in house dollar bill thumbnail
 Total: 43,545 books
 New: 86 books




small login logo

Please enter your details to login and enjoy all the fun of the fair!

Not a member? Join us here. Everything is FREE and ALWAYS will be.

Forgotten your login details? No problem, you can get your password back here.

Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM

Pages: [1] 2

topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM  (Read 2035 times)

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« on: April 30, 2021, 03:48:47 PM »

I've been working on a massive Edgar Allan Poe comics blog project for 6-1/2 years now.  Some of the items are more "illustrated stories" than comics.  This is one of them.

As this book was published in France in 1948, my guess is it's one of the rarest such Poe items out there, and as far as I know, has never been published in English, or in color.  Until now!

This is (so far) the earliest of 7 different comics adaptations I've found of Poe's only novel, the insanely-unfinished "Arthur Gordon Pym".  It's so big, I spread it out over 6 blog pages, each one connected in sequence to the others with links.  ENJOY!

https://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2020/07/poe-1948-pt-2.html
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 03:58:53 PM by profh0011 »
ip icon Logged

The Australian Panther

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2021, 12:54:52 AM »

Thanks Prof!
As you all may have noted, I like to throw the Reading group open to guest posters.
I thought I'd ask the Prof and he has obliged with a humdinger of a book!
The Prof has his own thread on CB+ which can be found here.
Professor H's Wayback Machine
https://comicbookplus.com/forum/index.php?topic=5983.msg81266#msg81266.
Whenever the Prof adds a new find to his blog, he posts a link there.
I have found it very educational - go back and read some of the early non-Poe posts, if you haven't already, you'll be glad you did.
I have nothing but admiration for the work he has been doing, tracking down, finding, fixing and posting Poe obscurities. Has had me take another look at Poe and his work.
Poe's influence on the principles of story-writing and on the detective story I have been aware of for many years now, and more storytellers should be aware of them.
Prof has been a bit early with this post, but hey, 'The early bird catches .....'
You can still read and post comments on the previous choice and for all the earlier choices if you wish to.
On with the show!     
ip icon Logged

SuperScrounge

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 03:44:30 AM »

Lamotte's art reminds me a little of Gahan Wilson.

More of an illustrated story rather than a comic story. Also Poe's having the story being a guy describing what happened to him distanced me from the story rather than pulling me in.

Poe's cliffhanger was odd. Did he just run out of ideas or was he hoping that people would be so interested that publishers would pay him a lot of money to write a sequel? Mentioning that they were unable to contact Peters does seem like the author saying to the reader, "If you want a sequel..."
ip icon Logged

paw broon

  • Administrator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 10:57:32 AM »

Yes Scrounge, this is more like an illustrated story. Actually it's also like a classic text strip but the writing seems to move it away from that towards the illustrated story.
I'd heard of Bernard Lamotte.  He was a well known artist and had collaborated with Sainte Exupery, but the art on this tale looks so different.  Have a look:-
https://www.vosegalleries.com/artists/bernard-lamotte
Is this the same bloke? 
Another great piece of work Prof.
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 04:48:20 PM »

This book being in the project at all is a story in itself...



"At one of the Facebook groups I frequent, fan Yan Nick posted an ad for this book, which turned out to be from a French edition of VAMPIRELLA.  I've seen so many POE-related books, often it's difficult to know what their contents are.  Comics?  Text stories with a couple of illustrations?  "Illustrated stories", where it's a mix of about 50% of each?  Sometimes I don't find out until after I've bought the book-- but this was too expensive to risk the money until I knew for sure.  The answer came, surprisingly at the Todocoleccion selling site in Spain.  Someone had posted several INTERIOR pages... and when I saw them, my jaw dropped.  This book qualified as what I'd call a "Children's Book"-- the art took up 95% of the pages, with just a little text squeezed in!  I KNEW I had to get a copy.  Unfortunately, the one on sale at Todocoleccion had already been sold, some time before I ever found out it existed.

Since it was a French book, the next best bet seemed Rakuten-- formerly Price Minister.  This site had often been confusing, but I had managed to successfully buy several books from there over the previous couple of years.

I put in for a copy, and waited.  And waited.  I waited far longer than is normally called for, before finally putting in for a refund.  I have NO idea what happened to the book.  Did it somehow get lost in the French postal system?  After all, that entire country is under a state of chaos, with nation-wide strikes and the like going on.  Or could it have been STOLEN off my porch?  I'd had 2 mail-orders RIPPED open in the previous year... but in both cases, the item was left behind.  I wound up getting myself a Post Office Box for the first time ever, in order to eliminate the chances of this happening again.

