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Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.  (Read 1779 times)

crashryan

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2023, 05:09:49 AM »

Quote
In a 1942 Superman comic strip, a film producer sees the resemblance between Clark and Superman and Lois says, "Well... I must admit there is a slight resemblance, if you stretch your imagination to it's greatest extent."

Until this discussion came along I'd completely forgotten one of the stranger reasons that nobody recognizes a superhero. Supposedly Jay Garrick--the original Golden Age tin-hat Flash--didn't need to wear a mask because when dressed as The Flash he subconsciously vibrated his facial atoms and no one could see his features clearly.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2023, 06:03:25 AM »

The biggest difficulty in moderating this forum is in well, Moderating it! In the sense of the Macquarie concise dictionary's definition.
"Keep or keeping within due bounds, not extreme, excessive or intense"
"To make less violent, severe, intense or rigorous."
And that includes moderating myself.

We live in a time of strong emotions, and a time when it's too easy to express an opinion and have a disagreement which causes people to ostracize each other.
To that end, a good rule of thumb would be to keep to discussing what is directly relatable to the books being discussed and to be careful about widening the discussion and being dogmatic about opinions which might be likely to be contrary to the opinions or understandings  - honestly held - by others. 
That inevitably leads to an environment where we cannot and will not talk to each other.
That said, I feel forced to make an exception - as in 'the exception proves the rule'.
I find myself on the opposite side of the argument that Kingcat expressed.
And since that opinion was expressed in the open forum,  I intend to express my opinion in the next post.
That said, I have no desire to make an enemy or foe of you, Kingcat, that's not my intention.
I grew up in the fifties, when a common viewpoint, which I still hold to, was,
"I don't agree with a word you say, but I am prepared to fight to the death for your right to say it"
Lastly, can any responses to both our posts be restricted to PMs - private messages, and not posted in the open Forum. 
Thank you!               
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2023, 06:07:47 AM »

Quote
The UK has been learning bad lessons from across the pond, limiting voting by introducing  requirements for photo ID, planning to ship immigrants out to other countries or housing them in giant barges offshore, and trying to pass laws that prevent refugees reaching the UK in small boats from even claiming asylum.

These media-generated wrongs don't stand up under examination.
The best way to manipulate someone is to appeal to their sense of self-righteousness.
[b]limiting voting by introducing  requirements for photo ID,[/b]
The media tells us that's a bad thing. Based on the assumption that nobody would ever want to win an election by cheating. Try, 'attempting to ensure voting is kept honest and sensibly regulated.' And how exactly does that limit honest voting? When every person and his dog has a smart-phone with two cameras? 
And what gives you the idea that that is imported from the US? No Democratic state does this, in fact they give the vote to anybody who applies - without ID required.
'planning to ship immigrants out to other countries' Isn't that exactly what the countries that are sending the immigrants to the 'West' are doing?
Quote
housing them in giant barges offshore,
Maybe because someone [ultimately the tax-payer] has to build and pay for accommodation? Not a new idea tho. That's what the British public service did with their convicts when there was an excess of them before they sent them to Australia. Those were called, 'Hulks.'   
Haven't heard that one before. I have heard tho, that they are housing them in Hotels in places like Edinburgh and New York, to name two.Or sending them out to small villages where their numbers overwhelm the locals.     
Trying to pass laws that prevent refugees reaching the UK in small boats from even claiming asylum.
The government's first duty is to look after your interests, not the interests of non-citizens who aren't tax-payers or residents.
The 'small boats'? the 'Asylum seekers' come through Europe - funneled through France. The boats are supplied when they reach the channel. I've seen photographs of the boats.     
The media and middle-class musicians and actors - who would never take a refugee into their house ever - spend money to propagandize that all migrants are sufferers who need help.
Those TV ads costs money, a lot of it. So who finances them, and what is their motivation?  And why don't they spend all that money directly on 'the asylum-seekers'?   Most asylum seekers do in fact, have money and have used it to leave their own country and arrive here. People-smuggling is a business.   
"asylum seekers' include criminals and terrorists.
One of the regular jobs at the borders is identifying these and sending them back home. It's a big job.   
Also, the bulk of them are not women and children, but men of working age. Although - they deliberately send children unaccompanied - some [more than you imagine] are trafficked, others are claimed later, to enable the adults to claim that they have a family resident in the country.
But most important, do you have any idea just what an economic and financial burden the large numbers - and they are large numbers - of unvetted and uninvited migrants are to the countries that are forced to accept them. 
I believe that your NHS is in dire financial trouble - as is our equivalent - how is the daily adding to the numbers entitled to NHS services help the situation?   
Do I think there should be no migration? No, that would make me a hypocrite, as everybody in Australia is descended from migrants [Including the Aboriginal people as DNA shows their ancestors came from Africa via South India]
I myself am related, by blood and by marriage am related to people from 4 continents. And I hate feeling the need to say that, I would rather shut up about it than blow my own trumpet.
Actually, we live in a time of many huge population movements.
It's understandable that there are currently large numbers of Ukrainians fleeing war and large numbers of  Russians fleeing national service coming into and being accepted by the UK and  Europe. In the US there are movements, not just of populations but of major businesses and corporations to Texas and California. You will have to look hard to find it, but there is a movement of 'People of Colour' out of the Northern States - to escape gun violence and lack of opportunity - back to the Southern States. 
Also, I was forgetting that these avenues into Western Countries are being used to import drugs in massive quantities.
Curiously, I couldn’t access much current information on this.
Apparently the BBC hasn’t posted anything on Fentanyl since 2020
Curiouser and Curiouser.   
Fentanyl deaths on rise in UK, drug report warns
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50989633
US fentanyl-related deaths more than tripled over five years
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-fentanyl-related-deaths-more-than-tripled-over-5-years-2023-05-03/
I have read reliable reports that illegal immigration and the import of fentanyl are related in the US, It’s most likely that it is also the case in the UK and Australia.
Here is the official UK government policy.
Reasonable and neutral.
Risks of illegal migration to the UK
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/risks-of-illegal-migration-to-the-uk
Should have just posted the link below – makes the same points I make.   
Tackling myths factsheet: Illegal Migration Bill
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/illegal-migration-bill-factsheets/tackling-myths-factsheet-illegal-migration-bill
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2023, 02:36:33 PM »

