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[EHowie60]

(4) Okayish???  I'd rate this as abominable.  The artwork is terribly crude.  It looks like a 4-yearold drew it!  The gag is non-existent!  Not only not funny in the slightest, but it has no point, at all.  A waste of paper.

Yeah that was a bad page for sure. Funny animal backup stories can be pretty bad but this is about the worst I've seen. A boomerang comes back! End of joke.

[crashryan]

Catholic Comics #10

As Robb suggests, this comic has the feel of a quick-buck operation. Someone at Charlton thought, "We can make some dough off the religious market!" and they patched together Catholic Comics. In that scenario the disparate elements make sense:  the Koroseal ad, the third-grader cartoons, the irrelevant "secular" funny animal story, and the aged reprint image on the back cover. I wouldn't be surprised if Santangelo (if he were indeed the comic's Creator), inspired by the success of Treasure Chest, figured he could squeeze out a few bucks with a clone. I also speculate that the title Catholic Comics and the company name Catholic Publications were chosen in part to imply an official connection to the Church.

Bill Brown's Ace in the Hole has a definite Treasure Chest vibe both in both art and story theme. Tex Blaisdell does a respectable job. I like the Eisneresque fence logo. He also makes good use of Craftint to portray photographs. The script is choppy and the opening flashback confuses the story. I'm also confused by the opening caption's claim of "authentic sources furnished by Notre Dame University." What part of the story are we to believe is true? That their basketball champ was also a Rose Bowl champ?

Pudgy Pig is People's Exhibit #1 for my worldly-motive case. Not only is the character imported from a non-religious Charlton comic. The entire story is about Pudgy inflicting violence upon the wolf. Not an especially noble performance. The wolf falling on his knees and begging is almost sacrilege, a parody of the authentic praying done by everyone else in the comic.

In Father O'Malley absolutely nothing happens. The kids put on a performance. Period. Tom Walsh's dance routine on our page 18 passeth beyond all understanding. The art is okay though everyone's face is squashed in when seen in profile. It's curious that when taking their oath on page 19 the kids only say, "I solemnly..." Was the editor afraid the word "swear" would offend readers?

Aesop's Fables is amazingly awful.

I wonder if art submissions addressed simply to "Catholic Comics, Derby, Connecticut" would have reached their destination.

The Story of Pius XII is nicely drawn. The script is just a string of incidents and sound bites, which is typical of comic book biographies. The waters are clouded by the text misnaming Pius XII's predecessor as Pius XII instead of XI. Can't keep your popes straight without a program.

Ah, Koroseal! Solution to all man's problems! Koroseal is in fact polyvinyl chloride, PVC, that staple of modern life. Waldo Semon didn't invent the stuff--German and Russian scientists had been fiddling with it since the 1870s--but he developed a plasticizing process that made PVC useful in real world products. Waldo even has his own Wikipedia page. As for the comic story, who's willing to bet that this was leftover inventory from a sponsored comic project? By the way, I found no indication that Semon had any special connection to Catholicism or to the Catholic Church.

May the Lord bless and keep us from Droopy.

The Musk Ox Men describes a Canadian expedition which had concluded the preceding year. If you search for "Operation Musk Ox" on YouTube you'll find newsreel footage of the project. The weird faces in the comic story are the artist's attempt to draw the "chamois masks" which I presume were intended to protect the men's faces from the elements. In one newsreel we see a quick shot of an explorer wearing this mask. He looks a lot like the guys in the comic. However it appears that most of the men ditched the masks and went barefaced.

The art isn't bad. The script makes more sense if you think of the dialogue as extensions of the captions. Specifically, on page 43 the caption describes twin-engined C-47s. The balloon goes on to say that in emergencies smaller planes were used. That's why there's a picture of a single-engined light plane. It's a trick to cram two panels' worth of exposition into one panel.

I'm not familiar with the legends of Sir Galahad so some points baffle me. Apparently they haven't got the Grail but Galahad believes it somehow protects them. I thought God was supposed to do the protecting. Page 45, panel 4, looks like a scene from a Disney feature. I expected the animals to burst into song.

William Allison's artwork is very good. The story reads like a chapter of a serial. It assumes we already know what "the quest of the Grail" is and why Merlin is out to stop Galahad. We could have used a first-panel recap. The scene in which Galahad rescues the slave boy is confusing thanks to poor writing. When Perceval calls the lad "this Saffa" in page 48, panel 5, he seems to be referring to the boy's ethnicity. In panel 2 of the next page Galahad offers a bag to the boy saying, "Take this saffa for the poor wretch." Here it sounds like saffa is some sort of money. It finally got through my thick head that Saffa is the boy's name. Galahad's dialogue should have read, "Take this, Saffa, for the poor wretch." I'd also like to know who the glowing woman is supposed to be. I presume she's an angel of some sort, but she "loses herself in the crowd" as if she were flesh and blood.

The last Odd Invention is a doozy. A grater/slicer combined with a mousetrap/flytrap? No health risks there.

Final judgement: Enough odd stuff to pique my curiosity but as a reader I felt I was being sold secondhand goods.

[Morgus]

Welcome to the group, Ehowie. You can almost make a drinking game out of guessing if a certain comic book was made by Charlton. If the cover would make Salvador Dail shake his head and say; “No, wait a minute.”, Check out where it’s published in the fine print section. If it says Derby Connecticut, you just won yourself a drink. “Hic.”

Crash, I love that line about not being able to tell one pope from another without a program. ‘King I was going to say it was the Munsters house, or The Bates Motel, but the Addams family works too.

May the lord bless and keep us from Droopy.

[Robb_K]

Catholic Comics #10

As Robb suggests, this comic has the feel of a quick-buck operation. Someone at Charlton thought, "We can make some dough off the religious market!" and they patched together Catholic Comics. In that scenario the disparate elements make sense:  the Koroseal ad, the third-grader cartoons, the irrelevant "secular" funny animal story, and the aged reprint image on the back cover. I wouldn't be surprised if Santangelo (if he were indeed the comic's Creator), inspired by the success of Treasure Chest, figured he could squeeze out a few bucks with a clone. I also speculate that the title Catholic Comics and the company name Catholic Publications were chosen in part to imply an official connection to the Church.