Worry about the chaos in France made me want to avoid going after anything else from there for the time being.  Instead, I found another copy-- for substantially MORE money-- from a book-seller in Switzerland, who was listed on Abe Books.  It arrived safely at my P.O. Box in 8 DAYS!!!

I was BLOWN away when I saw the book.  It's a 9-1/2" x 12-1/2" paperback-- of a kind I have never seen before.   The pages are still VERY white after 45 YEARS.  I anticipate very little work on cleaning up the interiors (which will be a nice change from some of those Taika stories in Brazil).  This is now quite probably the single most expensive book I've ever bought (so far), but I feel it was worth it.

This is my very 1st book from Switzerland, and although the book itself was created & published in France, due to the circumstances (described above), I keep referring to it as "the Swiss book".

https://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2020/01/poe-1968-pt-31.html






Having gone to so much trouble and effort, one day I did a bit more...

https://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2020/07/poe-1948-pt-2.html

I ran across this book on 11-6-2019 while browsing the entire online catalog of the La Bergerie bookstore in Switzerland.

Now I have to admit, I wasn't crazy about the art style in this book.  But there is a LOT of it.  Which made it, in my eyes, essential.

The problem, as of 3-7-2020, was that this would have been the single most expensive book I would ever have bought... and I'm kinda strapped for cash.

But then... incredibly... just 3 days later (3-10-2020), Canadian fan Richard Gagnon pointed me at a seller on Amazon France, who had the book for HALF what the store in Switzerland was selling it for (that includes the shipping).  HALF!!!  So suddenly, I didn't have to wait to buy it.  I did wind up having to call my bank, as, for the 3rd time in 2 years, a transaction with France somehow set off their security alert, but next thing, I received word the book had shipped... and I got my hands on it on 3-27-2020.  Just 3 days later, I started processing it.  WOW!!!

The artist is "Lamotte".  I knew nothing about him.  But, a quick online search found an artist named Bernard Lamotte, who lived in France from 1903-1983, and was a painter and an illustrator.  I have not confirmed it's the same person, but, I have to wonder, what are the odds on there being 2 artists in the same country with the same last name and general time period?  Bernard did wonderfully beautiful color paintings, and while it's difficult to be sure, the figures in the paintings could be the work of the same person.

Incidentally, the moment I laid eyes on page 10 (the 2nd story page), I instantly fell in love with the delightfully "cartoony" drawing style, and suddenly, couldn't wait to clean up the pages and add COLOR!




You never know where an online search (or series of them) might take you!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2021, 04:52:12 PM by profh0011 »
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2021, 05:49:23 AM »


I've been working on a massive Edgar Allan Poe comics blog project for 6-1/2 years now.  Some of the items are more "illustrated stories" than comics.  This is one of them.

I spread it out over 6 blog pages, each one connected in sequence to the others with links.  ENJOY!

https://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2020/07/poe-1948-pt-2.html


The Adventures of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket

This is certainly the style of an illustrated children's book, rather than a comic book, having so many illustrations, but having no dialogue balloons, sound effects, and the like, that only comic books and comic strips have.  I agree that LaMotte's drawing style on the cover is very like that of Gahan Wilson.  But, the art style on the inside pages is quite different; and to me, a very modern children's book style.

Pym's story in this first chapter (of seven) is quite interesting and suspenseful.  And its ending leaves a lot of interesting questions unanswered.  I can't wait to read and view the second chapter.  We've seen Pym as a fairly innocent youth and young man.  I can imagine him being a lot less innocent by the last chapter.  We're getting a nice flavour of the seamen's life in New England in the early 19th Century.

A very interesting read.  I think it would make a great Classics Illustrated issue, drawn by traditional comic book adventure comic artists, mixing in dialogue in key scenes, to get the feeling of really living in the action, as opposed to just hearing about it (as an ALL-narrative storytelling seems).

I like the artwork in The Gold Bug much more than that of Arthur Gordon Pym.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 05:55:12 AM by Robb_K »
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2021, 06:16:56 PM »

Gilberton's CLASSICs ILLUSTRATED never did it, but, Societe Parisienne d'Edition did for their MONDIAL AVENTURES series.  Due to a delay in publishing, Editora Brasil America Limitada published their ALBUM GIGANTE edition (translated into Portuguese) before the French version came out.  Someone found really fuzzy scans of THAT on a fan blog in Brazil, and I colored and translated THAT into English, using the original novel as reference.  I actually read the entire novel, one piece at a time, WHILE doing my translation of the comic.  (Yes, it does get crazy confusing, don't it?   ;D )

http://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2015/11/poe-1959-pt-1.html
« Last Edit: May 05, 2021, 06:19:17 PM by profh0011 »
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2021, 06:27:20 AM »


