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Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering  (Read 2470 times)

MarkWarner

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Wow, the Reading Group has got to 250 books. It's a big milestone that both the Group, and myself have each lasted so long :)

To celebrate both achievements I have been very kindly asked by Eric (aka The Australian Panther) to choose a title. I really did not think when we started the group, it would (despite the occasional hiatus) clock up 250 titles. At this rate it looks like it has legs to reach 500 and beyond ....

Now for my choice. I have dithered around as I also wanted to use this opportunity to float an idea I have had. I was going to "cunningly" combine the book choice and the announcement.  But at the last minute I have gone with my heart and chosen an old book. I know VERY little about comics, but am drawn (pardon the slight pun) to the early "cruder" art work and story. So Detective Picture Stories 4 published by Centaur can be found at https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=76355. I have had a quick flick through and all looks good. As this is the 250th book I would say, just dig in wherever you want and report back.

Now for something I have been pondering. A while back Jim (aka Narfstar) put up a bunch of Alan Class books. I did a search to find out more about him, and saw this great interview on You Tube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WCZguOmcg

I don't quite know why, but this made more of an impression on me than it probably should. A few nights later I woke up and thought "It would be cool to be a 'real' comic book publisher." Rather than electronic books to actually print one.

This would need a lot of figuring out and a few compromises, but I thought it could be great fun if Comic Book Plus launched a reprint title. Similar idea to Alan Class. Distribution is the one area that could be the trickiest. There are sites which print and deliver on demand, but that then cuts down on choice of format. I'd certainly want this available worldwide to all CB+ members. If a couple of hundred Yankee dollars or so is needed, the site could take the initial hit for that and we'd sell (affordably) to break even. It would all have to be self-funding.

Anyway it is just a germ of an idea. Thoughts anyone? If people think it is a "goer", I'll open a new thread or section as this would be a "bit of a project".

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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2021, 04:21:30 AM »



At the last minute I have gone with my heart and chosen an old book. I know VERY little about comics, but am drawn (pardon the slight pun) to the early "cruder" art work and story. So Detective Picture Stories 4 published by Centaur.

Now for something I have been pondering. A while back Jim (aka Narfstar) put up a bunch of Alan Class books. I did a search to find out more about him, and saw this great interview on You Tube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_WCZguOmcg

I don't quite know why, but this made more of an impression on me than it probably should. A few nights later I woke up and thought "It would be cool to be a 'real' comic book publisher." Rather than electronic books to actually print one.

This would need a lot of figuring out and a few compromises, but I thought it could be great fun if Comic Book Plus launched a reprint title. Similar idea to Alan Class.

Anyway it is just a germ of an idea. Thoughts anyone? If people think it is a "goer", I'll open a new thread or section as this would be a "bit of a project".   


Great idea.  And should be a lot of fun to implement.  But you'll have to be careful to not put out much, if any, money that is not already "guaranteed" to come back in already paid for book subscriptions or orders.  Many of us creators are finding it harder and harder to get paid for writing and drawing stories that go into printed on paper books, while more and more digital comic books are coming out. But actual sales of the digital issues are well below the actual amount of people that have access to reading them. 

But, I imagine the ratio of people who are willing to pay for old fashioned-type comic books to the amount who would buy and read them would be a very high percentage.  So, if you are just aiming to use this project mostly for having fun, and creating a high-class nostalgic calling card for CB+ to be proud of and hang its hat upon, and break even, or make a little profit, you may have a good idea. We certainly have a lot of creative people here on CB+ who are dedicated to discovering and promoting high quality old PD comic books, many of whom might be interested in helping out on such a project. 
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2021, 06:35:47 AM »

Mark said,
Quote
A few nights later I woke up and thought "It would be cool to be a 'real' comic book publisher." Rather than electronic books to actually print one.

This would need a lot of figuring out and a few compromises, but I thought it could be great fun if Comic Book Plus launched a reprint title. 


Well I read Mark's post over breakfast and then went to town to get a few things done. So I have been meditating on the idea for some time.
So, my penny's worth.
I think the idea has merit, but needs careful consideration.   
Robb said,
Quote
But, I imagine the ratio of people who are willing to pay for old fashioned-type comic books to the amount who would buy and read them would be a very high percentage.

