christian graphic novels with more contemporary illustrations. They would probably attract more interest these days.Cheers
QQ   


I agree with all these points.  The art is fine, but there is nothing that would provide entertainment value. It provides some educational value, and some Church propaganda,  but nothing that would make most kids want to read it.

Treasure Chest V15 #1

The Champ's Treasure Hunt
Frank Borth's artwork is good.  The idea of the story is decent, and provides a little anticipation of some child's idea of adventure, and a mystery being solved.  It moves very slowly, and doesn't really provide enough interest related to the number of pages used up.  This is just the first episode of, perhaps 3, or even more.  So, it really isn't paced very efficiently, especially because it doesn't reveal much about any of the characters. I'd have to read the entire story to judge it.  But, it doesn't have any "grabbers" that entice me to go on and read the rest.  That fact, and the fact that it is a religious school publication ensures that, most likely, I won't choose to use up my valuable time in reading the remainder.  It is clear that the story is used to teach young readers that they should wait to get to know people before they make judgements about them, and not solely by their reputations that preceded their meeting, and not by first impressions.  I have no doubt that chubby and slovenly-appearing Frumson will become a hero in this adventure, helping to thwart the villainous thieves, and probably take the lead in their capture.

The First Pentecost
This artwork is adequate but not full of life.  The subject matter is boring - not even attempted to be aimed to appear the slightest bit relevant to the youthful, modern day target audience.

Unique Birds
Excellent artwork, and a good source of information for anyone interested in exotic fauna.

Treasure Chest's Science Lab
Decent source of educative information, with some nice, cartoony artwork to provide it in a light atmosphere.

Chuck White and His Friends
A story about a boy from a tough neighbourhood in an inner city, who has a chip on his shoulder from having to deal with other people with problems who take that out on others.  It looks to me like a story with the moral that it's better not to pre-judge situations and other people's intent, but to go into situations with an open mind and see how things develop, and having a positive attitude leads to better experiences.  So far, it's not as preachy as most of the moral tales in religious education, disguised as "entertainment".  But, I'm guessing that most child readers would have felt it had a dull (and possibly insulting) preachy tone by its second and third episodes.

Talking It Over With Father John
The good father points out to young readers, the moral fortitude of American statesman, Benjamin Franklin, sports hero, boxing champion, Gene Tunney, and the piousness of crime fighter, J. Edgar Hoover.  I think that the editors of this Catholic publication would be sorry to find out about some of the things Hoover did, which were finally made public long after this book was issued.

Patsy Manners
The setup for this story isn't logical, at all.  A girl wishes she could drive a car.  Her teacher tries to console her, by trying to convince her that she plays an important role as a well-mannered passenger, whose behaviour can affect how the driver drives.  And worse yet, the rest of the students decide to create a theatre play about "Pest Passengers".  This is the sheltered parent's idea of how morally upright, and well-brought-up pre-teens and early teenagers would behave.  Or, it's the way the Catholic School administrators want their students' parents to think their children behave after attending their schools, getting the benefits of their education in morals and proper behaviour.  What a preachy, sappy, and sickeningly sweet tone this story has. 

Hannibal Bear

Nice cartoony gag!  Nice artwork. funny gag.  The only "innocent" attempt at entertainment in this book.

« Last Edit: January 24, 2023, 07:16:25 AM by Robb_K »
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Robb_K

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Pioneer West Romances 5 [Firehair]
This has an interesting cover drawing, that makes the reader want to open the book and see who this "White" young woman, dressed in dyed buckskin, holding a longbow, is. And we want two know if she'll be rescued by the "cowboy" behind her, or shot by him, with the pistol he's wielding, or trampled to death by the rampaging North American bison.  The artwork in this book is quite good.  The stories are entertaining enough to hold the readers' interests.  But, to my taste, they suffer the same general problem of being so short, because the editors insisted on squeezing at least 3 or 4 stories (if not 5) into each book, and near the end of the 1940s and throughout the fifties, the comic books were even smaller, not only shrinking from 68, 60, and 52 pages during most of the 1940s, to 36, but also having less of those 36 containing comics, in favour of adding more and more advertising pages as the years crept by.  So, eventually, many of the stories held between only 6, and even as low as 4 pages.  Hardly long enough to develop a decently-paced plot, or even much of a plot, with almost no detail.