Gilberton's CLASSICs ILLUSTRATED never did it, but, Societe Parisienne d'Edition did for their MONDIAL AVENTURES series.  Due to a delay in publishing, Editora Brasil America Limitada published their ALBUM GIGANTE edition (translated into Portuguese) before the French version came out.  Someone found really fuzzy scans of THAT on a fan blog in Brazil, and I colored and translated THAT into English, using the original novel as reference.  I actually read the entire novel, one piece at a time, WHILE doing my translation of the comic.  (Yes, it does get crazy confusing, don't it?   ;D )

http://professorhswaybackmachine.blogspot.com/2015/11/poe-1959-pt-1.html

Very nice artwork, which I like much better than the modernistic style of our review book, and I like the blending of dialogue with narrative better than narrative alone.  The art style is similar to many "Classics Illustrated stories.
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2021, 04:46:15 PM »


Very nice artwork, which I like much better than the modernistic style of our review book, and I like the blending of dialogue with narrative better than narrative alone.  The art style is similar to many "Classics Illustrated stories.


The whole project is set up chronologically, but, at the bottom of each page, I try to include links to EVERY other version of any given story that I have posted.  Where I can find them, I also like posting links to audio versions (especially if it's Vincent Price or Basil Rathbone doing the readings), or radio shows.  SUSPENSE, for example, did 4 different episodes based on "The Pit and the Pendulum", using the identical script, with 4 different sets of actors.

I've also got a Mexican version of "Arthur Gordon Pym" from the early 60s set up, but I have NO idea who the writer or artist are.
ip icon Logged

gregjh

message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2021, 03:11:27 PM »

I am a great admirer of Poe's work. His gothic and morbid themes don't really translate to colorful comics in my humble opinion although that certainly doesn't mean I can't applaud and appreciate the effort that goes in to these projects. If I were going to attempt such a project - which I wouldn't, because I have the artistic ability of a slug - I would use a Gotham City type colour scheme.
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2021, 10:17:38 PM »

Cleaning up scans can be a chore, but coloring I'm having tons of fun with.  Here's one from Italy I was proud of.  The opening pages I went for "dreary", but the climax, something else!



ip icon Logged

crashryan

  • VIP & JVJ Project Member
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2021, 10:02:14 PM »

Finally getting around to this Reading Group entry.

I confess I just don't get this. Everyone has stylistic preferences, some stronger than others, and I realize that my own preference for "realistic" drawing limits my ability to appreciate unusual art styles. This one is too far out of my box, I guess.

The drawings are (to me) crude and childish. I could accept even crude work if it appears the artist tried his best, but that's not what I see here. It's almost impossible to tell the characters apart, and even in this super-simplistic style Lamotte cuts endless corners, hiding faces, drawing feet instead of figures, and overusing silhouettes. Only once does he really try do draw a ship, and it's not a pretty sight. Most of the time he eliminates backgrounds or reduces them to a few random strokes that contribute nothing to the atmosphere of mystery and dread Poe seems to be seeking.

Seeing that ProfH says the coloring is his own work, I presume that in their original appearance Lamotte's drawings were in black and white, which would look even worse.

I'm afraid that my distaste for the book will be interpreted as a slight upon ProfH. Believe me, it's not. The Professor's goal is to collect every Poe graphic adaptation out there, a monumental task. There will always be those who find meat where I find poison. So I applaud the Prof's efforts while conceding that this particular one did nothing for me.
ip icon Logged
Comic Book Plus In-House Image

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2021, 10:53:01 PM »


Finally getting around to this Reading Group entry.

I confess I just don't get this. Everyone has stylistic preferences, some stronger than others, and I realize that my own preference for "realistic" drawing limits my ability to appreciate unusual art styles. This one is too far out of my box, I guess.

The drawings are (to me) crude and childish. I could accept even crude work if it appears the artist tried his best, but that's not what I see here. It's almost impossible to tell the characters apart, and even in this super-simplistic style Lamotte cuts endless corners, hiding faces, drawing feet instead of figures, and overusing silhouettes. Only once does he really try do draw a ship, and it's not a pretty sight. Most of the time he eliminates backgrounds or reduces them to a few random strokes that contribute nothing to the atmosphere of mystery and dread Poe seems to be seeking.

Seeing that ProfH says the coloring is his own work, I presume that in their original appearance Lamotte's drawings were in black and white, which would look even worse.