Not entirely sure what the point is there.
However,
There is definitely a market for reprints of Golden Age and earlier PD material.
And some have already positioned themselves in this market
I'm Thinking Craig Yoe for one of the most high profile.
As you will see from this list, he has mined a fair chunk of the material that is PD and which can be found on CB+.
https://yoebooks.com/catalog.html 
He is not the only one, there are others who are doing the same thing, but with a far lower profile.
You can find them on Amazon, which doesn't seem to discriminate much in what it distributes.
So the first question is, ' if we publish, what do we publish?'
I have some ideas about that. I don't want to get specific because this is a public forum.
While I am typing there are 17 guests. There are 48,155 members. That's not counting guests.
You can guarantee that if we come up with a good viable idea on the open forum, we will see somebody else do it within days.
So, lets use this space for our general comments on the idea, and if the consensus is to go for it, lets get specific only by PM.
So, do we want to publish? I am in favour, if we can do it, if we can find the right way to do it and if we can find the right material to do it with.
So the questions to ask? [Here's the school teacher]
Do we publish?
Why do we publish?
What should we publish?
How should we publish?

So, thanks Mark. And I will comment on the book down the track a bit. 

Cheers!             
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2021, 10:43:02 AM »

Panther makes some good and important comments, as does Robb.  A while back when you and I were chatting, I mentioned the other companies offering old strips re-packaged and pointed out that it's becoming a busier field.  Robb is correct that with digital and all the sites online where you can download both pd and non pd comics, it's becoming more difficult to make money from comics - either publishers or creators.
Personally, I do not like GA or old British and foreign comics reprinted on glossy paper and I tend to not buy them.  They just don't look right, imo. But newsprint is expensive nowadays even when you can  find someone to do it.  So, for me, I'm not sure if I would buy, say, a physical reprint of The Scarlet Avenger on glossy paper.  I'd much prefer a digital copy.  Also, like some other fans, I try to avoid Amazon.  Yes, I know, cutting off my nose to spite my face. I can't access narf's inDELLible comics for instance.
I would though feel I had to support CB+ and buy the reprints we made, but how much would I enjoy the experience of holding and reading them?
If we go ahead conversations should definitely be by pm. 
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MarkWarner

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2021, 03:34:44 PM »

Well I did not see this as a money making exercise, not at all. On this the value would be the journey. The choice of content, collating, the logistics of getting a copy to everyone etc. But it at the same time it should not be a vanity project.

I was imaging this to be a open topic with a large editorial board (whoever wants to put in their "two cents worth" or whatever currency they use). Get a bit of a conversation going on the forum.

I certainly agree with Paw on one issue. I had a quick look at on demand printing and they were makein a big deal about the quality of the print. I really would not like it on glossy paper etc. Also for price I don't want to guilt people into buying it! I was shooting around the $5 mark. May even be considered a bargain if your name appears in the credits :)
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2021, 03:48:07 PM »

Your Name in Lights!!!!  Great!!!   ;D
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MarkWarner

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2021, 05:26:46 PM »

Yep:)
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2021, 09:13:53 PM »


Mark said,
Quote
A few nights later I woke up and thought "It would be cool to be a 'real' comic book publisher." Rather than electronic books to actually print one.

This would need a lot of figuring out and a few compromises, but I thought it could be great fun if Comic Book Plus launched a reprint title. 


Well I read Mark's post over breakfast and then went to town to get a few things done. So I have been meditating on the idea for some time.
So, my penny's worth.
I think the idea has merit, but needs careful consideration.   
Robb said,
Quote
But, I imagine the ratio of people who are willing to pay for old fashioned-type comic books to the amount who would buy and read them would be a very high percentage.

Not entirely sure what the point is there.
However,
There is definitely a market for reprints of Golden Age and earlier PD material.
And some have already positioned themselves in this market
I'm Thinking Craig Yoe for one of the most high profile.
As you will see from this list, he has mined a fair chunk of the material that is PD and which can be found on CB+.
https://yoebooks.com/catalog.html 
He is not the only one, there are others who are doing the same thing, but with a far lower profile.
You can find them on Amazon, which doesn't seem to discriminate much in what it distributes.
So the first question is, ' if we publish, what do we publish?'
I have some ideas about that. I don't want to get specific because this is a public forum.
While I am typing there are 17 guests. There are 48,155 members. That's not counting guests.
You can guarantee that if we come up with a good viable idea on the open forum, we will see somebody else do it within days.
So, lets use this space for our general comments on the idea, and if the consensus is to go for it, lets get specific only by PM.
So, do we want to publish? I am in favour, if we can do it, if we can find the right way to do it and if we can find the right material to do it with.
So the questions to ask? [Here's the school teacher]
Do we publish?
Why do we publish?
What should we publish?
How should we publish?

