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Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective

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topic icon Author Topic: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective  (Read 2996 times)

K1ngcat

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Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« on: April 18, 2022, 01:52:45 PM »

Hello again!

After all the discussion about "good girl art" in the last group, I thought it might be appropriate to focus on one of my old favourites which also features a fair amount of feminine pulchritude, courtesy of top illustrator Wally Wood.

I first discovered these characters in an IW reprint when I was about 11, so there may be a certain amount of nostalgia involved on my part, but I still think they look pretty cool today.  Let me know what you think.

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=23694
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=14907

Happy reading!
K1ngcat
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2022, 11:01:12 PM »

Quote
After all the discussion about "good girl art" in the last group, I thought it might be appropriate to focus on one of my old favourites which also features a fair amount of feminine pulchritude, courtesy of top illustrator Wally Wood. 

Wally Wood also came to my mind during that discussion. You and I must be on parallel wavelengths.
Excellent choices. I'm going  to enjoy reading those.
Cheers!
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2022, 02:13:03 AM »

Space Detective #1

Introduction - Sooooooo... Rod and Dot have secret identities as the Avenger and Teena and to hide their identities they... leave their faces completely uncovered???
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhh... someone needs to take a remedial course on Secret Identity 101.

Bandits of the Starways! - Okay story, kinda standard in some ways for this type of story.

The Opium Smugglers of Venus - Man that title at the top of the page is hard to read. Interesting to see the writer used the first story to plant items he would use in the second story. Most writers of this time usually kept all their stories as stand-alones and rarely planted details for later stories.

Trail to the Asteroid Hideout - Ah, yes, the asteroid thicket trope where all the asteroids are grouped together instead of spread out like in reality. I guess the pressure suits Avenger and Teena used must be made of transparent fabric so we can see her exposed midriff (an excuse I used years ago when I had Gertrude & Brunhilda running around in some apparently skimpy space suits. *Ahem*  ;) )

Something for the Kids - Amusing twist. Completely illegal these days, but I'm not sure about the time this was written.

Terror in the Night - How and why did Nulty hide the loot on a houseboat? Did he originally own the boat? Did he pretend to be a handyman to fix the deck and secretly hide the money? Did Nulty not know that boats move, could sink, or catch on fire? There's any number of problems with using a houseboat to hide money on, but the writer probably didn't care cause he figured most readers wouldn't think about it.

Officer Skelly - Eh. When trying to decide if this gag was too long or just long enough I found myself wondering about Joe Penner's comedy style and if it fit into the types of jokes he did (since the guy with a cigar was based on Penner.)

Sun Watch ad - A sun dial watch??? I presume the user lines up the dial with north to read it? (Although I don't think magnetic north would create an accurate reading.)
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2022, 12:05:37 AM »


Space Detective #1

Introduction - Sooooooo... Rod and Dot have secret identities as the Avenger and Teena and to hide their identities they... leave their faces completely uncovered???

Trail to the Asteroid Hideout - I guess the pressure suits Avenger and Teena used must be made of transparent fabric so we can see her exposed midriff .


In response to these comments I can only say, yes the pressure suits must be transparent as we can see Teena's bosom too,  and I'm sure it was safe for her to leave her face completely uncovered as that was no doubt the one area of her anatomy that nobody was paying attention to!  ::). How her boss gets away with it, though, is entirely beyond me.

It's good of you to review the rest of the comic in such detail, I'm so lazy that I never bother to read the text stories or the ads, although I thought the art on the back-up strip was appealing.

Thanks for drawing my attention to the sundial watch. I was very taken by the world's smallest ball-point pen that writes thousands of words. I presume you have to be careful which of those words you choose to write, as I imagine it runs out of ink pretty quick! :D

Looking forward to your comments on the second issue.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2022, 12:08:44 AM by K1ngcat »
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2022, 04:06:45 AM »


How her boss gets away with it, though, is entirely beyond me.


Maybe he hopes everyone will be looking at Teena?  ;)


Thanks for drawing my attention to the sundial watch. I was very taken by the world's smallest ball-point pen that writes thousands of words. I presume you have to be careful which of those words you choose to write, as I imagine it runs out of ink pretty quick! :D

Thousands of words... as long as those words are 1 or 2 letters each.  ;)


Space Detective #2

The Batwomen of Mercury! - Funny how the title characters are basically just minor support to the villain rather than being the focus of the story.

The Metal Murderers of Mars! - So slaves are legal on Saturn and, presumably, Mars???

