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BD

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topic icon Author Topic: BD  (Read 998 times)

Andrew999

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BD
« on: January 06, 2021, 09:44:42 AM »

Best-selling BD in 2020 was Riad Sattouf's L'arabe de Futur 5 - the fifth instalment of the ironic story of a young man's journey through the strife-torn Middle East 1992-94.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arab_of_the_Future

Great fun - but also important, if you know what I mean - stretching the boundaries of what sequential art can mean.

Sales of volume 5 in 2020 reached 4.63m Euros
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Andrew999

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Re: BD
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2021, 10:10:37 AM »

The incredible team of Lemaire & Neuray have published in one volume the remarkable true story of the Cambridge Five:

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.casterman.com/Bande-dessinee/Catalogue/albums-les-cinq-de-cambridge/les-cinq-de-cambridge-integrale&prev=search&pto=aue

Hopefully, those wonderful people at Eurocomics will produce an English-language version soon.

During most of the cold war, MI6 was penetrated by a team of Cambridge-educated moles who fed a constant stream of data to the KGB. How did Russia develop the nuclear bomb within months, build a supersonic jet, beat the Americans into space? Easy - let the Americans/British spend all the cash on research and development and then cherry-pick the results.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Five

Be sure to read the authors' Hitler's Cossacks too - these guys know their stuff.
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Robb_K

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Re: BD
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2021, 06:46:43 PM »

For what does BD stand?
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paw broon

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Re: BD
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2021, 07:37:46 PM »

It stands for:-
Bandes dessin?es    literally, drawn strips, I suppose.

The term used in France Belgium Quebec and other Francophone countries for comics, graphic novels.
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Robb_K

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Re: BD
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2021, 10:51:18 PM »


It stands for:-
Bandes dessin?es    literally, drawn strips, I suppose.

The term used in France Belgium Quebec and other Francophone countries for comics, graphic novels.

Thanks.  I had 4 years of French in school, but didn't know their term for "sequential art stories".  We don't even have an equivalent term in English or Dutch for combining graphic novels, comic books, comic strips, and other sequential art into a publishing category.
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Andrew999

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Re: BD
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2021, 08:25:26 AM »

My Dutch is very poor - but I wonder if stripboek comes close?
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paw broon

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Re: BD
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2021, 09:14:50 AM »

Aye , the Dutch use stripboek(en) .  In the past and perhaps still, they had beeldverhaall and stripverhaal.  I'll have look later on a couple of sites just to check I'm not havering.
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Robb_K

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Re: BD
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2021, 07:13:26 PM »


My Dutch is very poor - but I wonder if stripboek comes close?


Stripboek means "comic book".  So, no.  It doesn't come any closer than the English "comic book" to encompassing ALL narrated and/or dialogued sequential art, like  "Bandes dessin?es" does.
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paw broon

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Re: BD
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2021, 01:58:31 PM »

While bowing to your superior knowledge of Dutch 8), I don't think you are quite right here.  The lines between categories are blurred.  A comic; a comic book (a phrase I never heard when young in Scotland.); comic strip; trade paperback; graphic novel.  We all know that Maus or The Killing Joke are graphic novels. There they are, complete in themselves. So what about the GN which is a part of a longer series?  Continued in fact from the previous GN.  De Rode Ridder is a very long series of comics.  Or is it a series of short graphic novels?  Most issues complete in themselves.  Or Lucky Luke.  Perhaps a series of comics in what looks like a gn format.
Despite my poor knowledge of Dutch - I can read basic descriptions or at least get a gist of what's meant - I have visited The Netherlands many times and one of my great pleasures when there is visiting as many comic shops, stripwinkels, as I can. And I'm aware from chatting to comic shop owners that they interchange terminologies.  In fact, if you go to online stripwinkels, you will find graphic novels; trade paperbacks described as strips.
Some comic shops describe themselves as a "Stripboekhandel" and offer everything from floppies to hb graphic novels, often incl in between, lilliputs/piccolinos; ancient beeldverhaal; newspaper strip reprints in various formats.
I'm sure you will pick my arguments apart but you were very forceful in your post but didn't give an alternative.   ;)
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Robb_K

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Re: BD
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2021, 05:43:01 PM »


While bowing to your superior knowledge of Dutch 8), I don't think you are quite right here.  The lines between categories are blurred.  A comic; a comic book (a phrase I never heard when young in Scotland.); comic strip; trade paperback; graphic novel.  We all know that Maus or The Killing Joke are graphic novels. There they are, complete in themselves. So what about the GN which is a part of a longer series?  Continued in fact from the previous GN.  De Rode Ridder is a very long series of comics.  Or is it a series of short graphic novels?  Most issues complete in themselves.  Or Lucky Luke.  Perhaps a series of comics in what looks like a gn format.
Despite my poor knowledge of Dutch - I can read basic descriptions or at least get a gist of what's meant - I have visited The Netherlands many times and one of my great pleasures when there is visiting as many comic shops, stripwinkels, as I can. And I'm aware from chatting to comic shop owners that they interchange terminologies.  In fact, if you go to online stripwinkels, you will find graphic novels; trade paperbacks described as strips.
Some comic shops describe themselves as a "Stripboekhandel" and offer everything from floppies to hb graphic novels, often incl in between, lilliputs/piccolinos; ancient beeldverhaal; newspaper strip reprints in various formats.
I'm sure you will pick my arguments apart but you were very forceful in your post but didn't give an alternative.   ;)


