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DC Acquires Archie Heroes!

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topic icon Author Topic: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!  (Read 19321 times)

srca1941

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DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« on: July 26, 2008, 09:57:35 PM »

http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080726-comiccon-jms-archie.html

Also from http://www.newsarama.com/comics/080726-comiccon-dcu-guide.html:

Quote
DiDio then announced that DC had acquired the rights to the Archie superhero characters, and the characters will be "incorporated into the DC Universe in The Brave and the Bold, to be written by J. Michael Stracynzski.

"We're going to do two issues per origin, create the characters fresh in the DC Universe," said Stracynzski. "Not the Hangman's cousin third removed, but the Hangman. Bring those characters, fully-fleshed into the DC Universe."

"But we're not stopping there," said DiDio. "This is about expanding the DC Universe; making it bigger and better."

"How many people are fans of the Milestone characters?" DiDio asked.

"Well guess what? We're going to be bringing the Milestone characters into the DC Universe proper," said DiDio, mentioning characters like Icon, and saying that Static will be joining the Teen Titans.


-Eric
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 01:43:24 AM »

I wish that I cared more about this news.

I might support it, but at the moment I am one of those long term readers that DC discarded during Crapdown.

I seem to remember Phabox or Yoc making predictions about how important it is to get those scans saved now rather than later.

B.  :-\
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John C

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 01:23:23 PM »

How odd.  I wonder what the motivation (business or artistic) was for doing this.  Was another company looking to purchase the characters, and this is happening to block them out?

They're remaking the characters (again), so they're not using the established histories.  The personalities are going to change, because that's what modern writers do.  By modern artistic standards (which I happen to dislike, but they're there), the costumes aren't particularly good.  And it's not like the characters are sufficiently well-known that merely putting Fly-Man on the cover is going to generate sales.

So...what?  Are they just going to be exiled to a dark corner of the DCU to mostly team with each other, like the Fawcett, Quality, and Charlton characters are?  Will they get to twiddle their thumbs until the next universe-rending crisis needs some sacrificial lambs?  If so, that's not money well spent.  It would've been much cheaper and easier to have some intern create one-offs, or revitalize existing characters who are similar.

Milestone, I understand.  Minorities are poorly represented in the DCU, and it's easy to throw new faces like Static into the Titans to fix that.  But what do the Archie heroes bring to the table, if not their long histories?
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Lanfeust

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 01:58:11 PM »

Acquiring Milestone heroes, I understand, but Archie... (well, that explains why Reed Man couldn't publish Jack Kirby's The Fly in Strange issue 4)

Let's see... DC already have Fawcett, Quality and Charlton heroes, they also have their 52-earth multiverse - which includes Vertigo Earth and parallel incarnations of Superman, Batman & co -, and now, they have Archie's superheroes to integrate inside their mainstream universe which interacts with their multiverse. They already had too much, now they're getting more than too much.

I don't think DC needed to acquire Archie's heroes. Their mainstream universe was already hard enough to deal with, so how are they gonna deal with more superheroes on the same continuity? They could at least give them a Earth.
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BountyHunter

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 03:11:49 PM »

DC is crap.

Nuff said.  ;)

Sorry but I hate em.

(Well, except for Firestorm). 
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 06:50:56 PM »

:::whew:::  Elsewhere a few people are celebrating this development like it is the best news of the year and all my eyes can do is roll in their sockets. I am glad that some of us here are looking at the obvious downside to this deal. Look at how DC has treated their own home grown characters? Why would DC not mess up the Archie Heroes?

I decided that I am not even going to waste my money supporting this -- the books will be released in trade editions that will end up at various local libraries -- and the cheapie boxes will be bountiful at conventions.

However, does anyone know if DC actually bought the characters outright, or just has the right to long term use?

My only concern in any of this, is that the MLJ scans are safe. DC writers can turn The Shield or Capt. Flag into apologists for all I care, but as long as the old scans are safe, big deal what DC does.

