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Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton  (Read 1220 times)

The Australian Panther

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Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« on: October 16, 2023, 06:15:36 AM »

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=33126
Maneely at Charlton

Just to be clear, I had this one in mind before I read that exchange between QQ and Kingcat. So not attempting to stir!

One problem with all our books being PD is that there are artists and work that we don't host and therefore can't discuss.
I love Maneeley's work, so when I saw this compilation, I thought I would choose it, to give Maneeley some exposure on CB+.
OtherEric, the uploader has contributed a frontispiece which is a more than adequate introduction to the man's work.
There are 70 pages, so I have only chosen one book. 

An Aside, re books we can't highlight here.
Yes, most Charlton Books are PD, but not all.
For a while they had a contract  from KIng, but we can't host that work here.
I don't think they had Mandrake, but they did have the Phanton, Paw's current avatar is from that source.
Not sure if they had Flash Gordon, but they did have Jungle Jim. That was originally an Alex Raymond work and like all of Raymond's work, attracts the best artists.
I recently found out - None of the Charlton King comics were distributed in OZ as far as I am aware- that Charlton's Jungle Jim was firstly by Wally Wood, and there is one book that my eyes tell me, is Steve Ditko inkerd by Wood!!!
The rest are by Pat Boyette, who is far from my favorite artist, but his Jungle Jim's are probably the best work I have seen from him.   
Anyway, looking forward to the commehts.
Cheers!               
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2023, 07:38:39 AM »

It's a nice-looking package that Eric produced.  It was a difficult chore that Charleton handed Joe Maneely, so many really short story slots.  I suppose he had the freedom to write stories and fit their individual page counts to the optimum size given their plots.  However, I'm sure that Charlton's story editor gave him a minimum number of stories he could write to fit his portion of "Cowboy Western #67" (22 pages), and that must have been 5 stories (which ended up forcing him to have to write a 3 super-short (2,3, and a 4-page stories).  To ME, it'd difficult to really develop a plot in any less than 5 or 6 pages (and even then, that size is really too small for me to enjoy reading it very much).  Eight pages is about the shortest I'd want to work with to tell a Western story that is more than a vignette.  Too much that should be drawn, and written, would be missing. 

Nevertheless, I'll read them, and see how well Maneely did drawing out what the writers/scriptors composed for him, under those difficult constraints.  I know he was a talented artist.  So, it will be interesting to see how viable and entertaining those super-short stories are.
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2023, 08:19:44 AM »



Maneely at Charlton

Just to be clear, I had this one in mind before I read that exchange between QQ and Kingcat. So not attempting to stir!



Never fear, Panther. I don't mind Charlton comics and you'll probably win over K1ngcat with this one.  :D Looks like an interesting selection. I appreciate the time people take to put together compilations like this that we might not see otherwise.

Cheers

QQ
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2023, 11:43:54 PM »

Maneely at Charlton

Trapped in the Badlands
Nice story and art.

Marked Men!
Cute story, the twist was obvious but otherwise well done. I found the opening splash interesting. I probably would have tried to draw the whole figure of the guy yelling which would have reduced the crooks in the background and left a lot of empty space, but Joe realized the person speaking wasn't important and reduced him to just a pair of legs. Thereby saving a lot of space.

Showdown Street
Looking at the headlines in the final panel I guess the Marshall & editor didn't do that good of a job of fixing the printer.  ;)

At the Governor's Ball
Lighthearted sidekick story. Okay. Wonder if Andy Devine, who played Jingles in the TV show, was as nimble as Joe drew his character?

The Giveaway!
That was a quickie. Joe had a bit of a problem with the coiled snake ring. It seems bigger in the panel where the Marshall recognizes it, but smaller in the next two panels it appears in.

Trouble at Sunrise!
Good thing Jed picked that time to return.  ;) Not the first story I noticed it in, but it seems like Joe likes putting sharp corners on peoples' noses.

The Stagecoach Mystery
All those shots and not one fatality? Another guessable plot twist. Art did it's job.