Slave-Ship of Saturn! - Saturn's 9 moons... what happened to the other 73?  ;) Really weird to see a hero defending slavery. What the hell was the writer thinking?

Mini-Gym ad - Get a job and woman by beating up mouthy underlings! Ooh, ooh, ooh!  ;) Oh, what was acceptable in the past.

The Case of the Sub-Sea Bandits - Ah, the far distant year of 2000, I wonder what things will be like then?  ;) An... interesting glimpse into what they thought the future would be like.
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2022, 05:43:19 AM »

Speaking of slavery in sci fi civilizations. I have been binge watching the Andromeda TV series and I began thinking of how common it is for sci fi cultures to accept the institution of slavery as a given.
From Buck Rodgers and Flash Gordon onwards through Starwars, its a common enough theme.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2022, 12:14:32 AM »



Slave-Ship of Saturn! - Saturn's 9 moons... what happened to the other 73?  ;) Really weird to see a hero defending slavery. What the hell was the writer thinking?



As the Captain points out, slavery is a pretty common topic in sci-fi,  particularly of this period. Planet Comics is full of slavers, and naturally, of very attractive female slaves for the reader's delectation. In The Avenger's defence, he does promise to take the slaves to Earth which doesn't have slavery, and set them free. Hope they don't run into Priti Patel! ;)
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2022, 10:06:04 AM »




As the Captain points out, slavery is a pretty common topic in sci-fi,  particularly of this period. Planet Comics is full of slavers, and naturally, of very attractive female slaves for the reader's delectation. In The Avenger's defence, he does promise to take the slaves to Earth which doesn't have slavery, and set them free. Hope they don't run into Priti Patel! ;)


Something most people don't realize is that slavery was far from overwith in much of the third world in the early 20th century. Mauritania only outlawed slavery in the mid 1960's.
Slavery is still practiced in much of Africa and the Mid East, though kept on the down low.
In today's world the term "Human Trafficking" obscures the fact that its far from over with.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2022, 12:27:10 AM »



Something most people don't realize is that slavery was far from overwith in much of the third world in the early 20th century.
Mauritania only outlawed slavery in the mid 1960's.
Slavery is still practiced in much of Africa and the Mid East, though kept on the down low.
In today's world the term "Human Trafficking" obscures the fact that its far from over with.


It would be nice to think that the people who wrote so many examples of slavery into 50s SF did so because they recognised it as a sign of a society with something rotten at its core. I suspect otherwise though... :(

Meanwhile, getting back to the comics in discussion, any opinions on the artwork? Is it really Orlando/ Wood, or is some of it Wood/Orlando? Or maybe just Wood? And where does the Wood stop and other hands take over?  Interested in your views.
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The Australian Panther

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« Last Edit: April 22, 2022, 12:43:40 AM by The Australian Panther »
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2022, 12:40:42 PM »




It would be nice to think that the people who wrote so many examples of slavery into 50s SF did so because they recognised it as a sign of a society with something rotten at its core. I suspect otherwise though... :(



If you really want to understand the history of slavery in human societies I suggest you study the relevant sections of the Justinian Code and comments of Thomas Aquinas on the subject.
The institution of slavery actually predates any organised religions . In that respect it illustrates how secular laws trumped any other factors.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2022, 11:43:24 PM »


Sid Check?
https://www.lambiek.net/artists/c/check_sid.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sid_Check


Fascinating, I'd never knowingly come across Sid Check before, and there are certainly strong similarities. But sadly the net is very short of examples of Sid's stuff, whereas when I checked out Wood on lambiek they had hundreds of examples of his work, including a panel from Space Detective.

Of course that's not conclusive, as lambiek may base his/their info on the GCD too. But Wood was very good at sexy women, of which there are many, and I'd be pretty certain the machines and spacecraft are Wood's. I can't tell how much outer space imagination Sid Check had, but Wood had it in abundance.

So whadda you think?  ???
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2022, 12:00:35 AM »



If you really want to understand the history of slavery in human societies I suggest you study the relevant sections of the Justinian Code and comments of Thomas Aquinas on the subject.
The institution of slavery actually predates any organised religions . In that respect it illustrates how secular laws trumped any other factors.


