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What's on your reading list?

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topic icon Author Topic: What's on your reading list?  (Read 21644 times)

Yoc

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What's on your reading list?
« on: July 08, 2009, 06:13:43 PM »

So today I see I have TWO books arriving from my library on the same day!

Supermen!: the first wave of comic-book heroes 1939-1941 
(produced with great help from our own JVJ)

and
The ten-cent plague : the great comic-book scare and how it changed America
(I hear its not always accurate but a good read)

>:(
I'll have to do some fast reading!

Anyone else doing some good reading they'd recommend?
-Yoc
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rez

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2009, 07:05:12 PM »

goldenagecomics.co.uk has some good reading and a bunch of good ol' boys that post interesting stuff on there.

Might want to give it a try.
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JVJ

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2009, 08:14:10 PM »



The ten-cent plague : the great comic-book scare and how it changed America
(I hear its not always accurate but a good read)

-Yoc

I enjoyed this one, Yoc,
but my major quibble with it was that it didn't really follow through on the promise of the Introduction. They had a great lead-in with the Janice Valleau quotes, but I felt that the book never delivered on the "what they did to us!" premise. Sure, there is a lot of info on local censorship and national posturing by politicians, but I kept looking for the more personal stories of how the artists were effected. What was delivered was more of how the INDUSTRY was impacted. Other than that, I don't recall it being all that inaccurate.

I'd be interested in your opinion when you finish it.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2009, 08:52:36 PM »

I'll let you know Jim.

Rez, hard to read the comics laying in bed which is where I like to do my reading.  HOPEFULLY one day someone will invent a colour eInk book with a larger screen for me.  :)
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Powder Solvang

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2009, 01:20:46 AM »

It's the time of year I like to unwind after work by running and then I kick back in the hammock with Gatorade and a book or hardcover reprint edition.
I have several volumes of the Chester Gould Dick Tracy strip reprints I've been neglecting so this week I've started on volume one of that. Good way to chill out.
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misappear

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 02:40:41 AM »

I liked The 10-cent Plague for putting the events leading up to the adoption of the comics code, and the susequent fall-out in a chronological order.  I'm not enough of a historian to judge if there were any inaccuracies in the text, but the book overall agreed with my general understanding of the period and events.  I don't subscribe to the philosophy that there is an exact and definitive history of anything, as two people viewing any event will have a different interpretation of some aspect.  I would, however, recommend the book highly for its arrangement of the data alone.

I have a favorite magazine which I would have folks consider:  Alter Ego.  I find it an in-depth and on target publication dealing with comics, especially golden age material.  The magazine's tone displays a certain reverence for the creators from the 40's and 50's without being a sappy fan magazine like The Buyer's Guide or Wizard, which insult the intelligence.  The neat thing is that Alter Ego has none of the overly pretentious and arrogant qualities of The Comics Journal (is that thing still in print?  The local comics outlets don't carry it.)

Image's Comic Book Tattoo was a nice anthology, but the Chip Kidd's Batman Manga was a disappointment, as the stories he reprinted were not complete, and therefore didn't provide a method to judge plot pacing. 

--Dave
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narfstar

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2009, 02:59:18 AM »

Alter Ego is great. Every issue has a must read and stuff I want to read but don't seem to get to. The High Camp section covers my oddball SA addction
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 06:14:47 AM »

Hey, thanks for chiming in guys!
I agree AlterEgo is the best ongoing magazine for our hobby.  Narf, please feel free to send you cast offs my way!
I'm on a budget so I have to be picky about which issues I get.  :)

I'm still looking forward to Supermen!: the first wave of comic-book heroes because I know it's mostly reprints and Jim here has had an influence on the contents.

10 Cent Plague might be more educational but reading the actual stories has an attraction all its own.

-Yoc
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darkmark

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2009, 07:53:06 AM »

I keep after Jim Steranko to get down and write the third book in his History of Comics series.  At least that would cover the rest of the Golden Age.  And he keeps saying he will...BUT...! ;-)  Maybe he'll get to it eventually, though.
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phabox

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2009, 09:13:25 AM »

Of course when Jim S wrote those two volumes of his series many of the original creators were still around for interview purposes.