Gunfighter for Hire!
The writers of these stories don't seem to do much that isn't predictable. I would guess Joe didn't spend much time on getting this one out.

Desperado's Trail
Nice story & art.

Two Guns for Laredo!
Interesting story. Art did what it was supposed to.

The Calamity Kid
Simple story.

The James Gang Strikes
Why do I not think this is historically accurate?

Double Doublecross!!
A more interesting story than some. The art had some oddities. Panel 6 of page 3 (63 overall) & panel 1 of page 4 (64). It appears that Pete backhands Slick and knocks him to the floor, although a punch would seem to fit what happens better. The last three panels of page 7 (67). Donna's hands are in front of her in panel 4, it seems like they are behind her in panel 5 (and she's also looking behind her), but in the last panel her hands are cuffed in front of her. The middle panel messes up the flow of the scene.

The Side of the Law
Odd little tale.

Fight or... Crawl
Okay.

The Vanishing Herd!
The waterfall hideaway has been used so long it seems odd that there was a time no one would have thought of it.

Wyatt Earp's Six-Shooter Secrets
Interesting.

Joe's a good artist, but none of the stories seemed to call for much outside of the basics.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2023, 01:25:25 AM »

Maneely's Wild Bill is a rather sanitised version, minus long great hair and droopy mustache, but I guess we didn't want our Western Heroes looking like some no-good beatnik. And who the heck is Jingles ?   Eventually I discovered it's his chubby sidekick, and it's all based on a TV show, (thanks SS) which explains a lot.  I guess Wyatt Earp was based on the TV series too, as he ain't sportin' no face fungus neither.

Well, the tales themselves are all pretty representative of the genre, good triumphs over evil, etcetera, so it's Maneely's art that's left carrying the can. And on a good day, presumably when he wasn't so pressured for time, his work's pretty neat. Tidy, clean, good facial expressions, realistic horses, nice use of light and shade. But on other strips, the figures and faces take up more of the frame, the backgrounds diminish, the inking gets heavier, and it all looks just a bit hurried.

Compared to a lot of other Charlton artists, mind you, even his hurried stuff is good. I take it that he didn't do anything outside of Westerns or I might've come across his art before. But what's displayed here is still an eye-opener for me, and I regret not seeing his better work at Atlas and Marvel.

Thanks to Yoc and Other Eric for their work in putting this together, and to the Panther for drawing it to our attention. For a crusty old curmudgeon who's not keen on Charlton or Westerns, I still thought it was pretty cool!

All the best
K1ngcat
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2023, 08:53:22 AM »

Glad you liked it, Kingcat.
At Atlas, Joe M also did many war comics and 'strange tales' type stuff and he was far and away Atlas's best Cover Artist until Ditko and Kirby rejoined in the late 50's
But he was also the originator of a few characters many Marvel fans will recognize.
From Lanbiek:-
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/m/maneely_joe.htm
Quote
Joe Maneely was a mid-20th century American comic artist. Between the late 1940s and late 1950s he was a frequent contributor to Atlas Comics (nowadays Marvel Comics). A swift jack-of-all-trades, he drew many stories in equally plentiful different genres. He is best remembered as the co-creator and main artist of the western series 'The Ringo Kid' (1954-1957), 'The Black Knight' (1955-  ) and 'The Yellow Claw' (1956). This latter series introduced both the master villain The Yellow Claw as well as the heroic secret agent Jimmy Woo, who would be featured in several later Marvel Comics series. He only did issue #1.  Maneely also created the gag-a-day comic 'Mrs. Lyons' Cubs' (1957-1958). Unfortunately a tragic train accident ended his career at age 32, making him one of the great "what if?" stories in the history of comics. 