I had a look on the net but it was a bit too deep for me. Is there a comic about it? :-\
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2022, 12:17:36 AM »

Quote
I'd never knowingly come across Sid Check before, and there are certainly strong similarities. But sadly the net is very short of examples of Sid's stuff


There is probably more work by Sid Check on CB+ than you are likely to find on the internet, since CB+ is where I first became aware of Sid. And he can do everything that Wally Wood did. Was he swiping? I suspect he may have been deliberately apeing Wally Wood, but if so, he was brilliant at it. 
Don't ask me where to look tho. I don't think there is a list anywhere.
Quote
When Wood and Orlando began their early art collaborations, Sid Check as well as [Harry] Harrison were also fellow members of the same art studio.It isn't surprising that all four of them would soon be working for the same publisher, EC Comics, doing work with remarkably similar styles.

Under those conditions, work often is somewhat collaborative, making identification quite difficult.
Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 23, 2022, 12:24:32 AM by The Australian Panther »
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2022, 12:38:49 AM »



There is probably more work by Sid Check on CB+ than you are likely to find on the internet, since CB+ is where I first became aware of Sid. And he can do everything that Wally Wood did. Was he swiping? I suspect he may have been deliberately apeing Wally Wood, but if so, he was brilliant at it. 

Cheers!


I admit it makes good sense for four artists in the same studio to be able to imitate each others' work accurately enough that they could take over each others'  work assignments at short notice.  But if what you say is true then virtually anything credited to Orlando or Wood ( except maybe deliberately signed work ) could have been done by  Harry Harrison or Sid Check. In which case I can't trust anything the GCD or my instincts tell me.
I which case I could be my own Grandpa.  :-\
It's at times like this when I wish CB+ could feature EC comics. Damn PD.  >:(

Anyone else want to weigh in on this?
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2022, 12:54:52 AM »




If you really want to understand the history of slavery in human societies I suggest you study the relevant sections of the Justinian Code and comments of Thomas Aquinas on the subject.
The institution of slavery actually predates any organised religions . In that respect it illustrates how secular laws trumped any other factors.

No, seriously, I did try to take a look into it, but all I could really pick up was, if you think you're a big brained important smart ass, then it's natural for you to think that less important people are dumber than you and only fit to do your bidding and that's best for everyone.  Or have I over-simplified it?

Or perhaps I'm dumber than you and only fit to do your bidding?   :-\ Please advise.
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2022, 04:43:40 AM »

Quote
In which case I could be my own Grandpa.

yep!
All you Zombies  - By Robert A. Heinlein
Full story here. Masterpiece.
https://gist.github.com/defunkt/759182/ad44c6135d168ae54503a281bb7e1a24c6c2ea0c

Your world will never be the same after reading Heinlein.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: April 24, 2022, 05:04:20 AM by The Australian Panther »
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2022, 03:03:30 PM »



  Or have I over-simplified it?



Totally.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2022, 06:09:26 PM »




  Or have I over-simplified it?

Totally.


Oh well, it was worth a try, Master!  :o
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2022, 12:04:53 AM »


Quote
In which case I could be my own Grandpa.

yep!
All you Zombies  - By Robert A. Heinlein
Full story here. Masterpiece.
https://gist.github.com/defunkt/759182/ad44c6135d168ae54503a281bb7e1a24c6c2ea0c

Your world will never be the same after reading Heinlein.

Cheers!


Thanks for that, Panther.

By a strange coincidence it's also the title of a song by my favourite band - at least I know where they got it from now!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g76EoPgcy9c

I don't know if you'll enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the Heinlein but there's always the chance...

Cheers
K1ngcat
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2022, 01:26:34 AM »

Thanks muchly for that link. I had forgotten that band and that song and never really listened to the lyric.
Very apt for what's on my mind at the moment. .
However I doubt the song has anything at all to do with Heinlein's story. More of a co-incidence .
Listening to it as I type.
Heinlein earlier wrote an earlier story called ' By his bootstraps'. He took it to the next level with 'All you Zombies' The sort of thing that is impossible of course.
Ouroboros
https://symbolsandmeanings.net/ouroboros-snake-eating-its-tail-infinity-symbol-meaning-origin/
or 'what came first, Chicken or egg?'
By his bootstraps, PDF
https://www.scasd.org/cms/lib5/PA01000006/Centricity/Domain/1252/byhisbootstraps.pdf

cheers!
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Captain Audio

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2022, 03:06:45 AM »


Thanks muchly for that link. I had forgotten that band and that song and never really listened to the lyric.
Very apt for what's on my mind at the moment. .
However I doubt the song has anything at all to do with Heinlein's story. More of a co-incidence .
Listening to it as I type.
Heinlein earlier wrote an earlier story called ' By his bootstraps'. He took it to the next level with 'All you Zombies' The sort of thing that is impossible of course.
Ouroboros
https://symbolsandmeanings.net/ouroboros-snake-eating-its-tail-infinity-symbol-meaning-origin/
or 'what came first, Chicken or egg?'
By his bootstraps, PDF
https://www.scasd.org/cms/lib5/PA01000006/Centricity/Domain/1252/byhisbootstraps.pdf

cheers!

