[gregjh]

So this post was inspired by a youtube video that popped up in my recommendations called "Public Domain Justice League"
by a youtuber called Vance Capley.

This video lists Public Domain heroes that would make good substitutes for  Justice League and the youtuber draws them in a new style. Most of his selections are from comics available in this wonderful site so I decided to read through them at a rate of one a week and decide if I feel the selection is the best choice or if I have another character I would prefer to chose.

Let's begin by listing Capley's selections.

His Superman replacement was Power Man from Fight Comics #5
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27916

Batman is covered by Phantom Falcon (who is allowed to keep his pistol)
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=20834
(Vance does a really cool job redesigning this character)


The obvious Wonder Woman cover is Amazona from Mighty Comics
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=30178

Flash steps aside for White Panther
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=14260

Aquaman was a harder person to cover but Vance chose Kinks Mason
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=14107

Green Lantern was the hardest to replace, the final choice was Tiger Man
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=28216


Martian Manhunter (whom I know little of) is covered by two characters combined into one,
Man O' Mars of Fiction House https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=62746  and a cover character from  Planet Comics 72 (https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=18811)

Finally, the name Vance chose for this group was 'Freedom Rangers'. I must confess that just doesn't stick with me, so after I have read through all the stories, I'll think of a name I prefer.

As always, feel free to join me here for a read through or just to read my random thoughts of each story.

[SuperScrounge]

The most obvious Superman replacement would seem to be... the original Captain Marvel. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=73094  For a more (much more) obscure choice I'd go with The Ferret (who was a blatent Superman knock-off with a ferret mask) https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=24368

For Batman I'd go with The Owl https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=78059

Aquaman obviously would be The Shark https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=36326

Original JLA writer Gardner Fox usually focused on Martian Manhunter's vision powers and shapeshifting plus flight, for a shapeshifter I'd go with Mighty Man https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=40581

Not really sure about Wonder Woman, Flash & Green Lantern (there's a number of women heroes & speedsters I'd have to take a second look at for the first two, GL is tougher.)

[The Australian Panther]

The obvious Flash substitute would be the Golden Age 'Quicksilver' from Quality. DC can't use him with the rest of the Quality characters, because Marvel grabbed the name first. So they brought in a Golden Age character called 'Max Mercury' Quicksilver, Mercury. Get it?
However, go back far enough in CB threads and you find an extended discussion on potential JLA or Avengers groups from the golden age. Complete with images. Worth going back and looking for. 2016/17 ?
Here is a more recent one.
https://comicbookplus.com/forum/?topic=19910.0
Here is another thread of interest
https://comicbookplus.com/forum/?topic=16078.0
I keep pointing out, if you [general and plural use of 'you'] are interested in comics, don't just read the comics here, read the threads too. There is a priceless wealth of information here.


Cheers 

[SuperScrounge]

Quicksilver was mentioned as one of his aliases when Max Mercury first appeared, so he's supposed to be the same character.

As for using the name Marvel owns the trademark so DC can't use the Quicksilver name as a book title or advertising or action figures, but inside a book as a character name, not really a problem. DC & Marvel (& other companies) have a lot of characters with the same names. Years ago I started a thread at Nitcentral on it http://nitcentral.philfarrand.com/cgi-bin/discus/board-auth.cgi?lm=1368354176&file=/7449/25292.html

[gregjh]

I keep pointing out, if you [general and plural use of 'you'] are interested in comics, don't just read the comics here, read the threads too. There is a priceless wealth of information here.
Cheers

Yes sir, a whole wealth of information on these forums. One of my favourite things about the reading corner is how knowledgeable some of the posters are about the history of comics. I must confess I was being a little self-indulgent here though, I was setting the thread up for my own opinions and choices on public domain replacements for the big brand names.