The great parlor game for fans, is 'If he was still around in the early 60's, what superhero would he and Stan Lee' have put him on?
Oh, Jack Kirby did the last few 'Yellow Claw' books,[  Unusually for a Kirby series, other artists drew the covers: Severin on #2 and 4, and Bill Everett on #3.The series only lasted a few issues, as did the Original Black Knight series.       
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2023, 08:16:33 PM »

Maneely's Wild Bill is a rather sanitised version, minus long great hair and droopy mustache, but I guess we didn't want our Western Heroes looking like some no-good beatnik. And who the heck is Jingles ?   Eventually I discovered it's his chubby sidekick, and it's all based on a TV show, (thanks SS) which explains a lot.  I guess Wyatt Earp was based on the TV series too, as he ain't sportin' no face fungus neither.

Yeah the Wild Bill Hickok & Jingles tales are based on the TV show The Adventures of Wild Bill Hickock (IMDB page).
The Wyatt Earp books were probably based on The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp (IMDB)
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2023, 12:07:42 AM »

Quote
The Wyatt Earp books were probably based on The Life and Legend of Wyatt Earp


More like "inspired by." Or maybe "ripped off from." Dell licensed the TV Wyatt Earp and published a dozen issues, give or take. But the show was a big hit and Charlton being Charlton they did their own knockoff. Interestingly Charlton was the first to put a Wyatt Earp comic on the stands. Their Wyatt Earp, Frontier Marshal launched in 1956 (the show debuted in late 1955) while Dell's first licensed book (Four Color #860) appeared in 1957. A funny thing about the Charlton book is that for its first six issues (numbered 12 through 17 in true Charlton fashion) Wyatt was a stocky guy with a mustache who resembled William Conrad. He wore a standard cowboy hat and a buckskin shirt. In issue 18 (1957) he suddenly became tall and slender and wore the vest, bow tie, and flat hat Hugh O'Brien wore in the TV series. Dick Giordano drew a couple of early Charlton stories but the title quickly went to the usual suspects: Mastroserio, Nicholas, Trapani, etc. Couldn't hold a candle to Russ Manning's art on the Dell incarnation.

Edited to add: and Molno, of course. Inevitably Molno.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 01:32:43 AM by crashryan »
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Quirky Quokka

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2023, 07:48:59 AM »

Maneely at Charlton – Part 1

It’s taking me a while to get through this one, so I thought I would make some comments on the stories I’ve read so far. I appreciated the information that Panther and others have given and also the intro to the book by OtherEric. I’ve never heard of this artist, so it helps to have some context. It also helps to realise that this is not necessarily his best work and that the length of some of the stories, and the speed at which they had to be produced, were a factor. I must admit that Westerns are not my favourite genre, though I did generally like his art and there was something of interest in some of the stories I read.

Trapped in the Badlands

Not being familiar with the TV show, I assumed Jingles was the horse until he turned out to be the sidekick in a later story. The story was okay and I thought the sheriff used an interesting ploy to trick the bad guys into thinking he was on their side. The facial expressions on some of the bad guys were better than that of the main character in places, though I liked the action shots and some of the interesting angles (e.g., the close-up in the foreground of p. 4 where we see the boots and spurs of one of the baddies as he falls from his horse). I also liked the technique of using just outline and monochrome for some of the characters in background scenes. So interesting art, but average story.

Marked Men

I liked the opening frame with again the unusual angle and the monochrome background figures. This was one of those stories that could have benefitted from more time to develop the backstories of the characters. The sheriff didn’t seem to have any qualms about catching and jailing his no-good brother, whereas there may have been some mixed feelings in reality. But hey, there are only four pages to tell the story, so we cut to the chase and the moral is pretty obvious.

Showdown Street

More of a filler story. Interesting idea, but not much space to develop it.

At the Governor’s Ball

So we finally get to meet Jingles. Would a pretty young girl be so keen to go to the ball with someone drawn as if he’s middle-aged? (Michael Douglas and Catherine Zeta-Jones aside). But what a gal for focusing on his personality! Love the phrase ‘Jumpin’ Mud Turtles’. Are mud turtles actually a thing? The humour probably doesn’t work as well today, but would have been a nice light story at the time. And you don't have to look like Clint Eastwood to get the girl.

The Giveaway

Another short filler, with this one showing how the sheriff recognised the baddie even though he was wearing a disguise. The frame where the baddie touches his lip should have been a clue we could work out (I missed it), but the other one about the ring relied on info the sheriff knew that we didn’t. Would work better if we could work out all the clues, but again space was the enemy.