I'm afraid that my distaste for the book will be interpreted as a slight upon ProfH. Believe me, it's not. The Professor's goal is to collect every Poe graphic adaptation out there, a monumental task. There will always be those who find meat where I find poison. So I applaud the Prof's efforts while conceding that this particular one did nothing for me.


Same for me!  Which is why I stated above, that I thought this was drawn in the style of a young children's story book, and I'd wished there had been a Classics Illustrated-style version of this Poe story issued, and why The French Avontures Mondial version fits my taste much better.  I wouldn't hire Gahan Wilson to draw my favourite classic i9th Century terror/suspense tale, just as I wouldn't hire Robert Crumb to draw Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge (as Don Rosa did), just as I wouldn't hire Milt Gross to draw The Jackie Robinson Story in his Wackiest/Zaniest cartoony style.
ip icon Logged

crashryan

  • VIP & JVJ Project Member
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2021, 11:41:34 PM »

ROBERT CRUMB drew Donald and Uncle Scrooge??! This I have to see. I did an image search for "Uncle Scrooge by Robert Crumb" and got only pictures of Scrooge or pictures  by Crumb.
ip icon Logged

Captain Audio

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2021, 12:48:08 AM »

I'd found this version of Gordon Pym somewhere on the net months ago. Don't remember where or how.
Don't usually care for stories done in this sort of style but gave it a chance and found it conveyed a dreamlike quality.
Lack of detail could hide ignorance of how the ships and buildings looked in the era. Better perhaps than a poorly done attempt at depicting these.
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2021, 01:23:18 AM »


I'd found this version of Gordon Pym somewhere on the net months ago. Don't remember where or how.
Don't usually care for stories done in this sort of style but gave it a chance and found it conveyed a dreamlike quality.
Lack of detail could hide ignorance of how the ships and buildings looked in the era. Better perhaps than a poorly done attempt at depicting these.

True, but then it implies laziness, because research could be done, and photographs of the existing ships from that era, or paintings of the ships could be used as references.  That's what I would do for one of my Donald Duck or Uncle Scrooge, or even a tiny, 6-page Gyro Gearloose story, EVEN when the ship or other object ISN'T very important in the story!  So why is it excusable for a large project like this one?  My guess is that the artist was neither lazy, nor a non-professional.  My guess is that he wanted this story to have a dream feeling, as mentioned above.  It's just not something I like.  As a history buff, I'd like a period piece from 200 years ago to have the feel of those times, which would require detailed backgrounds withaccuate portrayals of how things were then.  That will help make me feel like I'm right there in the action, back in those times.
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2021, 01:31:27 AM »


ROBERT CRUMB drew Donald and Uncle Scrooge??! This I have to see. I did an image search for "Uncle Scrooge by Robert Crumb" and got only pictures of Scrooge or pictures  by Crumb.


No!  He didn't!  But neither did Gahan Wilson draw this Poe story!  I was comparing Gahan Wilson's artwork style used in drawing a Poe story, to Robert Crumb's drawing style used (by Don Rosa - who draws in the '70s US Underground style (which basically emulated Crumb's style)) to draw The Disney Ducks, supposedly in Barks' writing style, types of stories.

Look at Rosa's Uncle Scrooge stories.  They look as if Crumb drew them, moreso than THIS story looks as if it were drawn by Gahan Wilson.
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2021, 02:16:09 AM »

I deliberately included THIS as the last image on the 5th page, as a sort of "cliffhanger".



Yeah. The whole book looked like that when I got it.
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2021, 02:25:20 AM »

As it happens, Gahan Wilson did an ENTIRE BOOK of Poe poems, published by First Comics...



Meanwhile, Maxon Crumb (son of Robert) did the same... but, HIS style, I found SO disturbing, somehow so OFFENSIVE... after struggling with it for a bit, I decided I was NOT going to include HIS illustrations anywhere in my project.

And there's a LOT of WEIRD S*** in my project!

JEFF BONIVERT:


ALBERTO BRECCIA:


FLAVIO COLIN:  (I love this one-- among other things, the book this was in was the ONLY book I managed to buy DIRECT from a store IN BRAZIL.  I suspect the woman who sold it to me got reprimanded after... or fired.)



Oh, by the way, from the blog (referring to Lamotte):
"Now I have to admit, I wasn't crazy about the art style in this book.  But there is a LOT of it.  Which made it, in my eyes, essential."
"Incidentally, the moment I laid eyes on page 10 (the 2nd story page), I instantly fell in love with the delightfully "cartoony" drawing style, and suddenly, couldn't wait to clean up the pages and add COLOR!"




If you haven't guessed, I pretty much picked this specific book because of its "WTF???" aspect.