I'm normally not happy when we drift into politics, religion or moral attitudes, but so far in this section we seem to be staying reasonably amicable.  So I will comment.  On the photo id to vote, it's a piece of political vandalism by the present government which is supposed to bring safer elections and stop voter fraud.  Oddly, there is virtually no voter fraud in the UK.  Not everyone has a mobile phone and this act will certainly exclude many people from their right to vote. The poor especially. The UK has high poverty levels, which are increasing.
I believe this act is a disgrace and an attempt to keep the tories in power, using voter fraud as an excuse - a threat that doesn't exist to any measurable extent here.  We do not have the problem of "vote early, vote often"
Back to the comics, please.

I have to admit that as a youngster reading Blackhawk and, later, The Spirit, it never occurred to me that the depiction of Ebony or Chop-Chop was racist.
Our story papers regularly featured stories and strips with orientals, people of colour, Irish, Jews, Germans and Japanese as what I now know to be racist stereotypes. So many disparaging terms for and racial slurs about Scots.
Click for  a front page of Sparky from 1965
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ar4bsCXmHOo/T8MSl0DY4aI/AAAAAAAADRs/zDnoHyFlJqM/s1600/sparkycover.jpg

Spadger's Isle :-
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_saokEWen78c/TCWXu_9z1pI/AAAAAAAACKA/Uf69sPaQNj0/s1600/tara0012.jpg

None of this stops me enjoying The Spirit or Midnight or Plastic Man.
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MarkWarner

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2023, 05:06:15 PM »

I am with Paw ... I prefer we give politics a swerve, I also agree with his other comments. Voter fraud is just not an issue in the slightest.

I would also point out that the NHS is crumbling not due to asylum seekers, which is frankly an absurd notion. It is caused through years of chronic underfunding.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2023, 08:51:11 PM »

Okay, this one is going to take a minute. There is a chance that some of our offshore readers might not have seen Charlie Callas before, and for this to be funny, you'll need to look him up. I've added this after Gordon Lightfoot died here in Canada earlier this week and people my own age had NOT heard of him. So, I'm taking no chances. Once you get a picture in your mind, keep going.
So, the wife and I are sitting around the other nigtht and I read 'Crash's line about 'Tin Hat' Flash moving his face to avoid detection. Makes me break up. I mean plot wise, this is as brave as anything Edgar Rice Burroughs ever came up with.
Wife was watching some vintage variety show on TV that had Charlie Callas on and started to laugh too. She figured the guy would HAVE to look like Callas as a matter of course. Now we're both killing ourselves. You know, Charlie Callas as Tin Hat Flash.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2023, 11:57:38 PM »

Web of Evil #3

The Killer From Saturn
Interesting, although you'd think his first victim would have been his boss.