Trouble at Sunrise

I thought the old rancher’s face had a lot of character, though I did get confused about the baddie in the cavalry uniform. For a minute, I thought he must have been one of the rancher’s reinforcements, but I guess cavalrymen can turn bad. Or maybe I’m missing something. The backstory of why Jed came back was a bit rushed, but an okay story.

The Stagecoach Mystery

I was expecting a bit more from this because of the word ‘mystery’ in the title. Was the mystery simply that they didn’t know where the stagecoach had been taken? Also, would covering the wheels and hooves in burlap really mean there were no tracks? Presumably there would still be some sort of marks to indicate something as heavy as a stagecoach had gone through there. Again, some interesting angles in the art. I especially liked the gun pointing right at the reader.

So I still have about half the book to read, but based on this part, I would say that the stories are good but not great. Some interesting ideas, but some of them needed more space to fully develop. I liked the art on the whole, especially some of the close-ups, interesting angles and backgrounds. It’s a shame Maneely died so young. It’s interesting to speculate how he would have developed as an artist and storyteller.

Thanks for something a bit different, Panther.

Cheers

QQ
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2023, 08:47:58 AM »

Talk about Serendipity!
Quote
Charlton was the first to put a Wyatt Earp comic on the stands.

Nope! Atlas had their version out in 1955. And who drew the first story? And most of the stories?
Yeah, Joe Maneeley! 
Wyatt Earp (1955 Atlas/Marvel) comic books
https://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=194361
Here are all the covers, most of the early ones by Joe.
Marvel was still publishing it in 1973. [#34]  [Reprints]
So Joe was well aware of Wyatt's mythos.
Wyatt, Billy the Kid, Butch Cassidy, Wild Bill Hickock, Annie Oakley, to name a few were all legendary characters and showed up in comics long before the TV show. We have many examples here on CB+
Here is one example.
Desperado 3 [1948]
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=21345
There are also British and European examples of comic books of all these characters.
But you are right, Crash, Russ Manning for Dell is hard to beat. 
 
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2023, 06:12:16 PM »

Quote

Nope! Atlas had their version out in 1955.


Just to be clear, I was saying that between the Dell and Charlton Wyatt Earp comics the Charlton came first. I didn't mean to say that Charlton's was the first-ever Earp comic. TV westerns were a huge fad in the mid-50s. It's no surprise comics joined the trend.

I'm curious about the timing of the Atlas and Charlton books. The TV show debuted in September of 1955. Atlas' first issue was cover dated November 1955. Given that comic books' cover dates were usually 2-3 months later than the date they actually appeared on newsstands, this suggests the Atlas title was distributed around the same time the show hit the TV. Allowing for a 3-month production schedule Atlas' first issue must have been written and drawn during the summer of 1955 (July, perhaps?). It's possible that Martin Goodman had seen publicity for the upcoming TV series, figured it would be a money maker, and commissioned the comic.

Charlton's first Earp issue was dated January 1956. It likely would have hit the stands shortly after the show began. It still would have to have been in production before the TV series launched. Presumably Charlton saw the same announcement of an upcoming Earp show and like Atlas decided to cash in.

Costuming is a curious matter. In the first few Charlton issues Earp looked nothing like Hugh O'Brian's TV character. With his mustache and buckskin shirt he looked more like Errol Flynn's "Wade Hatton" character in the 1939 feature film Dodge City. A few months later Earp suddenly looks like O'Brian: flat hat, vest, and bow tie. I speculated this was because Charlton began production before having seen either TV episodes or pre-release photos of the star. The artists had to make up their own version.

However Atlas' Earp except for a small mustache, has the O'Brian costume from the beginning. Even though their comic appeared before Charlton's, maybe Charlton had begun production earlier, before promotional photos of O'Brian were released. Or maybe Joe Maneely & Co made a lucky guess. I looked at Earps in older movies to see if the costume might have been inspired by one of them. While individual pieces of the ensemble show up on various characters no Earp wears the whole outfit. Amusingly, the movie character Maneely's Earp most resembles--including mustache--is Cesar Romero's "Doc Halliday [sic]" in 1939's Frontier Marshal.