Firehair - First Story
So, Firehair was adopted by a Dakotah tribal village as an orphaned infant. She is shown on the first story page as an armed member of a Dakotah war party attacking a "White Man's" settlement (small town or ranch), firing a pistol at the enemy.  Native American tribes didn't have their women fight along with them in raids.  The only time they fought was during extreme emergencies, when their villages were attacked. And, the Plains Tribes didn't dye their buckskin.  It was always natural colours.

This story has a complex plot, with Firehare saving a "White" miner, who is being terrorized by a villainous, greedy, wealthy local rancher.  Not very realistic, that a woman who was raised by Native Americans among a small tribal unit, who likely would have remained in the village, wherever they set up their tents, and not have had any direct contact with "White" people, would be able to speak English, and would act so boldly among their men.  She would have braided her hair, like the other Dakotah women, and not have been allowed to act differently, just because she had been born from foreign, different-looking people.  In real life, it would have been a lot more likely that she would want to be accepted by her adoptive people, and would have gone overboard in the opposite direction, being the most Dakotah of The Dakotahs, in order to not stand out, and so, to be fully accepted.

In this story, she is behaving like she knew Blackie, the saloon owner, well, and knew the townspeople of Plainsville.  That is very unlikely.  The fact that Firehair, after seeing how The "White Man" behaves, decides to stay with her adoptive, Dakotah people, rather than return to "her" natural parents' people, which she had considered early, is a realistic action.  But, it doesn't mesh logically with her behaving as if she had known Blackie and some of the townspeople of Plainville before, or had, at least, heard much about them.

Firehair - Second Story
Firehair observes the strife between 2 Dakotah braves over one's squaw, and sets up a plan to trap him, so The American soldiers can capture him, and release the brave who the villain framed.  It was a bit far-fetched, but certainly good enough to hold the reader's interest.

Firehair - Third Story
In this story, Firehair takes a young boy from her village into Plainsville to see a doctor.  She is maltreated by 2 "White" villains, who are plotting to steal gold from her tribe's territory.  They steal soldiers' uniforms, and Firehair and Chief Tehama are taken as hostages during the fake soldiers' bust up of an intertribal meeting, and massacre of many of its attendees.  Firehair and Chief Tehama escape, and rush to the soldiers' fort, to try to stop the Native Americans' attack, to avoid having many more soldiers come to the area to chase them into the mountains and steal their land, settling it with "White" ranchers, and townspeople.  They succeed in stopping them, and preventing an "Indian War", that would take place some years later, in real history.  The amount of horse-mounted braves shown attacking the fort was awfully small, considering it came from 5 large tribes who covered an area of thousands of square miles. It's mighty impressive that Firehair prevented a major war between The US Government and 5 major indigenous aboriginal tribes. What will she do next???
I guess I'll have to read other issues of "Pioneer West Romances" featuring Firehair to find out.  Were there any others?  By the way.....  what western romances were involved in this book's stories?  I guess the title reflects the old European sense of the English word "romance" (referring to a romantic novel, as opposed to a love affair between a specific man and woman).

There is a logic error when the villains overhear Firehair talking to Tehama, and understand what she is saying.  Surely they were speaking a Dakotah dialect.  So, we have to assume that at least one of the 2 thieves understood enough of their language to know what she was saying.  That would have been possible.  But, not very likely.  Too much of a needed coincidence, and really not needed to make this story work.  We have to assume that the talking balloons of the Native Americans appear in English text "for the convenience of the reader".  I always liked to see an asterisk, and related footnote at the bottom of the page, stating that, upon the first instance of a foreign language being spoken.
The 4 tribes with representatives at the meeting declare war upon "The White Men".  The Pawnees, Sioux, Dakotah, and Arapahoes lived quite a distance apart, and The Crow Nation, even a lot further away.  At least they were all Tribes of The Great Plains, and no southwestern tribes, such as The Apaches, or Navajos were included (which really never happened), like I've seen is completely unresearched stories. Actually, I'm sure there never really was a joint war effort by these, particular, 5 tribes. I'm surprised that the word "ax' is used instead of "tomahawk".  There shouldn't be a place called a "pueblo" anywhere near Dakotah/Lakotah, Crow, Sioux, pawnee, or even Arapahoe country (despite the fact that The Spanish did administer the greater Louisiana Territory, after it was ceded to them by France in 1763, before taken back by Napoleon in 1800).



