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Week 196 - Boy Comics 32

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topic icon Author Topic: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32  (Read 5084 times)

movielover

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Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« on: May 20, 2019, 07:42:36 PM »

Since people were mentioning that they were missing the reading group, I figured I'd give it a go at running it.

The first selection from me is a new scan from titansfan with editing by David Miles, Boy Comics 32, he https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73694

I selected the first story, Trouble Is Cheap!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 02:42:35 AM »

Did the printed comic really start off with three ad pages before the first story???

Trouble Is Cheap! - For a publisher known for their crime stories the crime parts of the story didn't seem that well written. The premise was okay, but I think it was the dialogue and the rushed feeling to get from point A to point B to point C, etc., that let it down.

Young Robinhood - Okay.

Two one panel cartoons - Okay.

Little Dynamite - Not bad, although I doubt acting drunk in court would go over very well.

I wonder how good that folding boomerang was?

Second Crimebuster story - So is the guy driving the Maurer Trucking truck Norman Maurer?  ;) While I couldn't fault the intent of the moral, I seriously doubt education would have prevented Lank from turning to crime he just would have been a smarter criminal. (Yeah, that's a message you want to send.)

So Peaceful In The Country - Okay.

Swoop Storm - Cute. Fun little bit o'fluff. Of course, why have a motor row oars when an outboard could just push the boat along?  ;)
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crashryan

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 04:24:59 AM »

Thanks to Movielover for reviving the reading group!

In general I like Biro's comics from this period. Biro's moralizing approach was better suited to Boy Comics than it was to the crime magazines. The stories there opened with a preachy caption, glorified crime and violence for a number of pages, and only switched back to moralizing in the last panel.

The Crimebuster stories in this issue are like Crime Does Not Pay Lite. CB doesn't really have much to do with the plots. The second story strains to give him a part; it's really the story of the teacher and his no-good pupil.

"Trouble is Cheap" works for me. It reminds me of the 50s film noir features where a basically decent fellow makes a series of bad mistakes and winds up screwed. Maurer's cartoony art is okay for most of the tale, but the scenes of Hendricks beating himself look funny rather than dramatic.

Nice Barry art on "Young Robin Hood," but the story zips by way too fast.

"Little Dynamite" also moves too fast. It needed more setup to sell the idea of corrupting a witness with drunk pills. Especially silly is the scene where the femme fatale urges our hero to take his vitamins before entering the courtroom. If the woman had any sense, she would have suspected a trap when the guy agreed to take them instead of laughing in her face.

The second CB story is a respectable Biro boys-go-wrong story. it would have benefited if Crimebuster had been cut out altogether, but then this wouldn't be a Crimebuster story, would it? Did they execute minors in 1947? Lank spends only six months in juvie; he can't be more than sixteen when he breaks out and goes on his rampage.

I saw the ending coming a mile away in "Swoop Storm," but it's okay.

When I see these ads for How to Get Along with Girls I wonder where all the copies are today. Surely someone has scanned one and posted it to some blog. Have any of you ever seen a copy? I want to read it and learn how to have "Personality." Not personality, mind you, but "Personality" with quotes and a capital P and that rhymes with T and that spells Trouble...
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crashryan

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 04:48:31 AM »

About How to Get Along with Girls. Silly me; I was still thinking 20th-century thoughts. When I googled the book I came up with countless entrepreneurs who scanned the book so they could sell you a scan for five bucks (or more, or less). One guy posted the text from one chapter. It is a checklist of matters to think about when you're considering marrying your gal. It's mostly reasonable advice with an occasional dash of 1944 sexism. Here's the blog post:

https://www.artofmanliness.com/articles/dating-advice-from-1944-how-to-pick-your-right-girl/

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lyons

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 05:37:47 AM »