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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2023, 03:02:23 AM »

We have a tendency to think about comic creations and creators in isolation.
In reality, many of the same individuals worked in many fields that relied on writers and artists.
Movies, TV, Animation, Magazines, Newspapers, Radio.
It's more than probable that comics producers had advance warning of TV shows and could plan to obtain the same audience. These days, post Star Ways, that's deliberate policy. 
Curiously, Dell obviously had the official license to publish the character but the earliest I can find for their Wyatt Earp is 1958
The earliest CB+ has is #4, but there would have been four-color editions before that I think. .
cheers!           
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 11:09:19 AM by The Australian Panther »
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2023, 04:26:18 AM »

Panther, we do have the earliest Dell Wyatt Earps onsite. They're Four Color # 860, 890, and 921. The first issue is dated November 1957, which is still two years after the TV series began. For what it's worth, here's my theory. Charlton and Atlas both had one guy at the top who decided which books to print. Both tended to jump right away onto anything that seemed popular. Neither seem to have had any special relationship with TV or movie studios. Dell/Western had lots of TV and movie connections but they also seem to have had more cautious financial folk. Consider how they'd try a property out for a while as Four Color one-shots before committing to a regular series. Maybe they waited to see if the TV show had legs. Along with Gunsmoke, which debuted at the same time, Wyatt Earp was one of the first two prime time Westerns of the 50s. Perhaps Dell didn't think an adult cowboy show would last more than a season. Meanwhile Atlas and Charlton beat them to the stands. It also occurred to me that Desilu, which produced the show, may have for reasons of their own delayed licensing a  comic book version. 'Tis a puzzlement.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 04:54:15 AM by crashryan »
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2023, 07:18:11 AM »

According to an issue of Comic Book Artist, Helen Meyer of Dell would decide how many issues of the various comics that Western would put out a year. So it's possible Western realized that Wyatt Earp could be popular and they licensed the rights, but someone at Dell (either Meyer or someone higher up) didn't.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2023, 05:51:07 PM »

Remember those '80 Page Giants' that DC used to put out? This collection reminded me of one of those. The production work on it was splendid. I hope it helps in some small way to keep his memory going. I'm with you, Q.Q., I had never heard of the man until this post. Ironically, I have no doubt that I read some of his Charlton stuff, my cousins probably even owned a couple.
I really enjoyed westerns and western comics when I was little. I eventually gave them up when I figured out I was really enjoying the movies of John Ford and Howard Hawks and that the comics were pretty static. I think the first comic I enjoyed MORE than the TV or movie was the Toth ZORRO series.

I probably just would have instinctively enjoyed Maneely's work more because he was 'the good artist', but never would have bothered to try and figure out who he was. Sort of like reading a Carl Barks story in a Disney reprint, but not being wise enough to know the reasons why I enjoyed it more. And a lot of those Charlton westerns were pretty bland and inter-changeable.

Now true confession time. I was in for admiring the artwork. But the stories themselves?? I'd touch down now and then and wonder if you could make a drinking game out of the whole thing. You know, one shot every time a cliché is tossed off. I have the feeling you'd be blind stinking drunk in no time.
But this work ranks right up there with the miracles that Ditko pulled off for Charlton. Craftsmanship under adverse conditions.
Thanks for introducing him to us, Panther




« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 07:04:56 PM by Morgus »
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EHowie60

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2023, 03:12:06 PM »

Alright, a collection of Joe Maneely art today, an artist I'm unfamiliar with. The word "potboiler" comes to mind here. Sounds like Maneely was working at Charleton because it was work.

Like K1ngcat, I noticed Wild Bill's lack of mustache and long hair here. He's drawn as a 50s Western hero, not as he was in life. I like the fight scene on page 5. Nice action lines, especially that haymaker! "Big Mike" wants to keep his upcoming rustling a secret, and to do that he picked Trask, a man whose first instinct is to wander into town and shoot his gun at the saloon ceiling. Our short haired hero goes undercover, and as always the law is victorious!