So, thanks Mark. And I will comment on the book down the track a bit. 

Cheers!   


Sorry!  My comments were not well stated, and made no sense.  I had thought Mark's plan included newly-created stories, not all reprints.  I see no problem with just reprinting and re-packaging PD material, and not expecting to make a profit-just aiming to break even.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2021, 04:04:24 AM »

Fifty Dollar Ride - As a straight-forward action/adventure it's fine, as long as you don't think too hard about it.

Muss 'Em Up - Will Eisner had so much better work ahead of him. If beating up a crook got him kicked off the force before I have trouble believing he and the captain will keep their jobs after this. I mean Hammer should have just gone full-on Punisher and shot the cop-killing Tony, not arrest him and give him a chance to talk to a lawyer.

Be Popular... Become An Expert Harmonica Player - Because all the ladies love a harmonica player.  ;)

Stand-In Girl - How did Dot get the combination of the safe? Why did she stay at the party after robbing the safe? She knew Mrs. Dexter was going to get her jewels & would probably sound the alarm when she discovered them missing.

Kidnapped - I have read so many variations on the "gambler(s) kidnap sports star" it's practically its own genre. It's an okay, readable example of the type.

Radio Car Patrol - It looks like the start of an exciting story, but no, just an illustration.

Kane & Abel - The artist's habit of drawing lines under characters' eyes is really annoying and makes them look double eyed.

The Case of the Four Haircuts - Interesting, but kind of a disappointing ending as he doesn't really pay for his crimes.

Sapphire Seas - Eh. Kind of hard to judge a snippet of a longer story. The writing started off more tell than show, so it did improve as it went along, but I can't say I really care what happens next.

Enemy Spy - The quality of this story improved when I imagined the Brain being voiced by Maurice LaMarche.  ;)

The Will of Uncle Dan - Ah, rich people, waiting till the last moment to write their wills. *shakes head* And Tom's falling for Mary so quickly was probably a result of the head injury.  ;)

The Teen Age - Eh, okay.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2021, 04:14:49 AM »


But newsprint is expensive nowadays even when you can find someone to do it.

Well, Peter Simetti of Alterna Comics found some printers who worked in newsprint and is able to offer comics at around $2 an issue, so it's possible.
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gregjh

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2021, 09:07:15 AM »


But newsprint is expensive nowadays even when you can  find someone to do it.  So, for me, I'm not sure if I would buy, say, a physical reprint of The Scarlet Avenger on glossy paper.


Surprised to hear this because Alterna Comics are the cheapest brand I know and they use newsprint.

Back to the reading. I chose "Enemy Spy" to read. This was a different experience for me compared to my usual reads on this great site. The story is without colour but somehow this made me appreciate the artist's shading work and style even more. I did not check the publication date but there's something distinctly Victorian about this strip, namely the waistcoats and moustaches, though the artist does have a habit of making characters look like Hitler.

The plot itself was pretty thin. Stop me if you've heard this before: a spy is sent to track a rival spy, follows him, gets caught, is placed in a needlessly convoluted trap mechanism while the enemy graciously explains his evil plan in detail because he "knows" the good guy won't escape the complex and cheesy fate set up for him, the good guy then escapes, catches up with the bad guy and wins.

That's not to say it wasn't fun though, it was. Again, getting back to the Victorian theme, the shop fronts and seaplane also had a distinctly classic look about them which I enjoyed.

One thing about the story puzzled me and really took the edge of my enjoyment: the bizarre arrangement of panels. I know nothing about designing comics but surely if your panels are so confusing that you have to number them so the reader can stop and check where to go next, you are doing something wrong?
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paw broon

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2021, 11:30:42 AM »

Thanks for the info. I'll go find Alterna.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2021, 01:51:43 AM »

I'd never heard of Alterna. I checked out their website. I thought they'd be a comic book printer like Amazon's print service or Ka-Blam. Instead they seem to be a comic book publisher. But they follow the mainstream book publishing model rather than the comic book publishing model. They don't pay a page rate. Creators work on spec. Alterna pays printing and distribution costs and splits the profits with the creators. "Profits" is the keyword. When a book is published the publisher first recoups its production costs from the gross sales, then divides what (if anything) is left over. The terms are good: all IP rights belong to the creators and the split is 80/20 in their favor. However countless published authors  (myself included) can tell you that precious few books reach the break-even point, and even if they do, it's not uncommon to wait forever for the first--and perhaps last--$20 royalty check to roll in.