A good read by Charles Biro - editor - writer - artist, and arguably the finest blend of talent the 1940s produced.  Under Biro's guidance, and Gleason's vigilance for quality - Boy, Daredevil and Crime Does Not Pay became the 3 best selling comic titles of the late '40s and early '50s, topping a market saturated with 400+ competitors.  Thanks for choosing this book.  Thumbs up to movielover for reviving the Reading Group.           
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 08:14:31 AM »

Great to see this back again. Nice choice too.
Cover > confusing. Are the two guys with axes trying to stop the log or are they trying to stop the hero?
If the River is flowing, the log probably wouldn't hit the people on the floating log anyway.
'Trouble is cheap' > Nice work from Norman Maurer. Good solid story. the only thing that is out of place is the superhero and the monkey. They are really quite superfluous to the story.
Young Robinhood and His Band > Dan Barry's work was excellent, even back then. Story? Same deal. We get a straight crime story only with Guys in costume instead of regular detectives.
In fact that's true for most of the stories in this collection. The impression given is that Charles Biro knew he needed superhero comics but had no idea what kind of stories to write for them. Or even if they should stand out by having super powers. And CrimeBusters costume, how could you take him seriously? Especiallajy when accompaied by a monkey?  Which begs the question, Why would you buy this and not something else on the stands?
That said, I quite like 'The Helicopter Boat'  by the Hubbells. It's different enough from the rest to stand out.
movielover, thanks for starting this again. Hope it's around for a while.       

 
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Captain Audio

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2019, 04:54:34 AM »

"Trouble is Cheap" reminds me of an HBO "Tales From The Crypt" episode. Just needed the Crypt Keeper cackling in the background.
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2019, 11:17:08 AM »


In fact that's true for most of the stories in this collection. The impression given is that Charles Biro knew he needed superhero comics but had no idea what kind of stories to write for them. Or even if they should stand out by having super powers. And CrimeBusters costume, how could you take him seriously? Especiallajy when accompaied by a monkey?  Which begs the question, Why would you buy this and not something else on the stands?


Crimebuster isn't so much a superhero as he is a BOY hero, so he follows in the tradition of earlier boy heroes. Apparently Biro felt that a D.I.Y. homemade costume adapted from a hockey uniform was a more realistic approach for a boy hero. And Biro (as has been noted in many stories told about him) actually did have a pet monkey which was his constant companion, even as he sat at his drawing board. Biro & Wood didn't produce a LOT of titles for Lev Gleason, but as lyons previously noted, Boy Comics, along with Daredevil and Crime Does Not Pay, were three of the best-selling comics of the late 1940s, so they must have been doing something right that appealed to readers.
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paw broon

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2019, 04:43:48 PM »

I didn't know CB's costume was adapted from a hockey uniform.  It just looks a bit duff to me.  It's odd because I'm a fan of costumed heroes but CB doesn't do it for me.  Like some of the others, I feel CB isn't really needed in the stories.  In fact these tales would have been better introduced by a Mysterious Traveler type.
The 2 CB stories didn't impress me and I didn't find them particularly enjoyable, made worse by that stupid monkey. 
The high point of the book for me is the Dan Barry Young Robinhood story.  While not a great story, the art looks good.
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2019, 01:48:38 PM »


I didn't know CB's costume was adapted from a hockey uniform.  It just looks a bit duff to me.  It's odd because I'm a fan of costumed heroes but CB doesn't do it for me.  Like some of the others, I feel CB isn't really needed in the stories.  In fact these tales would have been better introduced by a Mysterious Traveler type.
The 2 CB stories didn't impress me and I didn't find them particularly enjoyable, made worse by that stupid monkey.


I guess you have to consider these things in the context of the time when they were being published. It's not so much that "they knew they needed superheroes"... although that may have been true a few years earlier when Boy Comics first started out. In the post-war comic marketplace, most publishers were feeling their way trying to figure out what was the right formula to appeal to readers, and one thing that seemed clear was that the popularity of superhero comics was waning (many of them had already been discontinued by 1947).

