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[mmiichael]

Hi,

I can tell, from the posts I've read, that there is a poor understanding of what copyright is, and how it applies to posting scans, on this site.

First, there are 2 different things, copyright and trademark.  Mickey Mouse is a trademarked character, but some of the early material featuring the character have had their copyright lapsed.  They are Public Domain, and can be reproduced. Ted Turner currently owns a few MM cartoons that Disney failed to renew at the required 28 year juncture.  Many big budget Hollywood films are PD, and anyone can reproduce them.

Except for a handful of titles with licensed characters, everything ever produced by Charlton is uncopyrighted.  Websites and various fan publishers may say otherwise, but it is confirmed they never bothered to register copyrights, or even post notices on copies.

Another glitch in the law is that is legal to reproduce exactly, a book that was never renewed, even if it features trademarked characters.

For example, things like a DICK TRACY Feature Books from the 30s, produced by a defunct company, like David McKay, can be reproduced entirely - as the book package itself is what was copyrighted, and not renewed.

The majority of old comic books never were, or are no longer copyrighted.  Even those from companies, like DC.  Anything before mid-1938 was never copyrighted, and much of what came after, was never renewed.

Too many people get intimidated by anecdotal media copyright stories

I could go on, but suspect what I'm saying will fall on deaf ears.


Mike Feldman

[misappear]

Mike,

I think the deafness you refer to is caused by the din of confusion surrounding this issue.  People who have a good handle on what's legal vs. what's not don't seem to be talking.

Recently, the fellow who ran the Blackmask website was forced off and out because he claimed that the copyrights on The Shadow and Doc Savage stories had long ago expired.  Conde Nast begged to differ and their legal might prevailed.  I spoke to the Blackmask people at a pulp convention, and they were as confident in their legal position as anyone could be.

I am concerned because of pop/mass culture research work I'm doing.  If I was to include a copy of, say, some 1947 Superman story in an article about artistic or literary theory, or perhaps a cultural trend, I have no idea what I can and can't do with regard to including a print of the story with the article. 

Furthermore, there's some law somewhere that allows for archives, such as the service a library provides in making backnumber magazines available for patrons.  It's probably tied into non-profit status.  Does that mean that a NFP website could archive all comics for research purposes?

After a couple of decades wondering what's reprintable or not (and for what purpose the reprints would be used) it would be nice to get clear and concise guidelines. 

Thank you very much for the information that you've provided.

Dave, the perennial student.

[Aratak]

I can tell, from the posts I've read, that there is a poor understanding of what copyright is, and how it applies to posting scans, on this site.
...
Too many people get intimidated by anecdotal media copyright stories

I could go on, but suspect what I'm saying will fall on deaf ears.

Mike Feldman

Hiya, Mike,
Actually, I think many of the people on this site have a fairly decent grasp of copyright, particularly as it pertains to comics and other fan-favorite media. I, personally, don't ever address it because I've seen it discussed so many times on forums. I was heavily into OTR (Old Time Radio) for a couple of years, and was fascinated by the "gray zone" of copyrighted material that is virtually unprotected simply because there are no controlling entities. I generally assume that most defunct comics material falls into this category. Since most copyrights on works made for hire are good for 75 years after first publication, there is probably not a legal "public domain" but if nobody is going to try to enforce copyright, well, you have a sort of gray zone public domain. If no one has the financial standing and/or werewithal to send out C&D orders, well, there's your de facto public domain.
Best wishes,
John
(Aratak)

[mmiichael]

Thank you Big G, the G man, for you insightful message.

My problem is that you make references to so many things, like the mysterious Rich, who sent you bum CDs.  I, and I think most of us, don't know who or what you are talking about.

And, maybe it's just me, but I find it difficult to attack too much importance to any message where the sender neglects to use their name.

Mike Feldman

[misappear]

Hey everyone,

If anyone has any spare time, could you please translate BIGGyG's post?  Although I was moved to donate because of his/her persuasive and eloquent appeal, I'm pretty lost from the diligence (or is it diligience?) part onward.  I looked at the referenced Sheldon Mayer site link, and there was a nice article with some pleasant illustrations.  Unfortunately there was no documentation or citations for any of the information provided.  And I must confess, I'm not familiar with the redundantly titled Dr. Agustine Luscano, PhD.

Thanks for any help.

                                                                        Diligently yours,

                                                                        Dave

p.s. Who is this Rich guy and exactly what's all his mysterious content?

[Aussie500]

Recently, the fellow who ran the Blackmask website was forced off and out because he claimed that the copyrights on The Shadow and Doc Savage stories had long ago expired.  Conde Nast begged to differ and their legal might prevailed.  I spoke to the Blackmask people at a pulp convention, and they were as confident in their legal position as anyone could be.

I am concerned because of pop/mass culture research work I'm doing.  If I was to include a copy of, say, some 1947 Superman story in an article about artistic or literary theory, or perhaps a cultural trend, I have no idea what I can and can't do with regard to including a print of the story with the article. 

The Conde Nast case was pretty cut and dried, unlike trademark rights which can expire if not used, copyright is active whether you print anything or not, the copyrights were all clearly renewed and freely available for checking. David Moynihan who ran Blackmask chose to ignore this, he was well aware they had renewed the copyrights, he seemed to think copyrights were not worth the paper they were recorded on and he paid for it. Conde Nast were more than generous, they warned him several times to remove their material from the site and he ignored them, in the end all they could do to was take it to court, the law was on their side, they owned the copyright.

You cannot reprint anything that is protected by copyright without the approval of the copyright owner, libraries in particular are a stickler for the rules and l have never seen one that encourages illegal copying of material, and certainly they do not do it themselves. Archives are usually original copies or fiche of material the library has in their collection

[John C]

As far as I understand it, the fellow running Blackmask even understood the law, and was trying to push up to the Supreme Court to force an abandonment clause on copyright law.

But we all knew where that would end, especially with such a shoddy case, and with Conde Nast trying to work with him.

[misappear]

I don't know... What you guys are saying about the Moynihan thing are right and true, and he probably should have made a deal with Conde Nast, if possible, for a paid download arrangement. It probably irks me more that Blackmask is gone, what with all of it's eclectic content.  I probably should have bought the discs he was offering at the time, but hindsight is what it is. 

It's funny, but when I talked with the fellows from Girasol Collectibles at a convention a couple of years ago, they had just stopped selling their Shadow facsimilie pulps on order from Conde Nast.  The irony is that other people in the room were selling the Girasol facsimilies at $80 to $100 a pop because of them being "out of print."   

Oh well, back to tomorrow's lesson plans..

Dave

[John C]

I can't help much, but in searching for replacements for Blackmask (and I still hold out hope that it'll be rebuilt somewhere less the offending material--surely he has a DVD he can use for uploading; or maybe someone with the DVD will provide the texts elsewhere), I found these as temporary holdings:

http://boysbooks.org/
http://www.silkpagoda.com/catalog/

And not from Moynihan (whose name appears to not be Moynihan, but whatever...), but may still be of some obvious interest:

http://thethunderchild.com/Books/OutofCopyright.html

And the equivalent in-Gutenberg page it links to, up top.