Most of the Alterna books I looked at were priced low. How many copies must one sell at $1.99 retail to recover production costs?  I'm assuming--and this is only an assumption--that they have access to super-cheap print-on-demand. Perhaps they own their own equipment. Not having to print and stockpile unsold copies would save a lot of upfront cost. Still it sounds like a risky business. I wonder how they deal with typical comics publisher issues. For example, what if the creators bail halfway through their project? That might be why the company prefers complete-in-one-issue stories. As for the creators, they'd better be aware the odds are good they'll be working for free. Has anyone bought/read any Alterna comics? They sure have a lot of titles.
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2021, 03:30:46 AM »

Alterna has been around for a while as an indy publisher, I think one of their early books, The Chair, had a movie made based on it. They've also participated in a few Free Comic Book Day events which is how I've picked up a few of their books. Sadly nothing I've read really grabbed me. When I first heard of them they did a bunch of horror-centric books which isn't my cup of tea.

Of the current batch of books they have Downcast, and I think Mighty Mascots, were originally comics financed through successful Indiegogo campaigns and, I would guess, the Alterna issues are a way to expose their work to a larger audience and if they make a profit, that's a bonus.
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gregjh

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2021, 03:15:39 PM »

I can't comment on the business side of things, but I have enjoyed the Alterna comics I've purchased, particularly the more lighthearted titles and also Scrimshaw, which I highly recommend. I was less eager about the horror titles but that's just a matter of taste. Also, the owner of Alterna, Peter Simiti, is a great guy.
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lyons

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2021, 09:06:11 PM »

Interesting idea, Mark.  Publishing a comic book for CB+ could be a great promotional enterprise for the site. Beyond selling the product to make it financially viable, the book could also be used for gifting and prize rewards for CB+ members and the general public.  It would certainly aid in spreading the knowledge of CB+'s existence in the cyberspace universe. 
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2021, 05:52:22 AM »

Review of Detective Picture Stories 4


Fifty Dollar Ride
A story with decent action, and some relation to events that happened in The real World, but I wonder if The police would ask a kid to risk his life to help them catch a gangland murderer and his accomplices?

Muss -Em Up
You usually cant go wrong with a Will Eisner story.  The art on this one is quite good, as could be expected.  Its a very early story from him, so there is little suspense and virtually no surprises.  Everything is telegraphed.  So, it is not as well told and interesting and entertaining as it could have been with a better story structure and pacing.

Stand-In Girl
The artwork in this story is fairly weak and somewhat amateurish.  The story isnt too believable, because a completely unrelated double for someone might fool close relatives and friends from a distance, but a father and mother should know the difference between their daughter and an imposter from close range.  The spare-lined artwork, with no details makes it easier to have the two women look somewhat alike.  But this plot wouldnt work in real life as it is laid out in this story.

Kidnapped
A typical, too-often told story of the star of the sports team being kidnapped so that his team will lose the big game, and crooked gamblers, who bet on the other team can win a boatload of ill-gotten money.  Of course, the kidnapped athlete frees himself from his captor, helps catch the bad men, and arrives at the stadium in time to turn the expected loss into a victory for his team.  And he is a hero.  The bad men lose their money, and go to jail.  The honest bettors dont lose their money fraudulently.  This is a boring, weak story, with everything in it expected, so there is no suspense, and there are no surprises.  The artwork is fairly weak as well.  So, there isnt a lot to like about this one.

Kane & Abel - Private Detectives
This story starts off with a bang.  The pair of detectives are called to a clients house, and when they arrive, the client lies dead in his comfy chair.  An interesting start.  The maid and butler are questioned.  Abel, Kanes junior partner, is portrayed as a ineffective Buffoon, sort of like Costello to Abbot, rather than the sometimes competent, Watson, to Holmes. The author revealed Kanes figuring out of the case before the ending proves he was correct, so the answer of whodunnit and how it was done was given away a bit early.  So, there was a weak attempt at a joke at the end to try to make up for the lack of any surprise, by Abel trying to take half the credit for solving the case.  But that provides not the slightest bit of consolation for the reader.  The artwork in this story is stylized, not very good, and, thus, not very interesting.

