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Public Domain or Not Slider

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topic icon Author Topic: Public Domain or Not Slider  (Read 54296 times)

PeterC

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Public Domain or Not Slider
« on: January 11, 2009, 01:10:06 PM »

Hi all

I was just surfing for something completely different and found this slider to see if something is public domain or not (and if not, when the copyright will expire).  It's US, so it applies there only, but I thought you all would be interested.

http://librarycopyright.net/digitalslider/

The one I didn't know about was stuff published up to 1977 without a copyright notice...  This must be why some movies from the 60's are public domain... I wonder if it applies to many comics?

Peter
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narfstar

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 01:37:24 PM »

I think it applies mostly to Chartons that I know of. I found two of my favorite authors books available on Gutenberg. There are som Kurt Vonegut Jr and Alen E. Nourse books available there. My guess is they must not have had a copyright because I do nt think the orignals are that old.
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Yoc

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 04:41:39 PM »

Nice link, thanks Peter!
:)
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OtherEric

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2009, 05:29:19 PM »

What people have turned up as usable on Gutenburg is often fun.  Most of H. Beam Piper's works are PD, for instance, just to name on of my personal favorites.
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John C

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2009, 05:42:45 PM »

If you look down a little further, you can see that a valid copyright notice was actually required until 1989, though from 1978 on you could file an amendment of sorts.  And yes, this explains a lot of the poorly-packaged movies you find in the dollar bins around the country.

As for comics, yeah, I can confirm that Charlton had some terribly-formed notices throughout most of the 1960s.  Oddly, they did a lot right earlier on, and worked out the bugs around 1967-1968, so I can't imagine which legal eagle decided to "help," there.  I'm sure that other companies also did this incorrectly (after all, you couldn't walk two steps without tripping over an independent publisher, back in the '80s, and not many of them had any business sense), but I'm not actually aware of any.  Someone with a decent collection of indie books (and the underground books for the decade or so before that) might find it interesting to check, though.

Oh, and the Gutenberg materials are almost always based on renewals--I think the administrators find it easier than worrying about the original copyright and whether it was corrected during the limited window.  Usually (especially for the science fiction works), there's a note at the beginning or end of the text that explains where the story was found and that the copyright on that work wasn't renewed.  For example, Nourse's "Image of the Gods" has the following:  "This etext was produced from The Counterfeit Man More Science Fiction Stories by Alan E. Nourse published in 1963. Extensive research did not uncover any evidence that the U.S. copyright on this publication was renewed."

And I have to back up Eric.  Piper's work is fantastic, especially if you enjoy comic books, and it's a real shame that he ended his life.
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narfstar

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2009, 07:07:53 PM »

I invite everyone to try Nouse's work. He is in the juvenile fiction section and I started reading his books from the school library in seventh grade. Raiders From the Rings, Star Surgeon and Trouble on Titan are great reads. Juvenile section does not mean just for kids but fun for all ages without sex or foul language. I wish some modern writers could learn that lesson.
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2009, 07:54:55 AM »

You'd be surprised how many works had incorrect copyright notices! :)

There's also that other bug-a-boo - works with proper noticed but not properly registered! :)
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bakerman3

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2010, 10:32:31 PM »

By the way, I know this site has restrictions against posting Marvel or DC scans, but a lot of their early stuff has fallen into Public Domain because the stories were never renewed for a second 28 year term.

So, for example, a story published in 1940, but never renewed would fall into PD even though the character is protected by Trademark.

Their main characters probably have most, if not all, their early stories still protected, but stuff like "Vigilante" or "Zatara" are very likely in the PD.  That's why they can appear on Internet Archive without an issue.

DC typically renewed their copyrights simply by reprinting the stories, which automatically renewed them from what I understand, but a lot of those C and D-list characters didn't have a ton of reprints, and I would doubt that DC would spend the money on physically filing renewal forms for each and every comic and each and every story in those comics.