Sadly today this is not so much the case and as more time goes by their will be even less of these 'Golden Age Greats' left to offer their insights  :(


-Nigel
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 01:03:04 PM by phabox »
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darkmark

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2009, 12:52:44 PM »

He did a lot of interviews that still haven't been published, and a lot of the stuff that pertained to comics that weren't covered were held back for future volumes, I'll bet.
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2009, 04:42:43 PM »

Good luck getting Jim S motivated there DM.
I too would love to see a third volume.
:)
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OtherEric

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2009, 06:23:08 PM »

I would love to see more of the Steranko History.

For that matter, I would love to see Steranko draw another comic book.  It's hard to think of another artist who had so much influence for doing so few books- other than covers, he did less than 40 comics!
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darkmark

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2009, 07:48:38 PM »

Well, Jim's had negotiations or offers to do other comics over the years...The Shadow and Nick Fury come to mind...but nothing's ever come of it.  He did do the Outland adaptation, the Superman thing, and that Chandler gn.  Guess we'll have to be satisfied with what we've got.
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kquattro

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Re: The Ten-Cent Plague
« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2009, 04:02:21 PM »

...I felt that the book never delivered on the "what they did to us!" premise. Sure, there is a lot of info on local censorship and national posturing by politicians, but I kept looking for the more personal stories of how the artists were effected. What was delivered was more of how the INDUSTRY was impacted. Other than that, I don't recall it being all that inaccurate.


I haven't been online for a few days, so I haven't been following this thread, but I'd like to chime in on THE TEN-CENT PLAGUE.

I feel it's well-written and Hajdu tells a good story, but I also feel he played a bit fast and loose with some of his "facts".

The tip-off for me was his Appendix with his list of "...artists, writers, and others who never again worked in comics after the purge of the 1950s...". A quick glance revealed a few who shouldn't have been there and a longer look revealed how flawed his list really was.

Some were creators who stopped working in comics before the 1950s even began. Among them were: Harry Lampert, Lillian Chestney, Joe Doolin, Charles Flanders and Fred Schwab.

Some were folks who either never worked in comic books at all or who had a very tenuous connection to begin with such as: Russell Keaton, Leslie Charteris, Henry Kuttner, Syd Hoff, Ernie Kovacs, Joan & Len Maurer, Peter Driben, Jim Holdaway and William Ekgren (who's only connection to comics were 3 of his paintings were bought by St. John and used as covers unbeknown to him).

Several creators had the misfortune of dying in the 1950s, thus ending their careers, like: Joe Maneely, Charles Quinlan  and Archer St. John.

Others left comic books for careers in advertising, comic strips, teaching or "slick" magazines like Jack Cole, Vernon Greene, Cal Massey and Al Hollingsworth. One name on the list, "Ezra Whiteman", was a pseudonym for the team of Maurice Whitman and Ezra Jackson, both who continued working in comics through the Fifties. Other folks kept working in comics past the "purge" of the early to mid-Fifties, such as: Bill Ward, Alfonso Greene and Al Eadeh. Some had only drawn for comic books as a sideline, like: Art Bartsch, Jim Tyer, Lavern Harding, Robert and Chuck McKimson--all animators who were only moonlighting as comic artists and never considered it their primary job in the first place.

This is just skimming the surface. There are more I can see and even more I'm not aware of (Jim V could probably add a few). The point is that his list supposedly names folks who had been chased from comic books by the censorship "purge", and obviously, this wasn't necessarily true. This list is one of Hajdu's most damning "facts" and often quoted by reviewers of the book. At best, it was sloppy research on his part and at worst, it was a deliberate attempt to support his arguments with skewed "facts".

(There are other instances within his book where he takes quotes out of context and inflates details to support his theme. While this is uncomfortably shady, it's not uncommon and doesn't bother me as much as his list)

I think there is a good book to be written about censorship and comic books and much of the material is in Hajdu's book. I just believe he did himself (and the reader) a disservice by fudging the facts.

--Ken Q
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 05:28:48 PM by kquattro »
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #15 on: July 11, 2009, 06:56:18 PM »

Hi Ken,
Yep, that list of his has a few comic historians upset.  And Hajdu mentioned it on his Colbert Report appearance as well.  Thankfully he spent longer on the truth talking about the comic burnings and attempted bannings.

-Yoc
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kquattro

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Re: The Ten-Cent Plague
« Reply #16 on: July 11, 2009, 08:30:21 PM »

Yep, that list of his has a few comic historians upset.  And Hajdu mentioned it on his Colbert Report appearance as well.  Thankfully he spent longer on the truth talking about the comic burnings and attempted bannings.