The Case Of The Four Haircuts
This story, by Victor J. Dowling, displays excellent late 19th, early 20th Century engraving style artwork, at a level worthy of some of the very best book illustrators and political cartoonists of that period.  The story is a cute tale about a film-flam man, who gets services for free, through subterfuge. So, the hero, who caught him in his act, decides to give him a taste of his own medicine by giving him more of a haircut than he wanted, to teach him a lesson.  One might say that the storys morals are wrong, because the man doesnt serve any jail time.  But, I dont think that is much of a problem, because he is worse off than when he came to the town, and he will never return there because the business people there are now wise to him and his tricks, and he WOULD land in jail if he tried them there again.

Sapphire Seas - Text Story
This story is a classic murder mystery on shipboard of an ocean liner.  There is a new 2-Page installment in every monthly issue of this book series.  There is good suspense in having the detective held captive in the toilet of a stateroom.  But, I'm not interested enough to read the following few issues to find out what happens.

Enemy Spy
The artwork on the Human figures is quite weak in this story, but that of the airplanes and ships is decent.  This is a typical detective vs. gang of spies tale. It is very straightforward, with no surprises, and the hero doing what heroes do.  The story is very typical, but, due to its short length, is not paced well, and has only a very short period of suspense, and everything is expected. 


The Will Of Uncle Dan
This story has a ridiculous amount of things happen that usually happen over several years, take place in the time span of a couple days, and on seven pages of 3-tier panel rows.  The heros uncle is dying and wants to read his will to his two nephews, one of whom tries to kill the other.  The hero survives the murder attempt, and is nursed back to relative health by a strange woman who finds him.  After a couple days, they are in love, and he plans to return and marry her after racing to his uncles house to keep his cousin from inheriting his uncles complete estate.  Of course, he arrives at the very second his uncle is about to give it all to the would-be murderer.  His pal policeman takes his guilty cousin away, and the uncle gives the hero his blessing.  It is like a fairy tale.  The artwork, by Matt Curzon, is passable, but the Human figures don't move very well.  I am somewhat disappointed, as I like Curzons Dickie Duck comic strip very much.  This story was disappointing, as well, as it is too contrived, not well paced, and too unbelievable.


Teen Age Gags Page
These gags are as dreadfully dull and boring as chartered accountancy is (according to Monty Pythons Flying Circus).  Worst gags I can remember ever reading.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 07:19:17 AM by Robb_K »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2021, 05:35:47 AM »

This thought occurs.
Even tho everything on this site is PD - or at least we do our best to ensure that it is - there are still the scanners to consider. As a matter of courtesy, we should first decide on and agree to - what we would like to publish and why, and how, and then inform the scanners involved to grant their permission.
Also, the comments so far relate to a physically printed book. But, if it's free l believe we should simultaneously - or shortly thereafter - also publish on-line.
Such a book would be good publicity for CB+ and could be made available to other selected online sites to feature and review.  8)
Cheers!           
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2021, 07:10:38 AM »


This thought occurs.
Even tho everything on this site is PD - or at least we do our best to ensure that it is - there are still the scanners to consider. As a matter of courtesy, we should first decide on and agree to - what we would like to publish and why, and how, and then inform the scanners involved to grant their permission.
Also, the comments so far relate to a physically printed book. But, if it's free l believe we should simultaneously - or shortly thereafter - also publish on-line.
Such a book would be good publicity for CB+ and could be made available to other selected online sites to feature and review.  8)
Cheers!           


Yes!  Publishing online would likely get more notice than the paper issue.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2021, 05:21:58 AM »

I almost forgot to review this one. The California heat is getting to me.

First off, good to hear from you, Mark! I was wondering if the rigors of running this place had finally got the best of you. Like you I have a fondness for the earliest comic books. This book is a lot of fun.

The contents page. How I wish comics had kept this up. Credits for every feature. It would have made comics historians' jobs much easier. True, the named creator may have had a scriptwriter and/or assistants, but it would have been better than "by B. Apiary."

Fifty Dollar Ride has plenty of plot holes as well as bullet holes, but it moves fast and the artist seems to be having a good time drawing it. At first I couldn't figure out if the hero is a boy or a short adult. Everyone calls him "kid" so I guess he's a boy. With a driver's license. Maybe rules were looser then. Edwards' cartoony art works for me except that his cars seem like sub-compacts that the characters squeeze themselves into. The first panel on our page 9 threw me. The yellow shapes look like dust or smoke. Apparently they're rocks. Overall, a pleasant ride. Our nameless hero gets a $5000 reward--enough to buy himself a full-sized car!