My, these short 3-5 pagers are a little cramped, aren't they? "Showdown Street" is over almost before it can explain what's going on!

Love the panel of "Barrows" pointing his gun on page 34. He looks every bit the desperate outlaw.

You know, one wouldn't notice with the stories spread out, but bunched together like this I notice that the Cactus City Bank gets hit twice in this collection. Must be a rough town!

"Double Double Cross" has the advantage of novelty. A lady crook trying to get her partner killed so she can ride off with the money. I wonder if she was actually wanting to run away with Wyatt or if that was just another ploy.

All in all, lovely Western art here. Reading about Maneely has me wondering "what might has been". If he hadn't died young, would he have still been around at Timely/Marvel as they began the Silver Age of superheroes?
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #16 on: October 22, 2023, 04:57:03 PM »

I discovered Maneely's excellent some years ago while preparing an article on chivalry, knights, historical and present, for a fanzine. It was a revelation reading his Black Knight comics. I'm a big fan of historicals like that especially some of the great Spanish characters - El Guerrero del Antifaz, Capitan Trueno etc and the the heroes in Thriller Picture Library.
Search for the Atlas Black Knight books - I'm sure you know where to find them.
This compilation is good fun but as with a lot of Charlton material, there's not a lot of depth to most of the stories.  Those really short ones are frustrating, and the saving grace in most is Maneely's work, however fast and undetailed. 
Actually, if you can find The Black Knight, secret i/d and all, you'll get an idea of what he could have done with superheroes and masked mystery men.
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Morgus

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #17 on: October 24, 2023, 12:34:04 AM »

Gosh, that’s what I forgot to do...take a guess what would have happened if he had not met such an untimely end.

He drew great fights, and his work on sci-fi and mystery was petty good. Maybe he could have done a great job  with DR. STRANGE after Ditko left.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2023, 06:10:05 PM »

It's very obvious that this Charlton Western series was based on the American TV series "The Adventures of Wild Bill Hickock", which ran through most of The 1950s (1951-58), starring guy Madison as Hickock, and Andy Devine as his pudgy sidekick, Jingles.  Before that, Devine was a Western lawman's or cowboy hero's comedic sidekick in several Western film series during the 1940s, mainly as Roy Rogers' sidekick, "Cookie" in 10 films. Maneely drew Devine in a recognisable manner, but Madison was so "generic" that it is hard to distinguish him from any other generically-drawn young lawman in 1950s American Western comic book series.  That may have been because Maneely was forced to draw very quickly, to make his Charlton pay worth working for them, because the rate was so low.  Apparently, he took those jobs because there was nothing else around for him during that period.

The uncluttered look of the pages (lack of background detail and characters' physical features, and the "fresh "spontaneous" (sketchy) look of the artwork reveals that he drew it as quickly as possible. 

But the major, overlying trait of the stories is their short length, which makes them feel more like scenario summaries or vignettes, rather than complete stories, as there are not enough pages, panels dialogue balloons and narrative boxes, to include enough text, or show enough action to establish an adequate setting, develop enough characterisation of the characters, develop a plot, and show a full climax scene, and even add epilogues to their "story" endings.  To me, reading them is not a very enjoyable experience, because it feels like only seeing a couple still photos from a film or TV show, quickly flashing across a screen, and having to quickly try to figure out what the scenario is all about, and fill in the missing data in your mind to make some sense of the "story" behind it.  It is more like a quiz, in which the contestant must discern the plot, and character history and motives, in a matter of seconds, and consolidate it into an assessment of the "story".  For me, it would be much more enjoyable to have the entire book dedicated to a single story, with a decent-sized setting established, and using ample room to establish enough character history, and character motives, establish and develop the plot (or plot and counter-plot) with proper pacing to reveal enough of what is happening, but also preserve enough suspense to keep the reader interest, but not reveal too much too quickly, to avoid weakening the effect of the climax scenes and impact of the story ending.