Chuck Chandler's origin story as Crimebuster in issue No. 3 (actually the first issue) showed that he was in the middle of a hockey game when he overhears the news that his father had been shot and killed; he doesn't take the time to stop and change before rushing off to find the culprits.

You may not like the monkey, but it wasn't that uncommon (there were other heroes with pet monkeys). The Biro & Wood comics always had more of a 'cartoony' aspect to them than some other publishers (although less so for Crime Does Not Pay).

Crimebuster, Daredevil, and Crime Does Not Pay were all very story-driven comics. There's an awful lot of dialogue -- or some would say "a lot of awful dialogue" -- compared to most other comics of the time, and I think that's what was attracting the readership that they had (character-driven stories). Crimebuster played up the ongoing battle between the hero and his personal nemesis (Iron Jaw) in the same way Daredevil and The Claw as arch-enemies had been a running plotline in Lev Gleason's earlier comics. Personally, I hate the fact that the Little Wise Guys slowly usurped Daredevil's role as the star of his own comic -- but what can you do? -- those were the times, and superheroes did not have the same exalted position in terms of reader desirability as they later obtained. The post-war Daredevil and Crimebuster stories were very atypical of superhero comics for that time, and in some ways they don't really even fit in that genre.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2019, 01:54:06 PM by positronic1 »
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narfstar

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2019, 10:34:03 AM »

I do not like powerless superheroes in general, and kids even more so. CB never made any sense to me as a superhero. A Kid in a hockey uniform is relied upon to do all the work of the police. It was nice and unusual to have such a long build up to the first murder. The story was not bad but could have been better in CRIME DOES NOT PAY. CB was pointless. I enjoy the little intros that make the stories seem more personal and real.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 10:39:18 AM by narfstar »
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2019, 03:28:01 PM »

In some ways I agree with you, narfstar. On the one hand though, I love those old Dead End Kids (and East Side Kids) movies, but not the post-war Bowery Boys (buncha grown men acting like idjits, ifn ya ast me). Yet I love S&K's Newsboy Legion, and even the Young Allies, the first woulda-coulda-shoulda been S&K kid gang comic. On the other hand, I have no love at all for the Boy Commandos (or the Little Wise Guys, either) -- yet they were the most popular of ALL of the kid gangs, one of DC's best sellers for years, inspiring a dozen knock-off kid gangs from other publishers to compete for a slice of that pie. IMO, the BCs came off as just a limp also-ran knock-off of the Newsboy Legion (which was much closer to the original Dead End Kids inspiration). The only one of the Boy Commandos that had any personality was Brooklyn, and the rest were hollow Euro-stereotypes (a more washed-out, whittled-down version of the Blackhawks). Plus, just the idea that the US government would somehow sanction the idea of sending a bunch of kids into a warzone always irked me for some reason (yet AIRBOY never bothered me, so go figure). One of the things I liked about Airboy was that he seemed a little more real, somehow (despite sometimes sharing stories with such weirdies as Misery, the Rats, and the Heap). Personally I don't lump Crimebuster in with the superheroes so much, even the kid ones like Robin or the various other sidekicks like Bucky, Dusty, or Roy the Super-Boy. Somehow I put Crimebuster more into the same category as the Newsboy Legion or Airboy, as having a slightly more down-to-earth or grounded approach to stories (again, despite sharing stories with such weirdos as Iron Jaw, the villain readers just loved to hate). It seems like it has a lot less to do with costumes or lack thereof to me, than it does with the approach to the way those characters were written.

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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2019, 05:39:17 PM »

Thinking about the powerless, self-made, DIY-costumed, street-level crime fighters made me realize that you can sort of look at Lev Gleason's Crimebuster as the precursor of a few other characters. There's DC's Wild Dog, who also made a DIY costume out of a sports jersey and hockey mask, and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles' ally Casey Jones, who wears a hockey mask and even uses a hockey stick or baseball bat as a weapon. And hey, didn't the golden age Green Lantern foe The Sportsmaster do the same, but as a villain?