"Muss 'em Up" resonates unpleasantly with certain modern attitudes: the only effective police are the self-styled vigilantes who break the rules (and the laws) to capture their quarry. As a comic story it's technically the most "modern" in the book. Eisner's drawing is rough but he's already influenced by movie storytelling. The transition from page 12 to page 13, cutting from the crook to the chief's newspaper and intercom, is quite sophisticated for 1937 comics. He uses few captions and keeps the story moving. Nice stuff.

Be an Expert Harmonica Player! This only the beginning! Girls also fell in love with masters of the accordion, the plastic ukulele, the plastic fake flute, the Zon-o-phone, and that contraption that looked exactly like a kazoo. Imagine your popularity if you'd learned to play them all! And you could record your performances with one of the home Recordio gadgets that attached to an ordinary phonograph.

Stand-In Girl is routine stuff. Joseph Buresch's art is barely the other side of the line from amateur. The story is rudimentary. As to Robb's objection, to me the story seems to indicate that the fake debutante stayed clear of her parents and anyone who might see through her act. The father is quite agitated when he rushes up and addresses "Jane." I can accept that he began speaking as he was running up and he just assumed this was the real Jane. He would have realized his mistake from close up but the detective had already spelled it out for him. I notice this story is narrated in the past tense rather than the present. Present-tense narration has always been favored in American comics while British comics prefer the past. I wonder who decided this.

In Kidnapped Joe Campbell's art is decent early-Golden Age stuff. He also paces the story well, at least until the last page and a half where Tom has to win the game for dear old Slover after surviving a kidnapping and a car wreck.

The center spread boasts the best art in the book. An exciting image--and another midget car. I'd love to have seen an entire story drawn in this style.

Kane and Abel isn't very good yet it appeals to me somehow. The artwork is almost proto-ligne claire. Unfortunately the detective does indeed resemble Uncle Adolf. And in panel two on our page 39 looks it like Kane is driving off a cliff. Kane's sidekick Abel is completely extraneous. The butler has more to do than Abel does. I wonder why in a couple of the panels the dialogue balloons have ragged black outlines that extend to the top of the panel. The final pages demonstrate the challenge of comic book whodunnits: explaining the solution to the mystery. Throughout the years writers keep falling back on immense balloons packed with exposition.

In The Case of the Four Haircuts Victor Dowling draws in an early-1900s style that was out of date by 1937. It's nice to look at nevertheless. Darned if the story isn't entertaining as well. I give it top place followed closely by "Muss 'em Up." For those like me who have heard the expression "the old army game" without exactly knowing what it meant, I offer this excerpt from wordorigins.com:

"The old army game is a phrase that has gone through a number of different meanings over the years. It started out as a name for a gambling game?exactly which one varies with the telling?shifted to refer to a sucker?s game?like three-card-monte?and then came to mean any kind of confidence game or deception."

It was also the title of a famous W.C. Fields silent film (with Louise Brooks!) and a wartime Donald Duck cartoon.

Seeing the text story is serialized I skipped it. Nice drawing by "Rod." Is this the same guy who drew the center spread using a different ink style?

Enemy Spy begins with a huge, carefully-drawn logo and it's downhill from there. I guess the story isn't that much worse than a hundred other Golden Age features, but the chaotic panel layout and bad drawing call attention to its weaknesses. Several other features in this issue have unnecessary panel numbers. In this strip, though, you really need them to follow the story. Webster's willy-nilly page layouts not only make the story hard to follow, they leave random dead areas in many panels. Webster has no concept of perspective. He draws machinery better than he draws people. Many figures throw a big shadow on the wall behind them, but Webster draws a white outline separating the figure from the shadow. As a result the figures look like cardboard cutouts. The white line seems to be the thickness of the cardboard.

Finally we get to read The Will of Uncle Dan. Two will stories in one book. Wills were an obsession of detective fiction writers for at least a century. The theme seems finally to have played itself out. This story reads like a five-second synopsis of every will story ever told. It even works in a one-panel romance. Am I the only one who thinks good guy Tommy finishes off his uncle?  The old coot seems reasonably alive when Tommy enters. The nephew's revelation of the murder plot is what triggers Unky's heart attack. At least the old fellow doesn't seem to mind. The artwork is nothing special but it's not awful like in "Enemy Spy." For the second time in the issue, a person who speaks without an ethnic accent says "My frand(s)" for "My friends." I wonder if this was a catchphrase readers would have recognized in 1937.

As Robb pointed out, the stories here aren't very original. At the same time we must remember that not only were comic books fairly new, many of the people writing and drawing them were young and inexperienced. It makes sense that, like most beginners, they imitated the stories in contemporary movies, newspapers, and magazines. Admittedly the quality and originality of most Golden Age comic stories didn't get much better. They did however eventually create their own tropes and cliches and didn't always borrow from other media. Instead they borrowed from themselves.