B.  >:(
hostile...
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 08:21:22 PM by boox909 »
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Yoc

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2008, 10:46:55 PM »

The MLJ heroes were among my First loves in comics.
The goofy Radio Comics versions.  Especially the henpecked Web and Steel Sterling.
*Note I was 12 or something but I had the good taste to be impressed by Dick Giordano's version of The Black Hood so give me that.

Anyways part of me is excited to see them back on the stands but another part is groaning at what is almost for sure going to be a disappointment.

-Yoc
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 12:47:58 AM by Yoc »
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Aussie500

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 11:56:49 PM »

The copyrights have expired, DC cannot renew them now, so our collection is not going any where. l have a suspicion it is not so much that DC need more characters that they want to cut down on potential competition. Either that or we can look forward to DC killing of any potential with 2 billion crossovers, multiverse story arcs, and yes no doubt they will get their own earth if they manage to get used at all.

Although we might be able to host the PD comics, the PD characters that are out there for new and upcoming talent to use is rapidly shrinking. One of the reasons why we have a public domain in the first place is so that after a set period of time the copyright material will become available for the public to use. With comics it is starting to look like this will soon be an idea of the past, there will be no PD characters since even the ancient ones will be tied up with IP rights, trade mark and legal battles over ownership. l am surprised DC has not acquired the rights to the Yellow Kid yet, they could do with some decent humour titles.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 12:06:52 AM by aussie500 »
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John C

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2008, 12:26:38 AM »

DC can't retroactively claim copyright to things that've lapsed.

Sorry, let me rephrase that.  They can, but it wouldn't hold up in court without a massive change to copyright law, and Congress is too busy throwing money at mismanaged mortgage companies, this week.  They can threaten, but the proper response is "here's my proof it's public domain, where's your proof of copyright?"  Even mighty Time/Warner has to back down in the face of proper paperwork.

So no, don't go breaking the servers out of fear.  But do download the books anyway (at a leisurely pace), because they're pretty good, on the whole.  Fu Chang isn't badly written at all, as long as you don't mind cultural ignorance.  MLJ also had a lot of historical firsts, like the first legacy hero, the first flag-draped hero, and so forth.

As for my personal feelings, I don't really care what DC does with them.  The incarnations and copyrights they bought (assuming they did buy it--sounds like there's confusion on that point) are their property to dispose of as they like.  Whether they're going to make the Shield the JLA's Captain America, lock the Mighty Crusaders in the same basement as the Freedom Fighters and the L.A.W., throw them all in as guest stars, or end Final Crisis by killing them all, well, its their money and time.  And they're being treated as if they're new characters, so it's not like they're going to "break" the '60s or '80s Jaguar or Web.

I'd prefer it if they did something fun with their investment, of course, but DC and Marvel (and Image and Dark Horse and...well, you get the idea) don't appear to have been in the business of "fun" for quite a few years, now, for the most part.

I'm still really curious WHY they made the deal, though.  It just doesn't seem like good business move for them unless there's a complicated master plan to use them beyond "Stracynski thinks they're cool filler for B&B."

I'd say that the Fawcett, Charlton, and Quality purchases were all well worth the price--and Charlton might not even count, since it was bought as sort of a "birthday present" for Dick Giordano.  But for the money, DC got significant revenue from Shazam!, Watchmen, and Blackhawk (which nobody remembers now, but ran for decades).  They got even more mileage out of the Freedom Fighters, Blue Beetle, and Captain Atom (and don't forget Nightshade in Suicide Squad).

But the Archie characters?  Eh.  I don't see them raking in the big bucks.  There's probably a reason they've (almost?) never been in print for more than a few years at a time, after all, right?  So why go to the trouble of acquiring them?
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2008, 01:15:30 PM »

From what I've read elsewhere, Archie still owns their Heroes -- score!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

B.  :D

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bchat

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2008, 06:17:33 PM »

Addressing a few points from different posts:

"DC can't retroactively claim copyright to things that've lapsed."