Bill Brown's Ace in the Hole has a definite Treasure Chest vibe both in both art and story theme. Tex Blaisdell does a respectable job. I like the Eisneresque fence logo. He also makes good use of Craftint to portray photographs. The script is choppy and the opening flashback confuses the story. I'm also confused by the opening caption's claim of "authentic sources furnished by Notre Dame University." What part of the story are we to believe is true? That their basketball champ was also a Rose Bowl champ?

Pudgy Pig is People's Exhibit #1 for my worldly-motive case. Not only is the character imported from a non-religious Charlton comic. The entire story is about Pudgy inflicting violence upon the wolf. Not an especially noble performance. The wolf falling on his knees and begging is almost sacrilege, a parody of the authentic praying done by everyone else in the comic.

In Father O'Malley absolutely nothing happens. The kids put on a performance. Period. Tom Walsh's dance routine on our page 18 passeth beyond all understanding. The art is okay though everyone's face is squashed in when seen in profile. It's curious that when taking their oath on page 19 the kids only say, "I solemnly..." Was the editor afraid the word "swear" would offend readers?

Aesop's Fables is amazingly awful.

I wonder if art submissions addressed simply to "Catholic Comics, Derby, Connecticut" would have reached their destination.

The Story of Pius XII is nicely drawn. The script is just a string of incidents and sound bites, which is typical of comic book biographies. The waters are clouded by the text misnaming Pius XII's predecessor as Pius XII instead of XI. Can't keep your popes straight without a program.

Ah, Koroseal! Solution to all man's problems! Koroseal is in fact polyvinyl chloride, PVC, that staple of modern life. Waldo Semon didn't invent the stuff--German and Russian scientists had been fiddling with it since the 1870s--but he developed a plasticizing process that made PVC useful in real world products. Waldo even has his own Wikipedia page. As for the comic story, who's willing to bet that this was leftover inventory from a sponsored comic project? By the way, I found no indication that Semon had any special connection to Catholicism or to the Catholic Church.

May the Lord bless and keep us from Droopy.

The Musk Ox Men describes a Canadian expedition which had concluded the preceding year. If you search for "Operation Musk Ox" on YouTube you'll find newsreel footage of the project. The weird faces in the comic story are the artist's attempt to draw the "chamois masks" which I presume were intended to protect the men's faces from the elements. In one newsreel we see a quick shot of an explorer wearing this mask. He looks a lot like the guys in the comic. However it appears that most of the men ditched the masks and went barefaced.

The art isn't bad. The script makes more sense if you think of the dialogue as extensions of the captions. Specifically, on page 43 the caption describes twin-engined C-47s. The balloon goes on to say that in emergencies smaller planes were used. That's why there's a picture of a single-engined light plane. It's a trick to cram two panels' worth of exposition into one panel.

I'm not familiar with the legends of Sir Galahad so some points baffle me. Apparently they haven't got the Grail but Galahad believes it somehow protects them. I thought God was supposed to do the protecting. Page 45, panel 4, looks like a scene from a Disney feature. I expected the animals to burst into song.

William Allison's artwork is very good. The story reads like a chapter of a serial. It assumes we already know what "the quest of the Grail" is and why Merlin is out to stop Galahad. We could have used a first-panel recap. The scene in which Galahad rescues the slave boy is confusing thanks to poor writing. When Perceval calls the lad "this Saffa" in page 48, panel 5, he seems to be referring to the boy's ethnicity. In panel 2 of the next page Galahad offers a bag to the boy saying, "Take this saffa for the poor wretch." Here it sounds like saffa is some sort of money. It finally got through my thick head that Saffa is the boy's name. Galahad's dialogue should have read, "Take this, Saffa, for the poor wretch." I'd also like to know who the glowing woman is supposed to be. I presume she's an angel of some sort, but she "loses herself in the crowd" as if she were flesh and blood.

The last Odd Invention is a doozy. A grater/slicer combined with a mousetrap/flytrap? No health risks there.

Final judgement: Enough odd stuff to pique my curiosity but as a reader I felt I was being sold secondhand goods.

Thanks Crash, for doing the research on BF Goodrich, Semon, and Koroseal, and also Operation Musk Ox.

As to Santangelo observing Treasure Chest's success, Catholic Comics only existed about 6 months before Catholic Comics started up.  But, if The Catechetical Guild had gotten a LOT of large Catholic School systems signing long subscription contracts for their books (perhaps for their "Topix Comics", as well, maybe that was enough to give Santangelo and Levy the idea that maybe Charlton could also make some money in that market. I would guess that The The Catechetical Guild was a Catholic Education board and non-profit corporation.  So, they would have had to just break even to perform their function of providing an entertaining, fun way to help Catholic children learn more.  Charlton was a for-profit entity, which had a very narrow profit margin, and so, needed to sell a lot more books to make publishing that particular series worthwhile.  The lasting power of the two series showed that, dramatically.  Catholic Comics lasted only 29 issues, from Fall, 1946, through mid 1949 (less than 3 years), while "Treasure Chest" lasted 496 issues, from early 1946 through to mid 1972. I find it interesting that The Guild's "Treasure Chest" started with its true first number (Volume1 No. 1), while Charlton's  for profit religious/educational comic book started with the industry "trick" of skipping the first several issue numbers, using #5, to ensure that they were taken seriously by distributors.  Perhaps the Catholic Church-sanction Education Guild gathered several large parochial school systems' contracts together before approaching a comic book distributor, and so they didn't have to worry about being taken on.  While Charlton, on the other hand, didn't have a track record in the religious education market, nor sanction from The Catholic Church, nor even well-known highly respected religious education dignitaries on their advisory board, so, they had to market their religious line to Catholic school systems, themselves, which put them at an extreme disadvantage. 