I think this is just semantics.  I don't disagree, at all, about what you just wrote.  That is all true.  But, I think "Stripboeken" doesn't include some forms of sequential story art that English describes as "storied sequential art", but altogether is equivalent to BD.  In other words, the word "Comics" in English is a wider term than comic books, and "Strips" in Dutch, is a wider term than "Stripboeken" (but in recent years has also been used as a synonym for that word), just as in English, "comics" has often been used as a synonym for "comic books". 

But THAT fact doesn't make that usage "correct", because it is illogical, and takes meaning away, forcing the reader or listener to depend upon context to understand the reference, when sometimes the context doesn't exist, so the reference becomes ambiguous.  This is a pet peeve of mine with those people (now most of The World) who argue that languages are "living entities, and "grammar and spelling "errors" become "correct" once changes are used by half the population speaking them, regardless if they are illogical, and remove utility by making speech and writing more ambiguous and/or less understandable.

Logic tells me that BD is the widest term, with the wider definitions of the Dutch "strips" and English "comics" being second widest, and the wider definition of "stripboeken" next, and then the narrower version of "stripboeken" after that, and the English "comic books" the narrowest.  The widest term in English seems to be "narrated sequential art", for which BD, although not meaning exactly that, is the closest to equivalent.  The problem is that some of these terms have two meanings - one wider, and one narrower.

In other words, I'm a tight-assed old fogie, who believes that when you leave your comic books on the floor, and your parents want you to remove them, they should be described as "comic books" or "stripboeken", and NOT as "comics" or "strips", because that could possibly be confusing.  And I believe that one should not say, "I could care less" when he or she means "I COULDN'T care less!" Those two situations are different, but they both take away utility for understanding from the language, and so, can lead to misunderstandings, which can lead to problems.  Languages were developed from a need to communicate.  Communication is hurt by having less understanding.

I agree with you 100% that the terms (categories) are blurred.  And of course the name of a shop is not going to contain a reference to EVERY type of printed material it has contained at one time or another!  Or maybe a "printed Material Shop" WOULD  be best!  ;D  "Joop's Printed Material Shoppe".  "Captain Marvel's Narrated and Dialogued Sequential Art Emporium"   ;D

What I meant was that The French seem to use a wider, more encompassing term than The English and Dutch for their familiar term, and I'm jealous that we don't also have a less wordy, more commonly-used, wider term.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2021, 06:19:04 AM by Robb_K »
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Andrew999

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Re: BD
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2021, 09:06:58 AM »

Fascinating - thank you.

My mother always used the phrase 'picture stories' to cover everything - but as far as I'm aware never actually read one herself!
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paw broon

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Re: BD
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2021, 10:24:03 AM »

Interesting point Robb and Andrew.  Thinking about this, Italian uses the term Fumetti.  It's a great catch all, don't you think?  The problem with the term fumetti, is that it refers to the word balloons, so what happens with text strips, Prince Valiant etc?
What surprises me is that no-one, myself included, has pointed out that graphic novels, never mind how we define them, are listed under "albums" in French, Dutch and many Spanish comic shops.
Going back to the names I heard as a young person in Scotland, my uncle always referred to comics as comic cuts, I assume after the British comic of the same name. At that time there was no such thing as a graphic novel.
As for graphic novels, despite my earlier assertion that Killing Joke was a GN, is it really? Or is is it simply a longer, i.e. more pages, comic. And many graphic novels are not original stories, but are reprints of material that appeared in comics or magazines.  Some of the most celebrated G.N. are continued from one book to the next, famous in this category, Blake and Mortimer.
This subject interests me but might bore others. :-[  However more opinions would be good ;D
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The Australian Panther

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Re: BD
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2021, 12:55:06 PM »

To me, a true Graphic Novel is something that is complete, not an episode and is written for that format, not a reprint.
A reprint, to me, is an album. Or an Archive.   
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Andrew999

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Re: BD
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2021, 07:57:11 AM »

This looks an interesting new series:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRZu5nt2oCY

https://www.lemagducine.fr/a-lire/bd-mangas/sideshow-critique-bd-10040715/

Charly has the ability to neutralise a vampire's power by his mere presence - but there are plenty of other monsters out there on his tail. In the first volume, he is escorting a lamia to jail when he decides to hide out in a Freaks-style sideshow. There's one more thing, the lamia is a shape-shifter and likes to appear as a little girl.

The series is set in a forties vibe but that's only the beginning of the many cultural references. Worth a shot when the English translation emerges in a couple of months.
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