[paw broon]

Nothing wrong with a bit of self-indulgence.  So I might as well indulge myself with a suggestion for The  Crime and Alien Repulsor Band, using some British and non-American hero(ines)
For a Superman style character - Ace Hart. https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=72082 (not quite in the same power league but most of the British heroes aren't.)
As an alternative, although more for Captain Marvel, what about Masterman or Thunderbolt Jaxon?
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=2046
https://comicbookplus.com/?cid=2723

Batman - Black Whip.  On this cover and inside
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=31027

Aquaman - Fishboy.  We can't host him here but have alook:-
https://britishcomicart.blogspot.com/search/label/Fishboy?m=0

Wonder Woman - Difficult but what about Vampirene:-
https://comics.bournemouth.ac.uk/story.php?title=Vengeance+Of+Vampirene
Or, Justine:-
https://britishcomicscompilations.wordpress.com/2020/11/18/justice-of-justine/

Green Lantern - Struggling a bit here as there isn't a close British hero. No ring wielders.

Green Arrow - The Black Archer:-
https://britishcomicscompilations.wordpress.com/2020/07/30/black-archer/

Elongated Man - Rubber Man:-
http://www.internationalhero.co.uk/r/rubbman.htm

Martian Manhunter - Radar perhaps?:-
https://www.comics.org/issue/1048239/cover/4/

Other alternatives are available
Good fun this.  Needs some more thinking. 

[gregjh]

British replacements for American heroes? Great question! Time for me to start reading lots more GA comics!

[gregjh]

It's time to start building my public domain justice league and I'm going to start with my favourite, Batman.

So today I read Phantom Falcon (Capley's pick), The Owl (SuperScrounge's pick) and The Black Whip (Paw Broon's pick).

The Phantom Falcon was actually a team of air force pilots and to be honest, I saw very little resemblance to The Batman character. The story itself was standard WW2 fare: The Falcon team outsmart a German airplane factory that had been running in plain sight on a remote British island.

The Owl was far more familiar. Instead of being a businessman like Bruce Wayne, The Owl aka Nick Terry is more like TV detective Columbo, fooling friends and foes alike by playing a sometimes-bumbling detective by day then donning his costume at night (I'm not sure when he gets time to sleep!). In the story I read, The Owl captured a food-hording gang and gathered evidence to see them sent down. I liked the story and the similarities were obvious: The Owl has a loyal butler and at night time he stands atop a building and surveys the crime-ridden city he inhabits. His costume looks dated however and would need a good redesign.

The Black Whip was actually a non-panelled comic (I don't know the technical word but it was mostly text with a large drawing every two pages). It was a talented work of prose. The story immediately set up a sense of inevitability as a crook waited for the arrival of Black Whip despite his best efforts to hide. The Black Whip costume is simple but effective, just a minor redesign would make it suitable for a more modern effect. The story didn't give much away about the back story of Black Whip, however.

I also chased other Batman-esque heroes I found discussed in another article such as The Flaming Avenger and Night Hawk, but to no avail.

So it's verdict time and my Batman substitute will be......The Black Whip. It was a tough call against The Owl, especially with the lack of background on Whip but what swung my decision was the nature of his story: it immediately began building a sense of tension and terror in the villains as a figure of darkness hunted them down and delivered justice in the night. If that isn't Batman-like, I don't know what is. I will take it on myself to re-imagine his costume and backstory.

[paw broon]

gregjh, the Black Whip and other heroes appeared in British story papers way back.  We had a lot of story papers herebut they died out with some of them changing to comic strip weeklies.  Usually, the stories were just that, prose with a couple of accompanying illos.  Some characters were continued into comic strip form probably the most famous being The Black Sapper.
Flaming Avenger here:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=58233
Night Hawk here:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=65878
There are mentions of Winged Justice and The Iron Man somewhere on CB+.  Just need to remember where they were.  Don't hold your breath.

[K1ngcat]

I know I've seen a Winged Justice somewhere, paw, but searches fail to reveal it. Is the Iron Man you're thinking of Hugh Hazard's Iron Man aka Bozo the Robot,  a regular in Smash Comics?

I loved Night Hawk's name, Thurston Kyle. Old heroes used to have such great secret identities like Lamont Cranston, or Peyton Westlake. An old movie actor (Fiend without a Face?) went by the moniker of Kynaston Reeves. Most character names these days are dull by comparison!

[paw broon]

K1ngcat, this Iron Man was a 1st WW (roughly) masked and chain mail suited hero with a pistol and a wolf?  who appeared in early "pulps".  The story I've seen has him pitted against evil Tong like characters, a giant snake and gangsters in London. I think I wrote about him in an issue of Sequential which I will try to dig out.