There were several good plot ideas for stories.  But there was, in none of the cases, enough page room to develop them even remotely adequately.  The scenario of the shipping company owner hiring criminal thugs to rob his chief competitors' shipments, to discredit them, so he could not only benefit from selling the "booty" from the robberies, but also put the rival out of business, and pick up all the latter's customers as well, comes to mind.  But, even given several good plot ideas, I'd have hated being assigned any of the writing, storyboarding or penciling jobs for these Western "stories" for these 36-page books.  And, as far as reading these so-called "stories", I'd much rather read longer Western stories from the 1940s, drawn in much more detail by the better artists that appeared in 52, 60 or 68-page books, where they had a bit more "room to breathe".  I even prefer to read ongoing, serialised stories, that, at least, had room to establish settings, character motivation, and have decent pacing of their plot lines.  Even the waiting for the next short episode of a  Sunday newspaper strip is preferable to reading only a vignette or getting only a scenario summary of an undeveloped story.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2023, 05:55:41 AM »

Maneely at Charlton

Before starting on the art I want to get the stories out of the way. Robb has said most of what I have to say. Reading the stories is like flipping through a card file of cliched western plots. What chance they had of being readable was ruined by their short length. Five pages are bad enough, but three pages? Two pages? Frankly I made it about two thirds of the way through before I gave up and just looked at the pictures. The only story I genuinely liked was the comedy short featuring Andy Devine, Action Hero. For what it's worth only one of the stories I read sounded like Joe Gill, but he wasn't the only hack writer in town.

Joe Maneely was a true treasure. Yes, he spit these stories out, especially the last couple. But even when working at super speed his underlying ability shone through. Typically when an artist craps something out it looks lousy (Jack Sparling on Space Man comes to mind.) Super speed Joe just looks like any typical competent artist.

I like Maneely's supporting characters. Each person has an individual look. Maneely seems especially to have liked drawing bad guys. Maneely's style had just enough cartooniness to make them come alive. He fell down occasionally, though. When the rival stagecoach owner appeared after the robbery, one look at him and you wanted to hang a sign around his neck saying, "I'm the crook, you idiots!"

A hallmark of Maneely's style was inking background figures in outline. The only other artist I recall doing this was Jack Davis, though he only used the trick occasionally. It's an effective way to separate the background from the foreground. This is different from the old cop out of drawing a silhouette around the entire background and filling it with either black or a solid color. Maneely's background outline drawings often had the same attention to detail as his primary figures. The technique did invite slappng a single color over everything. Somehow that doesn't seem as intrusive here as it does with fully-rendered backgrounds.

As for The Marvel Age of Maneely, that's an interesting question. Joe was Stan's favorite artist. I'm sure he'd have had a prominent role. Maneely was blazing fast. He and Kirby probably could have drawn the entire line between them. The books Maneely drew would have looked very different from the 60s Marvels we know. As much as I admire his work I admit he was a more conservative artist than Kirby. Maneely could draw action, to be sure, but he doesn't have the look of a long-underwear man. FF by Maneely? H'mm.

However Maneely's art is a secondary issue. In all I've read about Maneely I never got the impression he had either the skill or the inclination to write his own stuff. Though his early artwork was rather subdued--and hobbled by bad inking--from the beginning Jack Kirby's fevered imagination peopled and shaped the Marvel Universe. Would Joe Maneely have risen to the occasion and provided meat for Stan's skeleton plots? Would Stan-and-Joe books have sold as well as Stan-and-Jack books? I wonder.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2023, 02:10:47 AM »

Robb wrote,
Quote
It was a difficult chore that Charlton handed Joe Maneely, so many really short story slots. 