If you don't like it, don't worry.  As Mr. Floppy once said... "I was just SCREWIN' with ya!"

;D



« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 02:34:18 AM by profh0011 »
ip icon Logged

crashryan

  • VIP & JVJ Project Member
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2021, 02:45:42 AM »

I'd never heard of Maxon Crumb so I googled him. He's Robert's younger brother, not his son. He's quite a piece of work himself, living in filth in a dumpy New York apartment and creating drawings and paintings, mostly commissions. A bio of him on an "Artistic" blog was so depressing I won't bother to link to it. I couldn't find his Poe drawings but I saw enough of his art to understand your revulsion. One odd thing...Maxon looks like the "after" version of a Richard Corben character who was turned into a mummy.
ip icon Logged

The Australian Panther

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2021, 03:56:03 AM »

Not going to comment yet on the selection, but here is a comment on the comments!
On the other selections in the Thread:-
Gino Dauro:- This is the kind of work that doesn't inspire me. The artist has done a workman-like job of illustrating the words or whatever script he has been given, but that is it. He is creative, uses a different perspective in every panel here, but he hasn't yet evolved his own visual style.
Crash wrote,
Quote
Everyone has stylistic preferences, some stronger than others, and I realize that my own preference for "realistic" drawing limits my ability to appreciate unusual art styles. 
 
And fair enough. My own background includes a degree in Visual Arts/Fine Arts. One of my motivations for that was the desire to understand. I would go to galleries and look at [Particularly a lot of 20th centurey art] and think, 'What the )&*&&^ is that about?' Must make sense to somebody, and I wanted to know.
Poe's work clearly inspires artists to interpret it visually, and by no means are all the interpretations by comic book artists. Many have a background in other visual traditions. Prof's work is valuable for the range of work he has collected.
Robb wrote '
Quote
I wouldn't hire Gahan Wilson to draw my favourite classic i9th Century terror/suspense tale

No, but that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't or that Wilson might make the decision to do so entirely on his own. Poe's work fits perfectly with Wilson's visual mindset. Isn't he cancelled now?
Robb wrote,
Quote
  My guess is that the artist was neither lazy, nor a non-professional.  My guess is that he wanted this story to have a dream feeling, as mentioned above.  It's just not something I like. 

I think that's an accurate guess. And if it's made clear that that is what the artist is doing, fair enough.
I recently read a review of a story set in the 18th and 19th century. The reviewer detailed a number of technological anachronisms. The response was, 'well it's SteamPunk, which is fantasy so it doesn't matter.'
Well, if you put your Steampunk story in an alternative universe and say so, fair enough.
What worries me is that we seem to now have a couple of generations that have no real sense of history so can't recognise an anachronism anyway.
Robb wrote
Quote
Robert Crumb's drawing style used (by Don Rosa - who draws in the '70s US Underground style (which basically emulated Crumb's style)) 

Well if you mean that, in the sense that you can argue that say, Don Heck, Gil Kane or John Buscema were influenced by Jack Kirby's drawing style, maybe. Rosa's style is no more like Crumbs than Gil Kanes is to Kirby. both are instantly recognisable. 
But there is no such thing as an underground style.
Victor Moscoso, Spain Rodriguez and Bill Griffith - to name 3, all have totally individualistic styles.
If you want an artist who is very similar to Don Rosa, it is Gilbert Shelton who created the fabulous Furry Freak brothers and whose narrative work is firmly in the tradition of early newspaper 'funnies' like Mutt and Jeff.
Crumb's work is very different to both Rosa and Shelton
I don't necessarily approve of all of the subject matter of many 'Underground' cartoonists, but there is no denying that most of them were and are professional and noteworthy visual artists. I might not approve of Picasso's lifestyle, doesn't stop me admiring his work.
Prof, thanks for that last image on the fifth page, really makes it clear how much effort you put into your work.
Quote
Maxon Crumb (son of Robert) did the same... but, HIS style, I found SO disturbing, somehow so OFFENSIVE... after struggling with it for a bit, I decided I was NOT going to include HIS illustrations anywhere in my project.

Wow! The mind boggles.
Here is Maxon talking with his brother, Robert. Be Warned - unpleasant! Definitely troubled.
One example of his work, techically very proficient, but Subject Matter? Forget it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ildp0VWFLrc
JEFF BONIVERT:
The artist's visual impressions. Need to read the words to understand the visuals, unlike a comic book where they work together. For me the work doesn't draw me in or leave a lasting impression.
ALBERTO BRECCIA:
Better balance between words and visuals, but the visuals are too strong and overwhelm the words.
FLAVIO COLIN
Love this. His design sense, although not his finished work, reminds me of Toth.
The colouring works so well, I have to wonder if he did it himself.
I'll talk about the LaMotte down the track a bit.     