Gregjh, you're to blame for getting me hooked on Fizzpop and those alternatives to mainstream characters.  It seems everyone is in on the trend now with videos pooping up all over youtube. I watched The Black Terror and The Black Bat last night.   I don't agree with everything he says and there is, I believe, the odd error but good, well researched video articles. And they're fun.

[gregjh]

Today I read the Amazona comic https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=30178  and there's not much to say except that it is indeed a very clear and direct PD alternative to Wonder Woman. The origins story is obviously 'lifted' from the DC character, a lost tribe living isolated in (for this version) Alaska, unaware of their own super strength. Amazona is besotted with an explorer who has lost his way and returns to the US with him. Just as I was thinking the story would head the way of a damsel in distress, Amazona displays her power against a slightly cheeky taxi driver and then a gang of robbers. It's a good story with good artwork and sets up nicely for future tales. Even though I've never been a big Wonder Woman fan, I might just read more of these.

Verdict: Amazona is a shoe-in for our PD Justice League.

[The Australian Panther]

The Amazonia story is so like Wonder Woman that it made me wonder, Did DC ever sue anyone for imitating Wonder Woman and Batman, as they did with Superman?
 

[gregjh]

I've also had time to read Kinks Mason (Capley's choice of Aquaman replacement) and The Shark ( SuperScrounge's suggestion), both comics are linked to above.

Kinks Mason has an interesting mix of Atlantis, ongoing war in an isolated place (similar to the jungle comics) and military-style hero. The color was crisp, the story good. The Shark origin story was very short but I did like the boss of the villains, who was slightly less shallow than many bosses in origins stories. Unlike Kinks, the Shark appears to be a superhuman hero rather than just a peak human, and needs no special equipment to perform his feats. He has a natural communication with sharks rather than being thrust into the middle of an aquatic war.

Verdict: The Shark will be the Aquaman replacement. His role as a defender and unifier of aquatic life, rather than a hero for one side in a war fits the Aquaman role slightly better than Kinks in my opinion, though both heroes could fill the slot adequately and both stories were very enjoyable.

So far then, our team includes The Black Whip, Amazona, and The Shark. Not too shabby.

[paw broon]

K1ngcat and the rest of you, this is Flying Justice - my name as I don't think he's called that in the story.

[gregjh]

So today I decided to select a substitute for Superman in our Public Domain Justice League. It proved to be harder than I expected. Our first candidate for selection was Capley's choice of Power Man (link above). My problem with Power Man was immediate: the comic actually makes a point of saying he is "lighter than air but still vulnerable to gun shots, etc.". This just didn't make me think "Superman" and the storyline I read had much more of a detective feel than a hero feel.

So I moved on to SuperScrounge's suggestion of Captain Marvel (the original) https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=74698. This was the first PD hero I was already familiar with beforehand and as such, I knew the problem: although Captain Marvel fits perfectly into a Justice League group, the fact that we have obvious overlaps with the 'new' CM makes me feel like our Public Domain heroes would be pestered and hounded by Marvel's lawyers, or at least would have to watch their step very carefully. Such harassment would surely hinder their world-saving schedule...

A quick web search suggested American Crusader https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=27660 as another option. This character's powers and attitude appeared more in line but he was also rather shallow and full of the typical Golden Era quips and anti-Nazi lines. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but I really want that otherworldly feel that Superman has in our replacement hero. I have always felt that Superman's alien identity, and the mental and moral struggles he fights with in his mission to protect Earth and its people is integral to his character. Ace Hart (suggested by Paw Broon) was of a very similar vein to American Crusader, though as a fellow Brit I did love his use of Britishisms in his cheeky one-liners. His powers were a close match to Superman, however, but I couldn't quite make the leap of selecting him.

So I decided to cheat a bit (hey, my rabbit hole, my rules!) and I deferred to the Open Source Superhero Universe within the Public Domain Superheroes website (https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Public_Domain_Super_Heroes ). The main distinction between 'open source" and "Public Domain" is slightly nuanced, but a most simple way of thinking about it is that open source means the product (be it a superhero, software app or piece of music) means that the original design can be dissected and (usually) altered, completely legally. Sometimes there are conditions attached to this. Public Domain, as we know, means there is no copyright in effect at the present time. Naturally, these two definitions can have a lot of overlap.