I know that this site concentrates on full issues only, but I would guess that a lot of DC titles such as the funny animal stuff that was never reprinted would have fallen into the Public Domain.

So my question is, if it can be proven that a specific DC or Marvel title is in fact in the PD, would it be ok to post it or is there a strict policy against DC and Marvel stuff even if they ARE in the PD?
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boox909

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2010, 10:36:40 PM »



So my question is, if it can be proven that a specific DC or Marvel title is in fact in the PD, would it be ok to post it or is there a strict policy against DC and Marvel stuff even if they ARE in the PD?



I would not even flirt with the issue. It simply is not worth risking the loss of the site, imho.

B.
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Astaldo711

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2010, 10:42:36 PM »

I agree with you boox. With the thousands of books here, I don't miss the few we could potentially host. No need for the risk.
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narfstar

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2010, 11:05:50 PM »

I think it better to avoid DC. There have been specific books we have found that are PD but not worth the risk.
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bchat

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2010, 12:54:12 AM »

I haven't done a lot of investigating into DC's books after they were acquired from The Major, but Action Comics alone has renewals starting with issue 1 to 127, which is as far as I care to look right now.  Since the renewals cover everything between the covers, I don't see how anyone can argue that the Vigilante stories are PD when the issues they appeared in have valid renewals.

On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the two books produced by The Major are PD.  I haven't found evidence of the original Copyrights for issues I've looked for, and haven't come across any renewals for New/More Fun Comics 1-32 & New Adventure Comics 1-27.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 01:00:41 AM by bchat »
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2010, 05:27:45 AM »



On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the two books produced by The Major are PD.  I haven't found evidence of the original Copyrights for issues I've looked for, and haven't come across any renewals for New/More Fun Comics 1-32 & New Adventure Comics 1-27.



This is something worth looking into. Would be nice to see some of this material here.

Has DC even renewed the trademark for MORE FUN COMICS?
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boox909

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2010, 06:34:34 AM »




On the other hand, it seems pretty clear that the two books produced by The Major are PD.  I haven't found evidence of the original Copyrights for issues I've looked for, and haven't come across any renewals for New/More Fun Comics 1-32 & New Adventure Comics 1-27.



This is something worth looking into. Would be nice to see some of this material here.

Has DC even renewed the trademark for MORE FUN COMICS?



Ya'll can look into it, but you'll never see it on GAC!  ::) ;D ::) ;D ::) ;D
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2010, 09:23:11 AM »



Ya'll can look into it, but you'll never see it on GAC!  ::) ;D ::) ;D ::) ;D



I can see concern if DC has an active trademark on the "Adventure" title/logo - but if those NEW/MORE FUN issues in whole - including content are  not copyrighted/trademarked,then it should be allowed. But I think that we'd have to be 100% Certain before posting any of the material. Can we even find the material! :)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2010, 09:33:21 AM by DennyWilson »
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Astaldo711

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2010, 01:07:58 PM »

I don't think we should even try. There quite a few books here in every sort of genre so missing a few is no problem. Let's explore a scenario wherein we host an old DC that is believed to be PD. Some big wig there finds out and decides he needs to protect their interest. Even if we're 100% correct they can tie this place up in litigation while they work it out. My credo is "If it 'aint broke, don't fix it."
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kosmic64

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2010, 05:56:32 PM »

I, know it's probably a very arduous and time consuming task... but how does one determine if a comic is in the public Domain???
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Ed Love

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #17 on: March 18, 2010, 08:47:25 PM »

On one hand it's very simple. With golden-age books, you simply add 27/28 to the year it was published and then check to see if it was renewed.