[Quirky Quokka]

Catholic Comics #10

Ah, Koroseal! Solution to all man's problems! Koroseal is in fact polyvinyl chloride, PVC, that staple of modern life. Waldo Semon didn't invent the stuff--German and Russian scientists had been fiddling with it since the 1870s--but he developed a plasticizing process that made PVC useful in real world products. Waldo even has his own Wikipedia page. As for the comic story, who's willing to bet that this was leftover inventory from a sponsored comic project? By the way, I found no indication that Semon had any special connection to Catholicism or to the Catholic Church.

Thanks for that clarification about PVC, Crash. I wondered why I'd never heard of Koroseal when it was the solution to all of our problems. At least I've heard of PVC. I did a quick search for Koroseal, but mainly came up with interior decorating sites that do wall coverings. I guess the blatant advertising could have been used in a science class to talk about this new wonder material.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

(4) Okayish???  I'd rate this as abominable.  The artwork is terribly crude.  It looks like a 4-yearold drew it!  The gag is non-existent!  Not only not funny in the slightest, but it has no point, at all.  A waste of paper.

Yeah that was a bad page for sure. Funny animal backup stories can be pretty bad but this is about the worst I've seen. A boomerang comes back! End of joke.

Hi EHowie60 - It looks like you've been on the site for a while, but it's great to welcome you to the forum. You've obviously got a lot of knowledge about comic books to share.

The boomerang coming back wasn't a big surprise, but as an Australian, I'm more concerned that he appears to have made it with a saw. Not sure that would have been the tool of choice for our traditional indigenous boomerangs, though I see there are some YouTube clips that do just that 

Cheers

QQ

[SuperScrounge]

Treasure Chest v17 #2

This Godless Communism
I realize that what if type stories sometimes have to do a hop-skip-&-a-jump over various issues, but sometimes those things should have an effect. Mention is made of completing the occupation of the US, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a war which you might expect preceding such an occupation.

Chuck White
A caravan of vehicles headed for Canada & I wondered, "Are they fleeing the communist takeover of the US in the previous story?" 

Sports Heroes
Interesting.

The Champ and the Pirates
Are there Eskimos in the upper Atlantic regions? I usually think of them being on the Pacific side of North America. Frumson understands navigation in foggy weather, but can't understand that metal tools will affect the compass? The character has gone from believably stupid to Jerry Lewis levels of stupidity. At least the art is nice to look at.

Father John
Was that 'eight miles high' comment a reference to the song? Was the father trying to sound hip?

The Wonder-Worker
Interesting, especially the parts about the animals. Although I was thinking of non-miraculous ways to pull those situations off which defeats the story/religious reasons for bringing them up. *shrug*

Not as good as the previous issue of Treasure Chest we read, and probably the weakest of the three issues we read this time with Faust being the strongest.

[Robb_K]

Treasure Chest v17 #2

This Godless Communism
I realize that what if type stories sometimes have to do a hop-skip-&-a-jump over various issues, but sometimes those things should have an effect. (1) Mention is made of completing the occupation of the US, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a war which you might expect preceding such an occupation.

Chuck White
(2) A caravan of vehicles headed for Canada & I wondered, "Are they fleeing the communist takeover of the US in the previous story?" 

Sports Heroes
Interesting.

The Champ and the Pirates
(3) Are there Eskimos in the upper Atlantic regions? I usually think of them being on the Pacific side of North America. Frumson understands navigation in foggy weather, but can't understand that metal tools will affect the compass? The character has gone from believably stupid to Jerry Lewis levels of stupidity. At least the art is nice to look at.

Father John
Was that 'eight miles high' comment a reference to the song? Was the father trying to sound hip?

The Wonder-Worker
Interesting, especially the parts about the animals. Although I was thinking of non-miraculous ways to pull those situations off which defeats the story/religious reasons for bringing them up. *shrug*

Not as good as the previous issue of Treasure Chest we read, and probably the weakest of the three issues we read this time with Faust being the strongest.

(1) It seems to me that this story was included to teach good Catholic children to beware of Communist infiltrators (foreign OR American), who will try to convert not-so-patriotic, AND also patriotic Americans to The Communist doctrine, so that, they (Communists) can continue growing stronger in USA, until they finally will be able to take it over peaceably, with almost everyone thinking that things will be better for them under their new Communist regime.  And, soon after they take over the positions of power, they will start with their repressive measures.

(2) Killing 2 birds with one stone, - getting away from the infernal Communist infiltration, and, at the same time, find what will become the best farmland because of Global Warming, with The US midwest drying out, and turning to steppeland and desert, and the 'grain belt moving far north to where The Taiga (coniferous forest belt) is currently. 

(3)
"Eskimos" is a non-politically correct, and meaningless term, which was always inaccurate and misleading (something like calling most of the remaining aborigines of The Americas, "Indians".  A better term would be Inuits, which describes all the most recent aboriginal immigrants to "the New World" related to The Inuktitut people (Yuit in Western Alaska, Inupiat in northern Alaska, and Katladlit in northeastern Nunavut (northeast Canada, and Baffin and Elsmere Islands, and Greenland.  They started arriving from northeastern Siberia about 3,000 years ago, and continued eastward across Canada and finally reached northern and northwestern Greenland about 1,000 years ago.  I'm not sure what you meant by "Upper Atlantic regions.  But, I think I've answered your question.  It was only about 600-700 years ago that The Yuits replaced The Norse Vikings in west-central western Greenland.  And now, they cover all the inhabited places in that country.  Those peoples' treatment is important to me being a Canadian and part-time Danish resident (and having known some Greenlanders in Kopenhagen).

[SuperScrounge]

I'm not sure what you meant by "Upper Atlantic regions.

The land around the northern part of the Atlantic ocean. While the ship's starting point wasn't specified, they clearly started somewhere north of Florida and were on the Atlantic side of North America, so unless we were supposed to believe they had sailed all the way around South America, they had to be in the upper Atlantic.

Since I had only heard the eskimo term used for the people in the Alaska/British Columbia regions I was confused.