That reminds me of Bob Burden's Mysterymen, a bunch of un-powered blue collar-type crime fighters. The Shoveler! Hell, why not... Thor's got a hammer, and he's got a shovel. Whatever works! Heck, the Flaming Carrot's only claim to a costume was a giant carrot-head mask and swim-fins instead of shoes -- he just wore a normal shirt and pants. Now we're harkening back to the pulp-style heroes like the original Sandman, Crimson Avenger, Green Hornet, The Spider, or The Shadow -- no powers to speak of, and barely a costume (by superhero longjohn standards, anyway). They operate in universes that are slightly less  fantastical then those of the full-blown superpowered long-underwear types, but I'm really quite partial to that approach.

Speaking of superhero costumes, that's exactly where modern superhero movies completely turn me off. Forget all the other unbelievable stuff going on, who's going to believe that a high-school kid like Peter Parker could make something like those movie costumes using Aunt May's sewing machine in his bedroom? Maybe Bruce Wayne and Tony Stark are millionaires, so I guess I can let those costumes slide... but all the other superheroes, no way.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 05:47:48 PM by positronic1 »
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lyons

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2019, 05:45:53 PM »

Superhero comics flourished during the war.  GIs found them to be a great way to kill time at the base or aboard ship.  Captain Marvel was selling 2,000,000 copies per issue during the war - Superman, Batman and Captain America were selling 1,000,000 copies per issue.  But when the war ended, the superhero market collapsed.  Readers turned to teen friendly books like Archie - or to adventure-crime publications like Boy or Crime Does Not Pay for their entertainment.  It wasn't until 1947 that romance comics - known as the 'Love Glut' - became popular.       
« Last Edit: May 26, 2019, 06:42:54 PM by lyons »
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2019, 05:58:18 PM »

Yup, not only did the publishers lose their captive audience of young enlisted men, but during the entire time the U.S. was involved in WWII, the birth rate went down. When the G.I.s returned home, married their sweethearts, and began pioneering suburbia, they were quick to make up for lost time, resulting in the baby boom. But those kids wouldn't be old enough to really impact comic book sales until the mid-1950s. So from the end of the war until around the time of the CCA, the average age of the comic book reader continued to go up. And they were sick of "kid stuff" superheroes -- they wanted crime dramas, war stories, romance, and horror. And good "girl art". The mass culture at large wouldn't accept the idea of comics tailored to older readers, because up to that point, they'd always been traditionally 'for kids'.
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lyons

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #15 on: May 26, 2019, 11:05:43 PM »

The collapse of the superhero market following the surrender of Japan was also influenced by a war-weary public who was sick of fighting, even in fantasy settings. 
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crashryan

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2019, 03:22:07 AM »

Positronic1: Even as a kid I wondered where characters got their costumes. That's why I enjoyed the Silver Age Flash story in which we learned that Central City's super-villains patronize a tailor who specializes in super-suits.
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paw broon

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2019, 08:28:16 AM »

I was thinking about Positronic's mention of heroes with monkey companions and I realised that, for me, the only monkey in comics that counted was Beppo. And he led on to The Legion of Super Pets.  So daft it's good.
As for costumed mystery men as opposed to superpowered characters, I love those pulp and early comicbook heroes with just an adapted everyday look.  I always thought Sandman looked menacing with the suit and gas mask.
There are a couple of other characters that have powers but no costume other than their normal day clothes and we have them on CB+.  TNT Tom is just a schoolboy in short trousers with powers given to him by visiting aliens.  He helps folk in trouble and fights crime but always manages to stay out of sight.  Captain Atlas is Honeywell, a rather weak, ordinary wee bloke working for a detective agency, until he takes one of Prof. Potter's power pills which give him powers for 24 hours.  The pill changes him into a big bulky superstrong, fast version of his other self but his clothes stay the same but seem to grow with him. Another, so daft it's good, strip.
Lyons comments that,
"The collapse of the superhero market following the surrender of Japan was also influenced by a war-weary public who was sick of fighting, even in fantasy settings. "
But in the UK, we continued to have superhero comics, admittedly, they were only part of a huge range of genres but still significant.  The war comic and war strip in the anthologies became more and more important.
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crashryan