Vengeance of the Red Ghost
Okay.

Goddess of Murder
Interesting.

House of Horror
Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.

The Beast From Beyond
So how did the men inside the dragon costume avoid being hurt by the guns? The way the dragon left tracks and had bullet proof skin implies some kind of mechanical creation, which would be expensive, more than they would get from finding their boss's money.

Not as good as the previous books. Didn't really notice much of Jack Cole's work in his supposed stories.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2023, 12:32:21 AM »


I am with Paw ... I prefer we give politics a swerve, I also agree with his other comments. Voter fraud is just not an issue in the slightest.

I would also point out that the NHS is crumbling not due to asylum seekers, which is frankly an absurd notion. It is caused through years of chronic underfunding.


Sorry Boss, my bad. Mea Maxima culpa. :(
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2023, 12:59:45 AM »


Web of Evil #3

The Killer From Saturn
Interesting, although you'd think his first victim would have been his boss.

Vengeance of the Red Ghost
Okay.

Goddess of Murder
Interesting.

House of Horror
Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.

The Beast From Beyond
So how did the men inside the dragon costume avoid being hurt by the guns? The way the dragon left tracks and had bullet proof skin implies some kind of mechanical creation, which would be expensive, more than they would get from finding their boss's money.

Not as good as the previous books. Didn't really notice much of Jack Cole's work in his supposed stories.


Hi Scrounge, I'd like to thank you for clinging steadfastly to reviewing the comics and not getting swept away by emotions like I did.  :'(

I must admit the tales in Web Of Evil just scream "Cole" to me, maybe that's a sign of his changing style, but knowing my luck some expert will come forward with irrefutable proof that they're drawn by Andre LeBlanc, Alex Kotzky or John Spranger.

I agree with most of your other assessments, tho on 711 I find the whole premise doubtful. Having got himself a life sentence as a favour to a friend, he digs his way out of prison, but rather than escape he goes back to his cell, knits himself a nifty costume out of who knows what, and goes on to fight evil under the same name as his prison number and no-one except The Runt twigs it.  Seems unlikely to me.

And BTW, the artist/writer who doesn't sign his name to Burp the Twerp is none other than our old pal Jack Cole. How unlikely is that!  :o

Thanks again for your input
All the best
K1ngcat

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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2023, 06:23:53 AM »

Quote

Wow! An actual supernatural story rather than an apparent supernatural threat with a mundane explanation like all the earlier stories.

This struck me odd when I read the stories. The monster story in particular reminded me of DC's early 60s weird mags like Unexpected and House of Secrets. Every monster or alien, however outlandish, turned out to be a hoax with a credulity-straining explanation that was more outlandish than the monster. I always figured this was because DC was afraid that real monsters might offend the Comics Code. Yet the Code had no problems with the monsters over at Atlas/Marvel.

The hoax explanation in the Saturn monster story was a wee bit more acceptable since it fitted the villain's obsession with being big and powerful. It was still hard to believe the guy standing on stilts and using arm extenders would be able to keep his balance while attacking his victims.

One other thing about that story. When I saw the splash page I thought, "That looks like a Kirby Monster splash!" The composition, posing, and character design looked like something The King would have done.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2023, 03:43:07 PM by crashryan »
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MarkWarner

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2023, 08:32:19 AM »



Sorry Boss, my bad. Mea Maxima culpa. :(



As we all are lol
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #36 on: May 08, 2023, 01:29:50 AM »

Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
By the way, all I could think of when I saw the beast in GODDESS OF EVIL was...Venom! A lost cousin? I get what you mean by the Jack Kirby look a like thing. I can almost see Busy Arnold telling Jack Cole to give him something that looked like Kirby's work, but without the headache of trying to make a decent offer to Kirby.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2023, 12:27:42 AM »


Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?
By the way, all I could think of when I saw the beast in GODDESS OF EVIL was...Venom! A lost cousin? I get what you mean by the Jack Kirby look a like thing. I can almost see Busy Arnold telling Jack Cole to give him something that looked like Kirby's work, but without the headache of trying to make a decent offer to Kirby.


Venom? Yeah, I can see the similarity. The plot is okay , the art's cool , but I wonder how much bite those jaws could have had if they were only part of a disguise. Sometimes it's best not to look too hard at the practicalities!

