[vanleeweneck.charlotte]

Hi eveyone. I am working for one czech public library. We are borrowing ebooks in e-reader (only those books, whose authore are more than 70 years dead and therefore there is no copyright). Now i've found this wonderfull server. You are claiming, that all these comics are on public domain. Does it mean, that i could convert them to epub format, upload into one of our ebook reader and borrow to our reader? It would be great, but I am affraid of copyright infridgement. As i said, in czech republic all authors we would like to borrow free in our ebook reader should be more than 70 years dead, but authors of these comics are younger. Does anyone has any experinces with it? Thank you for all answers. Charlotte

[mr_goldenage]

I've downloaded just about every book on this site (except for Love/Romance & Most War books) and I have shared these with many folks overseas such as in Turkey and China (in the hopes that they would reciprocate) so I do not think it should be an issue but I am by far no expert.

Is there or better, are there any old Czech comics of the past? Can you tell us about comics or anything resembling comics or the like in your country? We would surely like to know. Thank you in advance.

Richard Boucher

[narfstar]

The US copyright was far different. You can download and use US works from here without worry from most companies represented here.

[vanleeweneck.charlotte]

about  Thank you for your reply!  So I will try it, it would be really great for readers and visitors of our library! 

About the czech comics its very difficult. As you surely know, in czech republic there was communism till 90ies of 20 century. And comics books were not supported by the governement. Allthought there are some of them - most of these comics is not about superheroes etc, but about  scouting and groups of children and their adventures - for example "Kronika Strazcu" http://www.uloz.to/x6nKgaa/kronika-strazcu-zip (I'm sure this comics is not on public domain, this link is only for educational purposes) or comics rom Mr. Folgar (just google images "Foglar komiksy" and you will see, how does it look like). There are only very few exceptions - for example about the history of czech country(husits and the 15th century) or maybe the most advanced comics about the Universe and travelling to foreighn planet ("Př

[narfstar]

We would love to have any of the government publications. We have a section here of US government pamphlets. Things do not have to be about superheroes to be cool.

[Roygbiv666]

What kind of crazy talk is that? ;-)

Things do not have to be about superheroes to be cool.

[CLANAD]

about  Thank you for your reply!  So I will try it, it would be really great for readers and visitors of our library! 

About the czech comics its very difficult. As you surely know, in czech republic there was communism till 90ies of 20 century. And comics books were not supported by the governement. Allthought there are some of them - most of these comics is not about superheroes etc, but about  scouting and groups of children and their adventures - for example "Kronika Strazcu" http://www.uloz.to/x6nKgaa/kronika-strazcu-zip (I'm sure this comics is not on public domain, this link is only for educational purposes) or comics rom Mr. Folgar (just google images "Foglar komiksy" and you will see, how does it look like). There are only very few exceptions - for example about the history of czech country(husits and the 15th century) or maybe the most advanced comics about the Universe and travelling to foreighn planet ("Př

[jimmm kelly]

In Canada, between the time that the home-grown publishers started to close down and the rise of the underground and above-ground independent publishers (sounds like I'm writing about Conan the Barbarian--know oh prince...), there was a time when a few comics publishers made their living by doing public service and industrial pamphlets and brochures. So it would be nice to find some of that material for my own research; however, I fear this is unlikely to be in the public domain, since most of it would be copyrighted by the Government of Canada.

As for international copyright during the Cold War years, I know that friends of mine making small independent films could use music from the Soviet bloc, because there were no copyright restrictions (in the West). I would guess it went the other way, too, when Soviet countries would use material from the West. I believe that during those years there were no international agreements between the two sides that would protect copyright. That has probably changed since then.

[Roygbiv666]

Can the government hold copyright? Isn't it all public?

This (obliquely) relates to something I've been frustrated by. I vaguely recall reading online that Adrian Dingle continued to hold copyright on, like, Nelvana into the 70s. I think it was a newspaper article. I can never find it, and my memory could be off - it could have been another Canadian creator/another character.

In Canada, between the time that the home-grown publishers started to close down and the rise of the underground and above-ground independent publishers (sounds like I'm writing about Conan the Barbarian--know oh prince...), there was a time when a few comics publishers made their living by doing public service and industrial pamphlets and brochures. So it would be nice to find some of that material for my own research; however, I fear this is unlikely to be in the public domain, since most of it would be copyrighted by the Government of Canada.

[jimmm kelly]

Can the government hold copyright? Isn't it all public?