I didn't see Hajdu's appearance on Colbert, but from what I understand from others who have seen him on television, he seems not to be a "comic book guy" so much as a person who became interested in the subject and approached it as an "outsider". I can't speak to that since I didn't see him personally, but it may explain his selective use of information.

And referring back to Jim V's earlier post on the book:
Quote
...I kept looking for the more personal stories of how the artists were effected. What was delivered was more of how the INDUSTRY was impacted.

I think the reason for this is that the public outcry and censorship attempts were directed at the industry as a whole and not at the individual artist. While Wertham, et al., angered comic creators, I doubt many suffered personal attacks other than the general lack of respect that comic artists had been accorded since the medium had begun. Most who left comics (for whatever reasons) found work elsewhere, whether in advertising, teaching or a field totally unrelated to comics. In other words, their lives went on. Just like anybody else who leaves a job.

An unromantic conclusion, but likely the case more often than not.

--Ken Q
« Last Edit: July 11, 2009, 08:32:57 PM by kquattro »
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JVJ

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Re: The Ten-Cent Plague
« Reply #17 on: July 11, 2009, 11:08:51 PM »


And referring back to Jim V's earlier post on the book:
Quote
...I kept looking for the more personal stories of how the artists were effected. What was delivered was more of how the INDUSTRY was impacted.

I think the reason for this is that the public outcry and censorship attempts were directed at the industry as a whole and not at the individual artist. While Wertham, et al., angered comic creators, I doubt many suffered personal attacks other than the general lack of respect that comic artists had been accorded since the medium had begun. Most who left comics (for whatever reasons) found work elsewhere, whether in advertising, teaching or a field totally unrelated to comics. In other words, their lives went on. Just like anybody else who leaves a job.

An unromantic conclusion, but likely the case more often than not.

--Ken Q

Oh, I understand all that, Ken,
it's just that the introduction/foreword hinted at a more personal approach that I would have found extremely interesting. I didn't go into the book with those expectations. Hadju set them up in me and then failed to deliver. Read Valleau's plaintive and emotional screed and you'll see what I mean. She certainly made me THINK that she had suffered some personal attack.

And you're dead right with the list. I glanced at it when I finished the book, but never looked closely at it. In fact, when I got to the end of the final chapter, the first thing I did was go back and reread the intro to see if I had missed something. It felt like I had. However, I took the book to Paris and read it the week I was down with a cold. And I left it there, so I've never revisited it.

Peace, Jim (|:{>
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rez

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #18 on: July 12, 2009, 12:12:53 AM »

Link to the Hadju video:

http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/173311/june-11-2008/david-hajdu

bought to you as a service of Goldenagecomic.co.uk

8) Send comments and support care of this station
« Last Edit: July 12, 2009, 12:14:37 AM by rez »
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DOC

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2009, 12:55:58 AM »


I keep after Jim Steranko to get down and write the third book in his History of Comics series.  At least that would cover the rest of the Golden Age.  And he keeps saying he will...BUT...! ;-)  Maybe he'll get to it eventually, though.


In the meantime, I started looking at these two collections:




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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2009, 04:52:55 AM »

Cool, never seen that Spacehawk collection before!

Well, I started to read 10 Cent Plague and I can completely understand Jim's complaint after reading the introduction and Valleau's sad story.  That she's never mentioned again is frankly criminal and a good editor or writer should have caught the mistake and demanded something, somewhere to complete her story!  It's almost put me off reading the rest!

On a bit of the same subject of the death of comics in the 50s - like everyone here I've heard the usual suspects mentioned (Wertham, CCA, TV, etc) but I've also heard the cost of newsprint went through the roof around the time of the implosion.  It would be great to know what the cost was for paper before and during.  It might explain a lot.

-Yoc
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #21 on: July 27, 2009, 06:27:55 AM »

Hi gang,
Finished reading both books this past few days.