All the best
K1ngcat
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2023, 11:55:46 PM »


Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?



I was helping a young teenage girl with reading and she loves comic books, including Scooby Doo. I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary. LOL I usually settled for the 'Scooby Doo Mysteries', which were a bit more innocuous. She probably would have loved the scary ones  :D

Cheers

QQ
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2023, 12:06:19 AM »

Quote
Hey, ‘Crash, ever get the feeling those early 60’s mags like HOUSE OF MYSTERY/SECRETS set the stage for SCOOBY DOO, WHERE ARE YOU?


I started to write a post about this, and I would have finished it, too, if it wasn't for those blasted kids.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #40 on: May 11, 2023, 07:49:23 AM »


I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary.

You should probably steer clear of DC's Scooby Apocalypse where, for some insane reason, they decided to put the Scooby characters in a post-apocalyptic world.

I suspect either drugs, or sales of the Archie horror books, was the inspiration.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #41 on: May 11, 2023, 07:57:09 AM »



I still found some of the art in the 'Scooby Doo, where are you?' ones scary.

You should probably steer clear of DC's Scooby Apocalypse where, for some insane reason, they decided to put the Scooby characters in a post-apocalyptic world.

I suspect either drugs, or sales of the Archie horror books, was the inspiration.


LOL - Thanks for the heads-up, SuperScrounge. Regular Archie and Scooby Doo Mysteries for me  :D

Cheers

QQ
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2023, 04:03:04 PM »

Hey King, (or anybody else); is there a decently priced collection of Jack Cole’s work for PLAYBOY? I remember being really frustrated by the lack of a decent collection for Kurtzman/Elder’s ANNIE FANNY  until Dark Horse stepped up to the plate.
Yeah, good line, ‘Crash. (Pull of the rubber mask) Those darned kids ruin it every time.
Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here

https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing

When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2023, 04:54:00 PM »

Police Comics # 11 - The Brain of Cyrus Smythe

Dr. Smythe was, apparently, a scientist of the ilk of Dr. Frankenstein, who went where Man shouldn't go, trying to "create" life, and made a large, strong monster of sorts.  But, The Devil, or the automatic punishment for doing evil, got to Smythe, by having him fall, knock over his self-made, flammable chemicals, starting a fire, which burned down his house, consuming all his evil work.  The story hints at taking place around 1642 AD.  Yet, The Narrator states that it occurred during The City of London's "infancy".  Actually, London's infancy took place BEFORE even The Romans set foot on Britain's shores in 44 B.C.E.  It had first  been a Keltic (Brythonic) village, and later, market town.

This story used many narrow panels, a configuration which gave it the desired agitated mood, worthy of a vengeful madman's point of view, and affect on the reader.  And the arbitrary colouring helped add to that mood.  However, both of those tactics hurt my ability to read the story.  It felt VERY cramped at 9 squashed pages, of helter-skelter action.  The first single-splash panel page was appropriate.  But, after that the pages averaged almost exactly 13 panels each.  Nine pages of the standard 3-tier 6-panel format would have resulted in just 54 panels, instead of 117.  A less crammed more open version, would have taken up 19 pages (a pace more to my liking).  Even allowing for some 4-5 pages of crammed agitation approaching the climax, a page count of 15, rather than 9, would have better suited my tastes. 

The story plot, itself, with the soul of the villain waiting for a body to use to wreak vengeance upon all Mankind (misplaced) was an entertaining one, and held my interest.  It seems that the powers which make the "monster's body" grow are unexplained.  I often prefer some attempt at explanation of physically impossible events by use of pseudo-science, even if seemingly ridiculous (and insulting).  But, this was typical of how that was handled during the 1940s.

Smash Comics 72 - Midnight - Angela, The Beautiful Bovine
This slapstick, but clever, comedy story is much more my style, despite being a weak parody of Eisner's "Spirit", as I am mainly a comedy fan.  Of course, the deliberately sorely exaggerated "stereotypes" of Eisner's comic storytelling devices, such as the extreme camera angles, and obvious overlooking of clues by the Inspector, and pet peeves of The Spirit's (Midnight's) sidekick (Gabby), and the Spirit's disguise (tiny mask) being his alter-ego's only way of not being discovered, seen through by no-one, are battered to death in this parody.  But, it is, nevertheless, very entertaining, especially due to the light-hearted comedic style of the artwork, and silliness of the plot.