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Robb_K

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Slave Girl Comics 1

The cover for this book is quite compelling, as well.  I gather that this slave woman lived in Roman times, based on the armour and garb of the characters, and that the story takes place in North Africa or The Levant, or Mesopotamia.  Another "Fiery" redhead!

Malu The Slave Girl - First Story (Back to Tarko)
The Mystery of The Mystic Ring of Zubran, The Signet of The Royal House of Ormuz are 4,000 years old, eh?  That is about 2,000 years BEFORE the times related to the scenery depicted on the book's front cover, and on the opening splash panel of the first story (Roman army garb, and The Colosseum (probably in Rome, or any other Roman outdoor arena).  I wonder if she was a Christian, sentenced to face the lions for not properly worshipping The Emperor? Her protector is named Garth?  Isn't that a relatively modern Germanic name? Page 2 already reveals that The Signet Ring has magic powers of time travel.  "The Mists of Tarko??? I recognize this story from a different book that we reviewed a year or two ago!  I think it may have been in one of the Pirate-themed books I chose for us, myself!!!  But, I remember only the one Malu story in Tarko.  That one story must have been detached from the others and reprinted in a collection of stray stories from various original books. But, I can't remember which one.  I think it was also an Avon publication.


The story artwork is excellent, much better than that of the cover.  The scenes have great staging and a lot of nice action.  The plot is okay, but I'd have preferred it it the author had tied it more to real history, like an historical novel.  It seems to be pointing to North Africa as the setting.  But it's not likely that a woman and man with such light skin would have originated from a land on the other side oa Saharan massif.  So, I think Ormuz is supposed to be located somewhere in The Middle East, like Iraq.  But those lions are clearly African rather than Asian lions.

Malu The Slave Girl - Second Story (Banquet of Thuz)
Malu foments a slave uprising to overthrow the King's regent tyrant usurper, but that villain kidnaps her.  Of course her loyal subject and protector, Garth, kills Thuz, and the newly-crowned young king outfits Garth and Malu for their continued journey to Ormuz.

Malu The Slave Girl - Third Story (Bandits of Mal Azmut)
Pyramids at an oasis in the middle of The Sahara Desert?  And an Ormuzian wearing a Greek helmet from Alexander's time, and Roman-style armour, or up to a few hundred years before 300 BCE.  That is long after 4000 years ago.  Wearing that metal chain mail in the hot desert sun would have been a terrible experience.  A cowlick god - that would have been one of Baal's manifestations in Canaan (or Phoenicia), or, it could be the Egyptian goddess, Hathor (but the statue looked like a male).  Of course, Garth, singlehandedly, defeats all the oasis' bandits, steals a horse, and he rides off with Malu, after rescuing her.

The Slave Market of Manoch
I can guess that Malu will be captured from Garth, and sold again, as a slave.  "Circasian" beauty?  there was NO Circassia in Roman times, and certainly not in 2000 BCE!  The Hurrians occupied that portion of The Caucasus area at that time. They are at LEAST 3000+ years off.  So, Garth gathers up many talents of gold and jewels, and outbids everyone bidding for Malu. He reunites her with her father, The King.  But, She and Jeff return to the present, as the power of the ring wears off, unexpectedly.  That is a clever way to leave enough suspense to force the curious readers to buy the next issue of "Slave Girl".  And, believe it or not, it is enough to get me to read it here on CB+!
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crashryan

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So here we are again. Next up is

Pioneer West Romances #5 featuring Firehair

I don't know what on earth prompted Fiction House to title this comic Pioneer West Romances. It started out as simply Firehair, ran for four issues with the new title, then changed back to Firehair for five more issues. The series went to the happy hunting ground with issue #11. Who can say? Maybe the publisher thought romance comics were the next big thing. At the same time that the title was changed to Pioneer West Romances Fiction House was launching Cowgirl Romances, which really was a romance comic. Did they figure they could pick up a few female readers with a misleading title? There's certainly no romance here and precious few pioneers.