An entertaining stroll down memory lane, Mark. Thanks for recommending this book.
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Robb_K

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2021, 06:12:46 AM »



Fifty Dollar Ride has plenty of plot holes as well as bullet holes, but it moves fast and the artist seems to be having a good time drawing it. At first I couldn't figure out if the hero is a boy or a short adult. Everyone calls him "kid" so I guess he's a boy. With a driver's license. Maybe rules were looser then. Edwards' cartoony art works for me except that his cars seem like sub-compacts that the characters squeeze themselves into. The first panel on our page 9 threw me. The yellow shapes look like dust or smoke. Apparently they're rocks. Overall, a pleasant ride. Our nameless hero gets a $5000 reward--enough to buy himself a full-sized car!(1)

The center spread boasts the best art in the book. An exciting image--and another midget car. I'd love to have seen an entire story drawn in this style. (2)

Finally we get to read The Will of Uncle Dan. Two will stories in one book. Wills were an obsession of detective fiction writers for at least a century. The theme seems finally to have played itself out. This story reads like a five-second synopsis of every will story ever told. It even works in a one-panel romance. Am I the only one who thinks good guy Tommy finishes off his uncle?  The old coot seems reasonably alive when Tommy enters. The nephew's revelation of the murder plot is what triggers Unky's heart attack. At least the old fellow doesn't seem to mind. The artwork is nothing special but it's not awful like in "Enemy Spy." For the second time in the issue, a person who speaks without an ethnic accent says "My frand(s)" for "My friends." I wonder if this was a catchphrase readers would have recognized in 1937. (3).         


(1)$5,000 US in the 1930s could have bought The Kid a new car, AND a house!

(2) I agree 100%.  When I first saw the centre spread, I thought it was the intro to a story drawn by that good artist.  What a letdown, given that most of the stories in the book were poorly drawn.

(3) If "My Frands" were a catch phrase, even with 'the In Crowd', during the mid-to-late 1930s, - wouldn't we have noticed that in American films of the time?  I wasn't around in the 1930s, but in the 1940s, 'frands' is simply the way a french speaker would pronounce the English word, 'friends".  There was no joke about being a Frenchman, to go along with that for some kind of 'inside joke', as far as I remember.


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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2021, 02:14:07 AM »

So, the Review!
Cover:- That looks like a swipe of Dick Tracy up in the far left corner. If you are doing a book called Detective Picture stories, that's a prettty good subliminal, given how popular Chester Gould's character was at the time. And an early example of incorporating the logo into the cover illustration. Steranko re-introduced that in his work for Marvel. And this one is a clever cover idea.
The frontispiece is Magazine style, at this time they were still transitioning to a generic format for a comic book. 
Fifty Dollar Ride:- Chunky art, but a clear and well told story. I enjoyed it.
Haven't found much info on Ellis Edwards.
Hammer Donovan:- Otherwise known as'Muss em up.'
If Eisner is responsible for the Dialogue, he came a long way since. 
This is fanzine quality stuff. 
Page 1 - Eisner is experimenting with time here but I just find it confusing. Early days for Will.
Eisner has created a larger than life character here, I'm thinking that the pulps were a strong influence on character creation in the comic books.
The climax is disappointing, Donovan is never really in danger. Visually Eisner is experimenting on every page.
Ad:- The covers on those Westerns are very good.
Clarence E Mulford - creator of Hopalong Cassidy - co-incidentally I have just read a Hopalong book.
Stand-In Girl:- This is really only half a story. They should have continued it to the rescue of the kidnapped girl and the recovery of the jewels.
Kidnapped:-
Clear straigh-forward story. Nothing special. clean workable art.
Rodney Thompson illustration.
I think that is this gent.
https://www.davidsongalleries.com/collections/rodney-thomson
Kane & Abel:- 
This was not a good story for a comic book. There weren't enough pages to tell the story visually, so there are too many word balloons.
The Case of the Four Haircuts :-
The best story in the comic. Original and clever and makes you interested to find out the resolution.
Enemy Spy:-
This, in my opinion, is dreadful. Looks and reads like a fan effort. From a fan in primary school.
I wish I had seen this when I was in primary school. I would have realized I could draw and write as well if not better and might have become a comics professional.         
The Will of Uncle Dan:-
Similar reaction.
Observation:- Meets a girl for the first time. Ok, She saved his life. A few hours later - ' Gee, you've been swell Mary! I love you with all my heart!'
The Teenage - Gag page. The gags are pretty generic, but not bad.
Last page - Remington 'Noiseless' Portable typewriter. Do we believe it was really noiseless. I have my doubts.
So here we have an early comic book in which we see a number of creators creating and  learning the craft of making a comic book. It occurs to me that the publishers might have had a financial incentive in using mostly amaters and beginners instead of comic strip professionals. Of which there should have been many. 
And thanks Mark, a good choice for an anniversary pick.       
     