Web of Evil 3 - The Killer From Saturn
I like that this semi-realistic story is based on a strong plot, about a meek man, dominated and pushed around all his life by others, who vows to wreak his pent-up vengeance upon The unfriendly World, and especially his everyday tormentors, through a seemingly scary and powerful disguise.  Such a plot is logical and satisfying to this reader, as opposed to the normal comic book "space alien monster" story, whose plot generally makes little sense, and whose basis and body of story details usually has little or no relationship at all to Our Universe's laws of physics, chemistry, and biology.  I did have a few problems in believing that a puny, un-athletic, weakling, such as this story's villain, could have had the dexterity while on stilts, to perform such actions so as to wield his sword so swiftly, chase after people on foot, catch them and murder them, and run away from the police.  But, I can live with a few chinks in the armour, to enjoy a well- thought out semi-realistic story, as opposed to completely fantasy-based stories, which make absolutely no sense to me.

Web of Evil 3 - The Goddess of Murder

This story was interesting because most of the way through, the reader thinks that it is a supernatural fantasy story about the vengeance of a disrespected, ignored Goddess.  I like the artwork, but not the haphazard colouring.  The plot is interesting, especially the unexpected, realistic twist that it was NOT the vengeance of a supernatural goddess, but rather, the loyal Human followers(worshipers) of the disrespected goddess, which manifests itself in destroying her violators.

« Last Edit: May 13, 2023, 07:54:50 AM by Robb_K »
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #44 on: May 13, 2023, 01:17:56 AM »


Police Comics # 11 - The Brain of Cyrus Smythe

Dr. Smythe was, apparently, a scientist of the ilk of Dr. Frankenstein, who went where Man shouldn't go, trying to "create" life, and made a large, strong monster of sorts.  But, The Devil, or the automatic punishment for doing evil, got to Smythe, by having him fall, knock over his self-made, flammable chemicals, stating a fire, which burned down his house, consuming all his evil work.  The story hints at taking place around 1642 AD.  Yet, The Narrator states that it occurred during The City of London's "infancy".  Actually, London's infancy took place BEFORE even The Romans set foot on Britain's shores in 44 B.C.E.  It had first  been a Keltic (Brythonic) village, and later, market town.

This story used many narrow panels, a configuration which gave it the desired agitated mood, worthy of a vengeful madman's point of view, and affect on the reader.  And the arbitrary colouring helped add to that mood.  However, both of those tactics hurt my ability to read the story.  It felt VERY cramped at 9 squashed pages, of helter-skelter action.  The first single-splash panel page was appropriate.  But, after that the pages averaged almost exactly 13 panels each.  Nine pages of the standard 3-tier 6-panel format would have resulted in just 54 panels, instead of 117.  A less crammed more open version, would have taken up 19 pages (a pace more to my liking).  Even allowing for some 4-5 pages of crammed agitation approaching the climax, a page count of 15, rather than 9, would have better suited my tastes. 

The story plot, itself, with the soul of the villain waiting for a body to use to wreak vengeance upon all Mankind (misplaced) was an entertaining one, and held my interest.  It seems that the powers which make the "monster's body" grow are unexplained.  I often prefer some attempt at explanation of physically impossible events by use of pseudo-science, even if seemingly ridiculous (and insulting).  But, this was typical of how that was handled during the 1940s.

Smash Comics 72 - Midnight - Angela, The Beautiful Bovine
This slapstick, but clever, comedy story is much more my style, despite being a weak parody of Eisner's "Spirit", as I am mainly a comedy fan.  Of course, the deliberately sorely exaggerated "stereotypes" of Eisner's comic storytelling devices, such as the extreme camera angles, and obvious overlooking of clues by the Inspector, and pet peeves of The Spirit's (Midnight's) sidekick (Gabby), and the Spirit's disguise (tiny mask) being his alter-ego's only way of not being discovered, seen through by no-one, are battered to death in this parody.  But, it is, nevertheless, very entertaining, especially due to the light-hearted comedic style of the artwork, and silliness of the plot.