I don't think that even crossed DC's mind and I don't understand why anyone would even think it had.  It probably has more to do with Archie giving-up on the characters and trying to make one last buck off them, and DC seeing potential there to try something new with The Shield and friends.  DC had a respectable run (not great or fantastic but "respectable") with them before with the "Impact" imprint, so maybe they're willing to give them another shot and see what happens.

"here's my proof it's public domain, where's your proof of copyright?"

Stupid question here, but how exactly do you physically prove something is Public Domain?  A renewal on a copyright?  Sure, no problem, there's physical proof of that.  But finding "proof it's Public Domain"?  Isn't that kind of impossible by the simple nature of it being Public Domain?

"the PD characters that are out there for new and upcoming talent to use is rapidly shrinking"

Not really.  The Public Domain characters are, and always will be, there for anyone to use.  The only thing that's shrinking in regards to those characters is the potential stories a creator can tell and how you can market them (for as long as the current Trademarks last).  You can still use The Black Terror, Arrow and Fighting Yank if you want, you just have to watch-out for copyright infringements and "The Trouble with Trademarks" (one of my favorite episodes of Star Trek).
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John C

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2008, 07:27:56 PM »

Proof that something has lapsed into the public domain is (mostly) a matter of showing pages in the Catalog of Copyright Entries where the work would, but does not, appear.  Surrounding years are always a good idea, too, because the Copyright Office was sometimes more lenient on the renewal period.

If a Cease and Desist order shows up, it would also be a good idea to have someone (like a copyright lawyer in the Washington area, but not necessarily) check and copy the physical Library of Congress records, in case there's a transcription error.

This isn't legal advice, by any means, but unless a company has proof of infringement at hand, any lawyer is going to back down (at least to "let's work this out amicably") when you say "it wasn't renewed in 19XX, so why do you think it's not public domain?"  It shows that, if you're in the wrong, it's not malicious and happened due to unclear records, rather than your ignorance.

(I did half-forget about !mpact, by the way, but this seems like such a different approach that I'd be surprised that the previous commercial failure would make them think of ever touching the characters again.  But if Archie still owns them, I guess that makes some sense...though integrating continuity is a little weird.)
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Palooka slim

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #12 on: July 30, 2008, 04:38:16 AM »

This is nothing new .Anybody remember impact comics? a dc imprint that published THE SHEILD THE FLY THE JAGUAR and other titles.This was in the early 90's. I dont think any of them lasted a year.
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2008, 05:01:11 AM »


This is nothing new .Anybody remember impact comics? a dc imprint that published THE SHEILD THE FLY THE JAGUAR and other titles.This was in the early 90's. I dont think any of them lasted a year.


I have a full set of the Impact version of the Shield tucked away in my bedroom -- it was actually the only book in the series that I could tolerate without yawning.

B.
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misappear

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #14 on: July 30, 2008, 06:07:47 AM »

Folks,

I put forth that, in the grand scheme, it's not the characters per se, but the quality of the writer and/or artist, and mostly the writer that makes comics, well...., good.  Pretty pictures with no purpose will catch an eye for a bit, but the writer's skill is what keeps them coming back.

What DC needs is more costumed heroes.  They just don't have enough.  After the create them, and overcreate them, and kill them off and bring them back, what they need is more characters.  Right.

I tried to read Countdown.  I had no idea who was who, what their motivations were, and I sure as hell wasn't going to read a bunch of sub-series and spin-offs.  Life's too short.  More characters, that's what they need.  Uh-huh.