[K1ngcat]

Treasure Chest

I could swear we had another issue of this lovely comic earlier in the Reading Group but I can't for the life of me work out when or where. Anyhow, let's go boldly on...

Things kick off with a good old-fashioned dose of reds-under-the-bed scare mongering thanks to J Edgar Hoover, who also writes the foreword.  In other times I would have laughed at this, but given the shit-storm Mr Putin has released on our previously peaceful world, maybe there's a grain of truth in it after all. Anyhow, perestroika is well and truly over, I'm gonna go check under the bed again tonight. Lovely art by Reed Crandall.

Chuck White is heading for Canada, I can only say, "Mercy, saints alive boys, looks like we got us a convoy!" I guess CB radio was topical at the time. Why they're going I just can't say, my my, is it Armageddon already?    Saved only by the artwork of Fran Matera, of whom more here: https://www.lambiek.net/artists/m/matera_fran.htm

Rafer Johnson was obviously a great sportsman of his day, and he did it all with God's help. A lot of great sportsmen and women seem to attribute their successes to God, so maybe I missed out on something there. I was always crap at sports, but it never occurred to me to ask for help. 

Two more pages from Fran Matera on the Statue of Liberty. I prefer Lou Reed's version:
"Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor, I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with, and just dump 'em on the boulevard."
Lyrics from "Dirty Boulevard" on the 1989 "New York" album.
I've always had a dark sense of humour. 

What does your city's name mean?
Well, three out of five say "We stole this place from the Indians."
See what I mean?

The Champ & The Pirates is a little hard to understand shorn of previous issues, but the art of Frank Borth https://www.lambiek.net/artists/b/borth_frank.htm does a lot to make it worth a read. The basic background suggests that The Champ is a fat kid who sometimes makes good, though he doesn't seem to manage in this episode. And surely they're not really pirates?

Father John goes to Paris. Some guys have all the luck.

Lloyd Ostendorf, noted artist with an Abe Lincoln fixation, graces the pages of this story of St Anthony of Padua. He gives up a life of luxury to become a follower of St Francis of Assisi. When the people won't listen to his gospels he talks to the animals, or in this case fishes and a mule. What a guy!  Again the quality of the artwork does a lot to make this worth seeing.

Artistically pretty good, but after years of playing the Devil's music, I'm not sure I'm the right man to get the message here.    Lovely choice though, Robb, appreciated.

All the best
K1ngcat

[Quirky Quokka]

CATHOLIC COMICS #10

St Teresa

I didn’t know anything about her. Probably fits in with some of the things Catholic students would be learning about in school.

Bill Brown

It says it’s based on authentic sources, but not clear which parts. I did a quick google search and think I found him, though it’s a very common name. I guess children might have been inspired to find a sports star who shared their faith.

Pudgy Pig

The moral of the story is that you shouldn’t take revenge, but the humour didn’t work for me.

Father O’Malley and the Living Rosary

Well, what a swell bunch of teens. I didn’t understand a couple of the words. Apparently a ‘shillelagh’ is a walking stick with club or cudgel that was used as a gentleman’s weapon. After looking that up, I’m no clearer as to why the teen was going to bring along his grandfather’s shillelagh. Is it used ceremonially? I also discovered that a cruller is a deep-fried pastry. Now I know.

I guess the point of the story is to explain the living rosary procession, though the storytelling could have been better. Also, someone remarked as they were leaving the church that there was a ‘really religious spirit’. It seems to be used in a favourable way here, though I’ve also heard it used more recently in unfavourable ways (e.g., someone who holds to a legalistic ‘religious’ spirit rather than being spiritual). Interesting how phrases can change in meaning.

Aesop’s Fables

Aesop had some good ones, though this story is heavy-handed, with poor storytelling and poor art.

Crossword – Believe it or not, I actually printed off the crossword and tried it out. I clearly have too much time on my hands. Very confusing having the ‘down’ clues on the left instead of the usual right. Even with Dr Google, there were still a couple I couldn’t get. Well done to those who won a prize. As an editor, I also couldn’t help noticing the typo in the explanation of prizes. The lucky kids who place between 6th and 10th will have $0.00 divided equally among them. Lucky ducks!

St Joseph Short Story

Based on the Biblical account of Joseph, the earthly father of Jesus, though there were some bits that seemed different to the Biblical account (e.g., Mary and Joseph finding shelter in a cave rather than a stable). Also, there was no mention of Mary being pregnant at all until baby Jesus popped up in the cave. Maybe such things weren’t discussed with young tykes (just as they couldn’t use the word ‘pregnant’ when Lucy Riccardo was having a baby in ‘I Love Lucy’).

Pius XII

I didn’t know anything about this Pope, so it sounds like he was a good advocate for the poor and downtrodden. Do any of you bright cookies know what Mussolini meant about the ‘dismemberment of Catholic action’?

I did a quick check and found that a decree against communism was issued during his term as Pope, such that Catholics who became communists would be excommunicated. An interesting snippet, given that the ‘Treasure Chest’ comic warns against the red peril.

Koroseal

Ah, the solution to every problem known to humankind. I had never heard of it and my quick search mainly came up with interior decorating sites. Thanks Crashryan, for clarifying that it’s PVC. At least I’ve heard of that. Did it end up actually being used in all those applications? I guess teachers could tie it in with science and ignore the blatant product placement.

Droopy

As others have noted, a pretty poor gag.

Musk-Ox Men

They look like aliens from a B-grade sci-fi schlock film. Scarcely 1000 whites live there? I guess it doesn’t matter if there are any indigenous people and what they might have thought of this exploration. And too bad there are no illustrations of the fish net underwear. That would have made this info piece more interesting.

Sir Galahad

Being part of a continuing story, it seems a bit disjointed. Does the Holy Land have cute woodland creatures like bunnies and squirrels?

Odd Inventions

It’s easy to see why those ones never made it big. Who wouldn’t like to grate their cheese with the contraption they’d just used to catch the mouse?