   

« Last Edit: August 07, 2021, 03:13:14 AM by The Australian Panther »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2021, 04:12:39 AM »

Some  reactions on the previous comments.
Scrounge said:-
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Kane & Abel - The artist's habit of drawing lines under characters' eyes is really annoying and makes them look double eyed.

Agreed. Also made them look like cardboard cutouts.
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The Case of the Four Haircuts - Interesting, but kind of a disappointing ending as he doesn't really pay for his crimes. 

I think the idea is, 'Make the punishment fit the crime' and today he could sue the police force for assult.
Robb_K said:-
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' but I wonder if The police would ask a kid to risk his life to help them catch a gangland murderer and his accomplices?'
Well there was a cop - with gun - secreted in the boot. But I think this type of story was done to get the presumed teenage male reader to identify with the protagonist.
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Abel, Kanes junior partner, is portrayed as a ineffective Buffoon, sort of like Costello to Abbot
Exactly! Also, Abel is hardly in the story at all.
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This story, by Victor J. Dowling, displays excellent late 19th, early 20th Century engraving style artwork, at a level worthy of some of the very best book illustrators and political cartoonists of that period. 

And the Top Hat and cane are out of place in a story set in the 1930's. I don't think a con-man would want to draw attention to himself and the Top Hat would have been hard to forget.
crashryan wrote:-
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The contents page. How I wish comics had kept this up. Credits for every feature. It would have made comics historians' jobs much easier.
Interesting thought.
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Edwards' cartoony art works for me except that his cars seem like sub-compacts that the characters squeeze themselves into. 
They look like Donald Duck's cars.
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Seeing the text story is serialized I skipped it. Nice drawing by "Rod." Is this the same guy who drew the center spread using a different ink style?

Yes, this is likely also Rodney Thompson as he specialized apparently in Magazine Illustration.
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Two will stories in one book. 

There are also at least 3 Kidnapping stories in this book.
Robb said:-
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  'frands' is simply the way a french speaker would pronounce the English word, 'friends".

I remember that from TV or Movies, but I think it was supposed to be Spanish/Mexican. 
Anyway a great discussion.
Looking forward to many more.
Cheers!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2021, 10:09:09 PM »


Rodney Thompson illustration.
I think that is this gent.
https://www.davidsongalleries.com/collections/rodney-thomson

Maybe, but the art prints seem to use a different style of signature than the comic book drawing. Not impossible, but odd.

BTW as I was flipping through the pages to get to the centerfold I realized that Eisner appears to have signed every page of Muss 'Em Up, so maybe this was something he created as a possible newspaper strip. Rereading it with that in mind it does seem like every page was intended to work as a standalone part of the overall story so it could work as a daily installment.
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crashryan

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Re: Reading Group #250 Detective Picture Stories 4 + Some Pondering
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2021, 11:45:02 PM »

Panther, you may be right that the etcher is the same Rodney Thomson but I found next to no information on the man. For a moment I thought it might be C. R. Thomson, a pulp illustrator with a style similar to this b&w illo, who was active at the time. However it turns out that was C. Reginald Thomson so I struck him off the list.

As SuperScrounge pointed out, the signature on Thomson's etchings doesn't resemble those on either the b&w illo or the centerspread. However etchers and printmakers have traditionally used their "real" signatures when signing prints even if they used a fancier signature for illustrations. In the 80s I attended a show of Western art, which was booming then. A comics artist who was trying to break into the market (wish I could remember who it was) said his agent told him the first thing he should do was lose the comic-book signature because gallery art buyers would be turned off by it.

In the centerfold the good drawing and the careful parallel-line shading suggest an experienced artist and Thomson had been drawing for Life before 1910. Still, why would he draw a spread for a comic book? I suppose he might have been in need of a few bucks. This was the Depression and I doubt if an artist could live off sales of etchings. It's an interesting question. I'll keep poking around.
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