Back to the matter at hand: The Open Source Universe had many suitable heroes for our PDJL and I chose...(drum-roll)...Astro Man .

His full backstory and powers are listed on his page ( https://pdsh.fandom.com/wiki/Astro-Man ) . In short, he is descended from an alien, he has super strength and can emit energy blasts. He cannot fly but can reach incredible running speeds.

The original design is this...


But our version will be older, more experienced in both mind and appearance and slightly stronger built.

And so welcome to the team, Astro Man. Our group is now taking shape but we still need further additions, a nominated leader and co-leader and a team name!

Current roll call: Astro Man, The Black Whip, Amazona, and The Shark

_____________________________________________________________________________________
"The character of Astro-Man is available for use by anyone, with only one condition. This paragraph must be included in any publication involving Astro-Man, in order that others may use this property as they wish. All rights reversed."

[gregjh]

This week I decided to select the replacement for 'The Flash' in our Public Domain Justice League.
Since my keyboard is broken and I have to cut and paste every time I want to use the letter 'c', I will keep this very brief!

Capley's suggestion is 'The White Panther'. This hero is fast and strong but is very much a man of the jungle. He is dedicated to that cause and at least some of his skill lies in stalking and understanding the jungle.

As The Flash was the only candidate without any alternative suggestions from the forum crew here, I made a search for other candidates and found 'Tornado Tom'.
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=35615

Tom is a muscular young American (farm?) boy with high speed and fighting ability. Tom begins discovering his powers by getting involved in brawls and slowly works his way up the chain to FBI status. It must be said however, that Tom needs to become a bit more sophisticated: most of his antics involved throwing himself into the middle of a fight and punching people on the jaw. With the right coaching however, Tom will be able to make an adequate replacement for Flash.
Verdict: Tornado Tom joins our as yet unamed group.

Current roll call: Astro Man, Tornado Tom, The Black Whip, Amazona, and The Shark

[The Australian Panther]

That link goes to the list of CLUE COMICS. not to an individual title, please post a new link so we can have a look at a Tornado Tom story.
cheers!   

[paw broon]

Better late than never.  You now have a speedster but if you decide to go for a Justice League of Substitute Heroes, your speedster could be Streamline:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=64972
Well, the LSH had The Subs, co why not the pd JLA?

[gregjh]

That link goes to the list of CLUE COMICS. not to an individual title, please post a new link so we can have a look at a Tornado Tom story.
cheers!

I believe it should be fixed now https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=35615

[gregjh]

Better late than never.  You now have a speedster but if you decide to go for a Justice League of Substitute Heroes, your speedster could be Streamline:-
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=64972
Well, the LSH had The Subs, co why not the pd JLA?

Alas, and with great irony, he arrives late to the selection trials. He would have fitted very nicely indeed. As you rightly suggest, who is not to say our new team won't need backup and subs in future?

[gregjh]

Today we seek our replacement for Green Lantern in our Public Domain Justice League. With only one candidate being suggested, we need to determine if Tiger Man is a suitable superhero or if we need to turn to search engines and open source heroes once again.
https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=28216

Tiger Man has a fairly typical origins story for its time, a crashed pilot in the jungle, local tribe, confusion, magic, spirits, etc., etc. One nice touch however, unusual for comics of this era perhaps, is the set-up for a further plot line for Tiger Man. As he gains his powers in the Burmese jungle, his family and loved ones engage in political maneuvers to take control of some mining funds and his bride to be. Tiger Man's powers come to light slowly, doctors take note of his new muscle mass and height ("was it something you ate in the jungle?" is my favourite line) and a poison gas attempt fails when Tiger Man discovers he has some form of immunity to it.The story in issue one ends on a cliffhanger as Tiger Man plays along with his would-be assassins (his friends and bride to be, betraying him), pretending the poison gas has worked.

Is Tiger Man our...errr....man? Well unlike Green Lantern, TM's powers are from a spiritual plane, rather than an alien race or universe. They don't give him powers of flight or interstellar travel. However, he does gain a ring that warns him of imminent danger, and he does gain considerable powers that could be very useful fighting crime. In the absence of any competition, it's fair to say Tiger Man is a respectable, though not outstanding, contender.