Overall

I’m a Christian who went to Sunday School as a kid, though Protestant not Catholic. If the Sunday School teacher had given us a comic book with some of the things we were meant to know, I probably would have been happy. However, I’m not sure this type of comic book would have grabbed me. If it’s being distributed in Catholic schools, I can see how it would serve a purpose in giving information about Catholic figures and ceremonies or traditions that they might be learning about (like the Pope, the saints and the Living Rosary), and there’s an attempt to convey good morals and a bit of general knowledge. However, the storytelling isn’t very engaging and the art is patchy – good on some stories, but not on others. Even though the emphasis is on Catholic concepts, I was surprised there wasn’t at least one Bible story in the mix. Presumably they learned Bible stories as well as specifically Catholic material. Anyway, I did learn a few things from the comic. It just wasn’t the most riveting read.

Cheers

QQ

[Quirky Quokka]

Treasure Chest

I could swear we had another issue of this lovely comic earlier in the Reading Group but I can't for the life of me work out when or where. Anyhow, let's go boldly on...

K1ngcat, your memory serves you correctly. It was Reading Group #288 'What Lurks Behind the Red Tab'. Treasure Chest #15 was one of those and we were discussing why it would have appeared as the top download.

Artistically pretty good, but after years of playing the Devil's music, I'm not sure I'm the right man to get the message here.

You're not alone, K1ngcat. Christian rock bands and artists have sometimes had the same accusation levelled against them. Hence Larry Norman's rebuttal in his song 'Why Should the Devil Have all the Good Music?' You might have heard the Cliff Richard version, but here's Larry's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVyNnKsmdok

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Treasure Chest

(1) I could swear we had another issue of this lovely comic earlier in the Reading Group but I can't for the life of me work out when or where. Anyhow, let's go boldly on...

Things kick off with a good old-fashioned dose of reds-under-the-bed scare mongering thanks to J Edgar Hoover, who also writes the foreword.  In other times I would have laughed at this, but given the shit-storm Mr Putin has released on our previously peaceful world, maybe there's a grain of truth in it after all. Anyhow, perestroika is well and truly over, I'm gonna go check under the bed again tonight. Lovely art by Reed Crandall.

Chuck White is heading for Canada, I can only say, "Mercy, saints alive boys, looks like we got us a convoy!" I guess CB radio was topical at the time. Why they're going I just can't say, my my, is it Armageddon already?    Saved only by the artwork of Fran Matera, of whom more here: https://www.lambiek.net/artists/m/matera_fran.htm

Rafer Johnson was obviously a great sportsman of his day, and (2), he did it all with God's help. (2) A lot of great sportsmen and women seem to attribute their successes to God, so maybe I missed out on something there. I was always crap at sports, but it never occurred to me to ask for help. 

Two more pages from Fran Matera on the Statue of Liberty. I prefer Lou Reed's version:
(3) "Give me your tired, your hungry, your poor, I'll piss on 'em
That's what the Statue of Bigotry says
Your poor huddled masses, let's club 'em to death
And get it over with, and just dump 'em on the boulevard."
Lyrics from "Dirty Boulevard" on the 1989 "New York" album.
I've always had a dark sense of humour. 

What does your city's name mean?
Well, three out of five say (4) "We stole this place from the Indians."
See what I mean?

The Champ & The Pirates is a little hard to understand shorn of previous issues, but the art of Frank Borth https://www.lambiek.net/artists/b/borth_frank.htm does a lot to make it worth a read. The basic background suggests that The Champ is a fat kid who sometimes makes good, though he doesn't seem to manage in this episode. And surely they're not really pirates?

Father John goes to Paris. Some guys have all the luck.

Lloyd Ostendorf, noted artist with an Abe Lincoln fixation, graces the pages of this story of St Anthony of Padua. He gives up a life of luxury to become a follower of St Francis of Assisi. When the people won't listen to his gospels he talks to the animals, or in this case fishes and a mule. What a guy!  Again the quality of the artwork does a lot to make this worth seeing.

Artistically pretty good, but after years of playing the Devil's music, I'm not sure I'm the right man to get the message here.    Lovely choice though, Robb, appreciated.

All the best
K1ngcat

(1) No, our Reading Group hasn't reviewed any other issues of "Treasure Chest" before this one.  I checked through the list posted above in the
"Put Your Book Suggestions here:" thread, from April 2021, and checked every thread, individually, after that, and no cigar!  You must be remembering a discussion over that series in The "Comments Made On Our Books' Section, soon after one was uploaded.  I also remember an interesting discussion of a book from that series.

(2) As much as I can't understand the religious idea that The All-Powerful Creator of The Universe , who can do anything wants, and creates a planet which operates on its own (after its creation), and if things go against his liking, he INTERVENES, interfering with the supposed "free will".  IF The Creator of everything is all-powerful, EVERYTHING and action comes from HIM, why does he feel the need to intervene very infrequently, and blame Humankind for straying from the path HE prefers, and so intervenes, and also intervenes to help Humankind when they have been behaving in an approved way, by interfering with free will by changing what otherwise would have happened in history by answering their prayers only because they formally asked for that help?  Wouldn't a Creator who knows and sees all and is above time have already known they would want that help, and have already scheduled it in their life plans?  I'd better stop with this religious tangent before I get permanently banned.

Regardless of that conundrum, I just want to make the point that it seems more likely to me that those athletes were likely thanking God that they were born with healthy bodies, and body parts conducive to excellent athletic performance (i.e. tensile ligaments and tendons, long limbs strong bones good frame to take on muscle weight, good hand-eye coordination, good eyesight, etc, and also for making their characters such that they had the desire and discipline, and fortitude to dedicate a large portion of their time and effort to achieving their sports goals, because they enjoy participating in their sport so much.   I doubt that they prayed to God to help them become top-notch athletes, and are thanking him for granting their wishes.

(3) Funny!  I've never heard that song by Lou Reed, - but that impression of New York was right down the alley with MY first impression of the place, in 1969.  I've never been there again, outside of stopovers for plane changes, in Kennedy Airport (about 30 times).