Minority characters are under-represented in comics because, by and large, their books don't sell.  While people are trying to solve the riddle of the non-selling minority titles, they may want to give a little consideration to the fact that the current generation of comic readers is probably the last.  The percentage of new and young readers is apallingly low because this medium is off kid radar.  Do not lament this passing!  There are really no more pulps (those digests don't count!), no more 78 RPMs, and very little 12" vinyl.  I haven't heard a lot of new radio dramas (at least no in the US.) How about you?  Dime novels?  Popular singers who look like real people? 

Time moves forward.  We can't deal with the technology because is appears faster than we can learn to ethically cope with it. 

Enjoy what we've got here.  That "new stuff" isn't meant for us (or anyone with a brain).  We've got a "golden" opportunity to catch up on.

--Dave
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #15 on: July 30, 2008, 06:40:37 AM »


There are really no more pulps (those digests don't count!), no more 78 RPMs, and very little 12" vinyl.  I haven't heard a lot of new radio dramas (at least no in the US.) How about you?  Dime novels?  Popular singers who look like real people? 

Time moves forward.  We can't deal with the technology because is appears faster than we can learn to ethically cope with it. 

Enjoy what we've got here.  That "new stuff" isn't meant for us (or anyone with a brain).  We've got a "golden" opportunity to catch up on.

--Dave



Well said sir! I was thinking this earlier today -- I could care less about mainstream "new material" because in most cases I am actually seeing the "old material" for the very first time and therefore to me, it is new! Time is indeed passing and one day when comics have transitioned to a majority digital medium, we will chuckle and remember the "good old days, which stay new" in the treasures we are now able to obtain thanks to generous scanners and sites such as GA-UK.


Another thought crossed my mine also -- the fact that upon hearing that DC gained the rights to use the MLJ heroes, some of us spoke up in the negative. I do not think this should be lost on people and in fact, it is most telling of how DC is perceived. Where Marvel still has some gloss of excitement, Dark Horse some sense of class, Image some hint of the new; DC has earned itself a reputation for spitting on its long time readers by plying a plethora of gimmicks at such high levels in marketing their pyramid of wares, that a gallon of $4 gasoline appears not only reasonable, but of possessing more value than any single issue of 52, Crapdown, or Final Cri$i$ combined.

B.  :-\
The melodramatic
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bchat

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #16 on: July 30, 2008, 05:09:23 PM »

misapper -
"I put forth that, in the grand scheme, it's not the characters per se, but the quality of the writer and/or artist, and mostly the writer that makes comics, well...., good.  Pretty pictures with no purpose will catch an eye for a bit, but the writer's skill is what keeps them coming back."

I sort of agree with you here, except I'ld say "storytellers", not "writers' or "artists".  You need both to be good, since comics are a visual medium.  A great writer doesn't make lousy artwork look better, and a great artist can't make a weak story read better.  If either is poorly done, the comic simply isn't good.

Regarding minority heroes:  I think the problem is that many simply aren't that interesting to read about.  There are exceptions (Icon and Static), but most are created to be third-tier characters like Firebird, Living Lightning or Rage from the Avengers.  At best, minority heroes, when done in an ethnic setting as they are in most cases, are nice in small doses for a mostly white audience, but in a long-running series it doesn't work.

For example:  One of Spider-Man's greatest stories is the "drug issues" from way back when.  Can you imagine if Spidey dealt with those problems month-in, month-out?  It would get old and boring, and people would stop buying the comic because a single theme was being beaten to death.  That's the problem with most minority characters.  They are placed in a setting that's interesting for a few issues, but boring when it's month after month.

"While people are trying to solve the riddle of the non-selling minority titles, they may want to give a little consideration to the fact that the current generation of comic readers is probably the last. "

I've been hearing that line for decades, and it gets funnier each time.

"The percentage of new and young readers is apallingly low because this medium is off kid radar."

There are very simple solutions to overcome that problem, but nobody, not fans nor professionals, want to hear them because it means taking some steps backwards.  Comics can reach kids if they wanted to, but the entire industry keeps making the wrong types of changes.