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2019, 11:14:04 PM »

I have a soft spot for non-costumed super-powered characters. There aren't many...Brain Boy and the non-costumed Dr Solar are favorites. There's something appealing about the heroes having to use their powers in secret. On the other hand I fondly remember an old Superman story in which Supes goes back to the 1920s, before anybody had heard of superheroes, and publicly becomes a "super G-Man" while wearing his Clark Kent suit.

Paw, when it comes to daft monkeys the one that did it for me was Detective Chimp.
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narfstar

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #19 on: May 30, 2019, 12:29:47 PM »

I don't care for powerless heroes or most costumeless heroes with powers. One I do like is Rick Richards. I remember the first time I read one of his stories and thought how cool and different. He has an adrenal gland that gets activated by loud noises. He appeared in Blue Bolt.
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2019, 05:47:55 AM »

How do you define "superpowers"? That's a good question. If you really think about it, guys like Green Lantern and Iron Man don't have any superpowers. What they have is high-tech weaponry that just makes it seem like they have superpowers. Take away those weapons and they're powerless.

And of course, even after World War II, while superheroes continued to dwindle in popularity, they never really went away completely. DC characters like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Green Arrow had an unbroken string of published adventures from their beginnings in the Golden Age through the beginning of the Silver Age. While no other publishers could claim that kind of regularity, superheroes continued to pop up after WWII and before the Silver Age all over the place -- mostly minor characters like Captain Flash, the Black Cobra, or Nature Boy. It's only when we look at them statistically, in relation to the vastly increased number of titles published after WWII (when paper rationing ceased to be a concern, most publishers took advantage and expanded their number of titles in order to compete for rack space) that you can see they became a far less significant part of the overall comic marketplace. But even during the war, when the anthology comic book was the rule rather than the exception, there were a range of anthologies -- some mostly superheroes, some partly superheroes, and some no superheroes at all. For example, Fiction House, a major publisher for the entire decade of the 1940s, never produced a significant superhero character at all. After the war, comics became increasingly specialized in genre, and there were fewer anthology titles with each drop in page count to maintain the 10-cent cover price.

Other media was important in helping a character maintain popularity in the comic book marketplace, with Superman having a long-running radio series and a newspaper comic strip which continued to run long after most other superheroes had ceased publication in the wake of WWII. Similarly, having a long-running radio series and newspaper comic strip was important to the longevity of Archie Andrews, helping to familiarize the non-comic book reading public with the character. Even during the lowest point for superheroes, the 1950s, Superman was the first comic book character to have his own television series -- that was enormously important to the character's longevity and eventually led to spinoff series for Jimmy Olsen and Lois Lane. When Martin Goodman decided to try reviving Captain America, the Human Torch, and Sub-Mariner in 1953, it was because of The Adventures of Superman TV series. Although they sold poorly and were quickly cancelled, the Sub-Mariner's revived title managed to last a year longer than the others -- that's because a TV producer expressed interest in the character, although ultimately the series never made it to a pilot. Think about what an incredible difference it would have made to the history of comic books (especially superhero comic books) if instead of The Adventures of Superman, there had been an Adventures of Captain Marvel TV series. In all likelihood, a TV show would have buoyed the popularity and sales of the comic books, Fawcett would have had the incentive to never throw in the towel and settle out-of-court in their legal battle against DC, and there would never have been a British MARVELMAN comic... the mind boggles.