(4)         

I couldn't resist looking up the meanings of the names of my main home towns:
Winnipeg means "Muddy Waters" in The Cree language.  Interesting that I've been a Blues fan from an early age, and Muddy Waters was always my favourite Blues singer!!
West Kildonan was named after the western area of Kildonan, which was not included in the incorporation of the Manitoban town of Kildonan.  It was founded by immigrants from the Scottish town of Kildonan, on the Island of Arran, in The Firth of Clyde(who bought the land from The Hudson's Bay Company in 1812. "Kildonan", in Scottish Gaelic, was named after a wooden church in a wooded area, the church, in turn, named honouring Saint Donan.

"Chicago" was named Shekâkôhaki, a Sauk word meaning "land of onions."  Homewood means a wooded area containing a home.

Den Haag was named for an organised farming area with its different crop individual fields bounded (e.g. fenced off) by hedges (hedge rows). 

"Wadi es Sir" in Arabic language means "the river or creek canyon or stream bed, one can walk through".
"Gonder" means "beside the lake" in Amharic (Ethiopian) language.
"Gedaref" (Al Qadareef) in Arabic means "Place of The Judges".

The village in which I reside, in Denmark, means "small clearing (in the forest), in Danish.  The tiny village in which I dwell in The Netherlands means "old, not (quite?) a village", as opposed to its nearest neighbouring "not quite a village", which is named "New, not quite a village".  Maybe OUR tiny, not quite a village, is still low enough in Human population to fail to reach the bar of villagehood (e.g. not be designated as an official village).  But our newer neighbour, with several hundred people, has certainly been a village at least for a few hundred years.

[SuperScrounge]

Apparently a ‘shillelagh’ is a walking stick with club or cudgel that was used as a gentleman’s weapon. After looking that up, I’m no clearer as to why the teen was going to bring along his grandfather’s shillelagh. Is it used ceremonially?

A shillelagh is used in Ireland, Father O'Malley is Irish, and a lot of Catholics are Irish, so I'd guess the teen wants to bring it to honor his ancestors... or just live up to the stereotype. 

Thanks SuperScrounge, for clarifying that it’s PVC.

It was Crashryan who pointed that out.

[Quirky Quokka]

Apparently a ‘shillelagh’ is a walking stick with club or cudgel that was used as a gentleman’s weapon. After looking that up, I’m no clearer as to why the teen was going to bring along his grandfather’s shillelagh. Is it used ceremonially?

A shillelagh is used in Ireland, Father O'Malley is Irish, and a lot of Catholics are Irish, so I'd guess the teen wants to bring it to honor his ancestors... or just live up to the stereotype. 

Thanks SuperScrounge, for clarifying that it’s PVC.

It was Crashryan who pointed that out.

Thanks for making the connection with the Shillelagh, SuperScrounge. And Whoops about my misremembered Koroseal point. I've changed it in my original post so it now acknowledges Crashryan. 

Cheers

QQ

[K1ngcat]

Robb, I can only say:

1) The Quirky Quokka has found the link that you and I both missed in RG#288.

2) Sorry if my remarks were too open to interpretation, I had no intent to suggest that those sportsmen and women who credited God with help in their successes were anything other than sincere. I was only making light of the fact that my lack of religious faith may have contributed to my lack of sporting success. 

3) I'm a big Lou Reed fan, the New York album was considered one of his finest achievements, where he pretty much speaks his mind about the state of America at that time. My, but he had a wicked tongue! 

4) Well you got that one right! 

5) I can't fault your musical tastes! 

Thanks for your fascinating and informative post, Robb, much enjoyed and appreciated.

All the best
K1ngcat

[K1ngcat]

Treasure Chest

I could swear we had another issue of this lovely comic earlier in the Reading Group but I can't for the life of me work out when or where. Anyhow, let's go boldly on...

K1ngcat, your memory serves you correctly. It was Reading Group #288 'What Lurks Behind the Red Tab'. Treasure Chest #15 was one of those and we were discussing why it would have appeared as the top download.

Artistically pretty good, but after years of playing the Devil's music, I'm not sure I'm the right man to get the message here.

You're not alone, K1ngcat. Christian rock bands and artists have sometimes had the same accusation levelled against them. Hence Larry Norman's rebuttal in his song 'Why Should the Devil Have all the Good Music?' You might have heard the Cliff Richard version, but here's Larry's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVyNnKsmdok

Cheers

QQ

QQ, thanks for the Larry Norman link, a great song that brought one or two wry smiles to this old Bluesman's face!  And thanks for the detective work on that previous issue of  Treasure Chest, it's always comforting to know I'm not just imagining things!

All the best
K1ngcat

[Robb_K]

Treasure Chest

I could swear we had another issue of this lovely comic earlier in the Reading Group but I can't for the life of me work out when or where. Anyhow, let's go boldly on...

K1ngcat, your memory serves you correctly. It was Reading Group #288 'What Lurks Behind the Red Tab'. Treasure Chest #15 was one of those and we were discussing why it would have appeared as the top download.

Artistically pretty good, but after years of playing the Devil's music, I'm not sure I'm the right man to get the message here.

AHA!!!  I DID remember correctly that we DID discuss a "Treasure Chest" issue on this thread topic section.  I just couldn't find it, when I looked to see IF we had chosen this series before, because it wasn't referred to in the thread title.  I hadn't remembered that it was so very recent, or I might have found it.  In any case, it isn't a problem to review a completely different issue of the same series, especially when the two issues were released at least several years apart, and had different creators, and very different story plots.  We've done that several times before.  Good job ferreting it out!

You're not alone, K1ngcat. Christian rock bands and artists have sometimes had the same accusation levelled against them. Hence Larry Norman's rebuttal in his song 'Why Should the Devil Have all the Good Music?' You might have heard the Cliff Richard version, but here's Larry's:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVyNnKsmdok

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Robb, I can only say:
(2) Sorry if my remarks were too open to interpretation, I had no intent to suggest that those sportsmen and women who credited God with help in their successes were anything other than sincere. I was only making light of the fact that my lack of religious faith may have contributed to my lack of sporting success. 