       
           
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 04:10:53 AM by The Australian Panther »
ip icon Logged

profh0011

  • Global Moderator
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2021, 12:42:27 PM »

Eureka Productions' "Graphic Classics" has done a number of Poe-related projects.  Several of them have included some Maxon Crumb one-page illos.  I keep wondering, 'WHY?????"


Gino Dauro did 4 Poe stories-- one full-length and 3 short stories.  I agree, when I looked at the B&W art in italian, it did nothing for me.  His speciality was WESTERNS.  But as I worked on the 4 stories, I came to love his "elegant simplicity".  NO "style"-- that IS his style.  The storytelling is all.  I began to compare him to another "western" artist-- DICK AYERS.  Once I added the color-- and did the translation, his "Rue Morgue" became my FAVORITE version out of dozens I've seen.  Part of this was because, other than the opening sequence, which fleshed it out, movie-style, 75% of the story followed Poe's story, scene-by-scene, inspiring me to make room to include AS MUCH of Poe's original text VERBATIM as I could cram in there.

I've found in my own work, it takes a special skill to make a long, long, long scene of 2 people standing around talk talk talking, look visually interesting...




Prof, thanks for that last image on the fifth page, really makes it clear how much effort you put into your work.

Frustrating truth: even since I ALMOST got evicted from my lifelong home in early 2013, it feels like a "switch" has turned off in my head, and I have not been able (with only a few momentary exceptions) to focus on writing, which is what I love to do the most.

I've been joking a lot in the last few years-- but there is some ironic truth to this-- to help me keep my sanity, I've been pouring everything I have into this POE project.  At least it allows me some kind of creativity.  And sometimes, the worse-looking the pages I'm dealing with, the more work I throw into them.


ALBERTO BRECCIA:
Better balance between words and visuals, but the visuals are too strong and overwhelm the words.


You'd never guess that this guy inspired Jose Gonzales.  Breccia went thru several vastlly-different periods and style.  His "Tell-Tale Heart", I am CONVINCED, was the MAIN inspiratin for Keith Giffen's DAMNABLE "9-panel grid" obsession.  But after that, Breccia got into these INSANE, BIZARRE, surrealistic paintings.  He did 5 whole Poe stories like this, and if I stay at this long enough, I hope to have all of them up on the blog-- IN ENGLISH.

FLAVIO COLIN
Love this. His design sense, although not his finished work, reminds me of Toth.
The colouring works so well, I have to wonder if he did it himself.


I've really become a fan of Flavio Colin,  He, too, went thru at least 3 distinct periods (not unlike Gil Kane).  He started out, I've read, a fan of Frank Robbins (back when Robbins was good).  Then there was this "transitional" stage which even my friend and fellow artist, Toni Rodrigues (who's been invaluable identifying many artists) could not recognize as his work... but I did!  And then there's his "evolved", intensely-"cartoon" style.  I liken it in places to that used by Gamma Productions in Mexico-- the animators who did "ROCKY & BULLWINKLE" and the like.  Imagine that style applied to gothic horror and graphic sex!  (Outragious!)

The pages of the book that story came from were PURE white, so easy to process.  The color was ALL MINE.  That's one of my favorite stories in the entire project.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2021, 12:54:43 PM by profh0011 »
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2021, 05:20:00 PM »



Robb wrote
Quote
Robert Crumb's drawing style used (by Don Rosa - who draws in the '70s US Underground style (which basically emulated Crumb's style)) 

Well if you mean that, in the sense that you can argue that say, Don Heck, Gil Kane or John Buscema were influenced by Jack Kirby's drawing style, maybe. Rosa's style is no more like Crumbs than Gil Kanes is to Kirby. both are instantly recognisable. 
But there is no such thing as an underground style.
Victor Moscoso, Spain Rodriguez and Bill Griffith - to name 3, all have totally individualistic styles.
If you want an artist who is very similar to Don Rosa, it is Gilbert Shelton who created the fabulous Furry Freak brothers and whose narrative work is firmly in the tradition of early newspaper 'funnies' like Mutt and Jeff.
Crumb's work is very different to both Rosa and Shelton
I don't necessarily approve of all of the subject matter of many 'Underground' cartoonists, but there is no denying that most of them were and are professional and noteworthy visual artists. I might not approve of Picasso's lifestyle, doesn't stop me admiring his work.
Prof, thanks for that last image on the fifth page, really makes it clear how much effort you put into your work.