"There are really no more pulps (those digests don't count!), no more 78 RPMs, and very little 12" vinyl.  I haven't heard a lot of new radio dramas (at least no in the US.) How about you?  Dime novels?  Popular singers who look like real people?"

Things change, they evolve into other things.  Entertainment is eternal.  Just because 78's and LPs are gone doesn't mean music is dead.  The Pulps may be gone but people still read fiction.  You don't hear radio dramas because people don't want to listen to them and prefer to watch tv.  And sorry to burst your bubble, but ugly people don't sell.  You never see people get excited about seeing an ugly baby, do you?

"We can't deal with the technology because is appears faster than we can learn to ethically cope with it."

I can deal with new technology with no problem.  In most cases, when something new appears, I'm thinking "it's about time".

I look forward to see what DC tries with the Archie Heroes, and I hope it's done well.  Do I expect it to sell as well as Batman, The JLA or Superman?  No, of course not, but if they have a nice run like Captain Marvel (not Mar-Vell) and Blue Beetle have had, that would be good enough.  Besides, it's not like Archie was doing anything decent with these characters anyway.  The last time I saw Archie use any of them, they were treated like jokes and that's just not worth my time to read.
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Palooka slim

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #17 on: July 30, 2008, 06:39:27 PM »

Well i no longer buy new comics but i would hate to see them die,i hope to one day see my own in print.But having said that, i cant argue that  in thier current state they dont deserve to die !the magic is gone. I once read a interview with Alex Toth in which he slams modern comics and everything he said was spot on.
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misappear

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2008, 07:20:12 PM »

bchat--

I will agree that the "storyteller" label is much more accurate.  In thinking about it, implying that artists don't contribute as much as writers would negate the work of several artists who have done strips such as Ferd'nand and Henry without words.  Also, to not acknowledge the composing style of Miller and Eisner would be a slight to the talent there.

I Think we're saying the same thing about growth and evolution, although I'm sure you'd agree that the rack after rack of manga appearing at your local bookstore is not the answer.  Speaking with comics retailers, all indications are that manga in America is rooted firmly, but will not continue to be as faddish as it is now.  I've spoken to some folks who are trying to figure out ways to liquidate some manga product.  As far as your laugh at my prediction of an end to the comics market:  I think I stated badly that the profile of the readership will change (just as the profile of music and cinema fans has changed.)  

I've been digging into the new wrinkle regarding the Phantom.  Moonstone has been publishing the character for some time.  Dynamite has announced that it has secured the rights and will also publish the character.  Gentile at Moonstone has indicated that they will continue their publication for at least two more years.

Now tell me, what kind of mess is that?  How can one develop a character?  First, King features keeps the stories under tight editorial control, and secondly, this sort of think can and will confuse the readers, or perhaps turn them off because of "dueling publishers" and competing and confusing narrative lines.  Either way, it shows a lack of a wiilingness to protect the artform from really bad commerical decisions.  (Here's where one can insert the present discussion on the merits of the Archie-owned characters to the DC multiverse orgy.)

Regarding the part of your post that addressed the minority issue in comics:  I don't believe that minority characters have to be a) written for a fictitious minority audience or that b) minority characters will not appeal long-term to the predominantly white audience.  It's a personal belief that I don't even know Iif  could justify, but I do feel it (yes, I know, real non-scientific and holistic-thinking of me.  But hey, a feeling's a feeling, no?)  The statement about second-tier status is a bit more easy to challenge in that Daredevil, for example, was a second-tier character until MacKenzie and Miller got ahold of him back around 1980.  There are others.  Bunches

It's an odd industry.  There's juvenille entertainment and escapism, adult-oriented super-hero and non super-hero titles; first-time published, real graphic novels that mingle with the series reprints.  Most importantly to me is the overbearing hand of the fanboy stamped on so much of the releases from the major publishers.  There's a true, very profound artform mixed together with disposable tripe occupyiing and competing for the same newsstand rack space.  There's a reason why ongoing conversations about the collapse of comics haven't happened as much in europe--people who read the stuff seem to be able to tell the difference immediately.  It must be part cultural and part better marketing over the years.  The glaring differences in American comics product manifests as only a subtle difference in the mind of most Americans.  