Verdict: Almost by default, Tiger Man joins our team

Current roll call: Tiger Man, Astro Man, Tornado Tom, The Black Whip, Amazona, and The Shark

Our team is almost done, however I do notice at this stage we lack any ability to cover planetary or interstellar travel. Therefore it is imperative that our final member, the replacement for Martian Manhunter, covers that criteria. This could be a challenge given the scarcity of candidates who fit the MM image. Let's see if we can tick all the boxes next time.

[The Australian Panther]

Tiger Man
there are a few of these.
The '75 Atlas comics had a Tiger-Man character
DC had two.
This guy
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/worlds-finest-comics-119-the-secret-of-tigerman/4000-122928/
Who actually did work with Superman, Batman and Robin and
This guy
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/tiger-man/4005-12703/
Who seems also to have worked with various DC heroes.
Does this disqualify a character called Tigerman from membership in the substitutes?
Oh, And Jerry Siegel and Jack Sparling created Tiger Girl for Gold Key.

Tiger Girl's comic was drawn by Jack Sparling, whose credits include DC Comics' Eclipso. Dell's Naza and the newspaper comic Claire Voyant. The writer was no less a personage than Jerry Siegel

Siegel characterized Tiger Girl as an outspoken feminist when feminism wasn't cool (which it didn't really become until the '70s)

https://www.toonopedia.com/tigrgrl2.htm
cheers!

[The Australian Panther]

Tiger Man
there are a few of these.
The '75 Atlas comics had a Tiger-Man character
DC had two.
This guy
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/worlds-finest-comics-119-the-secret-of-tigerman/4000-122928/
Who actually did work with Superman, Batman and Robin and
This guy
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/tiger-man/4005-12703/
Who seems also to have worked with various DC heroes.
Does this disqualify a character called Tigerman from membership in the substitutes?
Oh, And Jerry Siegel and Jack Sparling created Tiger Girl for Gold Key.

Tiger Girl's comic was drawn by Jack Sparling, whose credits include DC Comics' Eclipso. Dell's Naza and the newspaper comic Claire Voyant. The writer was no less a personage than Jerry Siegel

Siegel characterized Tiger Girl as an outspoken feminist when feminism wasn't cool (which it didn't really become until the '70s)

https://www.toonopedia.com/tigrgrl2.htm
Wait for it! Wait for it! Then there was this guy.
Armless Tiger Man. No seriously!
https://comicvine.gamespot.com/armless-tiger-man/4005-41610/ 
cheers!

[gregjh]

It's Sunday and it's time to choose the final original member of our PDJL. This final choice is not easy, I know little of Martian Manhunter and according to Capley, suitable candidates are hard to find. Capley tackled this problem by combining two heroes but for me, I'd prefer to choose just one hero. Sure, that hero might need an update and a redesign but I'd like the character his or herself to be singular. One forum member suggested an excellent character called Radar but as far as I can tell, that character is not public domain.

With that that approach in mind, I prepared myself for a long trawl through the comics and other resources online but as it happens, I struck gold early. Space Detective (https://comicbookplus.com/?dlid=375500 is a tale of 'Avenger' (perhaps we should save him for a certain other superhero group?) and his sidekick Meena as they hurtle through space, outwitting alien criminals and taking them to justice. SD doesn't have anywhere near the powers that Martian Manhunter has and clearly he is human, not Martian. What makes him a good candidate however is his sheer tenacity and leadership, his confidence, his ability to use highly advanced technology, his teamwork and bravery.

Verdict: Space Detective aka Avenger and his team join the Public Domain Justice League.

That brings selection to a close with our final opening roll call of Space Detective, Tiger Man, Astro Man, Tornado Tom, The Black Whip, Amazona, and The Shark.

Next step is a team name, a leader and an enemy. I have a feeling suitable enemies may also be hard to find since most of these guys were fighting local petty criminals or Nazis. A fearsome, contemporary villain may need a bit of work.

At this point I also want to mention that the person who inspired me to read these comics has passed. I noticed Vince Capley had posted fairly regular videos on public domain superhero equivalents until about a year ago. A little searching on social media confirmed he had passed. He appeared to be no older than me so I don't know what the cause could be but I'm grateful to him for his videos and his contribution to comics.