I was NOT trying to denigrate Crumb's art style, or that of the underground artists in general.  It's just that I'm not attracted to it at all, but rather repelled from it, mainly because I find it cluttered.  I saw a similarity among the works of the underground artists whose work I've seen, and so, lumped them together in that regard,  I made no judgement on them as people, or their artwork, based on what I perceived was their lifestyle.  The lumping occurred naturally, in the way that things that are remotely similar, that is not in one's interest enough to look into in detail get lumped together because of that one similar quality, and whose differences can't be seen or appreciated because the non-interested observer never sees them in enough detail to recognise those distinctions.  I disliked that general art style LONG before the 1970s, when I first saw Basil Wolverton's 1940s work at the end of the 1940s.  By the way, I LOVE the artwork in Mutt and Jeff, and The Katzenjammer Kids, and the like, and HATE the style of the drawing of Wolverton (although I can respect it as competent and inspired artwork).  I do agree that Rosa's style is more like Shelton's than Crumb's.  But I was just using Crumb as the "representative" of the US 1970s Underground art movement.  I had guessed that Shelton, and others were inspired by Crumb.  He certainly must have been the most famous of them.  His name was well known to me, while I periodically forgot Shelton's name, and the names of his characters.  I didn't have much exposure, at all to ANY US comic books after about 1963.  So, I lumped together Crumb's, Shelton's and work of the other so-called Underground artists, as our parents' generation of Swing Music fans lumped together all so-cailed Rock & Roll Music, unable to hear the extremely distinct differences between Rockabilly, Jump Blues, Rhythm & Blues up-tempo songs, and poppish, C&W-influenced whitebread uptempo songs, not to mention ballads in those same genres.

It might be more pertinent to say that I wouldn't hire Basil Wolverton to draw Donald Duck.  That doesn't mean that I don't respect him as an artist, or respect the competency and qualities of his workmanship.  It's just a matter of taste.  I don't dislike his work because I make a judgement about his lifestyle.  I have not the slightest idea of what his lifestyle was.  Politically, I am to far to the left of anarchists, let alone Hippies.  I am against all war and bad feeling between people, and have a morbid fear of being judged by others, and found wanting.  So, I am NOT an angry old right-wing curmudgeon who looked down on Hippies, and all they stood for.

I just didn't like seeing the Carl Barks-bred Donald Duck (hero of my youngest years), with whom I grew up, polluted by artists who drew him in another style, in stories written by other writers who changed his character.  I also disliked Disney's Ducks drawn by Riley Thompson, Frank McSavage, Phil De Lara, Al Hubbard(whose non Duckwork I LOVE), and even Tony Strobl's later work, made worse by his inkers.

I disliked Rosa's artwork on The Ducks because his work was cluttered and at the beginning of his career, was amateurish, with stiff figures and no hint of movement.  But it would make me vomit to see Barks' Ducks drawn in Wolverton's style.  There is something grotesque about it.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2021, 03:04:33 AM by Robb_K »
ip icon Logged

Robb_K

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2021, 05:37:18 PM »


Not going to comment yet on the selection, but here is a comment on the comments!
On the other selections in the Thread:-
Gino Dauro:- This is the kind of work that doesn't inspire me. The artist has done a workman-like job of illustrating the words or whatever script he has been given, but that is it. He is creative, uses a different perspective in every panel here, but he hasn't yet evolved his own visual style.
Crash wrote,
Quote
Everyone has stylistic preferences, some stronger than others, and I realize that my own preference for "realistic" drawing limits my ability to appreciate unusual art styles. 
 
And fair enough. My own background includes a degree in Visual Arts/Fine Arts. One of my motivations for that was the desire to understand. I would go to galleries and look at [Particularly a lot of 20th centurey art] and think, 'What the )&*&&^ is that about?' Must make sense to somebody, and I wanted to know.
Poe's work clearly inspires artists to interpret it visually, and by no means are all the interpretations by comic book artists. Many have a background in other visual traditions. Prof's work is valuable for the range of work he has collected.
Robb wrote '
Quote
I wouldn't hire Gahan Wilson to draw my favourite classic i9th Century terror/suspense tale

No, but that doesn't mean someone else wouldn't or that Wilson might make the decision to do so entirely on his own. Poe's work fits perfectly with Wilson's visual mindset. Isn't he cancelled now?
Robb wrote,
Quote
  My guess is that the artist was neither lazy, nor a non-professional.  My guess is that he wanted this story to have a dream feeling, as mentioned above.  It's just not something I like. 