(5) I can't fault your musical tastes!

All the best
K1ngcat

(2)  It is I who should apologise for my first realising that you were simply making a light-hearted  joke, and then ignoring that fact and accusing you of misinterpreting the Christian athletes' attitudes, because I had some self-destructive desire to get banned for starting an off-topic religious discussion, and taking it too far.

Because I shared that feeling that so many young boys have of wanting to fit in with the crowd, and not being good enough at sports to be decent enough at it to be one of the "more accepted' boys' social crowd, I can understand why someone who believes in a Universal Creator might ask that entity for help achieving his or her goals in life.  But, as a scientist, with a modern viewpoint, who can't believe in The Hebrew or Christian or Moslem or Pagan Scriptures taken literally, based on the point of view (and knowledge base) of some people who lived thousands of years ago, I still wanted to make the point that the super athletes like Rafer Johnson, might be thanking their concept of what operates The Universe, for having provided them with the natural gifts and character qualities to experience participation in the sport they love, and all the joy it brings them.

It's tough to review religiously-oriented books and not stray into a potentially offensive (to someone) discussion.


(5) You can't fault my musical taste because Muddy Waters is my favourite Blues singer?  Or was it because I stated that I prefer Cliff Richard's version of "Why Should The Devil Have All The Good Music?" over Larry Norman's remake?   

[crashryan]

Illustrated Stories of the Opera: Faust

We've covered most of this already. It's a good adaptation with good artwork and a readable story. However I'm not convinced Bernard Baily drew it. I know Baily mostly from his early 50s comics rather than his 40s work, so I could be all wet. Baily was a capable artist but this just doesn't look like his style.

Apparently the hypothesis is that Baily drew all four of the opera adaptations. I can state with certainty that this isn't the case. Comparing the random Aida pages with Faust it's clear they were drawn by a different artist. Again, I've no guess who. The Rigoletto cover has a strong H.C. Kiefer vibe, but without seeing more pages I can't be sure.

One thing all four have in common is a cover featuring a provocative woman. Mightn't have set well with educational institutions.

[The Australian Panther]

Because I shared that feeling that so many young boys have of wanting to fit in with the crowd, and not being good enough at sports to be decent enough at it to be one of the "more accepted' boys' social crowd was not a good feeling.

I had similar expereinces.
I was born with a 'lazy eye' which wasn't diagonosed until I was about 6. I was never good at ball sports - and never tried to play them which will always brand you as an outsidfer in Australian male society.
In additioin, my father was a seaman and never played sport for demonstrated interest in it as opposed to his brothers and my male cousins who did but who were several hundered ks away from where we lived and didn't have any influence on me in my early days.
Yeah, feeling like a pariah is not a good feeling. To add to that, I was in a school in a small town but my family had just moved there when I started school so I was a stranger. I has come from an even smaller town, [about 6 houses] and had no experience of playmates of my own age. I was also literate and numerate to a higher standard than many of my male contemporaries and was also physically bulllied for a year or two.
And some of these factors I have only just undedstood in recent years.   
But that wasn't the whole picture. I did have a small group of boys who accepted me outside of the school environment - a sortt of gang - not in the negative sense. So, I never had the strong feeling of 'wanting to be accepted' I think, because I never was made to feel entirely rejected.
By Highschool I had learned to fit in while not compromising my individuality.   
Much later I learned to love some sports as spectator sports - particularly Rugby League. And I learned to play and love Volleyball.       

[Quirky Quokka]

Because I shared that feeling that so many young boys have of wanting to fit in with the crowd, and not being good enough at sports to be decent enough at it to be one of the "more accepted' boys' social crowd was not a good feeling.

I had similar experiences.
I was born with a 'lazy eye' which wasn't diagonosed until I was about 6. I was never good at ball sports - and never tried to play them which will always brand you as an outsider in Australian male society ...

I was also literate and numerate to a higher standard than many of my male contemporaries and was also physically bulllied for a year or two.

I'm sorry to hear that, Panther. One of the sad legacies of Australian ockerism is that those boys who weren't so good at those 'manly' sports like football were often ostracised or bullied. I had a lovely friend called Paul who used to hang around with our female group of friends because he was more sensitive and into music like we were. Needless to say that didn't go down so well with some of the boys. Hopefully things are changing and there's more recognition that both boys and girls can be interested in, and excel at, pursuits that were once more gender-stereotyped. You wouldn't know it to look at me now, but I was a good swimmer and softballer back in the day  But music and artsy things were more my passion.

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Illustrated Stories of the Opera: Faust

We've covered most of this already. It's a good adaptation with good artwork and a readable story. However I'm not convinced Bernard Baily drew it. I know Baily mostly from his early 50s comics rather than his 40s work, so I could be all wet. Baily was a capable artist but this just doesn't look like his style.

Apparently the hypothesis is that Baily drew all four of the opera adaptations. I can state with certainty that this isn't the case. Comparing the random Aida pages with Faust it's clear they were drawn by a different artist. Again, I've no guess who. The Rigoletto cover has a strong H.C. Kiefer vibe, but without seeing more pages I can't be sure.

One thing all four have in common is a cover featuring a provocative woman. Mightn't have set well with educational institutions.