I was wondering about this, and I remembered that this website on Canadian Comics history had the cover for one of these comics on its site, so I went there to check out any copyright notice, which links to the following page on the site

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/comics/027002-150-e.php?uid=027002-nlc002273&uidc=recKey

What it says there is:

Cover of For Future Generations: The National Parks of Canada, (1965). Art by Ganes Studios
Source: For future generations, the National Parks of Canada
Ottawa : Roger Duhamel, Queen's Printer, 1965. -- 16 p. : ill. -- Entire work

[jimmm kelly]

More on Nelvana: Doing a quick check in INVADERS FROM THE NORTH (by John Bell), Adrian Dingle was one of the founders of Hillborough, before he went over to Bell Features (taking Nelvana with him). So that might explain his assertion of copyright on the original Nelvana appearances. However, the cover reproduction of NELVANA OF THE NORTHERN LIGHTS, a one-shot published by Bell Features (circa 1945), is copyrighted Nelvana Limited (the animation company--used with their permission) in INVADERS FROM THE NORTH (p.63). By the way, that cover image was used by Canada Post in 1995 for their series of Canadian super-hero stamps (I have 'em all).

[narfstar]

Canada may be different but I do not think the US government can hold any copyrights because it all belongs to the people. That is why we can have PS magazine from any year.

[jimmm kelly]

Canada may be different but I do not think the US government can hold any copyrights because it all belongs to the people. That is why we can have PS magazine from any year.

It might be that because we have crown corporations in Canada, which are at arms' length from the parliament and are supposed to operate independently (though the current government is trying to intrude on that principle), they may have legal standing that allows them to hold copyright. But not being a constitutional lawyer, I wouldn't want to speculate too much about that. The crown not the people is the shareholder in these corporations (although there's an indirect relationship to the people who ultimately pay for and profit from such corporations).

[jimmm kelly]

I try to avoid getting into deep conversations on message boards about copyright, yet somehow every now and then I put my foot in it and get all turned around on this question about what is public domain and what is copyrighted.

I wonder if one of you guys can give me a simple answer about this, so I don't get in trouble anymore on other message boards.

Let's take a specific example and as Denzel Washington keeps saying in PHILADELPHIA, explain it to me like I'm a five year old.

So the example I'm submitting is JACKPOT COMICS No. 1 (Spring '41). This features several copyrighted MLJ characters like Black Hood, Steel Sterling and Mr. Justice. Yet it's in the public domain according to the CB+ site.

On other message boards, people would refute my assertion that this is public domain, by insisting that these are copyrighted characters and therefore not in the public domain.

How should I respond? Or should I respond? If this is too touchy a legal subject, then I'm willing to let it go and try harder to avoid getting into these discussions on other boards in the future. But some guidance would be appreciated.

[JVJ]

Jimmm, there are extensive discussions on this topic elsewhere on the site, but the very simplest answer is that characters are NOT copyright-able. They are trademarks. Magazines and stories in which they appear are subject to copyright rules and must be renewed to be maintained. If MLJ did not renew the copyright on JACKPOT COMICS #1, then it in the Public Domain. (|:{>

[MarkWarner]

If a character has an active trademark then you can't use it unless you have permission from the owner.

BUT if in the distant past that character made an appearance in a book or film and the copyright term of that has expired then that work is in the public domain. So you a fine with it ... but if you alter it (say add new bits about the main characters etc) then you'll be in trouble as you have created a new work and violated trademark.

My personal opinion is really not to make anything new with GA characters ... even if all looks good. I'll bet if you have a success someone will suddenly creep out the woodwork waving bits if paper. Just my opinion!

[Captain Audio]

A lot of the old publications I study were copyrighted in England before WW1, and a few more recently. I noticed that an old British catalog was in public domain but they redacted all the illustrations because the family of the artist had kept the copyright current till modern times. The man had lived a very long life and as of a few years ago his copyright protection on his artwork was still in effect.

IIRC many of Lord Dunsany's stories had not still not been printed or reprinted in the 1960's because his widow was still living at the time and refused to allow these stories to be printed.

[Roygbiv666]

Mark, that's called a derivative work, which is subject to copyright protection. Changing the character is essential to create a "new" thing that is copyrightable.

If something is truly "public domain" (Leaving aside for the moment how exactly one determiens that, etc.), you can do whatever you want with it, by definition. If you add or change enought things to make your adaption different, you have a copyrigh ton it.

For trademark, if something is PD you can grab it and use it - trademarks stand and fall on the basis of usage.

BUT if in the distant past that character made an appearance in a book or film and the copyright term of that has expired then that work is in the public domain. So you a fine with it ... but if you alter it (say add new bits about the main characters etc) then you'll be in trouble as you have created a new work and violated trademark.