You know, it strikes me that I've been waxing philosophic all over the map, so I'll call it a day and apologize for the rambling nature of my writing.  

--Dave
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Yoc

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2008, 07:37:37 PM »

This is from Rik Offenberger, a huge fan of the Archie heroes who now works as an online PR man for Archie:
------------
MLJ at DC
    Posted by: "Rik Offenberger" rik.offenberger@gmail.com rikoffenberger
    Date: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:19 am ((PDT))

Michael,

Thanks for the post. I am here only as a fan. DC requested to license the characters from Archie. DC wants to handle their own PR. I would have been more then happy to write a press release, because after all that is my job. I only found out about the announcement hours before everyone else. Every MLJ hero was part of the license except Joe Simon's Fly and Pvt. Strong. The Archie Heroes and the Milestone Heroes will be introduced slowly and expand slowly but will be part of the DCU. There has been a lot of talk at Archie about how to reintroduce the heroes, and while things were under discussion DC made an offer that was acceptable and mutually beneficial.

Rik
-----------------

Rik runs THE BEST Archie heroes website on the net here:
http://www.mightycrusaders.net/

I find it curious that Archie hasn't made, afaik, any press release on the deal.  Odd.

-Yoc
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bchat

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2008, 02:49:15 AM »

misapear:

"although I'm sure you'd agree that the rack after rack of manga appearing at your local bookstore is not the answer ..... (and) ... will not continue to be as faddish as it is now"

I'll only say that manga, for the most part, doesn't interest me.  I do have to admit there is one exception, Rurouni Kenshin, which if I ever find all of those books together at a reasonable price, I will buy them (loved the cartoon series).  And no fad lasts forever, but obviously manga has found an audience.  Judging by how much space they take-up in regular bookstores (usually equal to if not larger than the space allotted to comics and graphic novels/tpb), I'ld say that audience was a fairly large one, too, it's just not the same group of people that read comics.  To dismiss manga simply because I don't like it as a whole is narrow-minded.

"As far as your laugh at my prediction of an end to the comics market:  I think I stated badly that the profile of the readership will change (just as the profile of music and cinema fans has changed.)"

I meant no disrespect to you, it's just that so many people for so long have declared "THE END OF COMICS" that's it's laughable at this point.  This industry needs a major shake-up, and I honestly don't see it coming from any of the current publishers as the industry currently operates (from developement to distribution).  Unfortunately, the people in charge of comics as they are now won't think in a different way and so they continue to do business as usual, meaning things won't change from within.

As to "The Phantom Fiasco", I think King Features is taking advantage of the fact that two seperate companies want to create comics based on one character.  For the regular comic shop customer, I don't think they'll get overly confused, since most people know what company (or companies, if you're like me) produces the comics they regularly read.  The casual comic buyer (the really young ones starting-out or the people that visit shops about once a year) may get a little confused if they read both books and try to figure-out how they fit together.  I would imagine though that the logos/titles will different enough that it won't be much of a problem.  Remember, too, that "The Ghost Who Walks" is a legacy, with generations of Phantoms, each one a different character than the next.  Why not capitalize on that fact by allowing Moonstone to do one version of The Phantom and Dynamite Ent to do another?  From King Features stand-point, it's good business since they make money off of two series and not just one.  To think that the two titles will be competing with each other for readership is to say that only Spider-Man, Batman and Superman can carry more than one title.  I say "let's wait and see about that".