I'm thinking Charlton was probably just as affected by the downturn in comic sales at this time as Atlas was.
The creators at Charlton seem to me a mutually supportive crew and they would have wanted to keep each other working. It's likely that they knew Joe needed the work but didn't want to deprive one of their regulars a full book assignment, so they gave Joe what they could. If that's so, it must have been frustrating for him and the work shows him doing the best he could with what he was given.
Scrounge wrote, (Among other comments)
Quote
  I found the opening splash interesting. I probably would have tried to draw the whole figure of the guy yelling which would have reduced the crooks in the background and left a lot of empty space, but Joe realized the person speaking wasn't important and reduced him to just a pair of legs. Thereby saving a lot of space.

I was impressed by how much you analyzed Joe's art in detail. You made me go back and take another look.
Kingcat wrote
Quote
  Compared to a lot of other Charlton artists, mind you, even his hurried stuff is good.

Few artists who worked for Charlton look good because of Charlton's lousy production values.
At least Joe wasn't saddled by Charlton's machine lettering. It would be nice to see an anthology of Sam Glanzman's War stories.for them. Fan of Sam as I am, I don't warm to his Hercules because the lettering, coloring and general production values work against it.
QQ awrote,
Quote
Love the phrase ‘Jumpin’ Mud Turtles’. Are mud turtles actually a thing? 

Couldn't resist it!
mud turtle
https://www.britannica.com/animal/mud-turtle

We have similar small fresh-water turtles in Australia, I have seen them within walking distance of where i live, after rain. 

Crash Ryan wrote,
Quote
  Amusingly, the movie character Maneely's Earp most resembles--including mustache--is Cesar Romero's "Doc Halliday [sic]" in 1939's Frontier Marshal. 
   
Great Film! Here tis.
Frontier Marshal 1939
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnMJlr1MGqg

Morgus wrote,
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But this work ranks right up there with the miracles that Ditko pulled off for Charlton. Craftsmanship under adverse conditions.

Glad I introduced him to you.

Paw wrote,
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  Actually, if you can find The Black Knight, secret i/d and all, you'll get an idea of what he could have done with superheroes and masked mystery men.   

Wot he said!

EHowie60 wrote,
Quote
Like K1ngcat, I noticed Wild Bill's lack of mustache and long hair here. He's drawn as a 50s Western hero, not as he was in life.

Curious.

Crash Ryan wrote,
Quote
Would Joe Maneely have risen to the occasion and provided meat for Stan's skeleton plots? Would Stan-and-Joe books have sold as well as Stan-and-Jack books? I wonder.

Well, Stan and John [Romita] did just as well as Stan and Jack, I think. 
We will always wonder, of course.
Had Joe lived, he would have been at Atlas through the 'Tales' books and the Monster era. I think he could have done some of that material as well as Ditko.
They might have given him Sgt Fury rather than Dick Ayres.
Stan had trouble finding a good team for some of the characters. Jack Kirby never really seemed interested in Antman/ Giantman, never went back to it. Also Daredevil, which didn't get a regular til Gene Colan.  Joe would have done a good Hawkeye.Conan? X-men? We will always wonder.       

I'm happy at the responses to this edition of the Reading Group.

Tomorrow, Robb. Over to you, sir.


     
« Last Edit: October 29, 2023, 10:12:15 AM by The Australian Panther »
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2023, 08:17:44 AM »

Scrounge wrote, (Among other comments)
Quote
  I found the opening splash interesting. I probably would have tried to draw the whole figure of the guy yelling which would have reduced the crooks in the background and left a lot of empty space, but Joe realized the person speaking wasn't important and reduced him to just a pair of legs. Thereby saving a lot of space.

I was impressed by how much you analyzed Joe's art in detail. You made me go back and take another look.

Thanks. I'm not great at analyzing art (and so many others here do it much better), but I tried my best.

They might have given him Sgt Fury rather than Dick Ayres.

Given his work on the Black Knight I wondered what if they gave him Iron Man instead of giving it to Don Heck?
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Yoc

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Re: Reading Group #308 - Maneely at Charlton
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2023, 07:52:05 PM »

This is fun to see this old collection by OtherEric and I getting some in-depth critique by the gang here.
The cover came together nicely.

Anyone that doesn't know Maneely's work, you owe it to yourself to find the real 'good stuff' at Marvel.

-Yoc
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