Supermen!: the first wave of comic-book heroes 1939-1941
is like a 'best of' book which members of GAC could produce their own multiple times over.
I did enjoy the stories selected and the background info in the back of the book for each had a couple of surprises.
The book wasn't overly bright or recoloured like an archive so it looked nice.
It's a quick read I'd recommend especially if you library system had it.
I could see this as a series of themed books with little problem.

and
The ten-cent plague : the great comic-book scare and how it changed America
Jim was right about wanting to know more about Janice Valleau Winklemen.  We DO hear tiny bits from her in a  couple of spots later on.  One hinting Busy Arnold enjoyed the complany of the pretty ladies in the office and later on pg328 tells of leaving comics to concentrate on her family.  The story of taking an art class and being criticized for drawing like a comic book was ironic and sad.
I'd be very interested in seeing the early 'TV broadcast magazine' show called 'Confidential File' which featured Estes Kefauver and raked comics over the coals so bad was broadcast Oct. 9, 1945.  Photos from the show appear in the lacklustre picture section of the book which look outrageous.  For a book on comics I was surprised how few photos were used.  Pictures were described in minute detail but never reproduced - ie the Arnold/Valleau nightclub photo and Christmas Parties at EC.
The book certainly played up the hysteria of the time and the amazing number of laws passed in a LOT of the States against the publishers.  It pretty much concludes most of the publishers we love here were killed by the witch hunt on comics.  More personal stories on living through and after wards would have been very welcome.  The last chapter writes on a half dozen.  I'd have loved to read more and perhaps see some photos of them.

I think Roy Thomas and AlterEgo should be chasing Janice Valleau Winklemen for an interview.




Next on my reading list -
Tales to astonish : Jack Kirby, Stan Lee, and the American comic book revolution
By: Ro, Ronin. 2004

and later

Love on the racks : a history of American romance comics
By: Nolan, Michelle

Opinions anyone?



« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 06:36:49 AM by Yoc »
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Ed Love

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #22 on: July 27, 2009, 02:58:23 PM »

I liked the reprints in the Supermen book and the notes in the back putting each story in context... but, I thought the foreward was just a waste of space and the story choices were odd and not really well thought out as far as giving a good cross-section. Major companies were completely left out, too many stories featuring extremely minor characters instead of spotlighting the best or the most representative of a company or genre. As a reprint book, it's pretty cool. But, it doesn't scratch the surface of providing a really good overview of the comics, characters, and creators of the time. If you're going to have Will Everett how do you not do Amazing Man, one of the most influential characters from the time? The Comet but not the Shield, Bob Phantom or even a Fujitani Hangman? With two books by the same company devoted solely to Fletcher Hanks, I feel he could have been left out completely to make room for others. How do you ignore all of the patriotic heroes, the vast majority of whom debuted BEFORE Dec 7, 1941? The text page says the War changed things, but that gives short shrift to the fact that so many of the comic heroes were fighting WWII before America got involved, albeit that most were fighting analogues of Germany and Hitler.

As a whole, I think Bill Black does a better job at selecting varied stories on a regular basis in his reprint books even though he can only cram about 4 in each one.
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rez

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #23 on: July 27, 2009, 03:02:22 PM »

Looks like some good reading...
Quote:
"For the better part of three decades romance comics were an American institution. Nearly 6,000 romance comics were published between 1947 and 1977, and there was a time when one of every five comics sold in the U.S. was a romance comic.

"This is the first book devoted entirely to the rarely studied world of romance comics. The text includes information on several types of romance comics and their creators, plus the history, numbers, and publishing frequency of dozens of romance titles. The author examines several significant periods in the development of the romance genre, including the origins of Archie Comics and other teen romance publications, the romance comic
« Last Edit: July 27, 2009, 03:05:32 PM by rez »
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Yoc

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Re: What's on your reading list?
« Reply #24 on: July 27, 2009, 09:15:40 PM »

Hi Ed,
Jim had a hand in helping find stories for Supermen!: the first wave of comic-book heroes.
The collection went to great lengths to use Only PD material but as you say leaving out Amazing Man, Iron Skull and the Shark was a shame but we also know a Centaur only book is in the works so perhaps that had something to do with it?  But then a second Fletcher Hanks is due out as well so you're right, thought fun his stories could have been left out.  But we also know the first Hanks book sold Very Well so it would make more sense for sales to include him.
I bet a lot of time was spent trying to figure out the stories.  Finding them, getting good scans, etc.
I look forward to a second volume if it happens.  Perhaps it will be Patriotic Heroes as mentioned.  You could fill an entire book of just those!

-Yoc
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