On the "Minority Issue", maybe I wasn't clear.  I'm not saying that minority characters are, by default, second-tier characters or that fandom won't embrace them, just that, for the most part, that's how the creators and the companies treat them (remember I pointed-out Icon and Static as exceptions!).  Yes, we can both state hundreds (or at least dozens) of examples of how a second, third or fourth-rate character became the next hot thing, most of who have been your typical superhero.  I look at characters like The Falcon who has never had his own series (aside from one mini-series) because he's very "street-level" and community-oriented, and that part of his character is always written into nearly every appearance.  Not to say that characters like that stink out-loud, but it .... searching for the right phrase, I can only think of .... makes him annoying after a while, just as I would get annoyed with Captain America if all he ever did was cry about how he's a man from a different era and all his friends are old and/or dead.  It's like the writers/companies think that simply because a character is a minority that that part of their character needs to be the focus and the "superhero" aspect should take a back-seat.

That's what I see, at least.  It's why I won't read a story with Black Lightning or Luke Cage or The Black Crow or American Eagle or a ton of other minority characters because I don't want to be beat over the head with the fact that they are a minority .... I can SEE that when I look at the pictures!

By the way, I'm part American-Indian, and while I would love to read about Native-American superheroes, I haven't seen one that hasn't come across as a sterotype.  I mean, I don't go running around with feathers in my head and calling myself some variation of a bird (eagle, crow, hawk, etc), why is it that every comic company that's done a Native-American hero thinks that that's the way to go?  Why has every single character of that group of people always had a love of the land?  It's insulting!  They might as well make them own a casino and get drunk all the time while their at it.

(deep breaths ... calm down .... they'll only comics ....)

"Most importantly to me is the overbearing hand of the fanboy stamped on so much of the releases from the major publishers. "

I totally agree with you here.  I believe that part of the problem is, and has been for decades, that "The Vocal Minority" has taken the wheel and driven comics down the wrong road by constantly alienating anyone who wasn't already reading comics.  It's kind of fitting to have this conversation on a site devoted to comics that could tell a story in 8-16 pages by creators who, for the most part, treated comics like a job and were paid peanuts, yet the books themselves sold in numbers that are nearly impossible for today's comics to match.

I overheard a conversation at a comic store between the owner and an artist (nobody important except in his own mind).  The artist complained that he was only getting paid $200 per page (this was years ago, too, so I'm guessing he was a "bottom of the barrel" artist) and that simply wasn't enough for him to devote himself full-time to comics.  I'm sorry, but if I was getting paid anywhere near $4000 to draw a monthly comic, I'ld skip sleeping and eating for that kind of money!  I just kept thinking to myself "what other kind of job can you do what you love, set your own hours and make that kind of money?"  It's not like drawing what someone tells you to draw is all that hard.

Point is, the creators have put themselves before the comics they create, and the fans whole-heartedly accept it, and worst of all, encourage it.

Oops ... I rambled a little bit there, didn't I?
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Mr. Izaj

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2008, 03:47:20 AM »

 As far as DC's use of the MLJ heroes is concerned, I would love to see DC find a writer or two who has a real appreciation for these characters and their rich history and really turned them loose on these characters. In othere words someone like a James Robinson or Geoff Johns. If they do that, they would have another Starman or Justice Society of America like sucess on their hands.
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2008, 04:13:08 AM »


As far as DC's use of the MLJ heroes is concerned, I would love to see DC find a writer or two who has a real appreciation for these characters and their rich history and really turned them loose on these characters. In othere words someone like a James Robinson or Geoff Johns. If they do that, they would have another Starman or Justice Society of America like sucess on their hands.


That is such a brilliant idea that you just know the powers that be at DC would NEVER think of it.

B.
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FlyingSquid

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2008, 04:34:11 AM »

Oh good. Finally, the 21st Century will know Thunderbunny.
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boox909

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Re: DC Acquires Archie Heroes!
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2008, 05:28:49 AM »


Oh good. Finally, the 21st Century will know Thunderbunny.



I would totally be down for Thunderbunny.  ;D

B.
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