I agree with you 100%.  I think Baily may have drawn Aida. That's the one of the 4 issues art styles that looks, by far, most like his style based on his credited work I've seen.  But, for Baily to start his own publishing firm (Baily Publishing), he had to have a packaging team.  He had already been packaging comics production for Chesler and a few other publishers during the late 1930s and early 1940s.  His packaging firm had a team of at least 4 artists through much of his run (some were with him longer than others, most came in for awhile and were replaced by someone else). It, like was a smaller scale than Leon Jason's JCA, or Jaquette's Funnies, Inc., more like Louis Ferstadt's, or Jerry Iger's and Will Eisner's team.  In any case, his name was on the credits for all 4.  But that may be for producer (e.g. "project Manager).  Although, come to think of it, he was listed by Bails as having drawn many stories for Chesler in the late 1930s, and I don't remember ANY Chesler stories from that period having any art looking as detailed with such high-quality inking and figure proportions, shading, and perspectives as that of "Faust", "Rigoletto", or even Aida.  So, either he got significantly better over the years or they were all drawn by others of his artist team.  His team included his partner, Mac Raboy, and included (some at different times) Gil Kane, Carmine Infantino, Frank Frazetta, John Giunta, Dan Berry, Dick Briefer, Manny Stallman, and Nina Albright.  But, I think several of those artists were working heavily for other publishers when the opera series was drawn in 1943.  Do you see any of their styles in the artwork of any of the 4 opera books?

[Quirky Quokka]

Treasure Chest Vol 17 #2

I'll put a review of the whole comic up later in the week, but I just wanted to make a couple of comments about the Godless Communism story. On one hand, the stern letter from J. Edgar Hoover and serious warning about communism seems to go against the comic book's tagline of 'a treasure chest of fun and fact'. It doesn't start out in the 'fun' way of other issues. But it was published at an interesting time of history in terms of the Cold War.

The publication date of Sep 28, 1961 would have been the next issue published after I was born, so I've always been interested in what was happening around that time. The McCarthy-era witch hunts of the 1950s had died down (indeed McCarthy died in 1957), but the space race was well underway, with the Russians beating the Americans with Sputnik (1957) and the first man in space with Gagarin in April 1961. Then in August 1961, the Germans starting building the Berlin Wall. The following year would see the Cuban Missile Crisis. So the 'Red Scare' was alive and well. I can understand why they might have wanted to educate children about the potential dangers at that time.

I thought it was interesting that they used the 'What If?' scenario. What would America look like if the Communists invaded and took over? Was it propaganda? Scare-mongering? An element of truth? Would those things have happened?

It also reminded me of the 'What if' graphic novel 'Superman: Red Son' by Mark Millar, Dave Johnson and Kilian Plunkett. Has anyone read it? It was published in 2003 but I only came across it last year. It imagines what would have happened if baby Superman's space capsule had landed in the Soviet Union at the end of Stalin's reign instead of a rural area in the American heartland. An interesting story, though a number of the threads weren't fully developed in my opinion.

Anyway, I thought the Godless Communism story was an interesting way to kick off a school comic book. Maybe not the 'fun' they were expecting, but very topical at the time.

Cheers

QQ

[Robb_K]

Treasure Chest Vol 17 #2

I'll put a review of the whole comic up later in the week, but I just wanted to make a couple of comments about the Godless Communism story. On one hand, the stern letter from J. Edgar Hoover and serious warning about communism seems to go against the comic book's tagline of 'a treasure chest of fun and fact'. It doesn't start out in the 'fun' way of other issues. But it was published at an interesting time of history in terms of the Cold War.

The McCarthy-era witch hunts of the 1950s had died down (indeed McCarthy died in 1957), but the space race was well underway, with the Russians beating the Americans with Sputnik (1957) and the first man in space with Gagarin in April 1961. Then in August 1961, the Germans starting building the Berlin Wall. The following year would see the Cuban Missile Crisis. So the 'Red Scare' was alive and well. I can understand why they might have wanted to educate children about the potential dangers at that time.

I thought it was interesting that they used the 'What If?' scenario. What would America look like if the Communists INVADED and took over? Was it propaganda? Scare-mongering? An element of truth? Would those things have happened?
Cheers

QQ

I'm surprised that I'm the only member of this thread who doesn't think that this story is to give the readers an idea of what would happen to their country if The Soviet Russians would invade and conquer their country, but is actually to have their youth be on guard against the sinister Communist ideas, ideals, and values that could soon be infiltrating into The American masses, from activity of Communist spies and agents of sabotage and propaganda, aimed at changing The Americans' traditional values of individualism, piety, hard work, pulling their own weight, limited power of government, free markets and keeping the fruits of one's own labour, to infiltrate into high positions in their labour unions, and soften them up and methodically change their thinking towards The Communist way, so that they would eventually embrace Communism.  And soon, "The Commies" could take over in peaceful elections. And then, after they gain power, they would start implementing their repressive measures.  That is a much "safer" way to take over, with virtually no resistance until the power is in their enemies' hands, and it is too late to do anything about it.  That is precisely how Mussolini and Hitler took over their countries.  Of course, the entire right wing would also want young boys to want to either join their military to fight The Communist Scourge, protecting their families from invasion, and more importantly, they'd want their children to grow up eager to gladly vote for providing the absolute maximum possible funding for their country's military organisations.

At least, that was my impression of The USA's paranoia over The Communist threat led by The Russians during the 1950s and early '60s.  After all, most of us Canadians resided less than 100 miles from The US border.  We had access to many of their newspapers, and TV News, and mass media, and lots of Americans crossed the border daily, and many of us had extended family members working and living in The US.  We knew their opinions on things.  Most Americans I knew at that time felt pretty good about The US Military holding off a Russian invasion.  They were more worried about a nuclear war, which would have left USA AND The Soviet Union so devastated that the new, Communist USA scenario couldn't be possible.  Not enough people would be left alive on either side to result in that situation. 

I think this propaganda was more likely designed to, first, instill a morbid fear of their country falling under Communist control (peacefully from within, OR through invasion, and a hatred of Communist values and ideals, because they would take away individual freedoms, and have less production and wealth to be divided among the masses because under that system, there is no incentive for the intelligent and talented achievers to work hard because the amount of their individual production over the low average, will just be taken away from them.  So, EVERYONE would be worse off EVEN IF there were no intentionally repressive government leaders taking much more than their shares (leaving much less for the masses).  Which, of course they know would ALWAYS occur.  I think the publishers wanted their readers to grow up without any chance of giving the philosophy and institution of Communism the slightest benefit of the doubt.  They must hate it to its core, and fight it on every front, from a young age.