Before this gets TOO off-topic, let me just mention that Crimebuster is making a comeback, appearing in Exciting Comics #3 from Antarctic Press. Not sure what "Crimebuster 76" indicates, but possibly this is a revival of the character set in 1976? Nice tip of the hat to Charlie Biro with the logo.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:32:24 AM by positronic1 »
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paw broon

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2019, 09:22:41 AM »

"How do you define "superpowers"? That's a good question".  positronic1
Yes it is!  I'm sure some of us got involved in this very question a while ago.  Always good to have opinions on this.  I am a fan of non-powered Masked Mystery Men as well as super powered heroes and heroines.
As positronic also writes, "they never really went away completely.", I'd again mention that in British and European comics, there were MMM and superheroes all through that period. And even without Marvelman & Family, there would have been a good sized tranche of heroes in the wide mix of genres available in newsagents. In the UK we had weekly anthology titles, and comicbooks, usually colour cover with b&w interiors which appeared monthly or irregularly and were designed to look like American comics at a time when we did not have access to American comics. Many different genres were displayed in them.
I remember my excitement watching for the first time the Superman tv show, and I'm sure positronic is right noting how important it was to the character's longevity.
It's also important to bear in mind that The Phantom continued an unbroken run from his first appearance right through to today. While he was a newspaper strip character, his adventures were also available in the comicbooks, and his comics were available in many countries.  I wonder if the movie serial helped The Ghost Who Walks longevity.  Or the cartoons?
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2019, 09:52:06 PM »


It's also important to bear in mind that The Phantom continued an unbroken run from his first appearance right through to today. While he was a newspaper strip character, his adventures were also available in the comicbooks, and his comics were available in many countries.  I wonder if the movie serial helped The Ghost Who Walks longevity.  Or the cartoons?


I've often thought of this odd (to ME) phenomenon of U.S. characters exported overseas that became more popular (in the long run, after they hit their peak in America in the 1930s & 40s) abroad than at home. That's almost entirely due to the long reach of William Randolph Hearst's King Features Syndicate, whose long arms reached out worldwide prior to WWII to introduce characters like The Phantom, Mandrake the Magician, Flash Gordon, Jungle Jim, Secret Agent X-9 and Prince Valiant to the rest of the world. Other U. S. newspaper syndicates' popular comic strip characters, like Little Orphan Annie, Dick Tracy, Buck Rogers, Alley Oop, and others well-known to American readers never quite had the same kind of market penetration world-wide. The sole exceptions seem to be the Disney characters (also syndicated to newspapers through King Features -- although certainly the animated films being distributed overseas was the major factor), and Tarzan (which wasn't handled by KFS -- but the newspaper strip was so different to the otherwise popular Johnny Weismuller films). The rest of the world is what has kept the KFS adventure heroes running as long as they did, not American readers, and Europe embraced the classic Disney characters in comic book form when they were all but dead in the U.S. Ditto for Tarzan.

During the war, some of the countries that had enjoyed reading the King Features strips (many in translation) before the war could not get them, and suffered withdrawal until after the war when the strips were restored. They say absence makes the heart grow fonder, and some of those strips became even more popular in other countries after the war -- and as the decades rolled on, maintained their popularity overseas better than they did in America. Undoubtedly some of the latter-day media adaptations (the Flash Gordon, Defenders of the Earth, Phantom 2040 and Prince Valiant animated cartoons come immediately to mind, as well as the Flash Gordon and Phantom feature films) did better overseas than they did in America, as well.

It's weird, isn't it? The Phantom is a world-wide phenomenon, more popular collectively elsewhere than in his country of origin. And it's all almost entirely credited to Lee Falk (and artists like Ray Moore and Sy Barry), not to the Phantom appearing in other media -- because in most other media he was a relative flop, or to be kind, not a major hit, anyway. Personally, I loved the Phantom movie (with a few caveats) from the 1990s with Billy Zane (who would have been perfectly cast as almost any superhero)... but it didn't do all that well in America. The Phantom and The Rocketeer were my two favorite films adapting comic heroes (and The Rocketeer kind of flopped over here, too). Those and the first two Hellboy films. It's just me, I guess -- none of the comic-to-film adaptations I actually LIKE did all that huge box-office over here. Not much of a fan of most of the Marvel or DC film franchises, to be honest. (I did like Watchmen though -- oh, that didn't do all that great box-office either). I guess in retrospect, the first couple of Superman films (with Christopher Reeve) and Batman films (with Michael Keaton) look a lot better by comparison to the newer crop 21st century superhero films. Actually, I DID like Deadpool (not a huge fan of the comic, although of course I'd read it beforehand), simply because of its humorous approach -- and that was kind of a big hit... not AVENGERS big, but nonetheless.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 09:56:37 PM by positronic1 »
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crashryan