Theres a movie version of this Heinlein story, I forget the title , the story is expanded a bit but not a whole lot.

found it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination_(film)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 06:50:21 PM by Captain Audio »
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The Australian Panther

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2022, 03:52:14 AM »

https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=23694
Space Detective 1

The Future, hell, the present, ain't what it used to be!
Cover shows 'The Aristocratic Rod Hathaway.' in an office, smoking a pipe, writing on paper with a pen, as is his secretary, [on her knees at his feet. - well, this is Wally Wood!] and surrounded by hard-cover books.
The 2022 version of this comic would have the roles reversed, no books, no pipe and a wall-size screen. Just sayin'!
Space Detective. [Story #1]
The lettering style and the preponderance of words, give this an EC feel. I think this book came out of the same studio that did a lot of the EC work. Maybe this was planned for EC, but used here. 
This is a confused mish-mash. The set-up is the cliche of the rich aristocrat who is secretly a superhero [The Avenger], here called 'a crime-figher'. And the story title says he is a detective.
Did they have a copyright problem with the other Avenger comic, so called the book, 'Space Detective?'
It's a fun story, great to feast your eyes on, but nothing special.
The villain, of course, is green, has an ugly face and "Spock' ears.
The Opium Smugglers of Venus.
Nice to see the story tie-in with a character met in the first story.
'His clothes were impregnated with lead.' How can he walk?
Oh! it's the same villian. And he gets away again.
Trail to the Asteroid Hideout.
So, we have three stand alone stories which are also chapters of a longer story.
Maag is a busy boy. He's a pirate, a drug smuggler and a bank robber.
The writer? Walter Gibson.
https://www.lybrary.com/walter-gibson-m-718.html
Quote
In 1931 Gibson was approached by the pulp fiction magazine publishers Street and Smith, who wanted a writer to produce a pulp magazine series called "The Shadow", based on the character of a popular "Detective Radio Drama". Gibson delivered under the pen name Maxwell Grant (devised from his friendship with two stage magicians, Max Holden and U. F. Grant). It was such a success that he wrote some 283 shadow novels. Through all this time he maintained an estimated 1 Million words a year annual output.

Don't get the impression that because I look with a critical eye, that I don't like this book. I appreciate the art and craft that went into it. However, I really do get this impresssion that it was an idea for a continuing series that was rejected at some stage,hence only four issues.
If you are reading this and looking for a PD character to revive, look no further.   

Lucky Dale, Girl Detective.
Might have been better to call it, Lucky Dale, Action Girl. She doesn't do much detecting, but she works independently, rescues herself and the captain and finds the 'MacGuffin' with-out any help. A  great female role model.
https://the.hitchcock.zone/wiki/MacGuffin
Quote
In fiction, a "MacGuffin" ? sometimes spelt "McGuffin" or "Macguffin" ? is a plot device in the form of some goal, desired object, or other motivator that the protagonist (and sometimes the antagonist) is willing to do and sacrifice almost anything to pursue, often with little or no narrative explanation as to why it is considered so desirable. A MacGuffin, therefore, functions merely as "a plot element that catches the viewers' attention or drives the plot of a work of fiction". Common examples are money, victory, glory, survival, a source of power, a potential threat, a mysterious but highly desired item or object, or simply something that is entirely unexplained.

And I like Warren Kremer's art. Reminds me a little of Gene Colan here.
The review of the next book down the track a little.
Cheers!
 
 

        r
         
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SuperScrounge

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2022, 09:19:30 PM »

Minor nitpick as it seems to be a common thing for people to do, even I didn't notice it until I read the second issue, but the character's name is actually Hathway, not Hathaway.
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K1ngcat

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Re: Reading Group #269 Rod Hathaway, Space Detective
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2022, 11:00:51 PM »


Minor nitpick as it seems to be a common thing for people to do, even I didn't notice it until I read the second issue, but the character's name is actually Hathway, not Hathaway.


Well spotted SS, I've been misreading it for sixty years! :-[
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