[mr_goldenage]

Someone once told me back in the day (mid 90's) in the early Usenet days one of the many reasons people adpoted handles/nicknames was to become "hidden/untracable" and/or hard to get at or to because of the material they the posters were putting up on Usenet. Another tale I was told was that some of the postings were attempts to break copyrights by spreading the material around the net thus making the copyright holder defend their work, and if the copyright holder didn't defend their work after a certain period of time and if enough people reused the works it would fall into PD status (and another reason for not using ones own real name!). Now how true this is/was I don't know. Can anyone attest or denounce this practice on Usenet back then or now? I never used Usenet personally as I found it too confusing and cumbersome for someone like myself. Ciao 4 now.........

RB @ home

[jimmm kelly]

Thanks for these simplified explanations. I know that it gets more complex and that there's more in depth converations about this on other threads, but this helps me to get a better handle on it. Or rather it reminds me of what I thought I knew, but I forgot that I knew it.

I still don't think that folks on other message boards will be satisfied with my assertion that such and such a story is in the public domain. But at least I know enough that I don't have to get drawn into those debates in future.

Although it is a little like when I visited my cousins on their farm--you had to be very cautious to avoid stepping in cowpies.

[MarkWarner]

Ah!!! Roy what I was trying to show was just because a work is in the Public Domain you can't 100% safely take it and use it for whatever you want.

You CAN if none of the characters are trademarked but you CAN'T if they are. See what I was getting at?

If it is truly public domain and you leave AS IS then you have no worries. but if you start altering it then you have to make sure that none of the characters are trademarked

So in very simple terms get hold of a standard horror, romance or crime that is PD you should be safe to mess around with it. But a superhero story might lead you into trouble. I was also trying to say that if you were starting to make a buck just be aware that you might find strange claims being made. Trademarks seem a real kettle of fish and a great way for lawyers to top up their pension funds .... lol

[Roygbiv666]

Hi Mark

I think I understand what you're getting at, but I don't think you're correct.

If something is PD, then it's not under copyright or trademark. So you can do what you like with it. That's what PD means.

I guess the distinction is, since "characters" aren't specifically protected by copyright (they are a part of work they appeared in), the name or image might be trademarked if its still in use.

When the Golden Age Daredevil trademark lapsed, Marvel was able to use it - now you can't advertise your comic about the GA Daredevil using the name 'Daredevil'.

I'm not sure how the imagery (i.e. how the GAD looks) is something Marvel (or anyone) could have used and re-established a TM on it. Various companies have used the GAD in their comics and don't seem to have TM on it.

And it makes no sense to say that if a character is PD you can't change it if it's trademarked. If its trademarked, its not PD; if its PD, its not trademarked. I think. Again - can you trademark the image of the character? Not sure.

Ah!!! Roy what I was trying to show was just because a work is in the Public Domain you can't 100% safely take it and use it for whatever you want.

You CAN if none of the characters are trademarked but you CAN'T if they are. See what I was getting at?

If it is truly public domain and you leave AS IS then you have no worries. but if you start alerting it then you have to make sure that none of the characters are trademarked

So in very simple terms get hold of a standard horror, romance or crime that is PD you should be safe to mess around with it. But a superhero story might lead you into trouble. I was also trying to say that if you were starting to make a buck just be aware that you might find strange claims being made. Trademarks seem a real kettle of fish and a great way for lawyers to top up their pension funds .... lol

[MarkWarner]

Ah but you can't Roy ... say take this.

The Fleischer Superman cartoons are in the public domain (copyright was not renewed) as is at least one Superman episode (produced for the Government to promote war bonds). So you see them all over the place on DVDs and the net ... you can copy them sell them do what you want with them. BUT you can't say ... that as Superman is in them he therefore is Public Domain and start knocking out Superman films ...

That is what I am getting at, and sticking at ...lol

[Roygbiv666]

I understand and agree.

My sticking point was to me if something is PD is has no copyright OR trademark.

Ah but you can't Roy ... say take this.

The Fleischer Superman cartoons are in the public domain (copyright was not renewed) as is at least one Superman episode (produced for the Government to promote war bonds). So you see them all over the place on DVDs and the net ... you can copy them sell them do what you want with them. BUT you can't say ... that as Superman is in them he therefore is Public Domain and start knocking out Superman films ...

That is what I am getting at, and sticking at ...lol

[jimmm kelly]

My understanding of trademark is that words like superman and daredevil can't be trademarked, because they are in general use. But using Superman and Daredevil in a specific context can be trademarked. So folks are violating the trademarks on Superman and Daredevil only when they use those words in a way that is enough like the character name that's trademarked so as to create confusion in the marketplace.

Now if someone comes up with a new name for something--like Brainiac--since that word was never in general use before, it can be trademarked. But that trademark has to be defended.

I remember staring at the Superman logo back in the '60s and looking at those mystic incantations below the logo wondering what they meant:

REG U.S. PAT OFF

I later figured out that they meant the logo was registered with the U.S. patent office. Which is one of many ways that National Periodicals went about protecting their ownership of Superman and the symbols attached to him.