However, for books that had to be renewed before the 1970s, the only place that the research can really be done is at the Library of Congress in Washington DC. And, the listing for the title in question may be filed under the publisher's name, not the title. And, publishers, especially ones from the 1940s liked to file copyrights under a bunch of different names. Even Marvel did this in the 1960s. Their Daredevil comic is not copyrighted by Marvel. Most of the times there is a card telling you where to check when you look under the title name, but not always. Sometimes you can get a clue by checking the original copyright registration to see what name it was filed under. So, the truth can be that you or whoever did the proper research and could not find any notice of renewal and thus you are operating in good faith. But, it could simply be you just didn't know where to look.
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2010, 09:41:58 PM »

Actually there are on-line scans and data files for the catalog of copyright entry so one does not need to go to washington for the information of the pre-1977 information and renuals.
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Ed Love

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2010, 10:43:20 PM »

Question is, are they the complete catalog or are they second-hand research? One site that I check lists titles and the date and issue of their first renewal as well as having links to scanned entries. I've not checked them to see just how complete they are though. And, while I've not found any errors in their information, it's still relying a bit on someone else's research. If you really want to be sure and when talking about something that would fall under a company like DC who has a long history of going after the mere appearance of stepping on their copyrights they may or may not truly own, it is best to be prepared. Most of the online sources are a good place to start and get an idea. But to really be sure, nothing beats doing the research at the source.

Concerning trademarks, nothing on this site would actually violate any trademark law. If a Superman comic was public domain, it can be reprinted and distributed without violating trademark law. It's only if it was used to create a new cover, a new logo or advertising that it would start infringing on the trademarks, such as I wouldn't use a scan of the cover in a montage of books to advertise the site.
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2010, 11:46:38 PM »


Question is, are they the complete catalog or are they second-hand research? One site that I check lists titles and the date and issue of their first renewal as well as having links to scanned entries. I've not checked them to see just how complete they are though. And, while I've not found any errors in their information, it's still relying a bit on someone else's research. If you really want to be sure and when talking about something that would fall under a company like DC who has a long history of going after the mere appearance of stepping on their copyrights they may or may not truly own, it is best to be prepared. Most of the online sources are a good place to start and get an idea. But to really be sure, nothing beats doing the research at the source.

Concerning trademarks, nothing on this site would actually violate any trademark law. If a Superman comic was public domain, it can be reprinted and distributed without violating trademark law. It's only if it was used to create a new cover, a new logo or advertising that it would start infringing on the trademarks, such as I wouldn't use a scan of the cover in a montage of books to advertise the site.


There are sites that have scanned the actual volumes and posted pdfs of them. Other sites have text files created from the entries. So the scanned volumes would be the best to go with.
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Ed Love

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2010, 12:45:40 PM »

The term "volumes" would give me pause. For the most part, it's a card catalog and it takes up a couple of rooms. We're talking about easily well over a hundred thousand cards. AND, there are some bound volumes as well, which contain information regarding sales and transfers if said information is not recorded in the card catalog. Which is where I looked for a transferal of copyrights to DC from Quality as said information didn't show up in the card catalog itself (although Gaines selling his part of the company to DC was as well as Quality transferring rights to Columbia in order to make the Blackhawk serial). That's why I'm a little cautious at saying the online scans are completely exhaustive. I'd start my search with them though.

Another little warning, I don't know how the scanned pages are, but the LoC catalog had a very inconsistent alphabetizing system giving you something along the lines of:
* Air, Ralph
* Airboy
* Air Fighters
* Air filters
* Airboy
* Airconditioning
* Air Fighters
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narfstar

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2010, 12:55:13 PM »

You seem pretty knowledgeable in this area Ed. Any idea if Dell renewed anything?
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2010, 09:45:12 PM »


The term "volumes" would give me pause. For the most part, it's a card catalog and it takes up a couple of rooms.


The "Catalog of Copyright Entries" volumes are supposed to mirror the information in the card catalog.
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DennyWilson

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Re: Public Domain or Not Slider
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2010, 07:46:47 AM »

So I guess the pre-DC issues of NEW FUN/MORE FUN/NEW ADVENTURE won't be hosted here?

Or is this still up for debate?
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