I think that's an accurate guess. And if it's made clear that that is what the artist is doing, fair enough.
I recently read a review of a story set in the 18th and 19th century. The reviewer detailed a number of technological anachronisms. The response was, 'well it's SteamPunk, which is fantasy so it doesn't matter.'
Well, if you put your Steampunk story in an alternative universe and say so, fair enough.
What worries me is that we seem to now have a couple of generations that have no real sense of history so can't recognise an anachronism anyway.
Robb wrote
Quote
Robert Crumb's drawing style used (by Don Rosa - who draws in the '70s US Underground style (which basically emulated Crumb's style)) 

Well if you mean that, in the sense that you can argue that say, Don Heck, Gil Kane or John Buscema were influenced by Jack Kirby's drawing style, maybe. Rosa's style is no more like Crumbs than Gil Kanes is to Kirby. both are instantly recognisable. 
But there is no such thing as an underground style.
Victor Moscoso, Spain Rodriguez and Bill Griffith - to name 3, all have totally individualistic styles.
If you want an artist who is very similar to Don Rosa, it is Gilbert Shelton who created the fabulous Furry Freak brothers and whose narrative work is firmly in the tradition of early newspaper 'funnies' like Mutt and Jeff.
Crumb's work is very different to both Rosa and Shelton
I don't necessarily approve of all of the subject matter of many 'Underground' cartoonists, but there is no denying that most of them were and are professional and noteworthy visual artists. I might not approve of Picasso's lifestyle, doesn't stop me admiring his work.
Prof, thanks for that last image on the fifth page, really makes it clear how much effort you put into your work.
Quote
Maxon Crumb (son of Robert) did the same... but, HIS style, I found SO disturbing, somehow so OFFENSIVE... after struggling with it for a bit, I decided I was NOT going to include HIS illustrations anywhere in my project.

Wow! The mind boggles.
Here is Maxon talking with his brother, Robert. Be Warned - unpleasant! Definitely troubled.
One example of his work, techically very proficient, but Subject Matter? Forget it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ildp0VWFLrc
JEFF BONIVERT:
The artist's visual impressions. Need to read the words to understand the visuals, unlike a comic book where they work together. For me the work doesn't draw me in or leave a lasting impression.
ALBERTO BRECCIA:
Better balance between words and visuals, but the visuals are too strong and overwhelm the words.
FLAVIO COLIN
Love this. His design sense, although not his finished work, reminds me of Toth.
The colouring works so well, I have to wonder if he did it himself.
I'll talk about the LaMotte down the track a bit.


That You-Tube conversation of Robert Crumb with his brother, Maxon, was taken from an excellent documentary film on Robert, revealing his youth, and family relations, also including a visit with his deceased, other brother, Charles, giving insight into the tough conditions that molded Robert and his siblings.  It's interesting to see part of the reason he became the artist he is.
ip icon Logged

The Australian Panther

  • VIP
message icon
Re: Reading Group #244 - LES AVENTURES DE GORDON PYM
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2021, 08:57:25 AM »

Quote
our parents' generation of Swing Music fans lumped together all so-cailed Rock & Roll Music, unable to hear the extremely distinct differences between Rockabilly, Jump Blues, Rhythm & Blues up-tempo songs, and poppish, C&W-influenced whitebread uptempo songs, not to mention ballads in those same genres.


An Apt similie and a prescient comment indeed.

Interestingly, I have always found that musicians are less hidebound and able to open their minds to new things than their fans are.   

Quote
  I disliked that general art style LONG before the 1970s, when I first saw Basil Wolverton's 1940s work at the end of the 1940s.


I don't count myself a fan of Wolverton either, but I do intend to closely peruse the recent collections uploaded here. 

Quote
  That You-Tube conversation of Robert Crumb with his brother, Maxon, was taken from an excellent documentary film on Robert

I will have to see if I can find the whole thing. Sounds worthwhile.
Another aspect of Robert Crumb is his interest in early Americana Jug-band type music, of which he has been a collector and I think a practitioner.
ip icon Logged
Pages: [1] 2
 

Comic Book Plus In-House Image
Mission: Our mission is to present free of charge, and to the widest audience, popular cultural works of the past. These are offered as a contribution to education and lifelong learning. They reflect the attitudes, perspectives, and beliefs of different times. We do not endorse these views, which may contain content offensive to modern users.

Disclaimer: We aim to house only Public Domain content. If you suspect that any of our material may be infringing copyright, please use our contact page to let us know. So we can investigate further. Utilizing our downloadable content, is strictly at your own risk. In no event will we be liable for any loss or damage including without limitation, indirect or consequential loss or damage, or any loss or damage whatsoever arising from loss of data or profits arising out of, or in connection with, the use of this website.