Web of Evil 3 - The Killer From Saturn
I like that this semi-realistic story is based on a strong plot, about a meek man, dominated and pushed around all his life by others, who vows to wreak his pent-up vengeance upon The unfriendly World, and especially his everyday tormentors, through a seemingly scary and powerful disguise.  Such a plot is logical and satisfying to this reader, as opposed to the normal comic book "space alien monster" story, whose plot generally makes little sense, and whose basis and body of story details usually has little or no relationship at all to Our Universe's laws of physics, chemistry, and biology.  I did have a few problems in believing that a puny, un-athletic, weakling, such as this story's villain, could have had the dexterity while on stilts, to perform such actions so as to wield his sword so swiftly, chase after people on foot, catch them and murder them, and run away from the police.  But, I can live with a few chinks in the armour, to enjoy a well- thought out semi-realistic story, as opposed to completely fantasy-based stories, which make absolutely no sense to me.

Web of Evil 3 - The Goddess of Murder

This story was interesting because most of the way through, the reader thinks that it is a supernatural fantasy story about the vengeance of a disrespected, ignored Goddess.  I like the artwork, but not the haphazard colouring.  The plot is interesting, especially the unexpected, realistic twist that it was NOT the vengeance of a supernatural goddess, but rather, the loyal Human followers(worshipers) of the disrespected goddess, which manifests itself in destroying her violators.


Hi Robb, glad you found some of the choices interesting, I enjoyed your comments. I chose the Plastic Man story because Cole's art was on a cusp between being quite rough and untutored (as in The Claw and his early episodes of The Comet, Plastic Man and Midnight) and developing a semi-realistic style, while still retaining the frantic and highly imaginative elements which characterized his work.

He shows the ability to display a powerful and detailed splash page and to weave a gripping storyline,  however improbable. I doubt his young readers cared too much for practicalities! Plas was an unusual creation as he eventually discarded his "secret  identity" and lived full time as a costumed  hero. I don't think we see much of Eel O'Brian after this story.

I rather fancy Cole would have preferred 15 pages to the 9  that he had to tell his tale in, hence the small panels, but he'd already received an "upgrade" from 6 pages due to the popularity of the character, and over time he learned to let his art and story develop in pace with one another.

The result was more like the Midnight tale in Smash Comics. I'm not sure to what extent Midnight was intended to be a parody of The Spirit as just a fairly direct swipe so Busy Arnold had a Spirit style character in hand for when Eisner "went solo." So I'm not entirely sure whether Gabby was a parody of Eisner's stereotype Ebony or just a talking monkey. But I'm glad you enjoyed the light-hearted comedy of the story.

You're right about the realities of a puny man managing to murder his victims while wearing stilts, and there are several panels where The Killer from Saturn achieves poses which would be impossible to a stilt-walker, but I think they're necessary to increase the drama and suspense. And I agree that the colouring in Web Of Evil is a little heavy handed and distracts from the flow of the artwork but I feel the stories still hold up for themselves.

Overall I'm pleased you found so much to enjoy and thanks for taking the time to comment.
All the best
K1ngcat
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #45 on: May 13, 2023, 07:53:12 AM »



Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here

https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing

When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.


Hey Morgus - Thanks for that. I loved the Flintstones and the Jetsons as a kid, and the animation seemed fine to me then. I didn't know they had those tricks (like the neckties and necklaces) so they could use cheap animation techniques. I guess that's the only way they could get the episodes out quickly. Now I've read that, I can recall backgrounds in those HB cartoons where they did seem to keep walking past the same thing  :D

And yes, those are great Scooby backgrounds. Though they could have done more with the fashions. I've bought some new Scooby Doo mysteries in the last year for that girl I work with, and the characters are still wearing the same clothes  :D

Cheers

QQ
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #46 on: May 13, 2023, 05:01:10 PM »




Hey, Q.Q.: there is a thriving art market for those backgrounds from the original show. Word I heard is that Casey Kasem (the original voice of Shaggy) had a couple framed at his place. You can see some nice samples here

https://dangerousminds.net/comments/these_old_scooby_doo_background_paintings_are_pretty_amazing

When he was still alive, Casey would come to your high school or college and do the commencement speech if you liked. His theme was to always do your best because you never know what you’ll be remembered for. When he did SCOOBY DO he was convinced it would just be a one season thing. It became a hit and when H-B went back to get him they were sweating buckets because they thought he would ask for the farm.
He asked for SOME but his big demands were to make Shaggy a vegetarian, just like he was. He also didn’t want them cheaping out on those backgrounds. I like that.