Firehair herself had been running in Rangers since 1945 and was still going strong in 1950 when this comic hit the stands. She started out with excellent art first by Lee Elias then by Bob Lubbers. By 1950 the Iger Shop handled the art chores. Their stuff suffered from a boring, generic look. These stories seem to be new material, not reprints from Rangers.

I notice that about this time Fiction House launched two series, Indians and Long Bow, Indian Boy, as well as publishing the one-shot Apaches. They must have figured that Indians were even more bankable than romances. Being mostly ignorant about Native American history I'm not qualified to critique the accuracy of these stories. I'll leave that to Robb, who actually knows what he's talking about. I can only say that all the stories share an unfocused vibe common to Fiction House stories. Heaven knows there are plenty of worse stories out there, but Fiction House scripts have a tendency to stumble from incident to incident, leaving the impression that the writer wrote one draft and moved on to the next job without bothering to polish the one he just finished.

That's about all I have to say about this one...it didn't do much for me.
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Robb_K

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So here we are again. Next up is

Pioneer West Romances #5 featuring Firehair

I don't know what on earth prompted Fiction House to title this comic Pioneer West Romances. It started out as simply Firehair, ran for four issues with the new title, then changed back to Firehair for five more issues. The series went to the happy hunting ground with issue #11. Who can say? (1) Maybe the publisher thought romance comics were the next big thing. At the same time that the title was changed to Pioneer West Romances Fiction House was launching Cowgirl Romances, which really was a romance comic. Did they figure they could pick up a few female readers with a misleading title? There's certainly no romance here and precious few pioneers.

Firehair herself had been running in Rangers since 1945 and was still going strong in 1950 when this comic hit the stands. She started out with excellent art first by Lee Elias then by Bob Lubbers. By 1950 the Iger Shop handled the art chores. Their stuff suffered from a boring, generic look. These stories seem to be new material, not reprints from Rangers.

I notice that about this time Fiction House launched two series, Indians and Long Bow, Indian Boy, as well as publishing the one-shot Apaches. (2) They must have figured that Indians were even more bankable than romances. Being mostly ignorant about Native American history I'm not qualified to critique the accuracy of these stories. I'll leave that to Robb, who actually knows what he's talking about. I can only say that all the stories share an unfocused vibe common to Fiction House stories. Heaven knows there are plenty of worse stories out there, but (3) Fiction House scripts have a tendency to stumble from incident to incident, leaving the impression that the writer wrote one draft and moved on to the next job without bothering to polish the one he just finished.

That's about all I have to say about this one...it didn't do much for me.


(1) Fiction House was a trend follower (late joiner), rather than a trend-setter, as The Iger-Eisner Studio had been.  The Romance comics boom started heavily in 1949.  So, yes, Iger probably was hoping to get some romance fans added to Firehair's sales.

(2) Westerns were the next trend, after Romance comics.  They started getting popular later in 1949, and really popped up everywhere in 1950.  Iger was desperate to expand his sales, trying to jump on trends as early as possible.

(3) Based on what I've seen of Golden Age historical setting action-based comics (Westerns, Pirates, ancient adventure(Gladiators/Slaves), Kings/Knights, historical warfare/combat, and Sci-Fi, etc.), MOST of the publishers' writers and both packager and publisher editors, failed to make the necessary first, subsequent, and final checks providing post-original submittal error fixing.  Fiction House didn't seem any worse than Fawcett, Quality, Ace, Farrell, Harvey, Novelty, Timely, Prize, Avon, ME, EC, DC.  Fox was probably the worst.  Maybe Charlton was as lousy as Fox?  They seemed to be as cheap.  I haven't read enough of their Golden Age adventure/action comics to form an opinion.  But, what I have seen of their Silver Age comics, is that they were subpar on physical quality, and editing, too.  Timely was cheap, too.  But, unlike Fox, the creators there, and Stan Lee were all dedicated to putting out a good product.  The writers and editors at Fox couldn't go for the best quality, even if they wanted to, because of Victor Fox's insistence on tight and unmovable, deadlines.  He didn't believe in taking in less profit to keep the quality at a decent level.  Unfortunately, he figured that that difference wouldn't matter.  The kids would buy his books, anyway.
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