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2019, 12:51:10 AM »

When talking about American strips that were hits overseas one mustn't forget Lyman Young's Tim Tyler's Luck. It was huge in pre-war Europe--most notably Italy--and was reprinted under several titles. In Italy it was best known as Cino e Franco. Apparently kids of the time loved it. For decades postwar Italian fan publishers would always start by reprinting a run of Cino e Franco. As the original readers died off, its fame faded. I don't think many modern Italian fans know much about it.

Though it ran thirty-some years, in the US Tim Tyler's Luck seems never to have been more than a "B" (or a "C"?) strip. I never could get into it. In the early 30s Alex Raymond ghosted a couple of sequences.They looked better than Young's stuff but Raymond was just learning. Flash Gordon it wasn't. I don't know why Tyler was so big overseas. One author speculated that the strip, which was set in a Foreign Legion-like outpost in the jungle, appealed to prewar Italy's colonial ambitions.
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positronic1

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Re: Week 196 - Boy Comics 32
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2019, 05:05:20 AM »


When talking about American strips that were hits overseas one mustn't forget Lyman Young's Tim Tyler's Luck. It was huge in pre-war Europe--most notably Italy--and was reprinted under several titles. In Italy it was best known as Cino e Franco. Apparently kids of the time loved it. For decades postwar Italian fan publishers would always start by reprinting a run of Cino e Franco. As the original readers died off, its fame faded. I don't think many modern Italian fans know much about it.


On the contrary, that's a factoid that in retrospect seems completely forgettable. Unless you can point to Lyman Young's art style as a direct influence on a younger generation of European cartoonists, or that the content of Tim Tyler's Luck (in other words, the characters and the story tropes) were influencing later characters and strips. In other words, show me how and why the popularity of TTL in Europe was important and influential in some way.

I specifically mention Flash Gordon and Tarzan because of the huge artistic influence Alex Raymond and Hal Foster (and later Burne Hogarth) had on cartoonists that followed. One can list dozens of later artists influenced by them. One can also list dozens of characters that were influenced by these earlier creations, as well as ones like the Phantom and Mandrake. That goes for both American comic books, as well as other cartoonists and characters world-wide. The point is how influential those strips were in terms of the evolution of both comic storytelling styles and character archetypes in the history of comics worldwide. Characters like Tarzan and Buck Rogers came straight from the pulp fiction magazines, and were innovative in ways that didn't exist before. Others like the Phantom, Mandrake and Flash Gordon were directly influenced by various types of pulp heroes, and became models for later American (and other countries') superheroes.

I could have mentioned that cartoonists and characters like Chic Young's Blondie, E.C. Segar's Popeye, and George McManus's Bringing Up Father were very big in Japan, and influenced the style of a number of early manga artists, but it just didn't seem that relevant. Maybe I just don't know enough about Tim Tyler's Luck, or Lyman Young, or about European cartoonists, and if I did I'd know something like (hypothetically) it was a huge influence on Herge and Tintin. You'd have to explain that to me if it was the case, but I was sort of assuming that people here would recognize the KFS characters I mentioned as proto-superheroes without which the first generation of original American comic book heroes (as well as a lot of super-type characters in comics worldwide) would be quite different. I'm just not seeing where Tim Tyler's Luck was important and influential in some big way.
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