Hey Morgus - Thanks for that. I loved the Flintstones and the Jetsons as a kid, and the animation seemed fine to me then. I didn't know they had those tricks (like the neckties and necklaces) so they could use cheap animation techniques. I guess that's the only way they could get the episodes out quickly. Now I've read that, I can recall backgrounds in those HB cartoons where they did seem to keep walking past the same thing  :D

And yes, those are great Scooby backgrounds. Though they could have done more with the fashions. I've bought some new Scooby Doo mysteries in the last year for that girl I work with, and the characters are still wearing the same clothes  :D

Cheers

QQ


After growing up with 1940s Disney Animation ("The Simulation? of Life"), animated on twos and ones, I couldn't bare to watch the squarish, angular, almost completely motionless figures, standing in front of a sliding background.  H-B 1950s and 1960s TV animation was torture, and, to me, the stories and attempts at humour, were inane.  Jay Ward's and Bill Scott's Rocky & Bullwinkle, Mr. Peabody, Fractured Fairy Tales, Dudley Do-Right of The Mounties, etc. also used extremely limited animation; but, at least their scripts humour and cleverness made them not only worth watching, but cult favourites.  The H_B TV children's programming was absolute garbage to my taste.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2023, 12:37:21 AM »

Was it Stan Freberg who called them radio with pictures?
Except with my kids in the car on long trips, I’d play Jack Benny or SUSPENSE...

Robb K: you KNOW their writing was dead on arrival when the Charlton comics came off as better.

Hey, Q.Q.: I’ll bet a burrito the others have seen THE FLINTSTONES commercials for Winston cigarettes. Have you? They’re on youtube. Used to run during the show. Black and white. Used to GET to me. They show Wilma lighting up at the end. I always thought she was smarter.

Winston sponsored the show when it started (that’s why they’re in black and white). They got around the rule about not advertising to kids by saying it was an ‘ADULT’ show. Hardy har har.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #48 on: May 14, 2023, 02:20:03 AM »

I've been absent from here for the last week, some of the reasons were to do with things going on with my own life but also I've not been happy about my own actions. And considering where do I go from here.
Kingcat was quite upset - to state it mildly - and I was myself considering offering Mark my resignation from the reading group.
I take the liberty of quoting the gist of the last PM Kingcat sent me, as I concur and agree absolutely.
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for now I'll stick with the group and see how things work out.

Now I have no intention of dissing your political viewpoint, but I was disappointed that you'd called me out specifically when crash was the first to display liberal tendencies and I was just agreeing with him.  If you're going to act as Moderator for the Reading Group then you only needed to ask us both to refrain from political discussion as we were going off topic. But then perhaps your reaction was no less emotional than mine?

I honestly don't enjoy this kind of conflict and I will do my best to moderate myself in future, so let's try to bury the hatchet and see if we can continue to work together without friction.
 
I think he nailed it there. And I make the same commitment. And offer my apology .
I repeat Kingcat's words and state it as a principle we should adhere to in our [sometimes wonderfully wide-ranging] discussions.
Let's
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endeavor to refrain from political discussions and going off topic.

That is at least in the open forum. I don't believe in censorship and don't want to restrict speech entirely, so I think I'm on safe ground if I say, that if we feel the need we can use PM's, and even there, lets respect each others viewpoints.   

 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2023, 02:28:21 AM by The Australian Panther »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group # 296, Jack Cole.
« Reply #49 on: May 14, 2023, 02:56:05 AM »

Speaking of
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sometimes wonderfully wide-ranging 

I see the discussion has got on to the subject of Animation.
I picked up from my Library a book,
'The Gibliothetque Movie Guide' - More on that in a minute -
That alerted me to the existence of
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Ghibliotheque - A Podcast About Studio Ghibli
A podcast that leafs through libraries of the world's greatest animation studios 

https://shows.acast.com/ghibliotheque
From this poscast they have produced two books.
1/ Ghibliotheque By Michael Leader, Jake Cunningham.
Based on the Ghibliotheque podcast, which leafs through the library of films 'from the world's greatest animation studio,' this is a fully illustrated book that reviews each Studio Ghibli movie in turn.
2/  The Gibliothetque Movie Guide - The one I currently hold in my hand.
Quote, 'What we have compiled is a broad selection that highlights many of the genres, filmmakers, friends and themes that you can find when dipping your hand into Japanese Animation' They concentrate on Films and there are There are 30 films covered here, dating back to pre-war, so you get something of a history of Japanese Animation.
Some are known to most of us,often by Western adaptions [Akira, NinJa Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion,]  but most of them are not.
They have yet to get to Television series.
   


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